Here's my new guy, update first ride post 98

[Auventera Two]

*link removed*

Introducing Andre - 8 year old Arabian stallion, 15.3 hands, half brother to my other Arab. He's unstarted but is very intelligent and is a real "thinking" horse. He's such a happy guy and loves his people. His ground manners are impeccable. He was a herd sire so the broodmares taught him a thing or two about manners and herd dynamics. ;) :lol: His owner needed to downsize and of all the horses I looked at, Andre just seemed right to me. He's one of those horses that is just a joy to be around. Very calm and quiet, not prone to antics or shenanigans. Needs conditioning and muscle but groceries and work should do the trick. Meets me at the fence with a nicker and his answer to everything is - sure, I can do that for you!

I spent a long time waiting and looking for my 2nd endurance horse, and it was WELL worth it. Everytime I look out the kitchen window, I can't believe I got lucky enough to find such a gem. :)

He even DRINKS when I point his nose at the water tank. Can't get much better than that! :eek: :lol:

[GallopingGrape]

He's stunning!!!

[JustTrails]

Congratulations, he is stunning! I love his build - very well balanced.

[Shadow14]

He is gorgous A2 . A real find. He reminds me of Rio. Just don't get hurt breaking him and hope it isn't a long process.

[InstigatorKate]

Wow, look at that bone. Seems like he'll be able to give you a lot of good years!

[Bank of Dad]

He's just beautiful. You are a braver woman than I, says she laughing who just traded in the 7 yr old for a calm quiet 16 yr old.

I just did two unbrokes. I had a feeling I was the next to get broke. LOL

[Auventera Two]

LOL Bank, I hear you :lol: My thought is that you can get hurt on a broke horse just as well as an unbroke one. One of the worst injuries I've had around horses happened on my dead broke bomb proof horse. I think a bee flew up her nose on a trail ride because she freaked out, and went up, threw her head back and hit me with her poll on the forehead so hard it broke my ear drum. Everything got insanely loud and blood was trickling out of my ear. That was a long time healing, and it happened so fast.

He sure does have good bone! And his legs are very straight and correct. I'm very excited to see how he looks as he gains weight and muscling.

[Shadow14]

A2 since he has such good ground manners I hope it carries over into riding. He sound sensible and he hopefully will not be hard to break. I would even be suprised if someone at some time didn't get on him.
This is what I would do. This is my opinion and again this is how I would approach him.
I would use my endurance saddle since it his comfortable for me and it TREED. You need a good treed saddle for support. I would also use a snaffle regardless of what you use down the road but for the first few weeks a snaffle AND a running martingale adjusted properly. I would also have a good helper, preferrably male and enough experience to handle the horse's head.
I would make sure the saddle is good and tight and with a helper holding the horse against a barn wall, outside of coarse or a round pen is even better but crowd the horse into the wall and climb aboard worrying only about getting aboard and not controlling the horse, that is the handlers job. Just get aboard and take a good hold in the mane with one hand, the handler uses his body and hold on the head to turn the horse into himself if he starts reacting. You will know almost instantly if he accepts your weight. If so start the handling giving you a pony ride. Start taking control with the reins and see how he reacts. I would be very suprised if he didn't accept you right away.
I have done this many many times on brand new unbroke horses with good luck. Most accept immediately, some spin around a little but a good ground helper makes all the difference. We even use fresh cultivated fields with soft footing if available and just run the horse around the handler if he gets upset. Once you know he accepts then the handler can give you more slack and start walking beside you while you start to see if he responds to the reins.
I know you know what you are doing. this is just how I do things and it works for me. I spend no time, zero time lunging. Most of the time I am up the first hour the horse arrives and if possible with the original owner doing the ground work and nearly every arab I ever tried accepted my weight immediately.
Shadow be the acception?

[Auventera Two]

Thanks Norval :) I have backed a lot of horses and got them going well in 3 gaits so I'm not worried. There is a local trainer that I trust to be the ground person, so I'll hire him to help me when its time to climb aboard. I tacked him with my endurance saddle and worked him over ground poles and he was fine with that, seemed happy to have a job. Yes, the previous owner has been on him so it's not totally foreign to him. I always said that the next horse I would break out in the deep snow :lol: But I don't want to wait until December to get on him. I would like him going on trails by the end of this summer. The ploughed fields are excellent too, but there are none of those now until late fall or early spring, everything is planted now. Libbey was barely halter broken and I just climbed on her bareback with a hackamore one night in a surge of bravery. We ended up riding all over the farm and no issues and she was leading on trails within the first week.

[egontoast]

One piece of tape between a breeding stallion and mares. Only when supervised? hmm. Unsafe set up you have there.

I think you might need to learn a bit more about stallions or are you hoping to line breed your mare?.

[arabhorse2]

Tell me you're going to geld him, please.

He's adorable, but he'll make a far nicer gelding than he is a stallion.

He's nicely put together, but nothing about him screams "stallion material" to me.

He looks very much like Conny, except he's a darker bay. As much as I loved Conny and thought he was the perfect horse, he wouldn't have done anything to improve the breed had he been kept a stallion.

[Shadow14]

One piece of tape between a breeding stallion and mares. Only when supervised? hmm. Unsafe set up you have there.

I think you might need to learn a bit more about stallions or are you hoping to line breed your mare?.

A2's fences are very good and a shock will stop a horse alot quicker then a solid board fence. I was actually admiring her fencing and thought about doing a very large pasture field in exactly the same fashion.
I have seen a stallion run right through a solid oak fence and yet a little electric wire stops him cold. It would stop me:lol::lol:

[Shadow14]

Tell me you're going to geld him, please.

He's adorable, but he'll make a far nicer gelding than he is a stallion.

.

I agree A2 with gelding him. A boy that has had brain surgury is far nicer then a stallion in every sense and eventually he can run with the rest of your herd.:) Leaving him a stallion is condemning him to a life of solitude

[Auventera Two]

He is TERRIFIED of electric. And that fence is super hot. Seeing how he came from a fence that was a foot shorter and only 2 strands, I'd say he's fine. He got moved around a lot depending on what mares they wanted bred and what they didn't, so he spent plenty of time in his own enclosure with no mares, and just that short fence between him and mares in heat. That was one thing that sold me on him was his absolutely sane and quiet disposition. Low libido coupled with WELL socialized and an owner who took no crap from him, has made him a very very good boy. His pasture is divided right now to transition him to the grass slowly, and that cross-fence is 3 foot step in posts with 2 strands of white tape. He could hop over it he wants, but he won't even go near it.

[Daatje]

Now that's a nice Arab! I'm jealous. :) Not many tall enough for me. He looks like he'll be an outstanding athlete.

[mp]

Low libido coupled with WELL socialized and an owner who took no crap from him, has made him a very very good boy.

Even good good boys can have an overpowering surge of hormones when they've put on weight and are more fit.

He's very nice, A2, and I wish you the best with him. But I'm in the "geld him" camp. That will save you a lot of trouble in the long run.

As a side note, I have to wonder about a breeder who let a stallion get that poor. I don't mean he's in any danger healthwise or that I'd call AC about his condition if I saw him in a pasture. But if he's too thin to carry a saddle comfortably, that's way too thin for a breeding stallion.

[hitchinmygetalong]

He may be well socialized after living in a mixed herd, but what about your mares?

[Auventera Two]

Now that's a nice Arab! I'm jealous. :) Not many tall enough for me. He looks like he'll be an outstanding athlete.

Thanks for the kind words, I too hope he will make a great athlete. It isn't easy to find a taller Arab so that part is wonderful. He seems to have a good work ethic and even the scary stuff flapping in the wind is a non issue. He had been loaded in a trailer twice in his young years but when we walked him up to mine, he sniffed the floor and went right in. I watched him on the trailer camera and he just stood quietly looking out the window for the ride home. I love his no-nonsense, no-drama attitude. :).

[onlyanarabian]

Nice horse I can't wait to see updated pic's once he has put weight on.

A2 quick question about your fencing I have gotten all the materials to do this system myself just would like to know how you did the corners? Thanks

[Auventera Two]

The corner posts are 9 foot cedar posts, or treated cedar, we used some of both. We bury the posts 4 feet to get below the frost line, and use the heavy connectors and tensioners that screw onto the wood. We really love this fencing and have used it for years. It holds up well, it's safe, and you can get it really hot with a heavy duty charger. We use 7 foot steel t-posts and always use the white caps on top for safety. I've boarded at some beautiful farms with wooden fencing, but it seems like sections of it is always rotting and falling over, the horses lay on it and push it down, or kick through it and get hung up or hurt. We've always felt they were pretty safe with the Horseguard.

