Help needed with rearing horse

[Horsegurlmercury]

Today I got out one of my ottb's to work with for the first time. She was bred last spring, but we didn't find out she was not pregnant until a couple months ago. With all the babies being born, today was the first chance I got to work with her. I planned on taking her to the round pen to look around and trot a little. FYI she is outside 24/7.

So when I took her out of the mare pasture she was perfect. I little looky, but not bad. As we are making our way to the round pen she all of a sudden stops and starts pulling backwards. I have dealt with rearing horses before, and I know you can't fight them, so I followed her with the shank. Once she was under control, I patted her and kept walking toward the round pen.

This little pulling back and rearing episode was repeated several times until she got away from me. She snatched her head back so fast, standing on her hind legs, that she pulled the shank right from my hands. Once she was caught, if you even touched the rope, she would rear. Finally, we tied together a couple lead ropes so we could lead her back to the pasture. However, we decided to put her with the geldings to separate her from the mares.

I called my uncle, whom I got the horse from, and asked him if he could come take a look at her. He informed me that she has been light on the front end since they bought her as a two year old in training. She is now nine and had a foal last year. She is a great mover and very pretty to look at, but I don't know what to do with her.

Is there any way to fix this issue? I want her to be a riding horse, but if I can't get the rear out of her, I will never be able to sell her as one. Sorry for the long post, I just need advice.

[mrsbradbury]

Does she have a foal on the ground now?

Is there a stall you can use while you get her back into work?

The reluctance to go forward and subsequent rear is because she is herd bound; it really has nothing to do with her work ethic at the moment.

If she were at my barn, she would be in the stable for part of the day, and turned out with a set group for the rest of the day. They would all go out together, and all come in together.

She would get led to the round pen, on a lunge line with a chain over her nose, with a buddy led with her by another handler for moral support.

While she is being worked in the round pen, have your handler stand near by with her buddy. Work her for 10 minutes. Take her a buddy home to stalls. Not the field. Do this daily, increase work load, and have buddy stop and stand further away from round pen, until she can work quietly for 30 minutes. Then start working her in tack.

Once you start weaning her from the buddy, she needs to be led with a lunge line with a chain everywhere she goes. You may need to carry a dressage whip. If she lags, encourage her forward, if you need to tap her tummy with the whip while keeping your eyes and focus forward.

You need to lead, lead , lead this mare everywhere. Do not go to the next step until she leads politely and accepts you as the leader. (lunging is an extension of leading).

If she has a foal on the ground, you need to wait until baby is weaned. It will make your life safer.

With patience and solid ground work, you should be able to turn her around. If she above your ability level, then you need to send her to competent trainer able to handle horses that are reluctant to go forward and rear. Then take regular lessons with them until you feel comfortable enough to bring her home.

[Kenike]

Do not lead her without a chain.

I think the last post gave some good advice, but the buddy will have to disappear pretty quick. At least IMHO

[shawneeAcres]

You have your work cut out for you to take a 9 yr old OTTB that has been being a broodmare to a rideable/saleable horse. First she needs to get into a "program" meaning, she needs to ahve a routine where EVERYDAY she comes into the barn, gets fed, hangs out etc. and then begin adding in work sessions, first round pen work, then under saddle work. But these mares have been living a life in a herd sitation and that is the biggest problem youa re having. A week or so of the above routine will make a lot of changes in her. I do a LOT of round pen training and if you ever need some help contact me. I can show you some things to work on to get her mind engaged in the work and off the other distractions!!

[fair judy]

if your uncle says that this behavior was present as a two year old in training, i would say breed her back next season and be done with it. you state that she had a foal last season? what was her job before then? that is a long interval.

if not, the advice above is good. never lead her without a long line, and use the line over the crown , not over her nose. gloves always with no exceptions.

she will probably test you at every turn. if you want to sell her, you need to have a team of people leading her because once you get her to listen to You, it is likely that she will test the next new handler.

is she chestnut? i don't really believe that old stuff, but if she Is a chestnut and ever makes a move to even appear to be light in the front no one is going to buy her.

[magicteetango]

She lands, back her up, make her do something. Do not just allow her to rear then go home with friends. Don't care if it takes you 2 hours to get to that round pen, get her there, and make her realize she's not getting out of this.

