Sour to the leg

[weasel1088]

I am having problems with a horse that is sour to the leg. I have ruled out soundness/tack.

It started more recently when I switched to wearing bigger spurs. I made this issue worse by taking off the spurs and my leg when she would react like that. Now she is sour with or without spurs. She pins her ears, kicks out and bucks a little bit. The past few rides I have been putting my spur in her/or leg on and not taking it off until she quits bucking and moves forward. The bucking/kicking out has gotten significantly better, but she still pins her ears and is pretty sour and it's like we are starting over every ride. Any suggestions on how to fix this problem?

[jetsmom]

Try riding with a crop/dressage whip instead of spurs. Ask nicely with just leg, then more firmly, and then demand with the crop. If you get a surprising leap forward DO NOT pull back on the reins right away. Reward the response, then adjust speed/gait.

[DancingQueen]

Since it's spring time and it's a she...
Some mares get a littel touchy around this time of year. If dealing with general disobedience issues the proper way doesn't resolve the issue you might want to try putting her on regumate or giving her hormone shots.

[weasel1088]

I should say the tack fits correctly. I don't think it's a pain issue. She walk, trot, canters fine on the longe line, tacked up or untacked and she is sour walk, trot, and canter with any leg pressure, equally on straight aways and when circling. It's not just transitions, it's any time you put your leg on her ears go back.

She is starting to move forward, but she is still so sour. I would like to try to exhaust all training ideas before I switch to homonal methods, though that is a thought if nothing else works out.

[weasel1088]

Actually, she's not always sour to the leg. She's fine to jump. It's usually in the transition to the canter, but it can show up when you really put your leg on at any gait.

[fourmares]

Loose the spurs for a while and pick up a dressage whip. Ask nice once, then cluck and wack. Pretty soon she'll be schooled to your leg. I'm guessing that you are either, nagging her with the spur, not asking without the spur first or poking her when you don't mean to.

[Donkey]

Ditto to the above poster.

Sounds like you are already making progress. Be very consistent and fair and continue to work on it FOREVER. And (very very important) make sure you are not unintentionally blocking her forward movement with your hands. You might want to consider only riding with a loose rein while initially re-schooling.

[weasel1088]

Loose the spurs for a while and pick up a dressage whip. Ask nice once, then cluck and wack. Pretty soon she'll be schooled to your leg. I'm guessing that you are either, nagging her with the spur, not asking without the spur first or poking her when you don't mean to.

I am guilty of asking her with the spur first. I took off the spurs today towards the end, but she was still sour towards my leg. I did the same thing, I kept squeezing and digging in with my heels until she moved forward. No bucking or kicking without the spurs, but a lot of ears pinning... I will pick up a dressage whip tomorrow. Will she get over the ears pinning?

Ditto to the above poster.

Sounds like you are already making progress. Be very consistent and fair and continue to work on it FOREVER. And (very very important) make sure you are not unintentionally blocking her forward movement with your hands. You might want to consider only riding with a loose rein while initially re-schooling.

Yeah I think I am pretty good about that, but I haven't been conscious of it so I could be unintentionally blocking her with my hands, I will make an effort to focus on that when I ride her tomorrow.


So am I right to think that this is an attitude thing?

[hrsgirl07]

Actually, she's not always sour to the leg. She's fine to jump. It's usually in the transition to the canter, but it can show up when you really put your leg on at any gait.

I think our horses are twins... let me know when you figure this out!

[Addison]

Ulcers can sometimes make a horse sour to leg aids.

As long as the rider has a decent leg, every horse should be able to accept spurs.

[brummelhorsefarm]

We had a pony jumper that had this exact problem.

Add leg, if horse shows any kind of resistance or does not immediately move forward, apply dressage whip to hind end.

At the beginning stages, we even put the horse on a lunge line (with rider) to remove the factor of steering. Keep it simple and expect to spend a lot of time on this.

The pony jumper did eventually come out of his sourness by two months or so.

Hope this helps! :)

[weasel1088]

I think our horses are twins... let me know when you figure this out!
Will do!!!

Ulcers can sometimes make a horse sour to leg aids.

As long as the rider has a decent leg, every horse should be able to accept spurs.