[katarine]

He's a really nice looking horse.

When are you going to get him cut? That's the question that is NOT getting answered LOL, but we do know how your fence is built ;)

[Auventera Two]

Certain people on the thread are on the ignore list so their posts don't show up. I saw Norval's gelding question and now yours. Norval and I email so discussion about the horse has been continued there. Otherwise, not sure yet. The plan had been to geld him right away, or even before I brought him home, but I'd rather not stress him out even more right now with a surgical procedure and recovery until he's comfortable and well adjusted to his new environment and his condition improves. Also, I need to be able to take time off from work to stick close to home for a few days and make sure there is no bleeding or issues given that he is an older breeding stallion. We haven't decided anything for sure just yet. We may NOT geld him if he continues to do well in terms of behavior and his own happiness, and shows any type of athletic prowess on the trail. Don't know yet, but that's not a decision to be discussed by the internet crowd. That's a decision my husband and I will make based on our situation, the horse's athletic ability and aptitude for the trail, and the best needs of the horse.

[katarine]

ok.

[Chall]

He's beautiful ! and not even in his best weight yet. Have fun with him:)

[Raleigh's Mom]

Nice looking boy! Sounds like you are going to have 2 endurance horses to keep conditioned pretty soon. :)

[SmokenMirrors]

Congrats A2! He is a pretty boy, love his coloring and open laid back look. Your right, it is your decision to geld, you know him better than any of us do and as long as he is laid back and doesn't decide babies are more interesting than grass, and your not breeding just because, which I doubt as you sound very level headed, then have fun and enjoy him.

If I can ask, does it make a difference in endurance whether he is a gelding or a stallion? I was curious if they are more eager or not.

[chaltagor]

As a side note, I have to wonder about a breeder who let a stallion get that poor. I don't mean he's in any danger healthwise or that I'd call AC about his condition if I saw him in a pasture. But if he's too thin to carry a saddle comfortably, that's way too thin for a breeding stallion.

They were kinda desperate to get rid of him I think, his price went down by a third before A2 got him.

[spaghetti legs]

Congrats on the new horse. He looks older than eight; I'm glad he's not making anymore babies... Nothing there I would want to breed on.

Did you know the owner? Maybe with him light on condition he was easier for her to handle? Food for thought, before you go feeding him up.

[goeslikestink]

They were kinda desperate to get rid of him I think, his price went down by a third before A2 got him.

yeah she been after him for a while as he was down the road from her -
down a1/3 of the price asked um i would only have paid peanuts for him as his condition is poor as for the previous owner down sizing her herd if hes anything to go by she/he needs reporting - might have got him for free then

[Auventera Two]

Congrats A2! He is a pretty boy, love his coloring and open laid back look. Your right, it is your decision to geld, you know him better than any of us do and as long as he is laid back and doesn't decide babies are more interesting than grass, and your not breeding just because, which I doubt as you sound very level headed, then have fun and enjoy him.

If I can ask, does it make a difference in endurance whether he is a gelding or a stallion? I was curious if they are more eager or not.

Thanks Belplosh, he's such a joy and so much fun. :) I really love the Arabian personality anyway. They're such people horses. I was working with him last night in the 30 mph wind....the mares were running around their field feeling their oats, and he just stayed focused on what he and I were doing. As long as he's with his person he doesn't care what else is going on. He had 90 days halter training when he was a youngster and he remembers all that groundwork. You jiggle his rope and he sets up for you, too funny. I get these unintended halter setup poses from time to time. :lol: Breeding is the last thing we're thinking about now. Right now its just training. He's such a laid back guy and being intact isn't driving him crazy and that's the most important thing. He just lives and acts like any other horse. He puffs up a little for the ladies if I take him out to work with him, then put him away. He has to show the girls that he got even better during that hour he was gone. haa

I'm not sure about the gelding vs. stallion thing. I imagine it depends on the horse's nature and personality more than anything. My other Arab is really eager on the trail and doesn't have a quit button - at least at the shorter distances.

Anyway, we're so happy with him and proud to have him! The seller is really happy to see him in a good home where his talent can be used. I'll post more pictures and updates as he progresses. :)

[Shadow14]

The seller is really happy to see him in a good home where his talent can be used. I'll post more pictures and updates as he progresses. :)

Vickey he won the lottery when you got him. I also feel he will make a fantastic endurance horse. He has the size, the bone and is also the right breed:lol::lol:
As for the fence I really like how you have done this and will try to sell this idea to the place I am presently at

[Minerva Louise]

He's lovely- I hope you have lots of fun with him! Sounds like you have been, already! :lol:

[mp]

They were kinda desperate to get rid of him I think, his price went down by a third before A2 got him.

Wellll ... there's nothing wrong with having to sell a horse and dropping the price to do it. But you shouldn't let the horse's condition suffer in the meantime. I've been to a LOT of Arabian breeders' farms. And even the smaller ones had their stallions in good flesh. A2 said he was a herd sire and it doesn't look his previous owner cared enough -- or maybe knew enough -- to keep him in good shape for breeding.

Maybe I'm a bit of a cynic, but horse people like that don't make me feel all warm and fuzzy when it comes to believing anything else they have to say.

But I'm sure he'll be OK. He just needs to gain some weight and lose two nuts he never should have been allowed to keep in the first place.

[grayarabs]

A2 - he is lovely - so glad you were able to get him!!! I cannot remember - what is his breeding? Padron? I, too, would wait on the gelding part.

[Dazednconfused]

I would also have a good helper, preferrably male and enough experience to handle the horse's head.

Why??:confused:

[Shadow14]

Why??:confused:

Because males are usually bigger and stronger and what you want is someone you can trust to control the horse. I like to crowd them into a wall or fence but the fence being a round pen. If the horse tries to bolt I want the handler to keep the horse turning around this handler.
A small girl can get run over. Men tend to be more assertive and I want the horse to know someone has a good hold on his head.
I have done dozen of young horses like this and again I prefer a big strong man over a lady.
In most things I prefer a lady but not this time:D:D

[pines4equines]

A2, he's terrific. I know nothing about Arabs or endurance. I particularly liked how much bone he has. Is that unusual in Arabs? I see a lot of pictures of Arabs in magazines and they seem so fine boned. Is it show Arabs versus endurance Arabs? Do you look at breeding? Are the Polish Arabs a bit sturdier?

Good luck and update us with pictures after the A2 feeding/conditioning program and he has the dapples goin'!

[Auventera Two]

Norval, I already made plans with a trainer for assistance, and yes he's a guy. :cool: :lol: Andre seems to be most comfortable with women though, as he was owned and handled by a woman, and now me. His trainer when he was a youngster was also female. Typical guy, he just likes the ladies. :lol: He responds very well to voice and it doesn't take any tough handling for him. He really knows what WHOA means. He has a wonderful nature and really does want to please so that makes him very pleasant to handle.

You're right Pines, he sure does have a ton of bone. Thick legs and big joints.

[kellyb]

He's cute. What is with all of the heat about gelding? I am just wondering if you guys insist on spaying when you see a mare without the best conformation.

Just owning a stallion does not mean you're automatically going to breed it. That's just my 2 cents though, it'd be a different story if A2 was asking for opinions on whether to breed or not, but to me it looks like she just wants to share pics of her new pony... :)

[ride2endure]

A2, I love him! :) He reminds me a lot of my new fellow, Huck (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=39431314&l=7ae88a5f82&id=11817113) who, though a gelding, was gelded late and started as a 7 year old. We purchased him in February and he was pretty green especially for a 10 year old, but he has been wonderful to work with and shows so much potential, especially when we do our weekly long conditioning rides. Nothing really bothers him on the trail, and he's a dream to ride out alone with. I've been working with a dressage trainer and instructor and that has really helped him a lot.

I showed your picture to my husband and he was amazed with the similarity between him and Huck but they share nothing in their pedigrees, at least not close up (and Huck doesn't have Huckleberry Bey lineage, despite what his name may suggest).

Congratulations!

[Kyzteke]

Because males are usually bigger and stronger and what you want is someone you can trust to control the horse. I like to crowd them into a wall or fence but the fence being a round pen. If the horse tries to bolt I want the handler to keep the horse turning around this handler.

