Really low flying airplanes

[jodyb]

I was bringing in a 2 year old today when a low flying plane buzzed us. This plane looked way below the flight ceiling. I hadn't been anticipating any issues so just had a soft leather halter on her. When that plane came over us she freaked and there was no way to hold her. Fortuantely she was contained, fortunately she didn't go through a fence. I hate letting go and now I've got remedial leading work to go thru, argh. Yesterday I was riding and a similiar plane came through, different result 'cause the mare I was riding was more mature and the plane wasn't this low.

I believe the flight ceiling around here is 200 ft. My husband is a amateur radio guy and we have a tower that is 75 ft. This plane didn't look much over the tower so I have a reference to look at. Certainly this 2 yo needs to maintain her manners but it would have been soooo much easier if this plane was a bit further away! Any suggestions as to who I can complain to?

[Romany]

Unless you made a note of the #s on the plane, it's tricky to know where to complain. The plane could have been very local, flying from a private strip, or from out of state, etc.

You could try contacting the local airports. Maybe post your question on pprune.org - it's a pilots' forum, and someone there may be able to direct you wrt the legalities, etc.

I think there are also some pilots here who can point you in the right direction also.

A good rough estimate for future reference, though - if you can read the #s with the naked eye, chances are the plane is too low!

Glad you and your poor filly didn't have more of an accident.

[JumpWithPanache]

I'm a pilot and I can help you find some local airport information and their Fixed Base Operations. If the plane was really that low I would gues that they were in a landing pattern, or they could be crop dusters. In a rural area it is not unusual to have private grass strips with little airplanes buzzing around at odd hours.

Also, horses will get used to the airplanes. Mine lives on the runway end of Langley AFB with the resident F-15s and F-22s. When those 22s do their vertical take-offs they get LOUD, but critters ignore it. Even the big lumbering C-5s and B-2s are dealt with during the annual airshow with little more than a glance. Great training opportunity to ignore the airplane and help critter forget that it's an issue. It won't take long.

Feel free to PM me.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Yikes. I wouldn't like to be leading a two year old the first time she saw a low-flying plane.

The first time my two ever saw a low-flying plane was the Saturday our tenants sent a crop-duster over!:eek: Luckily, I found out it was coming about a half hour ahead of time and was able to use it as a "teachable moment.":) Glad I did, too - this morning a couple of fighter jets made a low run over the pasture. They make a lot more noise than a crop-duster but the little paint pony didn't do much more than prance around a bit.

Is there an airfield near you? If so, you might be able to find out from them when the next one's coming over.

[tle]

Also, horses will get used to the airplanes. Mine lives on the runway end of Langley AFB with the resident F-15s and F-22s. When those 22s do their vertical take-offs they get LOUD, but critters ignore it. Even the big lumbering C-5s and B-2s are dealt with during the annual airshow with little more than a glance. Great training opportunity to ignore the airplane and help critter forget that it's an issue. It won't take long.

Sounds familiar! in 2001 I was gearing up for a 3day and boarding at Wright-Patt AFB. A couple days after 9-11, we were doing gallop sets in a nearby field when we had a C141 (I think) doing touch & gos where they were RIGHT over our heads... low enough for me to smell the fuel!!

[Guilherme]

From the Federal Air Regulations, Part 91, General Operating Rules:

Sec. 91.119 - Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

If you have the "N" number you can make a complaint to you local Flight Standards Office. If you don't you're pretty much out of luck.

As noted by others, horses quickly adapt to aircraft (if they ever react to them at all).

G.

[jodyb]

Nope, I didn't read the numbers as I had my hands full with the filly. Yes, there is a private strip/plane subdivision about 5 miles south of me and the plane was heading south. That said after I posted (okay, vented ;) ), I hopped on my mare and saw a similiar plane heading north but at a little higher altitude and across the road from my arena. So, maybe not one of the plane owners at that strip. I will keep my eyes open for the numbers, thanks to those who suggested it:yes:

I agree with all of you, horses need to tolerate airplanes. I'm about 30 miles from Colorado Springs Air Force Academy and I do see some high powered low flying military aircraft. I guess I'll just have to have a little more, er, restrictive equipment on my little girl bringing her in from the field 'cause I don't know when a plane will come in low.

[jodyb]

Guilherme - Thanks for the good info. I know this plane was below 500 ft. I'll have to start looking for numbers.

I'm wondering too if my husband's tower doesn't kinda attract these planes. Perhaps if the pilot was flying off of landmarks. Any pilots care to comment?

