MVR to launch candle fundraiser to help a fellow rescue with sick Mustang.

[MVR]

Dr. Bill is a young mustang that is 1 of 3 Christine Griffin pulled from the 3 Strikes Ranch ordeal (*WARNING* link has graphic video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FVMvSFlqn8&feature=player_embedded ), and the vets can not figure out what exactly is wrong with him. Vet bills are piling up and they are not a 501c3 rescue, just private at this time. So MVR decided to step in and help!

We will be asking people to form teams to sell candles. These are gorgeous and very high quality with many styles, scents and scenes to choose from. See website- http://www.eacandles.com/ Half of all proceeds generated by these candles will go directly to the costs associated with Dr. Bill's medical expenses. All orders will be taken by individual team members and will be turned in by the deadline. This is a great way to help a horse in need by just selling a few candles to friends, family and co-workers. If interested, please contact me so that I can ship you the needed materials. Material request deadline is one week from today- May 27th, 2009. Candle order deadline is Saturday June 27th, 2009. Everything is free of cost to you, you just take orders and monies, send them in to us prepaid and we do the rest! All proceeds benefit the mustang named Dr Bill, who needs our help overcoming his illness. Read his story at http://gentledmustangs.com/

[edit]
If you would like to make a donation and would like a tax donation receipt, please make the donation through MVR paypal- mountainviewrescue@yahoo.com and be sure to add the word Mustang in the description.

I sincerely encourage everyone to offer a little time to help a rescue and a horse need. Your efforts won't go unnoticed for the deserving horses in Christine's care.

Raquel Ferotti
Founder/ President
Mountain View Rescue

[MVR]

Not anyone would like to help? :confused:

[Angela Freda]

Have they looked into ulcers on this horse?

[arabhorse2]

MVR, what you're asking people to do is help an individual pay a high vet bill on an animal she willingly took in, without the financial ability to care for said animal.

I'm sorry, but it seems as if your friend bit off more than she could chew, and knew that going in.

Her desire to help is admirable, but if she had so little financial resources and knowingly took on three animals whom she knew needed special veterinary care, I don't see how that's anything but her own fault.

Now you want people to bail her out for something that happened because of her own shortsightedness.

Sorry, but my time, effort, and whatever pittance I can spare will continue to go to real rescues/shelters, and not an individual who willingly got herself into a bind.

[MVR]

MVR, what you're asking people to do is help an individual pay a high vet bill on an animal she willingly took in, without the financial ability to care for said animal.

I'm sorry, but it seems as if your friend bit off more than she could chew, and knew that going in.

Her desire to help is admirable, but if she had so little financial resources and knowingly took on three animals whom she knew needed special veterinary care, I don't see how that's anything but her own fault.

Now you want people to bail her out for something that happened because of her own shortsightedness.

Sorry, but my time, effort, and whatever pittance I can spare will continue to go to real rescues/shelters, and not an individual who willingly got herself into a bind.

These were horses her rescue, which gentles mustangs, placed w/ asshat Meduna when everyone thought he was the greatest, and that she pulled when this mess hit the fan. I understand it can be perceived as you described above. I really don't feel thats the case. As the vet reports came out from 3 strikes, the horses were starved and not sick, they were issued health certificates, so I'm sure she was not planning on this at all. I don't think her willingness to help the horses she placed there should be considered a fault. As a rescuer am happy she took them back instead of shrugging them off onto someone else. I think that it clearly shows she is responsible for the horses in her care.

I'm not asking anyone to bail her out. I'm not bailing her out. I am trying my best to help a fellow rescuer in her time of need, as I would hope someone would for us if we ever needed it. I do run a "real" rescue and had long before I became a 501(c)3. Just because you don't have a non profit status doesn't make you any less legit. I can name several rescues who have a 501(c)3 that could give a rats behind about the horses they "save".

[Angela Freda]

their website is www.gentledmustangs.com ?
They still have the horses listed as being at 3 Strikes and pictures of Bella and Dr. Bill with Jason Meduna on their website.
I would have removed those by now, maybe that's just me?

And these horses had only gone to 3 Strikes in February? So they weren't there too long?
How did she decide to take the horses there- did she visit 3 Strikes before placing the horses there?
And it looks like they've bought a new place? They're relocating themselves and the 'rescue'?

Have they ruled out Ulcers in this poor young horse?

[Angela Freda]

http://ag.ca.gov/charities/faq.php

Is Gentled Mustangs registered with the state of CA to solicit as a charity?

[MistyBlue]

I feel for your friend and the horse, but on the BB we're not allowed to solicit funds for non 501(c)3 cases.

[JSwan]

Hold on a minute.

Are you trying to tell me that these horses, which were placed into the hands of an animal abuser - by irresponsible "rescuers" who had no idea what they were doing, then saved by real rescues, have now been turned over to yet another person who has NO ability to care for them?

And you want us to give MONEY to this person?

Ummm - no way in hell.

She needs to contact the shelter or rescue and turn the horses over.

Good luck to her.

[blue&blond]

What is going on with him, if you don't mind me asking?

[JSwan]

Oh - and for the OP - be careful with what you're doing. You may lose your tax exempt status if your actions inure to the benefit of a private individual.

[Moderator 1]

To be honest, I don't know the regulations re: how a 501c3 can dole out the donations they receive. The MVR is a 501c3 and is evidently accepting donations for this horse's benefit.

A 501c3 can post re: fundraising efforts in the forum, and each poster can make the decision for themselves about which ones they'd prefer to support.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[MVR]

Have they looked into ulcers on this horse?

Please see http://gentledmustangs.com/3_Strikes_Ranch_Sickness.php for a full description of all the medical treatment Dr Bill has received. He is on Ranitidine.

[MVR]

their website is www.gentledmustangs.com ?
They still have the horses listed as being at 3 Strikes and pictures of Bella and Dr. Bill with Jason Meduna on their website.
I would have removed those by now, maybe that's just me?

And these horses had only gone to 3 Strikes in February? So they weren't there too long?
How did she decide to take the horses there- did she visit 3 Strikes before placing the horses there?
And it looks like they've bought a new place? They're relocating themselves and the 'rescue'?

Have they ruled out Ulcers in this poor young horse?

Please direct all questions regarding the Christine's rescue to her directly. I do not want to misrepresent her, or the facts of the situation in anyway. christine@GentledMustangs.com

[MVR]

Hold on a minute.

Are you trying to tell me that these horses, which were placed into the hands of an animal abuser - by irresponsible "rescuers" who had no idea what they were doing, then saved by real rescues, have now been turned over to yet another person who has NO ability to care for them?

And you want us to give MONEY to this person?

Ummm - no way in hell.

She needs to contact the shelter or rescue and turn the horses over.

Good luck to her.

Ummm...no. Not sure where you got that from, but here is what happened play by play posted by SHI Founder Audrey Reynolds who has been in coordination w/ Christine since the initial rescue of these Mustangs off a feedlot. I hope this clears the misconceptions up for you...