Shadow -- shame on you!:) What you want is a PERSON who knows how to handle a horse. Trust me, all those years I was on the track I handled big, goofy horses that were hotter than a $2 pistol and I did a pretty good job, if I do say so myself. I was known in my little area as the one groom to give the nasty ones to.

Has nothing to do with the gender OR the strength -- it has to do with knowledge. I know plenty of big, strong guys who don't know how to use their leverage to control a horse. It mainly has to do with knowledge, experience and the right equipment.

[Dazednconfused]

Because males are usually bigger and stronger and what you want is someone you can trust to control the horse. I like to crowd them into a wall or fence but the fence being a round pen. If the horse tries to bolt I want the handler to keep the horse turning around this handler.
A small girl can get run over. Men tend to be more assertive and I want the horse to know someone has a good hold on his head.
I have done dozen of young horses like this and again I prefer a big strong man over a lady.
In most things I prefer a lady but not this time:D:D

That's ridiculous when it comes to a thousand pound animal. 130lbs vs 180 or 200? Not going to make a damn bit of difference. Stupid comment. Anyone can be assertive and skilled at starting horses.

The 1800s called and they want their chauvinistic attitude back.

[Astraled]

The only appropriate response to a "look at my new horse" thread is "Congratulations, I hope you have a lot of fun/success together. He sure is cute/tall/well marked/a pretty color/shiny."

Otherwise, it's just mean :no:.

AV2, Congratulations. I bought a stallion (9 years old, unbroke, needed to get sold yesterday) out of a very similar situation because he had the same sire as my gelding.

I'm sure you'll be as happy with your boy as I am with Jake.

[certifiedgirl]

Congratulations! I think he's very nice looking.

[ToiRider]

I think Andre is lovely and will make a wonderful endurance horse. I am drooling over all that bone!!! I would love to see some front and back shots of him as well. I think you got yourself quite an endurance horse!

I've been surprised at some of the responses, but I figure that those people aren't in the market for an endurance horse, which is a different style of Arabian than many are looking for.

[egontoast]

A small girl can get run over. Men tend to be more assertive and I want the horse to know someone has a good hold on his head.
I have done dozen of young horses like this and again I prefer a big strong man over a lady

:lol:

yeah because these are your only possible options for stallion handlers:

'a small girl'
'a lady'.
'a big strong man'

[hunterqueen]

I haven’t read all of the responses yet but can only say: Wow and people say hunter people are rude??? I think he is a great prospect for endurance (Yes I have some experience in this department as well and did own an Arab for 6 years.) and whether the poster wants to keep him a stallion or not is her opinion; not others. The same goes for her fencing, I don’t believe she asked for comments on her fencing but simply wanted to share her new horse. I say congrats and your boy looks like he will be a super star one day!

[Minerva Louise]

:lol:

yeah because these are your only possible options for stallion handlers:

'a small girl'
'a lady'.
'a big strong man'

Oh, my poor little feelers are so hurt. :( I am not even on the list. Oh no! :eek: The story of my life; I'm left out again, boo hoo. :cry:

I'm a big strong lady. :lol: 5'11" and 150 lbs :D

No worries; just jokin'

I think AV2's new horse is lovely and he looks like he will do very well in endurance - he has qualities that are prized in the endurance world. I am also going to second that the horse belongs to AV2, not to anyone else, and as such, it is not anyone else's decision about gelding. I'm sure she thinks about it, pros and cons, and will moniter and adjust to the conditions as warrented.

I will also say, she has lovely fences, as well....

[katarine]

oh please- she's a big girl. She can handle the naysaying over his testicles.

[Shadow14]

:lol:

yeah because these are your only possible options for stallion handlers:



She is not looking for a handler. She is perfectly capable of handling him on the ground without help. I am talking about the first time she steps aboard. She must concentrate on just getting aboard and let the handler control the horse. The first ride is a pony ride. The horse stands 15-3 or 63 inches. Most ladies are in the 5 foot 3 range or the top of their head is about level with the back of the horse. A average guy is close to 6 feet and towers a head taller then the horse. A male is also strong?? I know some of the ladies won't agree with that but we are built different with strong chest, not prettier but stronger , with stronger shoulders. This handler is to keep the horse from bolting and running away and getting A2 hurt. so he crowds the horse into the wall or fence/round pen and controls the horse while A2 concentrates on just gently getting aboard with minimum fuss. If all seems good then the handler ponies A2 around. If things go all to hell A2 can try and stay aboard while the handler turns the horse around him in circles.
Again I have done this dozens of times with new horses and it works. After a little pony ride A2 can decide if he is responding to gentle pulls on the bit and then the handler can give more slack and just walk along as a safety with about 3 feet of slack.
This is not sexist, it is just using what nature gave us, you must trust the handler to handle the horse and I would want a big guy like my son-in-law at 6 foot 4 and 230 pounds. He towered over Rio and the horse had no place to go but into the fence or around him.
I also believe that A2 will not NO problems. He has proven to be very very good and he will do nothing, just pony her around and then settle down to being ridden.

[pandorasboxx]

Good going--Nice athletic looking boy. It's always nice to see such horses get great homes.

Frankly, I could give a monkey's patoot whether you remove the jewels or not. Your horse, your choice. Guess I missed the part about you asking for opinions on that matter. :winkgrin:

[Shadow14]

That's ridiculous when it comes to a thousand pound animal. 130lbs vs 180 or 200? Not going to make a damn bit of difference. .

then why does a 150 pound girl get dragged by her heavy horse cross and then ask me at 190 to teach him some manners?? He tried dragging me down the lane and he didn't get anywhere while with her he just ran off and she went tumbling.
Of coarse I meant a guy who works with horses, not some novice, but a GUY who has experience.. Alot of you ladies are really trying to imitate men. If I have heavy lifting I seek a male, not a female because of the way they are built.
I guess my wife and others around me are to lady like to have the muscle, the back strength and the shoulders for really heavy work.
I gave my opinion of how I would suggest A2 goes about breaking him. Am I not entitled to an opinion?? Can I not suggest how I would do it??
I would seek out a GUY who works with horses, a farrier would be great, they don't intimidate him and not some 120- 130 pound lady.
Again I have a right to an opinion, I gave it, Vickey is certainly knowledgable to decide on her own how she wants to go about it. Maybe others reading this might just get an idea to give it a try my way.
To you other ladies who feel slighted at my suggestion that she uses a guy for the first time, sorry:D
Guess there are some ladies here who don't really have much use for guy??
If I am at the head the horse will not get away, he will circle maybe but he will not run.

[egontoast]

Alot of you ladies are really trying to imitate men.


Yes, sad isn't it, what with all the riding astride and votin and stuff. :no:

[ToiRider]

:rolleyes:This thread is turning into a train wreck. The OP has a beautiful horse with a lot of qualities which are perfect for an endurance horse. She posted on the endurance forum, not on the halter forum (if there even is one here).

In addition, why are some of you wasting a perfectly good holiday weekend snarking at each other? Go drink a beer or two and eat some barbecue.

[Serigraph]

Man, I used to read this forum b/c the people were nice. It is always somewhat surprising what advice or opinions people will offer when not asked.

A2-He's a pretty horse.

[Calico]

Congratulations A2, he sounds like a nice fellow and a solid citizen. He's a little underweight but not too bad. However, from the pics, it looks like he seriously lacks muscle development. Since he's never carried and balanced weight before, slow and steady does it so he doesn't feel overfaced, but you know that! :)

For a dude so full of bravado and machismo, Shadow, you are one of the most defensive and sensitive drama queens in all the land. Which is entertaining and ironic, but you just can't help yourself and take over other people's threads with your defensive rants. This is A2's thread. Here's an idea, start your own thread about whatever disagreement is stuck in your craw. This is not about you.

[candyappy]

He is very nice. A little weight will make a big difference.

I think if he is easy to handle, ride and doesn't get obnoxious, and listens to you under saddle, I wouldn't worry about gelding him. I rode an off the track TB stud that was used for breeding when I was in high school. He was a true gentleman and knew his time to breed. He puffed up a bit too around the ladies, but he didn't scare me and we loved the trail.

I am 5'9 155 lbs and can put up and stack hay with the best of them, but I agree with Shadow, and you can bet that when I get on my 4 year old mule come June, It will be a big strong man at his head ( and this mule is home bred and handled since day 1) Sorry girls !

