the not-so-lesson lesson

[4xhoof]

I do a lot of forum reading but finally joined up since I actually have something to ask and need advise.

[mjrtango93]

hmmmmmmm...... never run into that issue and I've been with the same trainer 15 years. Perhaps you have grown past what the instructor can teach and its time to find a new barn.

[Bearhunter]

If you really respect your trainer's knowledge, then I would approach her/him and ask them to change it up. You should be doing more work on the flat than just basic wtc. You should be doing different jumping exercises that incoporate your more advanced flat work. If your trainer is resistant, then get a different trainer.

[horsestablereview]

I read somewhere that the best way to approach a situation like this is to see if you can resolve it. The literature I read said try approaching your trainer about your goals and things you'd like to do more, then perhaps try private lessons. If all that fails, then maybe it's time to find a new trainer. We all get into ruts and your trainer might be in one. Hopefully a gentle nudge and he/she will change it up for you...or perhaps explain to you his/her reasoning for the way things are and the way he/she teaches. If you still aren't happy with the philosophy, then there's no harm in looking elsewhere. There are a lot of trainers out there and some will be better for you than others.

Good luck. Remember that you are paying for your instructor's knowledge. If you don't feel like you're getting your money's worth, then stop! Riding should be fun and challenging. It's too expensive and too dangerous not to be having a blast. :)

[hollyhorse2000]

Sounds a bit like a lazy trainer to me . . .

Or maybe she doesn't now how to fix what she's seeing you do wrong?

Or maybe you need to augment your group lessons with private? I've personally never done group lessons. I don't have the time to waste and prefer the full attention of the instructor. I also am pretty vocal about whatever issue is bothering me i.e. I can't keep my stirrups on, or I think I'm leaning. I even periodically ask for a lunge lesson or suggest a stirrup-less-lesson . . .


Outline your goals, try private and maybe look around for a different trainer.

[Come Shine]

Perhaps I missed this, but is this a school horse or your own?

If it is a school horse, perhaps this formula is a successful one for the coach in keeping her mounts sound and going for students. I had one coach (very good) who did lessons like this and the horses always knew what to expect, were happy and ticked along nicely for many years.

More advanced riders, or those with their own horses, moved up in groups or had privates.

[4xhoof]

Thanks for the advise.

It is my horse so I can practice exercises on my own and take him to clinics which I LOVE to do. I love clinics. I did have the thought that instructor is in a rut. Seems like she may want to be somewhere else lately. I know we all have days or weeks like that.

I originally took 6+ years of private lessons at another barn. Group lessons were new to me but I found them sort of fun. I like being with other riders. But could be that it is time to go back to privates so that I can focus on me, my horse and our goals. I have noticed that she does give a few others more feedback as far as their EQ riding skills so could be that I am doing okay but I know I am not that good and I have things to work on.

[Angel Undercover]

I agree that going back to private lessons will probably be your best bet. I was in a similar situation in the past; I had been riding with the same group for a number of years, we had even moved barns together, and had become quite good friends. However, I wanted to show and be competitive and they were not interested in more than riding for pleasure. Finally, as hard as it was, I moved to a different barn with a great coach so I could take private lessons on his old gp horse and come closer to accomplishing my goals.

If you like the social aspect of group lessons, could you do semi-privates? Perhaps there is another rider with similar goals to yours that may want to ride with you?

[kateh]

You're not getting your money's worth out of a lesson and you need to fix that. Either talk to your trainer and ask if she can teach more flatwork (no one should ever be "past" flatwork) and more advanced courses, or give private lessons a try, or switch trainers.

I eventually left a trainer due to this issue. I'd show up for a private lesson and she'd a) forget I was coming and have to scramble to find a horse, then b) give me maybe $10 worth of feedback in 30 min. I wasn't spending my money on that. I switched to a barn where I get my money's worth and more.

[dghunter]

If you like the social aspect of group lessons, could you do semi-privates? Perhaps there is another rider with similar goals to yours that may want to ride with you?

Along with this, you could take private lessons and then organize a trail ride or a hack day with your friends. That way you can still ride with them like you enjoy but you get the private attention from your trainer. Group lessons are hard, I think at least, once you reach a certain level. It's best to have one-on-one attention.