Saving Horses Inc.
a 501c3 non-profit.
http://www.savinghorsesinc.com/Donations.html

You may remember last spring a mare and foal were rescued off the S. Ca feedlot. I co-ordinated the effort and the mare and foal went to a friend of mine, Christine Griffin in Ramona.

The foal had been born on the filthy feedlot and had contracted strangles. The Mom, later named Lily, had a brand on her butt that had been cut into the skin.

Rescuing these two from the feedlot brought strangles onto Christine's property and she had to contend with an outbreak. The foal was then aptly named "Doctor Bill", as Christine's expenses were huge.

After weaning, the mare was adopted by a Canadian FOB, and she is currently in training and will go to Canada soon.

Christine had to find homes for several horses, and due to the state of the economy and a sad lack of suitable homes, at the invitation of 3 strikes, she sent 2 mustangs and Dr. Bill to 3 strikes in February.

At this stage no one had any idea what was going on there, everyone had great things to say about 3 strikes. It seemed like the perfect place for them. Money was raised on ABR and privately for their journey to Nebraska.

The 3 horses were transported back to Ramona from 3 strikes a few weeks ago, to the cost of $1,000, and Dr. Bill was VERY sick when he arrived home.

He was very thin, depressed, running a fever and several tests were run. He is still not doing well and has recently spent a day at San Luis Rey Equine Hospital for further tests. Christine's bills to date are in the region of $1400.

I know what a huge heart Christine and her husband Larry have. They recently drove 100+ miles to pick up an emaciated mare in the California desert at my request, and they fostered my last mustang rescue and helped me find a home for him.

There isn't anything they wouldn't do to help a horse in need.

Bills to date:
4-22-09 Wormer & lice treatment $50 (paid to Floss at Denkai Sanctuary)

4-28-09 Initial exam and blood draws $90

4-28-09 Wormer (from my own supply)

5-5-09 Ultrasound $200 & CBC $50

5-6-09 Ranitidine (Zantac) $40

5-15-09 CBC and blood sent to Stat Labs for parasites & for EPM test.

5-18-09 Exam, charge for antibiotics given on 4-28-09 & 5-15-09, CBC on 5-15-09
$197 (no charge yet for EMP test)

5-19-09 San Luis Rey Equine Hospital $556.68

5-20-09 Fecal test for Salmonella sent to TX A&M $50, Succeed Fecal Blood Test -
n/c. Ranitidine $30, S. Equi test


4-28-09 $90
5-5-09 $250
5-6-09 $40
5-18-09 $197
5-19-09 $556.68
5-20-09 $120
$1253.68

Supplements purchased: Equipride (vitamins, minerals & probiotics - prescribed by vet) $52, Ox-E Drops (anti-fungal, bacterial, viral) $23.00

Don't have the cost yet on:

EMP test
S. Equi test
Stat Lab charge

I am asking for help for Christine to pay Dr. Bill's medical costs. Donations to SHI will be tax deductible. If you prefer to pay her veterinarian directly I will give you that information.

The goal of this fundraiser is $1500.

This is about a precious little yearling......Dr. Bill.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping this little guy who is a real trooper.

http://www.savinghorsesinc.com

OR snail mail to:
8840 Hunter Pass, Alpine, CA 91901

THANK YOU!!

Audrey Reynolds, Founder

[MVR]

Oh - and for the OP - be careful with what you're doing. You may lose your tax exempt status if your actions inure to the benefit of a private individual.

There is absolutely NOTHING unlawful about what we are doing. Being that I filed my 1023 application myself, and know exactly the laws pertaining to it, I thoroughly checked to be sure. These funds are not benefiting any individual person, but benefiting a horse named Dr. Bill. Now if we were raising money to pay Christine's personal health or hospital bills, you would be correct.

All funds received by any 501(c)3 org that are earmarked for a particular purpose must be used for that purpose, or offered to be returned before applying elsewhere. All donations received for Dr. Bill will go directly to his vet, not any other person, individual, or otherwise. Being that our mission statement is as follows:<to rehabilitate, re-school & re-home unwanted, neglected, mistreated & misunderstood equines. We strive to eliminate the suffering and senseless slaughter of our beloved equines one horse at a time. From off track Thoroughbreds, abandonment/ neglect cases, owner relinquishment, to orphan foals from nurse mare farms, we offer an environment for growth and learning and hand select adoptive homes to which each horse will be best paired with each adopter. If suitable homes can not be found, horses stay at our farm in our sanctuary program. In addition to the rehab and re-homing of horses, this corporation provides continuing adult and youth education in order to encourage responsible ownership of horses.> This fundraising effort falls well into our mission and bylaws and is absolutely permitted. All candle sales are offered for Dr. Bill, as specifically described. Half of all proceeds will be paid directly to his vet office. In no way shape or form are any funds being misappropriated here. The general public is aware that these monies are being solicited for a needy horse who is not at our rescue. There is absolutely nothing illegal about that. Many times we solicit funds for horses we can not bring in directly. Provided the public is aware of this, it is well within our mission and in no way constitutes any sort of violation to our non-profit status.

[JSwan]

If this individual owns the horses, then you are inuring to the benefit of a private individual.

If your mission statement specifies that you provide grants or low interest loans to horse owners in need, then you are not inuring to the benefit of a private individual - IF - the individual applies to the nonprofit and there is a mechanism within the nonprofit to evaluate the application and approve or disapprove the application.

But if you intend to solicit money and then pay off an individuals bills with it - then you are indeed inuring to the benefit of an individual - and that is an abuse of the 501(c)(3) status.

It does not matter why the bill was incurred, or if you use it to pay off the horse's vet bill.

There is nothing wrong with assisting people in need - but you - as a nonprofit - have a fiduciary duty to the public. And the public has a right to expect their donations are used appropriately.

Unless your rescue is set up to conduct this type of loan/grant program - your request is most likely a violation. If this lady was fostering the horses for your rescue - your request would be perfectly legitimate.

You may want to consult the IRS website and definitely consult your attorney before turning over any funds to this individual.

Just because you disclose the activity to the public does not make it mission related.

Helping horses is in your mission statement -but in this case you are not helping the horse. You are paying a vet bill for someone who cannot pay it. By paying her bill, it frees up her personal finances, and imposes no obligation on her to repay you, to use her funds to care for the horses in her possession, or to refrain from obtaining more horses that she cannot feed or care for.

There is no way for a donor to know - which is why donors rely on charities to set up internal processes with checks and balances - to make sure donor money is used wisely and the charity isn't taken advantage of.

I'm sure these folks are super nice, and I'm sure everyone's heart is in the right place.

Good luck to you.

[certifiedgirl]

I don't think MVR is trying to "pull a fast one"- they explained in the first post what they are trying to do- help someone, help this poor horse. I'm sorry things have gotten to the point where the focus is instantly shifted to question everyone's efforts.