[BaileyTW]

Congrats on the new horse! I looked for some arabs when I was looking for my newbie and wasn't lucky enough to find any so lovely as yours! Nice and tall! very cute, too. I wanted a nice bay too... How did I get a mostly white paint? lol.

[saratoga]

She is not looking for a handler. She is perfectly capable of handling him on the ground without help. I am talking about the first time she steps aboard. She must concentrate on just getting aboard and let the handler control the horse. The first ride is a pony ride. The horse stands 15-3 or 63 inches. Most ladies are in the 5 foot 3 range or the top of their head is about level with the back of the horse. A average guy is close to 6 feet and towers a head taller then the horse. A male is also strong?? I know some of the ladies won't agree with that but we are built different with strong chest, not prettier but stronger , with stronger shoulders. This handler is to keep the horse from bolting and running away and getting A2 hurt. so he crowds the horse into the wall or fence/round pen and controls the horse while A2 concentrates on just gently getting aboard with minimum fuss. If all seems good then the handler ponies A2 around. If things go all to hell A2 can try and stay aboard while the handler turns the horse around him in circles.
.


Yikes! I've broke several babies and never had anyone hold the horse when i got on the first time.....I've always spent a lot of time on ground work and ponying and "bellying up" and all that....I dont think a horse *should* bolt or buck or anything like that....to me, that means its NOT READY to ridden and sounds dangerous whether or not you have a man or a woman or nobody at its head??????? I mean, granted, at some point a baby will do something weird but if I need to have someone muscle it into not freaking out, I dont want any part of being on its back!!

[cloudyandcallie]

Congradulations on the horse. I hope he works out well for you.

And yes we women do like men, however we prefer that they have muscle in areas other than their heads. To succeed, a woman must work twice as hard as a man. Fortunately that is easy to do.

[Dazednconfused]

Better tell the trainer I help start babies with that I'm not big enough or strong enough to handle it. For someone that seems to think so highly of himself as a horseman, you sure have no concept of the silly idea that it's not possible for a human to muscle around a 1000lb animal...

Again - 1800s called and they want their chauvinism back!

[Beasmom]

For the folks who are getting all exercised about the suggestions to geld -- 99.999% of stallions make much better geldings, and are happier without the hormones. The spaying of mares would probably be much more prevalent if it weren't so expensive. Plus, spaying is a more invasive operation than gelding -- for obvious reasons.

With the economy and the horse market the way it is, breeding, unless you are talking TOP, TOP quality horses that you KNOW there is a market for, is irresponsible. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that this animal was allowed to breed before knowing what kind of a riding horse he'd be, and with no performance show record. That speaks of ignorant breeder/owners. What's the point of that sort of breeding program?

That horse is not top quality. Cute, but not good enough to be a stallion. A "meh" pedigree. Keep in mind, also, that some communities have restrictions on the housing of stallions.

That said, I'm probably on AV2's ignore list, so this was a waste of time. She reminds me of that old saw, "You can always tell a Texan, but you can't tell him much!"

My apologies to my fellow Texans for that...

[lolita1]

Congrats

[MistyBlue]

Well, I was going to agree with Shadow that men are normally stronger and heavier than women.
However, after hearing that any female who is actually strong and muscular is only trying to imitate a man...I'll not agree with him on that alone. :winkgrin:
FWIW...I am a 120 lb short female. And if a horse tries to run off when I'm holding it, it also circles. It doesn't take a lot of brute force to control the head. I don't try to stop a bratty horse by tackling it's chest or body.
I've also worked for ages with difficult horses, they're my favorites for some odd reason. Never had to resort to someone with testicles to do the job. Handling a difficult horse takes finesse...if handling rough horses were a brute strength issue then most of the male trainers would look a lot more like body builders, wouldn't they?
I may be a lady, I may be small, I may even wear jewelry....but I can also bench press my body weight in reps and leg press a large pony. :D And nope, not trying to imitate men by doing that. Just being a healthy girl. :cool:
Just because you've known females intimidated by their horses doesn't mean all females are weak little simps. So neener. ;)

[foxrider]

He's cute. What is with all of the heat about gelding? I am just wondering if you guys insist on spaying when you see a mare without the best conformation.

Just owning a stallion does not mean you're automatically going to breed it. That's just my 2 cents though, it'd be a different story if A2 was asking for opinions on whether to breed or not, but to me it looks like she just wants to share pics of her new pony... :)

If one posts a picture of their horse ( especially one with the potential to make babies ) on a public forum, no matter what the intent, there are going to be comments.
And to the silly spaying comment: A mare can only have one unplanned for foal at a time. If a stud gets out:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:... well, you get the picture.

[ayrabz]

I think he's gorgeous, and am in the camp of being anxious (!) to see his updated pix soon!
Not going to comment on gelding/not gelding---simply because OP didn't ask for those opinions...
I would like to ask, though, because I'm curious (!) and haven't ever done an actual endurance ride--Are stallions always allowed? I know that, very often, on many of the organized trail rides, stallions are not.

[pandorasboxx]

Yes-stallions are allowed. I don't know of any restrictions of them in endurance.

[Auventera Two]

I was away at an endurance ride this weekend, this is the first chance at the computer. (Sweets did awesome, all As throughout, great comments from vet, ate and drank better than ever, recoveries were better than ever, top 10ed, had a good shot at BC but don't know the outcome as I didn't stay for awards. Yay for my girlie!) All the comments are fine, no problem. :) People can throw their opinions out there, if I didn't expect it, I would have omitted the stallion part. No plans to breed, that's for sure. Right now the focus is just to get him in good condition and go from there. I can only cross one bridge at a time.

Anyway, thanks for all the comments! I did look at a lot of Arabians and I wanted something tall, heavy solid bone, big/strong feet, a great mind, good conformation. There are a couple of things I'm not crazy about in his conformation but the pros outweighed the cons for me. He seemed to fit the bill for an endurance prospect. Others I looked at did not. Being out of the same dam as Sweets was nice, as I really like the mare and like other babies that she has produced. Andre's sire also has a superb temperament, from what I've been told by a couple of people who have met him. He produces babies that are trainable and rideable and is very rideable himself. Those things are important to me.

I do lots of groundwork and preparation for saddle work long before I go up on their backs so there is not likely to be any hysteria and drama. I don't get on until I know they're ready for it, so the need for someone to muscle him into submission will be a non-issue.

I have some trim appointments today, but I should have time this afternoon to trim his feet, so I'll get some more photos to post at that time.

Again, thanks everybody for the comments! I am so thrilled with him. I spend lots and lots of hours on the trail so any partner I choose has to have a stellar disposition and has to be a horse I can connect with and connects with me as well. Sweets and Andre share the same loveable nature, inquisitive mind, and intelligence that is so important on the trail. :cool:

P.S. - Huck is lovely!!! Boy I'm a sucker for Bays! :winkgrin: Thanks for posting the photo, you two look wonderful together!

[Shadow14]

Yikes! I've broke several babies and never had anyone hold the horse when i got on the first time.....I've always spent a lot of time on ground work and ponying and "bellying up" and all that....I dont think a horse *should* bolt or buck or anything like that....to me, that means its NOT READY to ridden and sounds dangerous whether or not you have a man or a woman or nobody at its head??????? I mean, granted, at some point a baby will do something weird but if I need to have someone muscle it into not freaking out, I dont want any part of being on its back!!


I've always got on a new horse the same day, sometimes within minutes of getting him home. If I have to geld he gets done the very next morning and then I give him a few days but I am up on him within a few days too and if I can control him we take off into the bush.
Once while horse hunting I came across a 7 year old stallion that had been stall bond all his life because an old man was afraid of him and kept him confined, no brushing , no regular foot care, no nothing and I test rode him around a pasture field. Yes it took a little work, alot of work but I was up aboard in about 1/2 hour and took him for a nice ride before rejecting him.
Shadow was the only horse I new that loved to buck, day after day but I later learned that 2 other trainers had given up on him and he was use to getting his own way. After a month of being a nice guy I gave up too and went rougher and broke him in one session which I taped and showed here. NO whip, no spur just a bigger bit and set him down when he tried going into his buck.
I honestly don't know a lady that I could get to help lift anything heavy, not a one that I would ask if the task required two to lift but I do know some strong men that work with horses, are not intimidated by them, tall enough to be able to use their shoulder and meet the horse shoulder to shoulder.
We all look around in our little world and pick people from it if we want help.
I do want someone holding the first time, I do want someone ponying me until I get a feel and then as a saftey issue I want that person on the end of the lead line the first few days. It is for my safety as well as the horse's.
I would have no problems crawling on Andre if A2 was the holder.