[kdow]

I originally took 6+ years of private lessons at another barn. Group lessons were new to me but I found them sort of fun. I like being with other riders. But could be that it is time to go back to privates so that I can focus on me, my horse and our goals. I have noticed that she does give a few others more feedback as far as their EQ riding skills so could be that I am doing okay but I know I am not that good and I have things to work on.

When I was really into riding when I was younger, I actually took private and group lessons. It worked out pretty well - the group was all people of about the same skill level, so often when the instructor was correcting someone else, you could watch and see the difference and that helped you learn yourself. And then often in the private lessons we'd work on something that had come up in the group lesson - maybe something a little more complicated than was practical to work on in the group lesson, or a little more refined, etc.

[yellowbritches]

It could be that the trainer is lazy or stuck in a rut. It could also be that you are beyond the point that you need to be "taught." Example, when I have a lesson now, especially over fences, my coach is pretty quiet unless I need to fix something or be reminded of something. He observes, may make suggestions to fix something or try something different, then leaves me be, for the most part. I know that tomorrow, when I jump in a group setting, unless I'm riding like a sack of poo, I'll go through the exercise and I MIGHT get a "good", but I also very well might not get anything except the beginning of the things he needs to tell the next rider.

However, I will say that since you do do the same thing in every lesson, this might be a rut. You can chat with the trainer and see if they might snap out of it, you may need a different group or a private lesson (as the riders you ride with may need the repetitive lessons), or you may need to consider a move.

[DancingQueen]

Probably repeating a little what others have already said, but here goes anyways.

First of all, I would bring it up with your trainer. Since you mention that one of the riders in your group doesn't understand whay you would want to do anything else and not just warm up and bang out a course once or twice, it could be that your trainer simply caters to what he percieves the group wants from their lesson. If you like the group, maybe add some private lessons and do the group sometimes?

It can sometimes be beneficial to not get overinstructed all the time, maybe this is the purpose of the group you joined? Making it more horse show like perhaps? Does the other riders only do the group or do they complement with privates?

I do think that group lessons can be very good. I think that sometimes it's not bad to have the opportunity to perform more general tasks and get away from the horse/rider specifics. In a horse show situation everybody is judged the same, you don't get a free pass because your horse rides a certain way. You are also more on your own and so it's not a bad thing to practice riding a course or doing your flatwork without too much instruction every now and then.
You will have the opportunity to watch others do and learn from what they do right as well as from that they don't.
Watching NNs trip and then comparing it to yours could give you an advantage at a show. "That horse looks like hers, she's not getting the numbers, my horse usually goes the same so I might have to move up a little" (or the opposite if that applies).

Even if it's not the same specialized instruction you would recieve in a private there should still be enough time to give every rider some case specific pointers.
If you feel that you are left to yourself to figure out how to fix your problems and your horses problems you'll need to switch things up.

Trainers can sometimes be a little touchy so, this could be an angle to start conversation from. "NN said that all the others really want to do is jump a course twice but I want you to know that I'm interested in doing more of "insert whatever you want to do here". Do you think that can be incorporated in the group lesson or should I do some private lessons instead?

It could be that your trainer has become a little lazy or again, is just catering to the wishes of this particular group. Mentioning to him that you want to learn more could give him the inspiration to step it up. He might be excited that he has a student that cares!
It could also be that your trainer lacks the knowledge to properly instruct why and how to make it better outside of the generic, that was too long, do it again. Or general remarks on position rythm etc.

You will only know if you let him know that you want to learn these things. If you do and lessons still doesn't change, you will have to re-evaluate.

If you like the barn enough it might be a matter of just "sucking it up". Maybe save some money by doing every other week and attending clinics a bit more often instead.
Or you might want to consider moving to a different barn with a trainer that suits your needs better.

Good luck!

[MoonWitch]

Perhaps? I had this issue with my past trainer - most comments were "good" with little or no feedback. As a trainer myself, I try to explain why I'm asking you to do something or ask you what you're feeling.

Advice? I like when students ask questions - it gives me direction and lets me know where they are mentally. There's nothing worse than hearing yourself talk just to make the time go by. It helps to know you're getting through.

That being said, if it truly is trainer burn out (as it was in my case) then it's time to move on. If you don't love what you do, you can't teach someone else effectively and it shows!!