My mare has a tendancy to light in the front as well, she's greatly improved although she never sat for seven years, more like 3 before I finally purchased her. Even at 5, she'd only do it if she felt trapped.

A lot of the time, I would ignore it, but my mare's the eager to please more soft personality. I had a gelding I'd purchased who really did rear, he was more of a very calm, non sensitive personality. I was much more assertive towards him then her.

But don't let her get away with this. Even if you never ride her, even broodmares need to be handled and led.

[Aliascml]

Ditto on the chain and lots of patience

[SEPowell]

If she still rears after you've given her a chance to show a better side through consistent round ring and longing work, you can try leading her to a nice soft spongie area and flip her when she rears. I've only done this about three times and twice it solved the problem. The third horse I did this with stopped rearing for a while but eventually reared and flipped while I was riding her. I finally stopped riding her because she was going to kill me. Someone else had already bred her and later I learned that her foal became a flipper too and got ruled off the track. So you might want to think twice about breeding this mare.

[RumoursFollow]

If you can afford it, let someone who is experienced with rearers fix it.

I have fixed several.. 3 in the last 6 months, probably 7-8 more lifetime. I don't like them, think they are terribly dangerous, but do believe they can be turned around most of the time if you do it right.

I've only sent one back and said I couldn't help it. It was a mare, a flipper, and I gave up after the 15th or so time it flipped over with me on its back. (And this was totally unprovoked and completely without a "I'm a very angry horse right now warning.

Just FYI, I am quite stern and insistent with them, but am not abusive.

I would be happy to talk with you by PM if you want more info about what I do, but again, my recommendation is that you let someone else fix her before she really hurts you.

[UNCeventer]

Curious, how do you go about flipping one over- on purpose and/or while leading them on the ground?

I will ride buckers, but I do not do rearers. I think there is something wrong in their wiring, esp when they go up for no reason- so what do you do, what are your tactics?

Im curious.

[yellowbritches]

I have zero tolerance for a horse that uses rearing to get out of something. A horse that has been "light in the front end" (what a charming way of putting it...:rolleyes:) since it was and is now 9 is not worth fixing in my book. Throw her back out in the field before she hurts someone.

[J. Turner]

Try a rope halter. My older OTTB is/was a terrible loader and also has issue with x-ties.

Loading he would go up ramp or step up with two feet, but when his head was in, he'd go flying backwards. He would get to the point that he would rear and even flip over. In the x-ties, he would panic if someone pulled on the tie too hard. Then when he realized he could break them he would systematically lean against them or sit down to break them.

I had an old cowboy come work with him. He put a rope halter on. He makes them himself and they are a little bit thinner than the ones you generally can buy in the stores. He told me some number about pounds per square inch that a 1" leather or nylon crownpiece exerts vs. a 1/4 or 3/8" round rope. Essentially, he said the difference was that he could resist a horse (to a certain degree in certain situations) with a rope halter, but not in a regular one.

Nigel will not pull back in x-ties with a rope halter and he will load quite easily with a rope halter. He knows the difference. I gave him away to a family who shows him lightly and can afford the maintenance he needs as an older horse and with explicit instructions to use a rope halter to load (and ramp if possible). They used a regular halter. A fight, flip ensued. I was at the show and offered to put him on the trailer to go home. Rope halter, went on in 5 minutes no fight. This horse does not like a chain over his nose, for whatever reason.

A lot of working with a rope halter and a rearer/pullbacker is knowing the release (reward). I totally agree about carrying a dressage whip or a buggy whip. She needs to know to go forward. Nigel knows the second he shifts his weight backwards he gets a swift pop on the butt. It's all about timing. Don't even let her get a chance to get those feet off the ground. Make sure you are in tune with her. You have to sense it from her body language, her eyes. If you've ever watched the Dog Whisperer/Cesar Millan (and yes, he has his detractors), he tries corrects an aggressive dog before he gets into what he calls "red zone" (attack). He looks for body language (tail, eyes, lip), and attempts to send him out of that state of mind before it escalates. Use that same philospohy with the mare. Be a couple steps ahead of her. Don't even wait before she stops. If she slows down, hesitates, her attention obviously comes off you, correct her appropriately. Try not to let it get to the rear. Of course, it will get there, but the more times you can catch it before, the better luck you will have extinguishing the behavior.