[Auventera Two]

I think he's gorgeous, and am in the camp of being anxious (!) to see his updated pix soon!
Not going to comment on gelding/not gelding---simply because OP didn't ask for those opinions...
I would like to ask, though, because I'm curious (!) and haven't ever done an actual endurance ride--Are stallions always allowed? I know that, very often, on many of the organized trail rides, stallions are not.

Yes, they're always allowed as far as I know, but the more experienced endurance riders could probably answer that better. There might be rules for Competitive Trail??? Not sure on that. I vetted in right next to one Friday night. He was a little puffy and strutting for the girls that were around him but otherwise superbly behaved. There was a gelding there who was giving his rider a fit and the stallion just stood there on a loose lead waiting for his turn. When I was a teen, my grandpa bought me a yearling colt and he was older when we gelded him. I broke him out, and trail rode him for years as a stallion and I had absolutely no issues. He was a horse just like any other. The disposition is so important though.

[Auventera Two]

I've always got on a new horse the same day, sometimes within minutes of getting him home. If I have to geld he gets done the very next morning and then I give him a few days but I am up on him within a few days too and if I can control him we take off into the bush.

I prefer to do things a lot slower and do all the pre-requisite groundwork first. I guess the dressage background comes into play there. I've been spending about an hour a day with Andre just doing simple stuff like learning about fly sheets, masks, spray, tacking/untacking, hoof picking, cross-tieing, etc. Training a greenie is a time consuming endeavor. We'll get there but I'm on no pressing schedule. A well cared for Arab lives into their 30s usually so if I spend a few months getting all the basics down and getting him under tack, I'll be very happy.

I honestly don't know a lady that I could get to help lift anything heavy, not a one that I would ask if the task required two to lift but I do know some strong men that work with horses, are not intimidated by them, tall enough to be able to use their shoulder and meet the horse shoulder to shoulder.Come throw hay with me for a day, or trim 10 horses at one stop. :lol: Or throw hay for couple hours, trim 5 horses, then go ride for 2 hours on trails. Most of the time I have no help unloading 50 lb. feed bags out of my truck and into the feed room. Some of us girlies are darned hard workers.

I just don't usually have a need to muscle horses around. Even a 200 lb. strong man will lose in a muscle to muscle competition with a 1,000 pound animal, especially one who has teeth and hooves and a powerful kick and strike instinct, to back up the muscle. Bones and soft tissue are too easily damaged for me to go toe to toe with a horse like that. There's a cute saying - "To train a horse, you have to be 10% smarter than the animal. With Arabians, fewer people qualify." :lol: Just a joke of course, but its true for any horse.

We all look around in our little world and pick people from it if we want help.
I do want someone holding the first time, I do want someone ponying me until I get a feel and then as a saftey issue I want that person on the end of the lead line the first few days. It is for my safety as well as the horse's.
I would have no problems crawling on Andre if A2 was the holder.Thanks Norval. Yep, that's the way I do it too. Always a handler the first few sessions. Setting the horse up to succeed is very important. I don't like putting them into positions where they are sure to fail.

[foxrider]

Yes, they're always allowed as far as I know, but the more experienced endurance riders could probably answer that better. There might be rules for Competitive Trail??? Not sure on that. I .

The only place I have seen a " no stallion " rule in competitive trail challenges is 4H.

[Kyzteke]

then why does a 150 pound girl get dragged by her heavy horse cross and then ask me at 190 to teach him some manners??

Because that 150 lb girl didn't know what she was doing.

On the track many of the TBs were well over 16hh. At that time I weighed about 125lbs. The jocks were below 120 & most of the exercise/pony people under 150lb.

Every horse had a chain attached to the halter, or over the nose, under the chin, or in extreme cases, through the mouth. The idea was NEVER to brutalize the horse, because even with that extra leverage if you went zonkers the horse would too and could STILL get away from you.

Instead, it just gave you alittle extra. Often just jiggling the chain to distract them worked well too, without putting any pressure at all on them.

And that's how you start just about every TB out there -- a person on the ground, a rider, the horse wearing a bridle with a halter (w/ chain) over it. All with much less ground work then is customary these days.

Unless you have a true bronc, that's going to work if all parties know what the heck they are doing.

AV2 -- lovely boy! I'm sure plenty of groundwork will sort alot of this out and if he's good at endurance and safe to ride, why not keep him whole? There aren't alot of stallions out there in endurance (or mares for that matter), so for future breeding ideas it's nice to see more. Personally, *I* don't want to ride a stallion in endurance, but I'm old....<g>.

As far as fencing -- my breeding stallion is behind two strands of electric wire and that's it. He's such a weenie that the thought of getting shocked is FAR worse than the allure of a mare. They aren't all that way, but many are.

Good luck!! Keep us posted on his progress.

[Kyzteke]

Yes, they're always allowed as far as I know, but the more experienced endurance riders could probably answer that better.

Sorry if someone has already answered this, but endurance (AERC) actually has a stallion award for most miles competed off a stallion in one year. It's called the Jim Jones award.

So all of you who didn't know that and compete -- pay attention whose butt you are parking next to.....

[Auventera Two]

Oh yeah Kyzteke, that's right. I'd heard of that award before, but forgot. The War Mare Award is for the mare with the most mileage and Jim Jones Award is for stallions. Yeah, I've ridden next to stallions on the trail, and camped next to one once also. They were always perfectly behaved. Just like any other competitor, I imagine they focus on their job and they know the difference in their endurance job and the breeding barn.

[Auventera Two]

AV2 -- lovely boy! I'm sure plenty of groundwork will sort alot of this out and if he's good at endurance and safe to ride, why not keep him whole? There aren't alot of stallions out there in endurance (or mares for that matter), so for future breeding ideas it's nice to see more. Personally, *I* don't want to ride a stallion in endurance, but I'm old....<g>.

As far as fencing -- my breeding stallion is behind two strands of electric wire and that's it. He's such a weenie that the thought of getting shocked is FAR worse than the allure of a mare. They aren't all that way, but many are.

Good luck!! Keep us posted on his progress.

That sounds like Andre, the electric fence is evil in his mind. Seeing how he lived behind 2 strands of electric wire for the last 8 years and never touched it, I'm not that worried about him. Anyway, I'm off to trim him and get some new photos. I'll post some after while if they turn out ok.

[grayarabs]

For some reason I feel that Arabians are the easiest to start under saddle - assuming they have been handled - ie frequent attention, grooming etc. OK - so I have only started one from scratch - a horse I bought as a yearling. I sat on him bareback a few times when he was 2. He had obviously seen me riding other horses and other horses being ridden - so when I ultimately got on him with saddle and bridle - I swear he was thinking, "its about time, Mom". I think the bond between the horse and rider are important. I also think the horse having observed other horses being ridden helps.
Otherwise, in general, I think an Arab is more likely to spook/shy than rear or buck.
In regards to stallions, I am remembering my late horse - he was a stallion until age 16 - ridden in dressage by a young teenager. I rode him/took care of him when he was a stallion - it was years later I found him as a starved gelding and bought him. I think gelding him kind of knocked the wind out of his sails. He was bolder as a stallion. I can really say he was about as perfect as a horse could be in all respects - even as a stallion. Folks could not believe he was a stallion - everyone assumed he was a mare. His size was Limazar - and I have heard over the years about folks with Limazar sons - they never bothered gelding them because they were of such good temperament. My guy had no interest in mares. He was bred a few times and as I understand it - had to be begged to breed. Unusual, I know. I wish when I had gotten my guy he was still a stallion - and at any rate - would not have bred him as I am pro rescue and against breeding "just because".

[pandorasboxx]

I really like this boy. Nice hip and bone.:)

[billiebob]

First of all, AV2, he's very cute and looks great.

Second, Shadow, if you'd like a lady to help you lift something heavy, come ask me. I can move roundbales by myself (generally around 800 lb) and I can unload a 2500 lb delivery of feed (in 100 lb bags) by myself. There's no reason for me to get a man to help. It's just faster if I do these things myself.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Lovely horse. Good luck with him.