I hope the yearling makes a complete recovery, he's had a rough life so far. Jingles to Mr. Bill and his people.

[JSwan]

Sigh....

I am NOT accusing anyone of pulling a fast one.

I am pointing out the fact that a charity cannot inure to the benefit of a private individual.

If people want to give the individual money, that is none of my business. What is illegal is what the OP proposes - run money through her charity, use the charity's status in a marketing plan and divide the money between her charity and a private individual, and/or use the status to help out a "friend".

This is illegal. Even if well-intentioned and innocent. I'm sorry.

[MVR]

If this individual owns the horses, then you are inuring to the benefit of a private individual.

If your mission statement specifies that you provide grants or low interest loans to horse owners in need, then you are not inuring to the benefit of a private individual - IF - the individual applies to the nonprofit and there is a mechanism within the nonprofit to evaluate the application and approve or disapprove the application.

Actually, it is not our mission statement that has to specify this. It is Part 3 of the 1023 application section 1 which refers to the Location of Purpose Clause in our organizing documents. This is listed as page 1 article 2 and reads as follows: ARTICLE II The purpose for which said corporation is formed will be dedicated to abused neglected and unwanted horses. Once rescued, these horses will be rehabilitated and adopted into hand selected life long homes. In addition, the corporation reserves the right to do all things incident to the aforesaid primary purpose of the said corporation, and specifically reserves the right to undertake any and all lawful purpose or purposes authorized under KRS chapter 273.

But if you intend to solicit money and then pay off an individuals bills with it - then you are indeed inuring to the benefit of an individual - and that is an abuse of the 501(c)(3) status.

It does not matter why the bill was incurred, or if you use it to pay off the horse's vet bill.

Again you are mistaken, and no, in fact we are not abusing our status. The 1023 application part 6 section 1a -3 addresses this issue and when we originally filed, we answered no to this section, that we would not in fact provide goods, services, or funds to individuals or organizations. That has since been amended, which is referred to again in our organizing documents- ARTICLE VII a. Said corporation is organized exclusively for charitable, religious, educational, and scientific purposes, including, for such purposes, the making of distributions to organizations that qualify as exempt organizations under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, or corresponding section of any future federal tax code. b. No part of the net earnings of the corporation shall inure to the benefit of, or be distributable to its members, trustees, officers, or other private persons, except that the corporation shall be authorized and empowered to pay reasonable compensation for services rendered and to make payments and distributions in furtherance of the purposes set forth in the purpose clause hereof. No substantial part of the activities of the corporation shall be the carrying on of propaganda, or otherwise attempting to influence legislation, and the corporation shall not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distribution of statements) any political campaign on behalf of any candidate for public office. Notwithstanding any other provision of this document, the corporation shall not carry on any other activities not permitted to be carried on (a) by a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, corresponding section of any future federal tax code, or (b) by a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code, or corresponding section of any future federal tax code.

There is nothing wrong with assisting people in need - but you - as a nonprofit - have a fiduciary duty to the public. And the public has a right to expect their donations are used appropriately.

Donations solicited for this purpose are used specifically for this purpose which has been fully disclosed to the public, therefore, we have absolutely acted within every appropriate fiduciary duty.

Unless your rescue is set up to conduct this type of loan/grant program - your request is most likely a violation. If this lady was fostering the horses for your rescue - your request would be perfectly legitimate.

Our rescue is now set up to provide charitable and general assistance to individuals and organizations regardless of who owns the horses we are assisting.

You may want to consult the IRS website and definitely consult your attorney before turning over any funds to this individual.Just because you disclose the activity to the public does not make it mission related.
I will say it again, no funds are being turned over to any individual, but to a veterinary practice which is licensed in the state of CA. But, if we choose to turn the funds over to Christine, this would absolutely be acceptable for our org to do as stated in our amended application, as well as our organizing documents. I did call the IRS today to make sure:)

Helping horses is in your mission statement -but in this case you are not helping the horse. You are paying a vet bill for someone who cannot pay it. By paying her bill, it frees up her personal finances, and imposes no obligation on her to repay you, to use her funds to care for the horses in her possession, or to refrain from obtaining more horses that she cannot feed or care for.

Again, refer to our organizing documents. We are indeed set up to make charitable contributions to orgs and individuals and in no way are they expected or required return said contributions.

There is no way for a donor to know - which is why donors rely on charities to set up internal processes with checks and balances - to make sure donor money is used wisely and the charity isn't taken advantage of.

The donor knows because we have outlined exactly what these solicitations are for. The donations received as well as the contributions we then in turn contribute to this cause will be disclosed on our annual 990 filings as required by law.

I hope that clears it up for you! I have no further time to explain it. I would be happy to furnish you copies of all our IRS filings if you request them for review.

[MVR]

Sigh....

I am NOT accusing anyone of pulling a fast one.

I am pointing out the fact that a charity cannot inure to the benefit of a private individual.

If people want to give the individual money, that is none of my business. What is illegal is what the OP proposes - run money through her charity, use the charity's status in a marketing plan and divide the money between her charity and a private individual, and/or use the status to help out a "friend".

This is illegal. Even if well-intentioned and innocent. I'm sorry.

And to clarify another misconception: All proceeds go to Dr Bill for candle sales. For each candle that is purchased, half the purchase price is ours to keep. The other half pays for the candles themselves. That is in fact what was meant by half the proceeds. MVR keeps nothing. I had never spoken to Christine prior to her asking for our help, and in no way do I know her personally or is she my "friend". Typically when we assist owners in need, its by making hay donations, feed donations, training or trailering services, accepting a horse into our programs etc. But even when we do a fundraiser to assist them, it is perfectly within our right to do so.

[JSwan]

And to clarify another misconception: All proceeds go to Dr Bill for candle sales. For each candle that is purchased, half the purchase price is ours to keep. The other half pays for the candles themselves. That is in fact what was meant by half the proceeds. MVR keeps nothing.

Then there is no doubt left. You are using your nonprofit status to benefit a private individual. No one may claim a tax deduction, that's for sure. The person who owns these horses is NOT a charity - she is a private individual.

If your charity owns the animals and she is fostering them - then the vet bill should be under your charity's name and donations should go directly to you.

If she owns the animals and you are trying to help out your friend by paying her vet bills and running donations through your charity that is NOT ok. That is the essence of private inurement. The very structure of this transaction is private inurement.

I'm very sorry. Perhaps you should consult the attorney who helped you set up your nonprofit so you can work out how to better accomplish your goal.

Best of luck to you. :)

[MVR]

Then there is no doubt left. You are using your nonprofit status to benefit a private individual. No one may claim a tax deduction, that's for sure. The person who owns these horses is NOT a charity - she is a private individual.