[gasrgoose]

if your uncle says that this behavior was present as a two year old in training, i would say breed her back next season and be done with it. you state that she had a foal last season?

Why would you advise breeding a horse that has a behavior problem? First, they need to know if it can be corrected. If it a horse can't be trained, it doesn't need to be bred to produce another horses that can't be trained.:no: Who is going to buy a foal from a horse that can't be walked on a lead rope? We don't need more poor quality horses. We should be breeding successful horses to other successful horses......Stepping off the soap box:)

[Horsegurlmercury]

Thank yall so much for the advice. She was a fantastic race horse and has great bloodlines. At the track, we could handle rearers as long as they were good runners. She raced from 3 to 5, had a couple months off, then was bred as a 6 year old and then again as an 7 year old (I had to check my records, and realized she had two foals).

After discussing with my dad, we have decided not to deal with her as a riding horse. She is fine living out 24/7 as a broodmare and has produced two very nice foals (neither have shown any signs of being light on the front end). I can deal with the rearing as a broodmare, but not as a riding horse, so that's not a problem. I really appreciate all the suggestions!

[UNCeventer]

I still think you should make sure that she is ok leading, because when she has a baby and is difficult to lead, you dont want the baby picking up on that.

Probably a good decision not to try to ride her.

[fair judy]

rearing is not a genetic trait, nor is it contagious.

good decision to return her to a job she likes.:)

[UNCeventer]

can it not be a learned habit?

[SEPowell]

rearing is not a genetic trait, nor is it contagious.

We have to agree to disagree on this one :) My understanding of behavior is that it's the result of both genetic and environmental components. That's why it's so easy to see behavioral tendencies in specific bloodlines and that's why many breeders stallion shop for specific dispositions (or behavioral qualities).

UNCeventer, when I pulled horses over I did it by putting them in long lines and when they reared I pulled one rein and threw them off balance causing them to fall. It's a really aggressive training strategy that I don't like to use unless all else fails. I haven't done it for years and really want to avoid horses that need it.

There may be better ways to achieve the same results. I have a friend who lays horses down. I've never seen him do it but have listened to his description of it. It sounds much safer for the horse than what I've done and if I ever run into that type of problem again I'd go to him for help.

[UNCeventer]

We have to agree to disagree on this one :) My understanding of behavior is that it's the result of both genetic and environmental components. That's why it's so easy to see behavioral tendencies in specific bloodlines and that's why many breeders stallion shop for specific dispositions (or behavioral qualities).

UNCeventer, when I pulled horses over I did it by putting them in long lines and when they reared I pulled one rein and threw them off balance causing them to fall. It's a really aggressive training strategy that I don't like to use unless all else fails. I haven't done it for years and really want to avoid horses that need it.

There may be better ways to achieve the same results. I have a friend who lays horses down. I've never seen him do it but have listened to his description of it. It sounds much safer for the horse than what I've done and if I ever run into that type of problem again I'd go to him for help.

I 100% AGREE WITH YOU ON ALL POINTS HERE. Very interesting about the long lines. I have known horses who will not do it on the lunge, but will do it only when you are on them, which is why I was curious as to how you did that if you were riding them. (Obv, that would be quite a challenge, hehe).

[sandstar]

Why would you advise breeding a horse that has a behavior problem? First, they need to know if it can be corrected. If it a horse can't be trained, it doesn't need to be bred to produce another horses that can't be trained.:no: Who is going to buy a foal from a horse that can't be walked on a lead rope? We don't need more poor quality horses. We should be breeding successful horses to other successful horses......Stepping off the soap box:)

AMEN!

[Go Fish]

Use a chain...over the nose or under the chin is up to you. Common sense tells you that over the nose would be better on a rearer, but it's hard to get a horse to come forward with a chain over the nose, so I usually put it under the chin for a horse that rears.

Get her off balance...no need to flip her over. You have to be quick...when she starts to get light, you step to the right or left and pull/jerk her head to the side. Cluck and move forward. Circle, if necessary. If she gets light again, pull and circle. Don't ever jerk the horse backwards. You are dealing with a forward issue, so backwards is not an option. If you don't have a lot of strength and stamina, you may be cooked.

