Horse too short?

[Sacred_Petra]

I's a lot harder buying a horse when you're not buying from your trainer... go figure... :rolleyes:
So, as I'm getting deeper into the horse market, how do I decide if a horse is too small, especially if I can't get on them and "feel" whether they're too small or not. I've always liked bigger horses (the jumps look so much smaller), but since I'll be competing western as well as english for the next couple of years, I'm rethinking wanting a 17hh TB or WB. The horse doesn't have to be super stellar at western, but I might lose points in versatility ranch horse if I a.) can't get on from the ground and b.) tower above everybody else. ;)

I'm mainly asking because I found a 2003 Quarter Horse stallion who's a more english type than stock type (although not as uphill as ideal, but more like an apendix than a QH), is well inside my price range, is really close by, has fairly nice gaits, and exploits my weakness for unusual colors, but, he's only 14.3hh. I'm 5'6" and on the curvier side. I know in western horses run shorter, but is 14.3hh and approximately 1000 lbs going to be too small for me riding dressage and low-level eventing? If so, what is the minimum height I should be looking at?

ETA: I'll be getting my trainer's opinion on the horse as well, in terms of his movement and possible physical limitations, but if he's going to be too small, I'd rather spend her time (and my money) looking at more suitable horses. It'll be hard to get her opinion on size because although she has jumper training (and has a really good eye for athletic talent in a horse) she rides barrel racers and comes from the "more compact is better" school of thought (her horses are almost all under 14hh). In answer to BuddyRoo, yes he appears to have decent suspension. He's not going to compete with a warmblood for suspension, but he moves more like an apendix than a stock type.

[BuddyRoo]

It's not the size as much as the stride for the low level jumping. My 14 3 QH cross mare can make the stride but it's a push. XC wouldn't be of concern to me (lower level). Dressage? Any suspension there? IME, a lot of stock breeds just don't have it.

If I were in your shoes and had a trainer already, I'd ask the trainer to take a look (and pay him/her for their time) because it would really suck to end up with a horse and come to find out in a month's time that you picked one that cannot accomplish what you want to due to physical limitations.

Also...stallion. You have your own place? Most of the boarding places around here won't allow stallions.

[Festivity]

I am probably not the best one to ask about short horses. :) I am ~5'6", long and skinny, and I will be riding my 14.2 hand (on a tall day) arab gelding at the woodside horse trial this weekend. I like short, it means I don't have as far to fall or climb back up on.

[Ambrey]

A 1,000 lb 14.3 hh horse is going to fill out your leg quite nicely, if you're worried how you'll look :) Tall people don't look nearly as tall on a wide horse as on a narrow one!

[asterix]

My friend just moved her 14.3 (on a GOOD day) hand Lippizaner cross up to Training eventing the other week. He has scope to spare and lovely movement. She's probably 5'6" and normal build, does not look big on him. She has said that he requires a VERY precise ride in stadium because she can easily throw him out of whack, but he's plenty athletic.

Why can't you ride him before you buy him??? I'd want to be VERY cautious about buying a stallion that you had not had ample chance to handle and ride -- there are stallions that are easy for amateurs to handle and many, many more that are not.

[Sacred_Petra]

Festivity, you bring up a good point about having less distance to fall.;) Also, I'm glad to hear that horses that short can do Training level eventing. He should certainly be able to get me around a beginner novice course then.
As for the horses I can't ride first, I was talking more about the CANTER OTTBs, and some the horses I'm looking at that are barely started under saddle.

[goodhors]

Really hard to have one horse and expect winning rides from such different disciplines. Barrels, jumping, dressage? Any Pleasure riding classes as well? Some of these will fit him better than others, his build, muscling, will limit him regardless of which way you go.

Horse sounds capable for the Western, you will have to ride him to see if you can get reach for the English stuff. Also going to have to find out if he will tolerate rein contact you need for doing correct English riding, not the AQHA English stuff, unless that is where you will be showing.

