Best grid?

[playinforkeeps8]

I'm leasing a TB jumper who is amazing. He will jump anything from any distance, but instead of putting his the top of his arc at the top of the jump he puts it a couple feet past the jump. It isn't too big of a deal but in combinations it starts to be a problem. Recently my trainer has had me jumping an oxer with a ground pole on the other side which is helping. What other exercises or grids will help with this problem? Is any specific type of grid the best or will anyone work well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44dzDl1ti2k&feature=channel_page

^video of Bailey and I...you can see that we a problem in the combination =)

[Bobthehorse]

I can see that he is jumping rather flat, and traveling hollow, and Im guessing some of that has to do with your hands. He is fighting you, you are holding, and not giving him much release over fences, and likely not softening at the base of the fence. If you dont soften at the base and in the air, the horse isnt able to round properly, and jumps flat like that.

I suggest lots of flatwork, he should be softer and more adjustable and bending through the turns. It will make him more rideable to the fences, and thus easier for you to soften at the base and for him to round over the fences properly. If he travels rounder all the time, he will come to fences in a better canter, and will be able to rock back more easily, making him jump rounder as well.

I think this is more of an issue with flatwork than it is a "the horse jumps like this" issue.

[playinforkeeps8]

He gets really strong which is why I'm holding him, when I release he explodes on the other side of the jump and lands even further into the line on the other side. I would switch to something stronger than a rubber snaffle, maybe a twisted, so I could rebalance him quicker. However, with anything more than rubber he starts to canter more up and down instead of forward and his head comes up even higher (which I know, doesn't seem possible :D).

The way he is jumping in this video is actually a huge improvement from a couple months ago. I have been doing a lot of flatwork with him, getting him round and riding him into my hand, and obviously that has helped a lot. I really work him on the flat four or five days a week and then jump once a week. I understand that flat work will help to fix this problem. I was just wondering what types of grids would help too.

[Anyplace Farm]

First off, I hope you subscribe to Practical Horseman, if not, do. There is always great information in there, some of which I'll try to share. To get 'back articles' online, go to Equisearch.com and run a search for 'rushing fences' and 'rusher'. Some articles will come up. I just did it and there are a few. One by Patti Stovel and I can't remember the other. But I don't think in your case that the one by Patti will help just yet.

One exercise I read, and I think this might have come from Holly Hugo-Vidal's book, Building Confidence Over Fences (get this book - you will not be sorry), which I have found excerpts are also available on EquiSearch because her stuff was printed in PH is this:

I'm only going to be able to generalize because this'll be too long otherwise, so, search for it or get the book. But she had you set up a vertical and then one right next to but a few strides past (I believe) that one. As you went to the jump, as the horse started to rush, you would slowly bypass that jump and jump the one past it. Point being, it made the horse think. It's been my experience that if you do stuff to make the horse wonder what you might be up to next, they back off the jumps.

This topic has come up before and a few of us were in the same camp on this -- set up a smaller jump -- maybe 2'3" or 2'6" and if the horse has rushed, as soon as he is in the air, begin to turn, land and continue turning, alternating directions that you turn. Of course, wear leg protection for the horse for this. I swear, it only takes a few times and they realize that hauling ass to the jump ends up being a lot more work but if they go quietly, they are allowed to canter away on a straight line, which is easiest. Horses like what is easiest. And that exercise backs them off the jump because this time, going to the jump, they are trying to anticipate which direction you might be turning them.

Lastly, yes, a grid that allows you to simply toss the reins away allows the jumps to back the horse off is good. But I still don't think it solves their approach to the fence. So, I feel like that has to be addressed first. The best way to address that is over small jumps. You can do it on a circle.

For dimensions of building the jumps on a circle and ideas for grids mentioned above, get Anne Kursinski's Jumping Clinic book (a must have as well) and 101 Jumping Exercises by Linda Allen. Linda is no joke, she's a course designer for some of the most prestigious grands prix in the world and was a top jumper rider herself.

Good luck and never rely on just one person (meaning your trainer) to help you reach your goals. Do your own research (meaning get those books and the PH mag) since you are soley in charge of your destiny.

[Anyplace Farm]

OK, I admit to just now watching your video. A few observations - your stirrup is about two holes too long. It is causing you to push off your toe in the air which sends your seat pretty far back over the jump, then, on the other side of the jump, you are coming up too quickly, thus, the saddle is smacking you in the butt which means your hrose is getting smacked in the back. In that very first line, it appears that he scoots away like he got 'zinged'.

Shortening your stirrup will help you have a much stronger base and better balance, although, I gotta say, you are pretty well balanced.