I've also been known to hook them up to the hot walker and let that drag them around for awhile!

[leelee]

Does she have a foal on the ground now?


The reluctance to go forward and subsequent rear is because she is herd bound; it really has nothing to do with her work ethic at the moment.

If she were at my barn, she would be in the stable for part of the day, and turned out with a set group for the rest of the day. They would all go out together, and all come in together.




Agreed. She's herd bound. Some horses can be outside 24/7 and still be rideable, others cannot. It is just a different personality. I would separate her paddock or, at least, keep her inside for 1/2 the day. Put her out alone if she can handle it. If not, give her a friend to go out with, but I would also change friends once in a while so that she doesn't latch on to one horse.

She has no job to do at the moment. Without some sort of job, and all day - all night turnout then, yes, they will get very herd bound.

[Nikki17]

Why would you advise breeding a horse that has a behavior problem? First, they need to know if it can be corrected. If it a horse can't be trained, it doesn't need to be bred to produce another horses that can't be trained.:no: Who is going to buy a foal from a horse that can't be walked on a lead rope? We don't need more poor quality horses. We should be breeding successful horses to other successful horses......Stepping off the soap box:)

Thank you! I was going to say the same thing. Why would you EVER breed her? This is the hunter/jumper forum, for a moment I thought I was accidently in the racing forum. This mare would not produce a hunter/jumper. Please don't breed her again.

[Go Fish]

Thank you! I was going to say the same thing. Why would you EVER breed her? This is the hunter/jumper forum, for a moment I thought I was accidently in the racing forum. This mare would not produce a hunter/jumper. Please don't breed her again.

Really? I've never met the perfect horse. All mine have had a "behavior" problem at some point in their lives.

In my experience, most "behavior" problems in horses have been man-made.

[shawneeAcres]

Thank you! I was going to say the same thing. Why would you EVER breed her? This is the hunter/jumper forum, for a moment I thought I was accidently in the racing forum. This mare would not produce a hunter/jumper. Please don't breed her again.

Ya'll need to get a grip! If I am not mistaken, the family breeds race horses for the track and this mare was on the track at one time. She was retired to raise RACEHORSES which frankly race trainers don't CARE if the horse rears as long as it runs! They aren't breeding hunter/jumper from this horse I do not believe. I think the idea was to see if she could be retrained as a hunter, rather than continue as a broodmare, giving her a job. She may very likely have soem INCREDIBLE race bloodlines (merely speculation on my part, but knowing this family I doubt they are breeding "losers"!) and may have had a successful race career. The OP rides and shows hunters in our area. SO PLEASE get off her back! Off my soapbox (for now!)

[drawreins]

Sounds as if she's acting herd bound. Putting her in a stall, with a structured schedule should help this mare.

[JumpWithPanache]

My only advice, wear a helmet ANY TIME you lead this horse. The one time I took mine off while working with a slightly "light in the front end" 2yo was the day he went up and clonked me on the back of my head. Fortunately he was light enought that the damage was only 7 stitches and a bald patch. With a full grown horse though you could be looking at some serious head trauma. I will never again lead a rearer without a chain shank available, heavy leather gloves, and a helmet on my head.

[Horsegurlmercury]

Ya'll need to get a grip! If I am not mistaken, the family breeds race horses for the track and this mare was on the track at one time. She was retired to raise RACEHORSES which frankly race trainers don't CARE if the horse rears as long as it runs! They aren't breeding hunter/jumper from this horse I do not believe. I think the idea was to see if she could be retrained as a hunter, rather than continue as a broodmare, giving her a job. She may very likely have soem INCREDIBLE race bloodlines (merely speculation on my part, but knowing this family I doubt they are breeding "losers"!) and may have had a successful race career. The OP rides and shows hunters in our area. SO PLEASE get off her back! Off my soapbox (for now!)

THANK YOU!!! I just wanted advice as to whether it would be an easy fix. Since, obviously she was happier as a broodmare and both of her babies show great potential as RACEHORSES, we are going to sell her as a broodmare. I really appreciate all the advice!

And, yes I use a chain with her and wear a helmet :)