When the problem first started and I took off my spurs for a while, she got much better to leg pressure (no pinning of the ears/bucking/kicking) but could still get sour if you really kicked her when she gets behind the leg. I was advised to put the spurs back on and just let her buck it out, well she eventually quits bucking/kicking, but anytime you put the leg on her ears are flat back now, even if she moves right out.

If it were ulcers, how would I go about diagnosing/treating it? Call the vet or is this something I can go ahead and treat her for?

We had a pony jumper that had this exact problem.

Add leg, if horse shows any kind of resistance or does not immediately move forward, apply dressage whip to hind end.

At the beginning stages, we even put the horse on a lunge line (with rider) to remove the factor of steering. Keep it simple and expect to spend a lot of time on this.

The pony jumper did eventually come out of his sourness by two months or so.

Hope this helps! :)

Yeah I am going to ditch the spurs and get a dressage whip. Since I have put spurs back on, she has gotten significantly more sour (pinning her ears) when I close my leg. Even when she stops bucking and kicking and she does move out, she is extremely sour to the leg.

She has always been behind the leg, even before this whole problem started.

[December]

My mare is like this too. Agree with fourmares also. I would NOT dig with your heels, but go whisper quiet with your aids, and reinforce with the dressage whip. My mare actually slows down if I get stronger with my legs (spurs or not) and this is attitude! I was always taught to ask nicely, then ask a little harder before using the crop, but I find this deteriorates with her, and she gets more sulky and less forward the more leg or spur I use. Responds to the light touch and reinforce with a good whack with the dressage whip if there is no response. Mares!!!

[weasel1088]

I rode her today with a crop, I went and got a dressage whip after I rode her. She was soooooo much better. No pinning of the ears in the trot, she pinned them a little bit when I asked her to canter, but she moved right into the canter when I added my leg after using the crop a couple of times during the transitions. Overall very forward, not as b****y.

[Addison]

There is a lot of information on this board about ulcers. Go ahead and do a search and you will find many people who have great advice on the subject.

[00Jumper]

If you're still concerned about ulcers, I would have her scoped by your vet. My mare behaves very similarly to yours and we scoped her to rule out ulcers - she had some mild spots but nothing worth treating. She is on probiotics now to help her tummy a little. :)

I would agree that it might just be a mare thing. My mare is not particularly mareish but goodnight, forget riding her in the month of February. She's so sour and unpleasant with any leg at all that it's just not worth it. That said, the work you're doing (provided it's being done properly and constructively) is a great exercise to increase leg responsiveness in general. It certainly won't hurt, but I would bear the fact that she is a mare in mind, and understand that there are times of the year when she may be a little more tender on her sides and back than usual. ;)

[fourmares]

My gelding is the same way about spurs, except he comes to a screeching halt and wants to rear. I rode him with a dressage whip for about 3 months. Now I ride with a regular crop and he's fine.

[findeight]

Even if ulcers are a problem, treatment is not likely to fix her ears-it's a mare, they do that. Just expressing an opinion. BUT you may find when you get more subtle with your cues because she responds better, she will have less to object to.

What do you do after you get the canter? Alot of people start picking at them right away, too fast, "frame", maybe wrong lead, all sorts of stuff that immediately "punishes" the horse. Too much bit and too many gimmicks like draw reins incorrectly used also lead to this. They get to where they will not willingly go canter because they know they will get snatched back the first stride, so they quit trying and get defensive.

When you ask and get the canter, let her canter around the ring once or twice on a loose rein. Even if you get a wrong lead, let her go a bit before correcting, establishing a good canter is the number 1 thing. Don't take it away too quick and don't be harsh.

Not knocking the ulcer theory, it can make them pretty uncomfortable and it's worth looking into. But it's not a training technique and you have the same horse with many of the same habits after treatment as you did before. Maybe more comfortable but they will still balk at the canter if they are not properly schooled to accept the aids or the rider is inconsistent in applying them.

Make sure you ask first with seat and leg, then tell with stronger leg and then demand with that stick and spur. Then REWARD by a loose rein and letting them go a bit before you start schooling anything. Do it this way every time and you will soon just have to ask and they will be willing. Most of the time-not a machine...or a gelding.

[Addison]

Good advice Findeight