[candyappy]

For some reason I feel that Arabians are the easiest to start under saddle - assuming they have been handled - ie frequent attention, grooming etc. OK - so I have only started one from scratch - a horse I bought as a yearling. I sat on him bareback a few times when he was 2. He had obviously seen me riding other horses and other horses being ridden - so when I ultimately got on him with saddle and bridle - I swear he was thinking, "its about time, Mom". I think the bond between the horse and rider are important. I also think the horse having observed other horses being ridden helps.
Otherwise, in general, I think an Arab is more likely to spook/shy than rear or buck.
In regards to stallions, I am remembering my late horse - he was a stallion until age 16 - ridden in dressage by a young teenager. I rode him/took care of him when he was a stallion - it was years later I found him as a starved gelding and bought him. I think gelding him kind of knocked the wind out of his sails. He was bolder as a stallion. I can really say he was about as perfect as a horse could be in all respects - even as a stallion. Folks could not believe he was a stallion - everyone assumed he was a mare. His size was Limazar - and I have heard over the years about folks with Limazar sons - they never bothered gelding them because they were of such good temperament. My guy had no interest in mares. He was bred a few times and as I understand it - had to be begged to breed. Unusual, I know. I wish when I had gotten my guy he was still a stallion - and at any rate - would not have bred him as I am pro rescue and against breeding "just because".

I think that each horse is an individual and the breaking /training should be handled as such. I have never had anyone hold a horse for first mounting as there has never been any need. we do so much ground work that they are ready for that next step. to say one breed of horse is more apt to be one way is really not fair to the whole breed.

[ThatScaryChick]

http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre%20May%2024%2009.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre%20Neck%20May%2024%2009.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre%20Trot%20May%2024%2009.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre%20Trot%202%20May%2024%2009.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre%20Grazing%20May%2024%2009.jpg

Congrats on your new horse. He's really beautiful!

[Shadow14]

[edit]
I also feel that those that spend alot of time doing ground work are just building their own confidence, putting off the 1 st mounting. I get it over with the first day so I know what I am in for. I don't dink around for weeks lunging or anything else. Straight off the trailer, a saddle thrown on his back and I am up.. I sleep that night knowing where I stand.
NONE of this is directed at you Vickey. NONE of it and I would love to have you hold for me but like everyone else you are too far away.
As for a stud chain across the nose, under the jaw or threw the mouth, I never ever do any of that. I use a soft cotton rope with just a snap on a regular halter or one rigged by me from said rope.
You will not find me using chains or anything else. The whip is strickly for loading, used to encourage forward motion.
When I went looking for Rio last fall they brought him out with a stud chain, I unclipped it and used my soft rope. I bought him shortly after and he never again felt a chain again for leading or anything else, never. Sorry curb chain.:D

Vickey I think he is beautiful and will gain pounds daily with your good care. I would really be anxious to get aboard and find out just how good he felt. Yes he is skinny but use a couple of thick saddle pads, put a western saddle on him and go find out. Wish you lived closer, I would be begging for the honor. His neck will fill out as his weight comes up as will everything else.
He already looks like an endurance horse:)
Glad Sweets was good for you and everything went well
I would love to here progress reports on his training.

[Kyzteke]

Oh yeah Kyzteke, that's right. I'd heard of that award before, but forgot. The War Mare Award is for the mare with the most mileage and Jim Jones Award is for stallions. Yeah, I've ridden next to stallions on the trail, and camped next to one once also. They were always perfectly behaved. Just like any other competitor, I imagine they focus on their job and they know the difference in their endurance job and the breeding barn.

Last year I spoke to quite afew owners of "endurance stallions." I own a daughter of a 2 time Jim Jones Stallion Award. I learned something very interesting from them.

All AERC awards are based on points (including the War Mare Award), except one -- the Jim Jones award. That is based simply on number of miles completed in one competition year. Doesn't matter if you were the last horse in the ride, you still get credit for the miles.

Apparently AERC set it up that way because of the fundamental difference between the "drive" of stallions & the "drive" between mares/geldings. It's most common for a stallion to really lose interest or drive in going down the trail, simply because in Nature, their "drive" is to get mares & protect the herd. They are very hard wired. So they tend to crap out at 30-50 miles -- psychologically if not physically.

I remember speaking to one stallion owner whose stallion did only 100's and pretty tough ones at that (Old Dominion, etc). He would do 4-5 a year and always place well.

But the award was won by a stallion whose owner took him out and did a fifty every few weeks -- never pushed him and took it real slow. They ended up doing more miles than the first stallion and so won the award.

I suppose everyone's idea of a good endurance horse is different, but I can see the first owner's point that her stallion might be better at the higher level of the sport than the other stallion.

[ponygrl25]

He is beautiful!!! wouldn't mind looking out my window and seeing him every day. He looks like he has all the important things that make a truly awesome horse, the kind you could never part with. Move at the speed you two are comfortable with and just enjoy the ride (pun intended). He will let you know what he is ready for. Have fun:winkgrin::winkgrin:

[TWHRackin]

Wow look at those pics! I'm just drooling over that gorgeous head. Lovely bone. I'm sure you'll be thrilled with him.
Best of Luck!

[Auventera Two]

That's interesting Kyzteke. Makes sense to me though, given that the stallion's role in the herd is different than the mares.

Thanks ponygrl25 and TWHRackin! He is just a really nice guy. He's handling every new thing right in stride and he really thinks about things instead of reacting first.

[SharonA]

[edit]

Enjoy your great guy, AV2; to me Andre looks already well on the way to gorgeous, and his temperament sounds stellar.

[edit]

[Auventera Two]

Andre is continuing to come along really well! I've been doing a lot of work with him and he now self loads in the horse trailer, stands for fly spray and bug sheets, rain sheet, fly mask. I taught him a "head down" cue to help combat the 18 foot giraffe neck he likes to use as an evasion tactic. :rolleyes: I've done all the preliminary tacking and untacking, laying over the saddle, teaching him to respond to pressure and move sideways, forward, or backward in response to the cues, etc.... He's learned to cross tie and hard tie to trees, and to the horse trailer. We've been taking walks through the trees and learning that bushy shrubery rubbing against our belly and ears will NOT kill us. ;) He's a little more aprehensive about stuff under the belly than my mares are - maybe because he feels he has to protect his luggage, I don't know. But he's getting much better about it. I'll probably start mounting up some time this week after we've done a few more days of ground work. For now he stands quietly at the mounting block while I lay over him and throw the rope over his ears and but, and so forth. He's so cute, he just stands there with one ear tipped backed trying to figure out what I'm doing to him.

The dentist is coming sometime this week or next, his teeth are pretty bad but her schedule is really full. He's picked up a little weight but until the teeth get done, I can't hope for much in the weight department. She's a superb dentist but it can take a couple weeks to get an appointment.

[Shadow14]

A2 you are just putting off the day that you have to ride him. Get a good helper/handler/male/female and get on him. I bet he will be a perfect gentleman and it will make your day.
He was made for riding and it seems to be in arabs. They tend to break very easy and him being mature I bet he will love it.
A2 lets hear about your first ride on Andre this week???????

[Auventera Two]

Norval, I'm not "putting off" anything. My method of training horses is to do preliminary ground work first, always done it that way, always will. I want leg and rein cues established from the ground first and I want a level of trust and confidence built in before I get on the horse's back.

[edit]

This poor thread doesn't stand a chance! :eek: :o :winkgrin: But some good lighthearted fun is always a good thing.

[Moderator 1]

We reined some of the recent comments in a tad, so this doesn't become a battle of the sexes and also stays appropriate for our general viewing audience. ;)

Congratulations on your new boy, A2!
Mod 1

[SmokenMirrors]

A2 what a beautiful boy you have! Very showy, very nice build and I am sure in no time you will be trailing around and seeing things and you both with have a really nice partnership with the time and effort your taking and the extra steps to ensure a good and safe trail mount.

Congrats!!

[ChocoMare]

Hubba Hubba :D

Can't wait to see him all fleshed out and under tack. Love the depth of bone in this boy! :yes:

[Auventera Two]

Thanks again everyone :) He's a really cool horse. I'm hoping his color darkens up next year with different feed and supplements. Sweets was a really cruddy color the first year I had her then darkened up a LOT with different feed. Dentist is coming on the 11th which makes me feel better to know that's scheduled.