[vacation1]

Some feedback such in regards to position, not enough release over the fence, horse is leaning, going to fast, etc but no solution on how to fix the problems. Repeat at the next lesson

This seems like an obvious problem. A trainer can't fix a problem for the rider, but once she has identified a problem, shouldn't she be vigorously helping the rider acquire the tools to fix it?

[Petstorejunkie]

sounds to me like a poor instructor. she may have an eye for error but no means to correct it. i wouldnt bother lessoning with her anymore if i were you.

[Wizard of Oz's]

Move! Yes, I've run into that problem, and it's a complete waste of money. I would definately switch trainers if I were you. When you need to look online to get excersizes because your trainer won't really teach you, then you need to move. Your trainer now might not actually know the stuff you want to learn. It sounds stupid, I know, but I've known trainers who do exactly that because thats really all they know! Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

[DancingQueen]

#moonwitch
Yes, in a way.
I think that when you are fresh and inspired you will work really hard to inspire your students.
When you are a little burnt out you can still do it but you need your students to inspire you.
maybe giving to much benefit of the doubt but maybe this trainer is just a little burnt out from students who are not looking to excell and has gotten stuck in a rut.
Perhaps OP can inspire her trainer to give her what he is capable of by showing more interest and being that person who makes it worth while.

Switching barns isn't always easy. There may not be another good barn in close proximity. It may be a friendship thing. The good barn may have a waiting list.
Simply moving may not be as easy as it sounds. Even if it is as simple as just packing up, I think that talking to the trainer about the issues and giving him a chance to rectify the shortcomings should be the first step.

What if OP just tells trainer she's moving out because of this and he says, "I wish I had known you wanted more. I would have loved for just one person in my group to say that"!

I'm also a trainer. I started out wanting to get the very best out of every student but in time I realized that a lot of people are just there to have some good clean fun. They don't want the pressure of always trying to be a little better, they just want to feel good about themselves where they are right now and learn alittle bit here and there.

Most often my students will let me know which kind they are in the lesson by how they act and react but sometimes I'm wrong.
I will occationally peg a quite one as a hobby rider who is more interested in just having a nice soft lesson with the same format and a lot of repetition, maybe always being lessonstar.
When they (and they might have thought about it for a while beforehand) finally tell me that they want to learn more, that they want to do what the "better" riders do etc I get excited and I try to give them a little extra to make up for lost time.

I like to teach and I have a lot to give, in particular I love it when students have an aha momant where they all of a sudden experience a feeling or understands something for the first time.
I would hate for both of us to miss out on that just because I never knew that they were actually interested in the art of riding!

Just beware OP in case you do talk to your trainer about it and he then starts to come down on you hard in your lessons about things he doesn't give the others grief about.
Don't take it as being singled out and punished for speaking up. Chances are your trainer is responding to the fact that you expressed an interest in learning by asking more of you and you should be proud that he cares enough to ride you harder!
In time he will start to use you as an example.

Nobody want a group member to hog the lesson with all their own issues but don't be afraid to ask your trainer for clarification. "How do you want me to fix that long spot? Should I move up out of the turn or step out and fit another step?" "It feels like she's leaning in through the turn, what should I do to fix that?"
Be a bit of a nudge here and there if you need to be. I'm sure you can limit yourself to what's appropriate for the group and who knows, they might all benefit!

Again, good luck and have fun!

[DancingQueen]

#4hoof
Where are you located? Would it be easy to move or inconvenient? Could you get somebody in for a private schooling once a month or so if your trainer doesn't want to do privates?
Flatwork, grids and even sometimes just pole work is so much fun. Not to mention beneficial for both horse and rider! You seem like you have a pretty good handle on things yourself but there's so much to be gained from the right input from the ground other then just setting jumps.

I really hope you figure out a way to get the help to learn as much as you want.

TC/M

[4xhoof]

Thanks to all you instructors for chiming in! It could be that the other riders are into only doing courses more for hobby. Could be that there is no real interest to advance and that, I can see, could cause a instructor to go into a rut or stay with the majority since that is what pays the bills.