Does he have to remain a stallion or is gelding part of the plan? Any good stallion can make a great gelding! I would not worry about his height, if he is good in all the other areas. He should use up your leg length. I see so many folks on huge horses, just because they won't look at anything under 16H. Horse is too big, they look silly. Shorter horses can have a LOT of talent, be fast for the jobs you want, need the agility in. They also jump well, if schooled and like the jumping. Heights are not that big, even for a smaller animal. We have a national "height" problem in our minds when buying horses for adults. Even Pony Club, a kid over 10 MUST have a HORSE of at least 15H, but the kid is only 4.5ft tall, weighs 75pounds! Just a mindset everyone doing English has.

I love a horse who "can do" in multiple classes at the shows. Used to be quite common, but now most horses are specialists.

[HenryisBlaisin']

My horse Henry is 15hh on his best day (i.e. with shoes on and the day before the farrier comes so his feet are at their longest. And if he stands on tiptoe and stretches up as hard as he can.) I'm 5'5" and a bit er, womanly. He takes up my leg and then some. He can keep up with the bigger horses on the trails and pops over anything in the way. I also haven't done dressage tests with him yet, but I have done dressage suitability-at one show came second to a horse already at second level and beat some big warmbloods in the process. He was the smallest horse in the arena. The only horse within a hand of his size was the horse that won, who is 15.2. He's also won against some nice TB/WB types in HUS classes. If he's a nice horse and a quality mover, he's going to be fine for you regardless of size. If he is a poor mover, he could be 17.3 and would still be a poor mover.

[asterix]

Petra, google Theodore O'Connor if you are wondering whether, generically, "short" horses can do Training eventing...
http://www.oconnoreventteam.com/new/teddyrolex07.html

[Ltc4h]

I have a barn full of these tweens, I love that size.
14,14.1,14.3,15.0,15.2 hands
Most are QH's and most O'lena, Colonel Freckles, Hollywood bloodlines
They are working horses, and extremely smart and versatile.
2 are Reining trained and also show 3rd level Dressage, those disciplines are very similiar if ridden correctly. Both of these rein in a curb and flat in a happy mouth to adjust for the rein pressure difference.
1- O'lena 14.3 mare is fantastic in the 4' Jumpers and Events
All of them are trained to drive as well
Someone already said about Teddy in Eventing, and Sport ponies are all the rage in Dressage. Some of the heavier builds are hard to get to elevate and come from behind, but more than make up for it in their lateral work.

[avezan]

I'm 5'8" and I evented a 14.2 (carded) full blooded QH. She could jump the moon, make the distances and her dressage was to die for. She even got a 9 on one movement in our first dressage test (mine too, I had no idea that was significant at the time. My instructor told me to frame the test) Many people would question her breed after a dressage test. Just standing around, though, she definitely looked like a stock horse. When I lived in Texas, the cowboys drooled over her. I think she would have been good at western events. So, don't let the size or the breed deter you. Evaluate all the other qualities you are looking for in a horse.

[Beverley]

I'm 5'7" and my 4 yo qh mare is oh, maybe almost 14.3 at the withers, now. She was 14.1 when I bought her a year ago. Even then- plenty of horse under me, she keeps up with my 16.2 appendix at all gaits and in pics folks have taken of me riding her, really doesn't look like a pony with a too big rider.

And I can tell you that in 10 years, she's going to look a whole lot better than my 16.2 guy when puttering around the countryside without benefit of mounting blocks or cheater stirrups.

One of the best cutting mares ever, ridden by a man over 6 feet tall, was 13.2 in her prime.

Edited to add- whenever I take her anywhere, big, grown men would be happy to have her if I'd sell.

[Sacred_Petra]

So apparently I suffer from the "my horse must be a giant and require a ladder to mount" mentality.
That was great info on Theodore O'Connor! If Karen O'Connor (not that I'm comparing myself to her) manages not to seem too tall on an 850 lb pony, I think I'll be okay on a 1000 lb QH, even if he is shorter. Note to self: Athleticism and temperment are more important than height...

[CatOnLap]

haha, and as you get older, shorter height becomes a little more important!

[quietann]

Do a search on "hony" for a recent discussion of horse height and rider height, and why some people prefer a smaller horse. My 15 hand Morgan mare is perfectly-sized for me (I am 5'1"). At age 45, I don't want to be any further from the ground!

Seriously, though, the obsession with huge horses is something I just don't get...

