Hannoverian experts...Drosselklang II?? What lines cross well with a mare by him?

[CrossWinds81]

I am thinking about leasing a jumper broodmare by Drosselklang II. She has an extensive show record and is a very nice type (modern) with excellent conformation. I am most familiar with French and Holsteiner bloodlines and have not ventured much into researching hanoverian jumper bloodlines because to me it seems this breed focused mostly on dressage for a long time and many of their jumping bloodlines were of an older fashioned type...with exception of the E-line. Would you consider an outcross to Holsteiner or French blood? Do the Drosselklang II offspring tend to have high ridability or are they known to be more complicated? I would love to hear any and all info/suggestions for producing a top jumper prospect with this bloodline! Thanks!

[CrossWinds81]

bump

[alexandra]

What is on the bottom line of that mare ???

[Kareen]

I don't think 'nicks' can be identified by just one sire in a horse's pedigree. I can certainly tell you Drosselklang II as a sire has a strong reputation for being tricky to ride (beginning at some being rather difficult on the ground, to start and later on over fences). He also has quite a predominant ability to ruin the walk (not much of a consideration if you are looking to breed jumpers only I guess).
Most of his offspring I've come across was pretty though. Not the babydoll leggy pretty that's in fashion at present but beautiful in a more substantial, classical sence, chiseled cheekbones, good, big intelligent eyes, wide front, athletic, strong build. And they surely tend to be able to jump a house, be smart at the game and have stamina.
As far as breeding advice goes I could only think of trying a rather high-octane but level-headed jumper that will not add to the being-tricky part so that would x-off considerations like Quidam de Revel or Balou lineage. I could think of something with Landadel in it. Those can be hottish too but generally want to work if trained appropriately plus they are mostly very quick on the legs. I second Alexandra's advice to check out the mare's background more thoroughly as the mating would not only have to suit her sire but even more so her female ancestry as far as I can see :) Good luck, I sure think it'll be worth the effort. Drosselklang is one of Hanovers biggest jumper gems and tends to be underrepresented due to his limited number of breedings despite a series of top horses he has produced consistently. They do tend to last forever.

[Donella]

I don't think 'nicks' can be identified by just one sire in a horse's pedigree. I can certainly tell you Drosselklang II as a sire has a strong reputation for being tricky to ride (beginning at some being rather difficult on the ground, to start and later on over fences). He also has quite a predominant ability to ruin the walk (not much of a consideration if you are looking to breed jumpers only I guess).

I have heard of Don Carlos offspring as being "tough horses". I suppose this is what was meant.

[alexandra]

Kareen means tough horses in the sense of very healthy and not lame if they have a tiny scratch.

[CrossWinds81]

ahhh...sorry...I guess I didn't want to jinx anything by posting more info! I looked up her motherline it is from the Piroschka female family. She herself competed at 1.60m in Europe.

She is Drosselklang II/Matrose/Weinerwald/Wendekreis/Gotthard

Her mother's sister by Capitol II has produced some nice horses, so I have considered something with Capitol in the 2nd gen also a few horses from her family are by Calido and they are nice as well. She is 18 and hasn't had a foal in 8 years so I think I may want to use fresh semen this year. Ideas?

[Edgewood]