[Auventera Two]

I have to get some video to post of Andre and how obedient he is. We do a lot of work with no leadline and he follows everything I do. I walk, he walks. I stop, he stops. I back up, he backs up. I trot, he trots. The mares are a bit like this too but this guy is absolutely intent on following his "mum." He's such a cool horse, have I said that already? :lol:

He's got a killer "trot out" on him already. :eek: All that halter training I guess. ;) Big fancy trot with the tail jacked up and neck arched. That should get us some overall "attitude" points for BC judging (I hope) :lol:

We did our first ride last night. I didn't do as much as I wanted because I was alone with no handler and no one home, but I actually liked it that way better. I worked with him for 1 1/2 hours on ground work, and parking him by the mounting block, dropping the reins and then messing all around him doing stuff without him moving a muscle. He got the hang of it pretty quick and would just stand there watching everything I did, with a hind foot rested.

I climbed on and off a bunch of times from both sides. Then got on and stayed on. Then had him walk around the yard and driveway. Two cars went by and he was perfect. A pack of bikes went by, and he was perfect. The dogs were playing and dodging in and out of the bushes, he didn't care about that either.

Wish I had pictures, but being alone, that didn't work out. Oh well, I'm lined up with a trainer next week and we're going to do a few sessions to get him going w/t/c and he's going to ride with me on trails for the first time also and we plan to do a couple hours at least.

I tied him up to a tree and went in the house and watched him for a few minutes. He watched the house intently like - where did she go........When I came back out he talked and talked and TALKED! He got his nose on me and rooted and nuzzled and smelled like he was being reaquainted with an long lost pasture mate. Too funny.

Anyway, just a little update. :) I think I really got a good one here! :eek: :D

[mustangtrailrider]

AV2, that is a great update. You are soo lucky. Not everyone has such a horse. How lucky he is as well. You have a wonderful, sensitive horse. Enjoy him.

[prudence]

A2 - good work riding him but really wait until someone's around next time! I absolutely love your boy and everything about him. What a shine you've put on him (just saw your pix - am late to this thread and should be working now but this thread is just so interesting!) From his pedigree he looks to be at least partially Egyptian and has that Egyptian look about him as well. Have fun on the trail!

[Auventera Two]

I was going to ask about the bloodlines, because I don't know much. I don't know anything about the sire line.

[prudence]

I think Nazeer is Egyptian; if you look back in the pedigrees of some of those horses in his dad's mom line there is CMK breeding. His mom's relatives look pretty Egyptian to me.

Please note I am not an expert whatsoever but am merrily throwing my hat into the bloodline quagmire. I hope someone else comes along who really knows their Arab bloodlines.

[Auventera Two]

:lol: Don't worry, you know a whole lot more than I do. I really only know anything about the Padron line because I've studied that one. As for the others, I would love for somebody to dig into it and give me all the specifics. :) This horse has a huge trot that just won't quit and I'd like to know if that's a characteristic of specific horses in his line. He moves completely different from Sweets even though they have the same dam.

[Bank of Dad]

http://www.arabiansporthorse.com/russian_arabian_horse_history.html

http://www.ansata.com/

http://www.majezticarabians.com/Moniet_El_Sharaf.html


http://www.camelotfarmsarabians.com/fp_risslix.html

He is mostly Egyptian lines. Excellent well known lines. Bright Shadow on the stallion side is Rissalix which is Crabbet/CMK. Most Crabbet originated from Egypt at some point. Rissalix was later crossed with Raffles/Indraff lines (Al Marah Arabians) and called the double R cross. Very nice and very expensive in the 60's. Rissalix was last owned by Dr. Randy Stoneback in PA.

So the stallion side Knouros is straight Egyptian on the male side, and Egyptian/Crabbet on the female side.

Your horse's dam lines are straight Egyptian.

You have a great horse there.

[prudence]

Egyptian Arabians are my favorite. Please keep us posted as to his progress!

[ride2endure]

A2, I'm happy to hear your first ride was a success!

Congratulations on your beautiful horse, once again. Can't wait to see new pictures!

[sonata]

I bred a 1/2 arab double R (one of Dr. Stoneback stallions) and had him for 25 years +. He had a trot to die for. It would stetch so much that it almost became a rolling trot and you could sit it out. No posting unless you wanted too. He was a good trail horse. Lots of common sense. He also spent the last few years of his life taking the greeny horses out and showing them the ropes. I have his younger sister (Raffles), but not double R which is proving to be the same type of trail horse. She is a bit more independent though. She goes along happily with or without company whereas my other arab really perferred to have company.

[Auventera Two]

[edit]

Andre is a lovely stallion with a superb disposition, impeccable ground manners, and a great mind. He's a joy to work with, and I am thrilled to own such a lovely animal. Horses are horses. They don't do everything perfect 100% of the time - I don't know a mare or a gelding that does either - do you? :confused: Don't know a kid, a dog, or an adult that does everything perfect 100% of the time either. Sucks to be mortal doesn't it? :winkgrin:

[edit] Saying a stallion is beautifully behaved, but likes to puff up and strut for the ladies is a contradiction? Since when?? How is he doing anything wrong by flagging his tail, tucking his chin and doing the big fancy trot down the fence line? And why is he a dangerous stallion because he went and ran some laps in his pasture with his tail flagged - gee - LIKE A HORSE - oh crap, maybe my mares are dangerous too because they did the same thing. I should probably go lock up that old pony who ran and bucked and flagged her tail too because clearly she's going to kill somebody someday. Good grief. [edit]

[JSwan]

[edit]

I foresee an unplanned breeding in your stallions future.

Hope your fences are strong, very tall, and solid. A stallion can breed through a fence if both parties are determined. ;)

[edit]

[Dazednconfused]

Most people I know that keep stallions don't put up six foot solid walls between them and other horses. An electric fence is perfectly appropriate containment for many stallions. Not all - but it's generally a pretty effective deterrent. Most stallions I know also puff up and snort and blow when turned out. It certainly doesn't mean they are difficult to handle or bad horses or should be geldings, or if they see a mare, or are going to jump the fence and breed anything they find. It seems a little ridiculous to me to get all up in arms over that...JMO...

[goeslikestink]

[edit] Saying a stallion is beautifully behaved, but likes to puff up and strut for the ladies is a contradiction? Since when?? How is he doing anything wrong by flagging his tail, tucking his chin and doing the big fancy trot down the fence line? And why is he a dangerous stallion because he went and ran some laps in his pasture with his tail flagged - gee - LIKE A HORSE - oh crap, maybe my mares are dangerous too because they did the same thing. I should probably go lock up that old pony who ran and bucked and flagged her tail too because clearly she's going to kill somebody someday. Good grief. [edit]


structing ther stuff a2 is posing to the females -- lets make it nice and clear for you a peacock which is a male bird will fan his tail out and truct his stuff when he sees a pea hen



a horse will struct and puff for the females if a stallion but it s not him you should be watchiing its your girls - as the too are displaying to him and the gil neddies are more tarttish you have nice big bum gaps in you fence line ------- only take one female for her to shove her bum through that when your not looking ----- so yeah having him next door to your mares is brillient stuff

[chaltagor]

Interesting how a horse's disposition changes from forum to forum.

[Minerva Louise]

AV2, he is absolutely ADORABLE! I am soooooo jealous...

[sdlbredfan]

He is gorgeous! Even though I know you have not asked, I wanted to put in my 2 cents' worth to say he definitely is breeding quality. The hothouse flowers that now are seen in the Arabian show ring are a travesty of what the breed was and should be. A horse with solid bone, good mind, and capable of athletic endeavor is much more worth breeding than most of the currently advertised Arabian stallions, IMO. I would say this fellow deserves to keep his jewels on that basis.
p.s. AV2, your way of starting a horse under saddle is way more effective, and less likely to create resistance and upset in the horse's mind than Shadows. I am glad you stuck to your guns and did it your way, the right way!

[Shadow14]

.
p.s. AV2, your way of starting a horse under saddle is way more effective, and less likely to create resistance and upset in the horse's mind than Shadows.


You know nothing about what I can create with my way of training. Absolutely nothing. In 3 months I create a horse that most horses take a life time to duplicate.

[MistyBlue]

You know nothing about what I can create with my way of training. Absolutely nothing. In 3 months I create a horse that most horses take a life time to duplicate
I wouldn't say absolutely nothing...most of us on here can read what you type. :winkgrin:

That's pretty talented though, even a horse takes longer than 3 months to create a horse. Although not quite a lifetime...more like 11 months give or take.