[Ambrey]

Seriously, though, the obsession with huge horses is something I just don't get...

Yeah, I thought a big horse would be really cool, until I fell off and broke ;) Now I'm thinking... if I had it to do over again, I would have gotten a smaller one!

OP, learn from my hindsight ;)

[EtErNaLfLaMe07]

I would go out and ride this horse beforehand... it is likely that 14.3 sounds small now but will feel much different while on his back... the icelandics that i ride you know around 13 hh NEVER feel that small while you are on their back. :yes: it awesome lol. and i would maybe rethink the stallion, shur being a QH he may be quiet and such but i can think of a few QH studs that are the exact opposite. I am about the same build but i like the taller horses, my TB mare is 15.3 and she isnt tall enough :winkgrin: ask your trainer to go with you and look, ride the horse and then make your decision.

[mjrtango93]

I am a full 6' and not a bean pole (not stalky but average build for height). I rarely get anything over 16.1, and one of my first prelim horses was a 15.1 (if he had shoes on and was due for a trim) OTTB. He never had issues with distances being too long, instead everything was short for him. I looked a bit stupid but he was narrow and short, not a good combination when I am tall. Last summer I had 2 re-sale guys in that were 14.2 and 14.3 Fjords, I felt stupid because my upper body was so tall but they took quite a bit of my leg. Sold them and got a 15.2 western pleasure horse that converted to english. Did the QH congress for pleasure and trail before I got him, then went through training level eventing. Sold him on in the barn as an amatuer packer. Maybe you can find one of those!

[rabicon]

I have a 14.3 qh that is now retired but I rode him in barrels and jumped him. I am 5'7 1/2 with long legs and torso and am scrawny:lol: My guy was not wide either. He had no problem making distances because he had such a BIG stride for a little guy. He would have made a great dressage horse if I was into dressage before he retired. I now have a 16H moganxappendix that is thick and big and does great at dressage and low level eventing but what I'd give to have my little qh back in eventing with me. He moved like a cat and was the most sure footed horse I have ever rode. Suspension in low level dressage isn't a big big deal. They need to have clear gaits but they don't have to have a lot of suspension. The guy I ride now has really no suspension and is doing really really well at dressage. (training level and some 1st level) scoring in the high 60's. As long as his gaits are clear and he has a nice stride he might be a really good fit for you. You'd be surprised how these guys can jump. My qh and I jumped 4' (high as I wanted to go ;)) but he could have went much higher considering he'd jump the 5' board fence in the pasture from a stand still all the time :lol: to come back to his stall. I also had a friend ride my daughters pony at 14.1H and she is only 5'4 but curvey and the judge wrote on the dressage test that daY (she only showed him once for me) that they made a nice pair. I wouldn't worry about your size and his, if he works out then I'm sure you guys will be just fine together ;)

[didgery]

I am 5'10" (pushing 5'11") but have never felt better than I feel on my 14.3 hand mule! You can see us here:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c127/Didgery/4304_74697937595_557777595_1836583_.jpg

I used to think that anything under 17 hands would never do. As I've gotten older, I love the adjustability, the easy mounting, the easy trailering, the ease of handling and the general presence of a smaller animal. I think that a 14+ hand horse would be more than adequate for you and I urge you to follow your gut if the QH candidate feels right.

[sublimequine]

:sings to the tune of "fat man in a little coat":

Tall person on a littttttle horse..... :lol:

I'm 5'9", and my mare's barely 15hh. She's a wide tank of a girl though, so she fills out my legs really well.

[rabicon]

Here's me on the 14.1 hand pony.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2018453450103994293XSHAwO

[zippandrich]

My pleasure horse on a tall day is 15.2 i grew up on a 16.3 TB imagen the difference in size and build. my pleasure horse has alot of body to him which my other horse doesn't. and to be honest with you i like the small horse more now its shorter to the ground

[dreamswept]

We postin' pictures?

Because I'm 5'6" and have a 14.1 hand Haflinger. My previous horse had been a 15.3 TB, so you could say I 'downsized' a bit. ;)

My reason for going with a smaller horse was because I'd really taken up with trail riding, and it's so much easier to hop aboard a little one rather than a larger horse. Comes in handy on the multi-use trails where we have to kick poop off the trail. Also low branches are an ease to miss.