If your charity owns the animals and she is fostering them - then the vet bill should be under your charity's name and donations should go directly to you.

If she owns the animals and you are trying to help out your friend by paying her vet bills and running donations through your charity that is NOT ok. That is the essence of private inurement. The very structure of this transaction is private inurement.

I'm very sorry. Perhaps you should consult the attorney who helped you set up your nonprofit so you can work out how to better accomplish your goal.

Best of luck to you. :)

I don't know what you aren't getting about this:confused:- There is no private inurement here.

From the IRS EO website- Inurement/Private Benefit - Charitable Organizations
A section 501(c)(3) organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, such as the creator or the creator's family, shareholders of the organization, other designated individuals, or persons controlled directly or indirectly by such private interests. No part of the net earnings of a section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. A private shareholder or individual is a person having a personal and private interest in the activities of the organization.

Everyone who donates is indeed entitled to a tax donation receipt as specified by law. Our organizational documents allow us to assist by making contributions aligned with our proposed cause which is HORSE RESCUE AND REHAB. These funds are directly assisting a rescued horse with his rehab expenses. It does not specify the horse has to belong to our organization. I did every bit of this paperwork myself, I have no need to contact an attorney regarding the matter. Provided the contribution does not benefit our board members or trustees personally, it is still a charitable contribution fully allowed under our 501(c)3 status and I verified this today with the IRS over the phone. Once again she is not my friend, I had no prior involvement with her or the horse, buts its a horse in need and that is exactly what our organization is set up to do. ASSIST HORSES IN NEED. Being that this is what these funds are directly being contributed to, it is in every way legal and in compliance with our 501(c)3 paperwork.

[JSwan]

You need to consult an attorney specializing in nonprofit law. Many a charity has run afoul of this doctrine - which does not apply only to insiders. But I can assure you that what you are doing is inuring to the benefit of a private individual.

If part of your mission is to assist owners with veterinary expenses - you should have a loan or grant program set up so that the transactions are legitimate. Otherwise - it's a private benefit; not a public one. And you cannot issue a receipt when donors have directly paid the veterinary expenses of a private individual. "Private rescue" is not a charitable endeavor.

I worked in the nonprofit world for many years - and this issue is very real - even for large organizations. In outright, deferred and planned giving, as well as many other types of transactions; and many of them involving the public - not insiders. It can be complicated - so complicated that even large charities have made mistakes.

What you are proposing is not to help an animal in need - you are proposing to pay the bills of a private individual. That is not mission related. You are focusing on the horse - I am focusing on the transaction. The transaction is a private benefit - the way you are proposing to go about it.

Which is why I suggest you contact an attorney proficient in nonprofit law.

Again, best of luck to you. :)

[MVR]

You need to consult an attorney specializing in nonprofit law. Many a charity has run afoul of this doctrine - which does not apply only to insiders. But I can assure you that what you are doing is inuring to the benefit of a private individual.

If part of your mission is to assist owners with veterinary expenses - you should have a loan or grant program set up so that the transactions are legitimate. Otherwise - it's a private benefit; not a public one. And you cannot issue a receipt when donors have directly paid the veterinary expenses of a private individual. "Private rescue" is not a charitable endeavor.

I worked in the nonprofit world for many years - and this issue is very real - even for large organizations. In outright, deferred and planned giving, as well as many other types of transactions; and many of them involving the public - not insiders. It can be complicated - so complicated that even large charities have made mistakes.

What you are proposing is not to help an animal in need - you are proposing to pay the bills of a private individual. That is not mission related. You are focusing on the horse - I am focusing on the transaction. The transaction is a private benefit - the way you are proposing to go about it.

Which is why I suggest you contact an attorney proficient in nonprofit law.

Again, best of luck to you. :)

For the very last time- our paperwork for the IRS was approved to do just this type of thing. It does not have to be a grant or a loan. Perhaps you need to review current tax law for EO guidelines. A lot of things have changed since just last year. Our planned and present activities as outlined in Narrative Description of Your Activities- which is attachment Part IV states:

Part IV Narrative Description of Your Activities
Mountain View Rescue, Inc. 26-1441760


In the past we have operated a horse rescue & rehabilitation facility, taking in any equine in need that we had space & resources to properly provide for. These equines are described as being neglected, unwanted, slaughter bound, mistreated, abused or misunderstood. These horses are then evaluated, fully rehabilitated and trained to their best suited disciplines. They are then placed in pre-approved adoptive homes. If suitable homes can not be found, we house said horses at our facility in a sanctuary type program.


Presently we are operating under the same guidelines/ principles as stated above. In addition, our organization has also put together informational & educational materials to provide to the general public regarding basic horse care, slaughter bound horses, and horse rescue related issues. We have active fundraisers and also attend fairs and events with, as well as without, our equines. Also, our organization is implementing programs to assist individual horse owners in times of financial distress by directly contributing hay, feed, or monetary contributions towards outstanding veterinary bills or procedures. Our organization will on occasion fund raise for the benefit of needy horses not owned by our corporation.


This has been accepted by the IRS in our 1023 application. I do not know how much clearer it can get.

[JSwan]

]


This has been accepted by the IRS in our 1023 application. I do not know how much clearer it can get.

What procedures do you have in place to process loan or grant applications? How does one submit an application, and what sort of documentation do they have to provide to substantiate their claim of financial distress? Tax records? Pay stubs?

Also - in the case you mention it appears the person is purposefully acquiring horses she cannot care for, and has been for some time. This does not appear to be a person in distress - this appears to be a person who is running a "private rescue" - which is the term YOU used to describe her activities.

In which case - this is not a horse owner in financial distress - this is an attempt to subvert the IRS regulations to unjustly enrich a person who is engaging in her personal hobby and wishes to use tax exempt donations to pay for it.

It's still inuring to the benefit of a private individual. I'd very much like to see exactly what sort of application process and procedures your rescue has for determining which owner is in financial distress - I'd also like to see how your rescue prevents owners from hoarding or taking advantage of the rescue to subsidize their horse activities. Because if you're paying people's vet bills - I also engage in "private rescue" and I have almost 10K of vet bills I'd like to be reimbursed for. ;)

Thanks.

Nothing personal but I'm tired of donating to causes only to find out later that the nonprofit was playing fast and loose with IRS regs. And while I don't doubt your good intent - funneling donor money through a nonprofit to pay for someone's personal hobby/pursuit is just not appropriate.

[EqTrainer]

Hey... sign me up then, too. Because I sure have A LOT of rescue horse bills, and have no doubt they will just keep coming. While you are at it, how about signing Maple Shade up for your individualized donation program? She does a ton of rescue and never says a peep about it. I think this sounds just lovely... :lol:

Seriously now. I think you should call your lawyer. This is the essence of shady. Not saying that is your intention but the IRS does not care what your intentions were... only what you did.