[JSwan]

Solid as in sturdy and functional - not sturdy like the Berlin Wall.

I know how stallions can act and don't have a problem with their natural behavior.

I have a problem with a very outspoken critic of horse slaughter keeping a so-so stallion intact - as there is only ONE reason you do so. So if she's smart she'll keep her mouth shut the next time someone brings up overbreeding as a factor in the unwanted horse population.

It's her horse and her business but if she wants to point fingers at others for the existence of slaughter - she'll want to rethink her choice of letting her new addition keep his boy toys. Most stallions make mighty fine geldings.

[edit]


Most people I know that keep stallions don't put up six foot solid walls between them and other horses. An electric fence is perfectly appropriate containment for many stallions. Not all - but it's generally a pretty effective deterrent. Most stallions I know also puff up and snort and blow when turned out. It certainly doesn't mean they are difficult to handle or bad horses or should be geldings, or if they see a mare, or are going to jump the fence and breed anything they find. It seems a little ridiculous to me to get all up in arms over that...JMO...

[JSwan]

[QUOTE=Shadow14;4149855 In 3 months I create a horse that most horses take a life time to duplicate.[/QUOTE]

Since you've informed everyone of criteria for graduation I'll assume that statement takes into account fatalities, injuries, and the horse's ability to dodge projectiles fired from your bb gun.


AV2 - cute horse - nice expression.

[Beasmom]

Oh dang. He's back. :sleepy:

[certifiedgirl]

What a nice looking horse. He looks better and better in every picture I see- and I'm a die hard TB fan- but thats one Arab I wouldn't mind seeing in my field either! :)

[Minerva Louise]

:mad:

I sure was enjoying how Auventura Two was sharing her progress with her beautiful new Arabian stallion.

Now this thread has devolved into a shouting match between people who are not going to change one another.

Poo. :(

[katarine]

Misty, I'm going to put you in a down/stay if you don't stop feeding the troll!

Shadow says he like and admires Vicki/A2 but he can't stop himself from talking about himself. Just IGNORE HIM.

Just IGNORE the shadow figure and have your normal threaded discussion....just work around the poop in the punchbowl.

I think Andre is rather cute in his tack :) Bay is my favorite color but to this day I've not managed to own one LOL

[CatOnLap]

hahaha. The folks with the stallion being kept behind electric wire were having an open house yesterday. As I rode by, they came out onto the road and frantically asked if I'd seen the bay horse anywhere? The bay horse being the stallion...

The bylaw in this area is that stallions MUST be contained in fences that are a minimum of 5 feet tall and a minimum of 3 bars or wire strands or the equivelent. The 2 other stallions I know within 3 blocks are properly contained and they STILL get out on occassion. Nature calls and that.

[Auventera Two]

Most people I know that keep stallions don't put up six foot solid walls between them and other horses. An electric fence is perfectly appropriate containment for many stallions. Not all - but it's generally a pretty effective deterrent. Most stallions I know also puff up and snort and blow when turned out. It certainly doesn't mean they are difficult to handle or bad horses or should be geldings, or if they see a mare, or are going to jump the fence and breed anything they find. It seems a little ridiculous to me to get all up in arms over that...JMO...

No kidding, good lord. I found a post on the breeder's forum by a woman who said her stallion is behind a 6 foot board fence with electric wire on top, surrounded by a deep ditch and a dense cover of bramble bushes - or some crap. Jesus if a stallion was that wild and crazy, Mr. HotPants would be getting the knife. Who wants to propogate that?

When I turn Andre out after a night in his stall, he makes a lap or two around with his neck arched up and tail flagged, sometimes he gets a very nice passage going on. Then he goes to his two toilet spots and checks to make sure nothing has changed, then he goes to the back corner and looks to make sure the gelding is still across the street. Then he finds the grass or hay and digs in. Wow, so dangerous. He might actually kill himself or others while doing this. LMAO

This stallion is 8 years old and lived behind just hotwire his whole life. It's all he's ever known and it is perfectly appropriate for HIM. Not every stallion, but he is a total weenie about electricity and would rather die than get a zap.

I don't purposely go out and purchase horses who are a danger to themselves and others. I tend to look for ones with good minds, solid dispositions, and are generally well behaved, well socialized, and safe. Don't you think that when I was looking for a 2nd endurance mount, I would chose one who possesses all those qualities and more? :confused: When you do that, you don't have live in fear of your horse going batshit crazy and killing themself or tearing down fences.

You guys are really something :eek: :lol: Wow. The horse's disposition does NOT "change from forum to forum." The horse's disposition is exactly the same as the day I brought him home - WONDERFUL. :) He's a super sweet horse with a great personality and work ethic, great manners, but gee he might act like a horse sometimes and need some training - or gee he might flag his tail and strut like he's the sexiest dude on the planet - oh the horror. :rolleyes: All you have to do is slip a halter on him and go to work and he's happy to have the attention. I've seen a lot of stallions and some of them are crazy and dangerous and others are just nice boys. Mine is very much the latter.

One of my favorites of all time was a QH stallion we looked at for breeding. The owner wouldn't allow us to touch him or get close. She stood there cranking on the stud chain trying to make him behave while we watched from 20 feet away. Yeah, ok. We threw his literature right in the trash.

[mp]

Auventera has already proudly posted that she has me on ignore, but I'm going to say this anyway ...

I've visited a lot of Arabian breeding farms. Some of the most respected ones in the breed. Not one had a stallion in a paddock or field that shared a fence line with mares. Not. one.

Most had 6 ft. or more between the stallion's fence line and ANY other horse. Not because the stallions were ill-behaved or crazy, but because they're stallions. And these breeders understand that stuff happens -- electric fences fail, the power goes out or a gate is left open. And then you might have little Bint Whoops or Ibn Surprise to deal with. It can still happen without a shared fence line, of course. But experienced people try to minimize accidents.

These same breeders advised us to keep one of the colts we bred intact because he was definitely stallion material, both by dint of his appearance and his bloodlines. But if we couldn't sell him (the only broodmare we had was his dam), to go ahead and geld him. Partly because it's more work to keep a stallion, but also because it's easier on the horse. But these were just people who had bred some of the leading Arabian sires (in the U.S. and in Poland) and had been breeding and handling horses for several decades or more. So, obviously they're being ridiculous, too.

And to keep this on topic, I've never had a problem catching my horses. They all walk up to me. Come to think of it, I don't have any problems catching other people's horses, either. I was told once upon a time to take my time, walk perpendicular to the horse's body if possible, and keep my eyes soft. It's always worked for me.

[sublimequine]

[edit]

Back to your scheduled programming, sorry to be off topic A2. That is cool that you found a relative of your girl, though. I'd love to find and meet a relative of my maresie. :)

[grayarabpony]

My horse's sire shares a fenceline with mares. Three-rail and post with hotwire. He was imported from Germany in '98, a very nice horse.

One thing to remember though -- if this stallion (Andre) used to be turned out with mares and now he's not, his behavior is likely to change.

[Auventera Two]

One thing to remember though -- if this stallion (Andre) used to be turned out with mares and now he's not, his behavior is likely to change.

He wasn't always. It just depended on what mares there were to breed, what time of the year it was, etc. He was moved around according to what the needs were. Sometimes he was with one mare, sometimes a few, sometimes alone.

And again, he's doing just fine, thanks for your concern. ;) I'm a big girl and don't need all the help from the keyboard quarterbacks. And Andre certainly is not the first stallion I've owned so lets keep it all in perspective.

[chaltagor]

I'm a big girl and don't need all the help from the keyboard quarterbacks. And Andre certainly is not the first stallion I've owned so lets keep it all in perspective.

Hey everyone, look at my first stallion!





Wait, why are you all talking about my stallion?




How dare you talk about my stallion!






SHUT UP ABOUT MY STALLION!!!!

[AnotherRound]

[edit]

Nice post, A2, looks like you take lovely care of your critters.

[Moderator 1]

We did a bunch of rearranging between this thread and another in horse care to keep some order and relevance to the two OPs. We also removed or edited some commentary in both threads.

This is a discussion forum, so comments made or practices described may be analyzed and/or commented upon. That's fine, but let's also please do so without getting personal.

Thanks,
Mod 1