He's got really nice movement. For a little guy with short(er) legs, he's a powerhouse and really zooms over the ground. He moves like a horse rather than having choppy strides.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/dreamswept/MightyMitch/mitchie-and-lei5.jpg

Folks at my barn say we fit pretty well together. I'm mostly leg, but when I'm on his back, you'd hardly know it.

[saddleup]

I've been looking at a 15.2hh gelding and worrying that he's too small for me, at 5'8", so this thread is helpful! As I'm getting older my horses are getting smaller -- do I see a trend here???

[Ambrey]

As far as I'm concerned, any thread that involves people posting pics of ponies is a good thread :)

[Petstorejunkie]

as long as the horse has a barrel to accommodate your leg and you can still use your leg properly, then size really doesnt matter.
I have an ottb that gets mistaken for a wb because of his substantial bone. he's 15.1 i'm tall (5'9") and slender with a 36" inseam. never once have i felt too big on him. Any activity we have wanted to do we have worked at and done well.

if he's a qh with more of a reiner's neck set and conformation he should do fine in the eventing and dressage, but if he's built like those new delicate breed hunters, i'd say pass.

[quietann]

As far as I'm concerned, any thread that involves people posting pics of ponies is a good thread :)

Ambrey, since you asked, and I am a total photo whore about my mare, these are from Tuesday and our very brief trip out on the road in front of the barn. She was *horrid* going out, at first, but the photos were all taken on the way back:

I was more worried about the white sign in the brush than she was... (http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/may19_2009/white_sign.jpg)

pretty mare! (http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/may19_2009/relax.jpg)

She has a cuter butt than I do! (http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/may19_2009/butts.jpg)

(Mare is 15 hands shod, I am 5'1" and a bit, weigh about 140 pounds.)

[Ambrey]

Ambrey, since you asked, and I am a total photo whore about my mare, these are from Tuesday and our very brief trip out on the road in front of the barn.

Ah, she's one of my favorites to see, too :)

She sounds like a real character!

[Sacred_Petra]

Pics are always a good thing. Now if only I could find a way to make my camera take pictures by itself...
Quietann, your mare is adorable, and you two make a cute pair. I really love the dark golden palamino coloring! I'm a sucker for the brightly colored ones, especialy when they have personality.

I found another good point for short horses today. They're alot easier to get that 32lb roping saddle on! Me lifting the saddle onto the draft-wannabe QH (16.1hh, and needs a 56" girth to reach past the first hole on the billets) I'm riding was not a pretty sight.:lol:

On an aside, I find a nice looking horse, decide he'll be a good size even if he is smaller, and then someone offers to give me their horse. Now I'm having to find reasons not to take the free horse, and right now they're pretty slim, mostly centering around "he's not pretty enough". Someone please find me a reason that isn't so snobby and narcissistic!

[Ambrey]

Um, if you ever have to sell, it's hard to get rid of an ugly horse?

Life is too short, get a pretty one ;)

[Sacred_Petra]

Sorry I have now ventured completely off topic! Please feel free to continue posting on topic too, I enjoy hearing about y'all how ride shorter horses and why, since it does seem that shorter is more sensible.

Am I allowed to use the "life's too short" excuse when I'm only 20? ;)

Ironically, I'm the only person I know who's met this horse and hasn't fallen in love with him the moment I saw him. His owner has had 4 different people offer to buy him.

To be fair, I do have one good excuse: he is known for bucking people off, but the only person I know he bucked off totaly deserved it! I haven't seen a single horse not buck with that man (he overtightens his girth no matter how many times I tell him it doesn't need to be that tight), and this horse is such a woman's horse (we think he was abused by several men). When I'm standing in he pasture with him, he stands next to me and licks me, like a dog, or rests his nose against my knees and falls asleep while I scratch his ears. His only conformation problem is that his neck is set a little high for western pleasure, but so are a lot of horses with his breeding, and he's got great legs and feet. He has exceptionaly large bones in his legs, and his feet are like small dinner plates. If he were a person, he'd be built like a wrestler, or maybe a football player (the muscular ones, not the overweight ones).