She is Drosselklang II/Matrose/Weinerwald/Wendekreis/Gotthard



FWIW, here is some info on the damsire Matrose that I researched for my mare. He was highly thought of in his era. This is from my website:
"Matrose, by the thoroughbred Marcio xx, sired 9 approved stallions and 10 Olympic dressage contenders. Matrose excelled in dressage and his offspring were noted for their rideability. During his era, he was ranked 3rd among his age group as a sire of dressage horses. The offspring also displayed good jumping ability. Werner Schockemöhle described Matrose as producing "large-framed riding horses who were rideable and forward going and can even jump impressively. He delivered a lot of high priced Verden Elite auction horses as well" and that "Matrose sons at licensing came very, very close to the perfect and modern Hanoverian breeding goals" (from 1982 2nd edition Die Grossen Hengste Hannovers; Editor Ahnert Verlag). Matrose sired the stallion Matrox, who is the damsire of the elite Westfalen stallion Pablo. Marcio xx (1947) sired 8 state stallions and produced good dressage horses. His get have won over 330,000 DM. Werner Schockemöhle states that "Marcio was a horse that produced a lot of good dressage horses. There has never again been such a Thoroughbred horse with such an ability to produce. He was not too tough, he was finished when he was 18, a little early for a Thoroughbred stallion, but he produced a lot of horses for the big dressage. Nearly every horse he produced was good to ride. Lots of them were fantastic movers. From what I have seen so far of the Laurie's Crusador horses, they haven't had the moving ability of the Marcio horses. Laurie's Crusador has been mated with the top mares and it should be much easier for him to produce good horses than in the time of Marcio. Marcio was often bred to very heavy and common mares." (See Horse Magazine link below). Marcio xx is in the damlines of such famous dressage stallions as Brentano II, Beltain (sire of Bundeschampion Belissimo M), Wolkenstein II, Alabaster, and Donnerwetter (sire of Donnerhall) and in famous jumping horses such as Elute, Landefriese II and Pablo."

Article in which Werner Schockemohle discusses Marcio
http://www.horsemagazine.com/BREEDINGBARN/Great_Breeders/WERNER_SCHOCKEMOHL/werner_schockemohl.htm

If fresh, you may want to consider either Pablo or Landefriese II, both of whom have Matrose in their pedigree (which seems to impart good rideability) and are available fresh (and Edgar is the best!). Matrose seemed to also be a horse that could pass on movement and jump. Good luck!

[alexandra]

With that sort of pedigree and own sucess (can easily be proven by FN record) you should try to put her into the jumper program. This would make the foal more valuable for one or the other person.

Anyways. That pedigree is a real good old hanvoerian jumper pedigree !
Check for something that produces jumpers or was a good jumper himself. If you want to use fresh: As di Villagana, even if doubling on Gotthard: Fürst Gotthard, Landkönig (not Landfriese II)

Certainly not Escudo.

[CrossWinds81]

Thanks for the Info on Marcio xx I love reading info on the stallions and mare lines. I love the idea for As di Villagana! I would not have thought of him, but that could be quite an interesting cross and have just e-mailed the stallion's owner. I have thought about the possibility of using a stallion son of Stakkato as well, one with a motherline known for rideability as well. interestingly enough, Air Jordan Z also has Matrose in his motherline, so possibly an Argentinus son/grandson??

This mare also has the Hanoveriam brand with 3 numbers on the left side of her neck...is this the brand a St.Pr.St would get??

Thanks for the ideas...keep them coming!!! ;):winkgrin:

[alexandra]

No that is the old main mare book brand.

[Dan]

I would think about a Stakkato son like Stalypso.

I remember the first horse that made me go WOW for jumping: Dollar Girl- Dynamo (half brother to Drosselklang) x S line.

Dan

[Hi Jump]

We have two full offspring by Raffaello (Raphael - Foxhunter - Don Juan) out of a Hanoverian mare who is Akzent II - Don Carlos - Der Loewe xx , for the most part this mare was a saint but she could get wound up and when she did, she was hard to console on the ground or under saddle. Bred to Raffaello doubled up this D blood but produced one very relaxed in your pocket type colt and the next is slightly more nervous disposition (seperated from his buddy for example) neither is difficult to work with on the ground and they are yet to be started under saddle. Raffaello himself was given all nines for his character in his 100 day test and is well known showing in public in hunters, jumper and dressage with a calm easy disposition and has never shown under any chemical manipulation whatsoever. In my own experience though, much of the horse you have is a reflection of the environment they are in especially regarding handling. I honestly could not say that the combination of bloodlines was neccessarily the successful ingredient that these colts are so amiable. Certainly the same R line of top, and D line on the bottom produced not only my own approved stallion but the Grand Prix jumping stallion Radiator ridden successfully internationally by Rene Tebel.

Synergy Sporthorses
http://www.synergysporthorses.net