[MVR]

What procedures do you have in place to process loan or grant applications? How does one submit an application, and what sort of documentation do they have to provide to substantiate their claim of financial distress? Tax records? Pay stubs?

Also - in the case you mention it appears the person is purposefully acquiring horses she cannot care for, and has been for some time. This does not appear to be a person in distress - this appears to be a person who is running a "private rescue" - which is the term YOU used to describe her activities.

In which case - this is not a horse owner in financial distress - this is an attempt to subvert the IRS regulations to unjustly enrich a person who is engaging in her personal hobby and wishes to use tax exempt donations to pay for it.

It's still inuring to the benefit of a private individual. I'd very much like to see exactly what sort of application process and procedures your rescue has for determining which owner is in financial distress - I'd also like to see how your rescue prevents owners from hoarding or taking advantage of the rescue to subsidize their horse activities. Because if you're paying people's vet bills - I also engage in "private rescue" and I have almost 10K of vet bills I'd like to be reimbursed for. ;)

Thanks.

Nothing personal but I'm tired of donating to causes only to find out later that the nonprofit was playing fast and loose with IRS regs. And while I don't doubt your good intent - funneling donor money through a nonprofit to pay for someone's personal hobby/pursuit is just not appropriate.

Our board of directors meets, reviews outstanding bills, medical history, etc of each horse who needs assistance, as well as bank and payroll info from each individual. Funding/hay/feed is granted on the basis of each individual case. Only after a board review & vote are any donations made or any fundraisers organized.

Nothing personal, but I'm tired of having to explain this to you when you clearly have no concept of the 1023 application, or any organizing documents for that matter. You keep running over the same old ground here...I have explained that you are incorrect and proved so w/ several documents, & I also called the IRS to be sure. It is not my responsibility to teach or explain tax law to you. If you need further explanation of our history, organizational documents, or what is or isn't permitted under our 501(c) 3 status, call the IRS yourself. Our Tax ID is listed above on our Narrative.

Many organizations have these types of programs available. Seems to me that if you are so well versed in non-profit inter workings, you would know this. Here are just a few I know of off the top of my head.
http://stalliontogeldingsupport.org/
http://www.kentuckyhorse.org/safety_net.shtml

Now, you are trying to tell me that we are all operating illegally? We can't assist private horse owners in need? YOU ARE WRONG! We filed our paperwork in order to reflect these activities and it was passed and granted 501(c)3 status by the IRS for us to do so. Get over it already! I have better things to do that argue this moot point with you. If you don't feel comfortable donating to this cause, by all means don't. But do not lecture me about the legality of our organization. I am founder, treasurer and president of our org, I filed all this paperwork myself, and understand completely what it means for our org. My time is valuable, I'm not wasting any more of it on this issue. Its freaking candles for pete's sake, for a sick horse who needs help. If you don't want to sell or buy one- don't!

[millwrightmomma]

Having heards this arguement on the ABR board, one thing pops to my mind instantly.
I don't care who pays for what, legally or illegally, IRS or whatever.

The ABR board raised$$ to send 2 mares and a stud colt to Meduna's hell hole.
A person that owned them, at the time couldn't afford the trip herself, but what bothers me is they went in February, and the place was never checked on.
What rescue sends horses anywhere without a check????

Less than 10 weeks later, the SH%T starts to hit the fan, and the 3 horses are removed, the colt is in the worst shape........
How long were they out, before the authorities were notified, one day, 2 days, one week!!!!
How many horses died before anyone found out what had happened, on three strikes, before the owner of these three spilled the beans???
How long were they gone before Jill Starr and Jerry finch arrived on the scene??

The owner made the choice to send them.
The owner brought them back.
The owner should be responsible.

[JSwan]

But I do know how nonprofits are supposed to operate, and you don't need to explain tax law to me - I am trying to explain it to you. Most of my working life was spent working in the nonprofit arena. I worked for one of the largest nonprofits in the world that ran afoul of this doctrine - though dozens of lawyers did their best to ensure we didn't. While I never ran afoul of this doctrine it was uppermost in my mind when doing my job - and the issue came up frequently.

Which is why I know that funneling donations to pay for "private" rescue is a private benefit.

Your story has changed several times. First you know the people, then you don't. First it's "private rescue" then it's an "owner in financial distress".

I don't care how you filled out the paperwork. The way you have phrased your intentions in your posts lead me to believe you are not assisting owners in desperate circumstances - you are subsidizing what almost appears to be animal hoarding and irresponsible private "rescues" shipping animals willy nilly to God knows what hell hole.

You'll forgive me if this does not inspire confidence in me. In fact, these stories are becoming more common I'm starting to think there needs to be an IRS crackdown - nationally.







Nothing personal, but I'm tired of having to explain this to you when you clearly have no concept of the 1023 application, or any organizing documents for that matter. You keep running over the same old ground here...I have explained that you are incorrect and proved so w/ several documents, & I also called the IRS to be sure. It is not my responsibility to teach or explain tax law to you. I

[MVR]

But I do know how nonprofits are supposed to operate, and you don't need to explain tax law to me - I am trying to explain it to you. Most of my working life was spent working in the nonprofit arena. I worked for one of the largest nonprofits in the world that ran afoul of this doctrine - though dozens of lawyers did their best to ensure we didn't. While I never ran afoul of this doctrine it was uppermost in my mind when doing my job - and the issue came up frequently.

Just because you worked for a non-profit does not in any way qualify you to tell me how ours works. I do not need explanation from you on how our org is set up to operate. Each org is set up differently and I am well aware of how ours is to operate. Because you ran afoul does not mean we are or will. Again, if you in fact knew what you were reading when I posted all this info, you would be well aware of this by now.

Your story has changed several times. First you know the people, then you don't. First it's "private rescue" then it's an "owner in financial distress".

No, Jswan, my story has never changed, you just keep twisting it to fit the misconstrued view of how YOU want to see it. Perhaps if you read, very carefully this time, you will find that in fact the story has been the very same all along...

I don't care how you filled out the paperwork. The way you have phrased your intentions in your posts lead me to believe you are not assisting owners in desperate circumstances - you are subsidizing what almost appears to be animal hoarding and irresponsible private "rescues" shipping animals willy nilly to God knows what hell hole.

If you don't care how I filed our paperwork...why have I spent the last week hashing this out with you? :confused: You have nothing better to do? This woman was unbeknown to me or anyone on our board before posting on a forum I am a member of asking for help. We reviewed her documents(like anyone else asking for help) and the board decided to sell candles to fundraise for Dr. Bill's medical expenses. The horse is sick and needs help PERIOD. There is no big conspiracy here JSwan, no inurement, no violation, no anything you have so wrongly accused us of. This is what we do, if you don't like it, too bad. Don't support it. Thats your choice, but DO NOT keep running your mouth spewing ridiculous claims of illegality's. Do you not understand that in this day & age we (as non-profits) are having a hard enough time finding support and we don't need half baked conceptions being thrown out to the public as truths. Do you not understand the damaging effects this has on organizations? And when you finally figure out you're wrong, then start pointing the finger at the "private rescue" involved. We were private, hell, I privately rescued horses for 15 years before becoming a 501(c)3. I'm sure there are many members of this board who do so as well. Does that make us all irresponsible, hoarding scamers now JSwan? People make mistakes, I and our board believe this woman ha learned from hers and we want to help this young horse. Shame on you that you have nothing better to do than try to hamper a LEGITIMATE fundraiser for a HORSE IN NEED.