See! My biggest reasons against him are that he's a solid color paint (the solid color part, not the paint, I happen to love paints), and he has a bit of a roman nose, and I tend to prefer a more dished face. Plus, if I couldn't train him out of the bucking (if he even tries), the owners wouldn't hesitate to take him back and let him spend the rest of his days roaming around their pasture. Seriously, I need a better reason not to take this horse, because the more I think about it, the more I start to want him.

[Dazednconfused]

His feet touch the ground, don't they? ;)

[Beverley]

To be fair, I do have one good excuse: he is known for bucking people off, but the only person I know he bucked off totaly deserved it!

His only conformation problem is that his neck is set a little high for western pleasure, but so are a lot of horses with his breeding, and he's got great legs and feet.

Plus, if I couldn't train him out of the bucking (if he even tries), the owners wouldn't hesitate to take him back and let him spend the rest of his days roaming around their pasture. Seriously, I need a better reason not to take this horse, because the more I think about it, the more I start to want him.

Geez, you're picky. I will grant you that smaller horses in my experience tend to have WAY more bucking power. My little mare is NFR finals quality, as was a 15.2 h gelding I hunted for 20 years (although the 14.3h mare I owned for 29 years never bucked anybody off- she did spook out from under me once). My big geldings over the years have had laughably lame bucks- more comfortable and easier to sit than lots of horses' canters!

As for conformation: Handsome is as handsome does. Any sane person would completely reject my gelding, truly ugly front end. And yet he doesn't know he should be at least half a cripple- and if I ever think about selling him there are at least a dozen people poised for the fight.

And you have a no questions asked return policy? What's not to like?

BTW, ever noticed that smaller horses tend to stay sound and rideable much longer? 15.2h being the optimal size in terms of all the geometry and physics and whatnot. And, when you are sitting up on top and happily going wherever you want to go, can you tell whether his face is a bit Roman or a bit dished?

OK reasons not to take him: sorry, drawing a blank here.:cool:

[myvanya]

I rode short horses my whole life until recently! My horse is 14.3 on a good day and we jumped up to 4'9" together- for reference, I am 5'8" and I have super long legs. He is now 24 (we are the same age) so we are taking it easy now and not jumping big jumps and focusing more on dressage. In the past though we did Jumpers both in the Morgan circuit and in Open shows and were quite competitive. Small horses can often make big strides, have lots of spring for the jumps, and can make tighter turns than a larger horse. My horse has done western, driving, jumping, dressage, cross country, vaulting, therapeutic riding, barrels, poles, saddleseat, equitation, and trail riding and has done really well with everything. He was better at some things than others, but really wasn't terrible at any of those things- so I disagree with the notion that I horse can't do several things well.

Edited to add: I agree shorter horses seem to stay sound very well. My horse is 24 years old. He is still sound, and jumping even. He has NEVER been lame.

Also, roman noses are cute- my guy has one!

Below is a recent pic of us:

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m472/valeskadavis/valeska2.jpg

[Sacred_Petra]

Myvanya, your horse sounds amazing. Its great that you two have been able to do so many different things. Untill my horse's conformation problems turned him into an expensive to keep pasture ornament, he and I were like that, although we never jumped much bigger than 2ft.

Speaking of small horses and agility, this is extreme (I would squish a pony this small, lol) but man can these ponies move! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PTCbMG0IeY&feature=related

[armandh]

too tall if you need to buy a much taller trailer
too short if "heel down" starts to plow dirt

I'm the old fat guy on the too tall [right]
http://www.pbase.com/lesliegra/image/103789742

[Ambrey]

Yep, I have one that needs two stalls in a slant load.

As for beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder. If he starts to look good to you, than he's no longer an ugly horse! If you like him, then take him (personally, I like roman noses on the right horse, but they aren't very desirable in a QH/paint).

[dreamswept]

I found another reason for short horses!

I was walking the golden poneh around and we went by the arena where one of the lesson girls just asked her horse for a canter. Two-tone pony felt spunky, and did the bolt/jump/buck thing -- caught me on the thigh with his hind hoof. I think he just brushed me, and he's barefoot too, so no harm done.

But man, if he'd been bigger, I think he could have kicked a lot higher.