Very cool horse, I wouldn't trade him for the world if I were you (not like you said you were). He's super game and interested in his job.

I think you are just coming up early because you are used to him scooting off. Try to come up slower and yes, all your jumps at home should have a pole on the other side about 9' on the landing. Seems tight, yes, but will teach him to back off. But definitely spend some time fixing his approach first.

I dig him - you guys look to be a pretty cool team.

[vbunny]

Love him. Try exercises like a 2 to a 2 a or a 1 to a 1, with low oxers (as in really low and wide and try to get him to do them really slow and soft. Those should help a lot.

[playinforkeeps8]

Anyplace Farm- thank you so much for all your suggestions. He loves to jump which makes him get a little excited so I think the idea of having two jumps close to each other and then switching between them is a great idea! I've heard of that excersice but I never even thought about using it with Bailey. Thank you for the critique-I will definitely shorten my stirrups.

vbunny- i'll definitely work on some one strides and two stride combinations. do you think it would be a good idea to set them a little bit short so he has to back off and get a little deeper to the second jump which will make him rock back more...i think i just answered my own question. :lol:

[STNS]

I did a fantastic grid yesterday in my lesson - it was a bounce, to a 45', to another bounce. Could be jumped both ways. I really liked it, as it really rocked the mare back when she had to go through the second bounce.

[Bobthehorse]

Try setting up 2 bounces to a one stride to 2 more bounces, and then go through a couple times with no reins. My horse is quite strong, and when I got him had such bad flatwork and just charged every fence. We did lots of long grids full of bounces with no reins, so he learned that only he could help himself.

It also might be worth playing with bits, because you cant be soft if he wont let you, and likewise he cant jump rounder if you cant be soft, its a vicious cycle. Try something that rolls, a cherry roller maybe. Or a combination bit with a nosepiece (like the Myler one that looks like a 2 ring), or a Kimberwicke might help keep him from pulling his head up in the air. It may only be temporary, but when to comes to jumping a different bit can give you better control with less hand, and he may learn that he has to be more adjustable and softer when he gets to jump.

[Linny]

Jumping small fences with a rail on the ground after the jump gets them rounder and looking down in the air. I'm not certain the exactly placement, he needs to be able to land easily between the jump and the rail, then take his frst stride over the rail. 101 Jumping Exercises probably has the proper placement.
The rail has the effect of backing him off in a way that doesn't involved pulling on him. Once you don't feel you have to "hold" him in the air, you can release more and still be able to get him back after the jumps.
How does he do maintaining balance on the flat? Can he do small circles etc without getting inverted? Many TB's that raced never learned to balance at slow speeds. TB's are like bicycles. They are better balanced the faster they go. It's how they are trained initially. Teaching them to balance and use the topline is part of the initial retraining that often gets overlooked once it's discovered the horse loves to jump. Developing the topline is key to a nice jump.

On a happy note, I love your horse. His attitude looks great, he's shiny clean and seems to love his job.

[Maya01]

I would first of all try a full cheek (french link or lozenge) if you don't see much of a difference then go for a twisted full cheek. Rubber is obviously way too soft for him and he doens't look like he needs anything to drastic.

Last year, when I went to an Ian Miller clinic, he showed us a trot grid that goes like this: 4 Poles on approach (spaced 4'), 9' to an X, 18' to an oxer, 11' to a vertical, 11' to another vertical, 30' to an oxer and playing around with striding on the latter.

He also showed us a canter grid: a single pole 9' in front of an X, 12' to an X, 18' to an oxer, 21' to an oxer.

Another thing you can work on is going over double cavalettis (2-4 strides in between is good) and allowing the horse to figure it out for himself with minimal rider interference. Do it until he is bored of it :D

And remember that you have to release. It doesn't matter if he races, you have to release or you are just going to get a flat, useless stride and a lot of jumping faults.

I hope this helps ;)

[PNWjumper]

I have a TB gelding that does exactly the same thing. He powers off of the ground and lands several feet further out than a normal horse. I did a clinic with Greg Best this weekend and the exercise that he said would help us the most was a really simple one:

pole - 56' to a vertical - 56' to another pole

We had to do 5 strides from pole to vertical and 5 strides from the vertical to the pole. It was harder than I imagined it would be considering the fact that I do a lot of gymnastics and flatwork to maintain an adjustable horse.

He suggested that at home I ought to start shortening the distance between the poles and the vertical (to 4 strides and then 3 strides) and that eventually my horse will start altering the arc of his jump to fit in the proper number of strides.

[playinforkeeps8]

Thanks for all the suggestions! :)