You'll forgive me if this does not inspire confidence in me. In fact, these stories are becoming more common I'm starting to think there needs to be an IRS crackdown - nationally.

No, beg pardon, but I don't forgive you. I think if you have all this time to be arguing the facts of our organization's defining documents, you could have sold a hell of a lot of candles. Perhaps if you focused on ways to actually help instead of hinder, I'd have a different opinion.

I think there needs to be an IRS crackdown too...you have no idea how many times I have said that. Too bad you can't focus on orgs actually in violation. What a waste. Sorry, but I have tried to be respectful and professional and address all your concerns. Now I see that you are only arguing for the sake of arguing, and I have no time or inclination to engage you further in it.

[BabyGreen]

What did you do to JSWAN, say something rude about the rodeo?

[JSwan]

No, beg pardon, but I don't forgive you. I think if you have all this time to be arguing the facts of our organization's defining documents, you could have sold a hell of a lot of candles. Perhaps if you focused on ways to actually help instead of hinder, I'd have a different opinion.




And what you don't seem to realize is that I'm not attempting to hinder. And since I did work in this field for many years - I recognize what you're trying to do but think it is problematic.

Your status as a nonprofit isn't in question - I question what you're doing with the funds you solicit. That is my right as a consumer and as a donor. When I consider writing a check to a group I've NEVER heard of - and then find out what has been going on behind the scenes and am appalled - I have the right to criticize and question.

If you don't like it - tough. Would you rather have a few measly candles sold or satisfy a potential donor to the point that she's ready to write a larger check? You are nowhere near me - all I have to go on is the godawful scenario on ABR and the resulting mess - and now all this crap about "private rescues" and charities I've never heard of. Donors have EVERY right to question.

But do whatever floats your boat. I'll donate elsewhere.

[MVR]

[QUOTE=JSwan;4124699]And what you don't seem to realize is that I'm not attempting to hinder. And since I did work in this field for many years - I recognize what you're trying to do but think it is problematic.

And since you can't seem to recognize that our org was set up to do this, apparently whatever field you worked in you did not familiarize yourself with the type of organizing documents we filed. Whether or not you think it may be problematic does not affect the IRS approval or standing. You as a consumer have the right to choose. You as the consumer do not have the right to tell us or the IRS how to conduct our business. Again, if you have a problem with it, call the IRS.

Your status as a nonprofit isn't in question - I question what you're doing with the funds you solicit. That is my right as a consumer and as a donor. When I consider writing a check to a group I've NEVER heard of - and then find out what has been going on behind the scenes and am appalled - I have the right to criticize and question.

I have answered EVERY one of your questions...yet we are still having this conversation because?...

Behind what scenes? Everything is of public record. Its on my website just the same as it is here, there and everywhere. I'm sure you know since you are so well versed in the non-profit world, that any and all our documents are of public record. Read them. There is nothing behind any scene. That is one thing as president that I pride myself of with ALL aspects of our org. Its all open book. Try again.

If you don't like it - tough. Would you rather have a few measly candles sold or satisfy a potential donor to the point that she's ready to write a larger check? You are nowhere near me - all I have to go on is the godawful scenario on ABR and the resulting mess - and now all this crap about "private rescues" and charities I've never heard of. Donors have EVERY right to question.

The problem is, you started this debate fully aware that you weren't going to buy, sell candles, or write a check. I have done every possible thing to "satisfy" you and yet you are still not satisfied. Should I break out the hoops of fire? I have nothing to do w/ ABR, I am not a member of that board. So I'm not sure what godawful mess you are referring to. Our org had nothing to do with whatever you are referring to I assure you.

But do whatever floats your boat. I'll donate elsewhere.

I hope you do and in the future don't waste the valuable time of the officers of the non-profit org and IRS in the process.

ETA: Oh and you never answered me about the other 2 non-profit links I put up that contribute to privately owned horses. Are they in violation too? I would also love the opportunity to tell you that we just received an ASPCA grant for our 2009 Hay Bank Project, that directly provides individual horse owners in times of need w/ high quality horse hay though our org. I suppose the ASPCA is now in violation as well?

[MVR]

What did you do to JSWAN, say something rude about the rodeo?

No, JSwan can not admit when JSwan is wrong... JSwan thinks that because JSwan worked for a non-profit this makes JSwan an authority on how every non-profit in the country is set up to operate.

[JSwan]

[QUOTE]


I hope you do and in the future don't waste the valuable time of the officers of the non-profit org and IRS in the process.

Oh dear God that is just priceless.

And I was interested in donating - but I always carefully check out rescues that solicit on this BB. I can think of a few that are class acts.

[MVR]

[QUOTE=MVR;4124799]

Oh dear God that is just priceless.

And I was interested in donating - but I always carefully check out rescues that solicit on this BB. I can think of a few that are class acts.

You never answered me about the other 2 non-profit links I put up that contribute to privately owned horses. Are they in violation too? I would also love the opportunity to tell you that we just received an ASPCA grant for our 2009 Hay Bank Project, that directly provides individual horse owners in times of need w/ high quality horse hay though our org. I suppose the ASPCA is now in violation as well?

[BabyGreen]

Going to donate, JSwan? Sure you were. If she bent down and kissed you on the nether parts, you wouldn't donate.

That's the biggest pain about running a non-profit---dealing with cranks and people with Napoleon complexes.

[harveyhorses]

What really bothers me is it seems you can set your own standards for 'who' you support.
We rescued 4 horses over a span of years, all but one were started with calls from our vet asking if we could afford to rehab them. If we had not I'm not sure what would have happened. So we could have put our hands out and been helped out? Or did we not 'qualify'?
It is the owners responsiblity. If they can't afford it I am not about to subsidize them. Good luck.
ASPCA GRANT

[mp]

That's the biggest pain about running a non-profit---dealing with cranks and people with Napoleon complexes.

Then there is the pain of dealing with non-profit employees/directors who have no clue about how to present themselves to the public. Exhibit A is a group I tried to help for several years before I finally gave up. Going by her posts here, I'd say MVR could be Exhibit B.

[MVR]

What really bothers me is it seems you can set your own standards for 'who' you support.
We rescued 4 horses over a span of years, all but one were started with calls from our vet asking if we could afford to rehab them. If we had not I'm not sure what would have happened. So we could have put our hands out and been helped out? Or did we not 'qualify'?
It is the owners responsiblity. If they can't afford it I am not about to subsidize them. Good luck.
ASPCA GRANT

Did you ask for help? If you don't ask, guess what... you don't receive.