I keep a jumping excercises book in my trunk so maybe I could use that to break the ice and ask instructor if we could try some of these exercises. I like the barn and the people. Within a reasonable driving distances, there are no other barns/trainers that have impressed me much either so I do want this to work. Just need to progress as a 'whole' rider, not just someone who can perch on the horse and go over fences. Must be my obsessive, A-type personality!

[Horseymama]

At a barn that I rode at many years ago as an amateur the weekly schedule went something like this:

Group flat lessons on Tuesday (one in the am, one in the pm)

Private or group gymnastic lessons on Wed or Thurs

Group lessons over a new course (related to gymnastic exercise) on Sat or Sun. The weekend lesson was like a show in the way that everyone warmed their horse up and did their course, and then would get the feedback. It was also required that you wear your boots and breeches for this lesson, as it was more formal. (This is back when everyone used to wear full chaps). It was a fun format!

You were responsible for hacking your own horse on Fridays and the days you didn't lesson (and Monday was their day off)

Maybe you could suggest something like this, that way the other people that you ride with could have their simple fun course work, but you (and if there are others like you), could get some very specific work done on the flat and with gymnastics, and then be able to apply that to your courses.

[theblondejumper]

I have been in this position also and found that I was just past what the trainer could offer me. Your instructor does not seem very invested in her teaching IMHO.

[sanctuary]

Perhaps I missed this, but is this a school horse or your own?

If it is a school horse, perhaps this formula is a successful one for the coach in keeping her mounts sound and going for students. I had one coach (very good) who did lessons like this and the horses always knew what to expect, were happy and ticked along nicely for many years.

More advanced riders, or those with their own horses, moved up in groups or had privates.

absolutely! I know my lessons on my school horses are definitely different than those lessons with owners and their horses. Like Come Shine said, I have to keep my school horses happy and sound as they have to do this multiple times a week and mostly for beginners. My more advanced students with their own horses do much more difficult flat and jump work.

The other thing is maybe you're riding in the wrong group. A group lesson is only as good as it's weakest rider.

[equest]

You're not getting your money's worth out of a lesson and you need to fix that. Either talk to your trainer and ask if she can teach more flatwork (no one should ever be "past" flatwork) and more advanced courses, or give private lessons a try, or switch trainers.

I eventually left a trainer due to this issue. I'd show up for a private lesson and she'd a) forget I was coming and have to scramble to find a horse, then b) give me maybe $10 worth of feedback in 30 min. I wasn't spending my money on that. I switched to a barn where I get my money's worth and more.

Agreed. If your needs are not being met, then move on. I have been in this situation before and it's frustrating. It's not an easy conversation to have, but you need to be upfront with your trainer if you are going to have a good working relationship and improve your skills.

[PonyPenny]

Yes, sometimes the learning stops and trainers' just go through the motions. This happened with my daughter and she moved to a trainer that so far is making things interesting and more leaning is being done. It was hard to leave last trainer. Had been with her for so long it felt like a divorce when we left. My daughter also does clinics when she can and I trailer her to a LBNT when I can afford it and he is in town. New trianer supports this and it has helped my daughter as she gets new and different perspectives on how to work with her new horse. She did the EAP with Melanie Taylor and did the "circle of death", It is a great exercise.

[foursocks]

Hopefully, since you like your instructor, you can work it out so you can stay with her and still feel like you are learning and progressing.

If not, though, you will most likely be very glad when you move and do find a trainer who is more invested in your advancement. I was in a similar situation when I first got back into riding and it literally drove me to tears some days. I did not know if I wasn't getting feedback because I was so awful she felt it wasn't worth it- or, if she was just not interested in me because at that point I wasn't bringing in more than the weekly lesson fee. I suspect it was the latter, sadly.

My "trainer," who was actually a very good instructor- I saw her teaching others, so I know this- would talk with other people, with me, on her phone, and seemed generally disinterested in our little group, except for the junior on her show horse. The other two of us were very eager to learn and progress, but we just did not get more than a fraction of her time and attention. It was really depressing!

Getting away from that was one of the best things I could have done for myself as a rider. This is especially true since I eventually ended up with my current trainer, who is imaginative, driven, always enthusiastic, extremely talented, and has become a good friend.

So, good luck with working things out with your trainer, but again- do not be afraid to decide you have had enough and look for a better place to spend your money and your time! :)