You are absolutely right, it is the owners responsibility. We try to offer assistance to owners responsible enough to realize they need help and responsible enough to ask. We feel that this is a much better option than finding their horses half dead and dying of starvation and disease or being abandoned at sales, recreational areas, or on the side of the highway because they can not afford to feed them that month or can not afford to give them the vet care they need. Yes, we have taken in MANY like that. Visit our website, you'll be surprised.

So instead of helping to feed and properly vet these animals, what do you suggest be done to improve the care for these needy horses? Please do not say slaughter:eek:

[harveyhorses]

Vet bills are piling up and they are not a 501c3 rescue, just private at this time. So MVR decided to step in and help!

Your words.


NOT the 'owner' the rescuer. Don't rescue if you can't afford the unknown.
It is risky. So let the 'public' rescues have the horse.

[chaltagor]

That's the biggest pain about running a non-profit---dealing with cranks and people with Napoleon complexes.

Running this public non-profit would be a wonderful job, if it wasn't for the public!

(Apologies to Basil Fawlty.)


Personally, I would think the biggest pain would be not being able to help every animal I could, but that's just me, selfless to the core.

[AnotherRound]

You sound pretty clueless, MVR, or are you being purposefully obtuse? You sound more interested in badmouthing the people who are questioning your practices than sorting out the legalities of what you are doing. I am not donating for the benefit of private individuals. I don't care what energy you have applied to how many issues in your life, you aren't paying attention to the legalities of what you are doing, and if you think its hard to hear potential donors question you, try justifying yourself to the IRS and lawyers. It seems like you're sore that you aren't selling your candles and thought everyone would fall soft-hearted and tearful in line, but as you pointed out, this is a tough economy, and thinking individuals are looking very carefully at where they put their donations and how they are used, and your outlined use of these funds is unacceptable.

The horses need to go to a rescue, not another owner who can't afford their upkeep and medical bills.

[certifiedgirl]

Vet bills are piling up and they are not a 501c3 rescue, just private at this time. So MVR decided to step in and help!

Your words.


NOT the 'owner' the rescuer. Don't rescue if you can't afford the unknown.
It is risky. So let the 'public' rescues have the horse.


I just don't see the problem with a rescue assisting a horse owner. We have Ripley's Horse Aid Foundation here in Wa and that is what they do. They give vouchers for hay and have even paid for euthanasia when the owner is unable to.

I think its better to help someone through a temporary issue than have yet another horse dumped on the rescues that are already overloaded- if they owner's are sincere and really just needing a little help I would rather do that than have rescues taking in every horse and having to turn away the AC seizures and neglect cases because they made an individual sign over their horse due to an unforseen vet bill.

Basically the "public" rescues are pretty full already.

[Sithly]

I don't know you either, but after reading this thread, I wouldn't even consider donating to you. You don't seem to understand why your policies might be problematic, and your response to criticism is appalling.

Ugh, what a turn-off.

[MVR]

You sound pretty clueless, MVR, or are you being purposefully obtuse? You sound more interested in badmouthing the people who are questioning your practices than sorting out the legalities of what you are doing. I am not donating for the benefit of private individuals. I don't care what energy you have applied to how many issues in your life, you aren't paying attention to the legalities of what you are doing, and if you think its hard to hear potential donors question you, try justifying yourself to the IRS and lawyers. It seems like you're sore that you aren't selling your candles and thought everyone would fall soft-hearted and tearful in line, but as you pointed out, this is a tough economy, and thinking individuals are looking very carefully at where they put their donations and how they are used, and your outlined use of these funds is unacceptable.

The horses need to go to a rescue, not another owner who can't afford their upkeep and medical bills.

Unacceptable by who's standards exactly? Not the IRS, not anyone on our board, who then? I am done arguing the legalities of the situation. If you, or anyone for that matter, can not understand that this is part of the activities our org was set up to do, it was approved by the IRS, then what else can I say? Call the IRS. Once again it is not my job nor responsibility to teach this to the general public. I learned it through a lot of time and hard work. I know what we are doing is 100% within our structured activities approved under our 1023 application. Um, guess what, I already did justify everything our org does to the IRS. We officially incorporated in 2007. I just filed our application paperwork in January 2009. I justified 2 years of operation prior to my application.

The horse is at a rescue. Its not 501(c)3, that does not make it unacceptable either. Public & private rescues alike are full. Rescues can not take every horse from every situation all the time.

I did no bad mouthing of anyone...trust me when I say I sure want to:yes: Now, I could call you clueless as you have called me, I could say a lot of things about you or anyone who doesn't seem to be able to comprehend what they are reading as they apparently still DO NOT FREAKING GET IT, but I didn't and I won't. What good would that do AnotherRound?

We haven't even started selling the candles yet...I swear! Its easy for you judge me, to judge Christine, to point the finger and then turn your back. Guess what, when we leave the computer, its still there!The horses still have needs, the bills still have to be paid, the grants written, the IRS filings made on time, volunteers supervised ,etc. Forgive me if I get a bit frustrated by people trying to cram legalities that they know NOTHING about down my throat while I am at my day job (yes, I have to work as our org is 100% volunteer-) so I can put in half the salary I make a year to keep the rescue afloat, while trying to write grants for the rescue, and trying to help a fellow rescuer with a sick horse, while still trying to juggle what shreds of a personal life I may be able to keep. Please crucify me now because I just can't seem to find the patience to continue to repeat myself over and over for absolutely no reason to begin with.

[hitchinmygetalong]

I did no bad mouthing of anyone...trust me when I say I sure want to:yes: Now, I could call you clueless as you have called me, I could say a lot of things about you or anyone who doesn't seem to be able to comprehend what they are reading as they apparently still DO NOT FREAKING GET IT, but I didn't and I won't. What good would that do AnotherRound?

<snip>

Forgive me if I get a bit frustrated by people trying to cram legalities that they know NOTHING about down my throat

So, if posters disagree with you, they "do not freaking get it"?

And if you are referring to JSwan as the one who is "trying to cram legalities that they know NOTHING about" --- I have to tell you that JSwan has convinced me that you are not anyone I would want to be dealing with. You come across on this board as short-tempered and very much "my way or the highway".

IF I was ever moved to donate money to aid someone with their vet bills, I would be writing a check to the vet clinic that they are working with. Period. I would never go through a third party. Ever.

Your motive seems to be pure, but your method is wrong.

I hope your friend's horse recovers.

[MVR]

Running this public non-profit would be a wonderful job, if it wasn't for the public!

(Apologies to Basil Fawlty.)


AMEN! LOL Isn't that fitting:winkgrin:

Personally, I would think the biggest pain would be not being able to help every animal I could, but that's just me, selfless to the core.

This is exactly why we started programs like these. We can only house 12 horses at any given time. The rescues both public and private are jam packed and turning horses away. Others are overcrowding to the point that it has become evident they are not helping horses, but in fact increasing the suffering of the animals in their care. This is a way we can ensure to offer at least some assistance to horses in need even though we don't have the space to house them.

[MVR]

I don't know you either, but after reading this thread, I wouldn't even consider donating to you. You don't seem to understand why your policies might be problematic, and your response to criticism is appalling.

Ugh, what a turn-off.

There are many types of horse rescues & rehab centers all over the country. Each is set up individually to operate how they see fit, under specific IRS rulings. By all means choose one you agree with. YOU may find it problematic to help horses in need not owned by our rescue, the IRS, our board and many others do not. I am human as well. Criticism is one thing, facts are another. Its ok to criticize me personally, criticize a horse in need, criticize the person who has him, criticize our org for trying to assist horses, but its not ok for me to criticize the blatant misconstrued BS posted only after trying for a week to get the point across regarding the FACTS pertaining to our orgs policies and approved actives? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so they say. I will not be anyone's doormat, not will I allow our org or any of the horses in it to be either. Donate where you will! As long as you are giving to horses in need, you are accomplishing our goals 100%

[MVR]

So, if posters disagree with you, they "do not freaking get it"? Um, no, they can disagree all they want. The facts are the facts whether or not they agree...

And if you are referring to JSwan as the one who is "trying to cram legalities that they know NOTHING about" --- I have to tell you that JSwan has convinced me that you are not anyone I would want to be dealing with. You come across on this board as short-tempered and very much "my way or the highway". Short tempered? LOL- well, I though I did rather well after a week of it! I really just wanted to post a series of beeps! @#%**&^!@ :cool:Seriously, I did not mean to offend anyone, I do appreciate everyone's concerns, but I know what is and isn't allowed by the IRS when it comes to our activities. It took me over 9 months to complete our application. I know it and EVERY organizing document like the back of my hand. I spent countless hours on the IRS website, talking to IRS agents, as well as our CPA. Forgive me when I get a bit miffed that after so much time & hard work that I in essence get treated like an idiot who is bumbling along & has no freaking clue WTH I am doing. Thats not the case and being that I have invested so much of myself into this, I take it very personally. Perhaps I need to learn not to.

It is board decision, not my way, bu the way of majority rule. But yes, in essence, what the board says goes. Thats only to protect the horses we work so hard to save.

IF I was ever moved to donate money to aid someone with their vet bills, I would be writing a check to the vet clinic that they are working with. Period. I would never go through a third party. Ever.
I'm glad to hear you would, I encourage that tremendously.

Your motive seems to be pure, but your method is wrong.

I hope your friend's horse recovers.
Thank you very much.

[MVR]

I just don't see the problem with a rescue assisting a horse owner. We have Ripley's Horse Aid Foundation here in Wa and that is what they do. They give vouchers for hay and have even paid for euthanasia when the owner is unable to.

I think its better to help someone through a temporary issue than have yet another horse dumped on the rescues that are already overloaded- if they owner's are sincere and really just needing a little help I would rather do that than have rescues taking in every horse and having to turn away the AC seizures and neglect cases because they made an individual sign over their horse due to an unforseen vet bill.

Basically the "public" rescues are pretty full already.

Thank you! I had talked w/ a fellow rescuer in WA who was telling me about Ripleys. I think that is great. Our horse council has been helpful here, but the council is not set up to be a charity per say, its more to promote equine business and activity of any sort in the state. I would love to see a program like Ripley's started here. We just don't have the time or manpower to invest right now, we are starting slow w/ the hay back program and seeing where that goes.

[mp]

I have invested so much of myself into this, I take it very personally. Perhaps I need to learn not to.

:yes: That's exactly what you need to do.

You sound like a good-hearted, hardworking person. But you have to realize that your dream of doing good and how you're going to achieve it won't necessarily jibe with that of other good-hearted, hardworking people who share your concerns (aka potential donors).

The fact that your original post didn't generate much interest should have been clue that the course you want to take -- however well-intentioned -- didn't ring a whole lot of bells with people on this board. And then the questioning (although I don't think anyone accused you of doing anything unethical) about what you're doing made you feel defensive. Fair enough.

But try to keep the frustration to yourself and don't vent it in public. The people I know who are involved in nonprofits and fund raising do a whole lot of smiling and nodding. And at least half the time they're thinking things like "I've covered that -- a milion times ... You really don't know what you're talking about ... oh STFU." ;)

Difficult, but part of the "job."

Good luck with your mission and I hope the horse in question recovers. I wish I could help, but my equine-related donations all go to a local therapeutic riding center. That's my "cause."

[BabyGreen]

Just ignore JSwan, who appears to believe that anyone trying to help mustangs is part of a vast liberal-socialist-gay conspiracy to rob true Americans of their heritage/and-or right to turn them into dog food as punishment for grazing on "their" public land.

[MVR]

:yes: That's exactly what you need to do.

You sound like a good-hearted, hardworking person. But you have to realize that your dream of doing good and how you're going to achieve it won't necessarily jibe with that of other good-hearted, hardworking people who share your concerns (aka potential donors).

The fact that your original post didn't generate much interest should have been clue that the course you want to take -- however well-intentioned -- didn't ring a whole lot of bells with people on this board. And then the questioning (although I don't think anyone accused you of doing anything unethical) about what you're doing made you feel defensive. Fair enough.

But try to keep the frustration to yourself and don't vent it in public. The people I know who are involved in nonprofits and fund raising do a whole lot of smiling and nodding. And at least half the time they're thinking things like "I've covered that -- a milion times ... You really don't know what you're talking about ... oh STFU." ;)

Difficult, but part of the "job."

Good luck with your mission and I hope the horse in question recovers. I wish I could help, but my equine-related donations all go to a local therapeutic riding center. That's my "cause."

Point taken:) Thanks so much for understanding, I will try to improve my smiling and nodding skills...not one of my strong points...yet:D

[Riva]

I don't believe JSwan was doing anything of the sort. JS was trying to give MVR information. Information which she is very well aquainted with. MVR should've been pleased to have someone with so much knowledge trying to help.

No one said MVR's motives or intentions were wrong. Personally, I think we need people who care as much as MVR about these horses, but when dealing with the public, you need to keep a calmer demeanor and think about your responses a bit more.

If she did not want to take JS's advice, MVR could've just smiled, nodded and said "bless your heart" and gone about her business as she feels fit. Probably would've given people a better impression of her too.

Good luck with saving the ponies!

[Moderator 1]

Plenty of information has been provided from various sources and readers can make their decision if this is a charitable effort they want to support.

We are not going devote further moderation efforts to the thread, as solicitations from charities are permitted at our discretion.

Thanks,
Mod 1