[cloudyandcallie]

Try having mosquito control fly right over your head between the islands and the gun club. At least they weren't spraying and at least my horse, whom I was on, was used to it because,
at previous barn the army airfield guys would fly over very low on infrequent landing patterns, thankfully not every day, and
at another barn, the helicopters would circle to watch us ride in the ring.
Between mosquito control's little yellow airplane and the Hunter airfield, my 2 horses had no problems with planes.

[BuddyRoo]

While we were stationed in TX, my barn was only about 5 miles from base. The T-37's and 38's weren't much cause for concern. But when a B-2 (stealth bomber--the big triangular looking ones) came in for a 4th of July airshow, I about bolted myself. Just saw a great big shadow creeping up. LOL

I have far more trouble with low flying hot air balloons. LOL

Good luck with your youngster!

[mroades]

We are just across the river from MCAS..we have F-18's doing touch and go's over our farm all the time...fun stuff. We actually had the Blue Angels last weekend. The worst were some F-5E's that made the scariest noise we have ever heard...
and yes, the horses get used to it, but occasionally we do have one nut up the first time.

[Renae]

President Bush nearly killed me once. I was getting on a 2 year old in thr round pen outside for like the second time and his helicopter came over at tree top level when he was visiting Stillwater, MN as a campaign stop. Poor baby's belly nearly hit the ground! He just rolled his eyes up and tried to sink as low as he could. All of the horses at this farm are pretty used to planes as it is near the Lake Elmo airport, but a helicopter at tree top level was something new :mad:

[Spyder]

I live in the flight path for the naval base that's about 75 miles away. Sometimes the F-15s or whatever those fast little pocket fighters are fly so low that you can see their numbers. My horses have gotten so they don't even pick up their heads from the grass. Seriously no big deal.

With stuff like that, you either get your blood pressure up or regard it as a training opportunity. Keep your cool and your youngsters will take the "calm" cue from you.

[jodyb]

Hey, I did stay calm until the filly took a flying leap! I'm not new to this biz and I don't know why you would assume otherwise. As I have commented, horses need to get over this. That said, there is a flight ceiling and the planes don't have the right to almost land on me unless there's an emergency!

[Guilherme]

I'm wondering too if my husband's tower doesn't kinda attract these planes. Perhaps if the pilot was flying off of landmarks. Any pilots care to comment?

You're welcome in the information! :)

It's possible the tower is a "point of interest." There's a practice manuever called "turns around a point." The student pilot picks a point terrain feature (tower, small pond, road intersection, etc.) and then makes two, full turns around that point (720 degrees) at a fixed distance. He must maintain, altidude, airspeed, and compensate for wind to keep the aircraft on a circle (not an oval, octagon, hyperbolic paraboloid, etc.).

If this sounds remarkably like learning to ride a correct 20m circle it's because it is! ;)

It's usually not done a low altitude beause if the stud makes a mistake and stalls the aircraft (or has some other intersting event occur) the instructor wants to have the time to recover the aircraft before the ground rises up to smite them.

If you're five miles from a strip there's no reason for aircraft to be less than 800-1000 feet AGL (above ground level), standard pattern altitudes in the U.S., that far out. Even a C-5A or B-52 does not fly a 5 mile pattern.

Last, and far from least, "laymen" are notoriously bad at estimating aircraft height. I've been involved in investigating/reviewing a number of aircraft mishap reports and unless you've got an observer with significant experience observing aircraft from the ground the errors I've seen are really amazing (500-1000 feet errors being extemely common).

In a past life I was a civilian flight instructor, Navy Instructor Pilot, and a graduate of the Naval Aviation Safety School. And, as part of other training, I've spent some time with Landing Signal Officers working carrier aircraft both afloat and ashore. Been there, done that, don't you know!!! :cool:

If you have problems with frequent "low fliers" then a camera is your friend. Take the pictures, drive over to the local field, find the "office," and post them on a bulletin board with a request that folks watch their altimeters. If that doesn't work sent the photos to your local FAA Flight Standards Office. That will get some action.

Good luck. :)

G.

[MistyBlue]

President Bush nearly killed me once.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry, am not laughing at you but with you!
Because his wife damned near killed me a few years ago. She was in Connecticut speaking for some reason or another and for some odd reason the flight pattern out of CT for AF1 and the accompanying fighter jets was pretty close to my farmette.
Now the funny part it...my horses didn't care at all. However...all I could hear was this ridiculously loud aircraft and it was getting louder and closer sounding by the second. I was outside spinning around looking up at the sky because it sounded like a full size passenger jet was going to come crashing down somewhere darned close by! It got the point I had my hands over my ears...it was *that* loud. Finally spotted them...a good distance away but still low and was surprised at how freaking loud they were since it sounded like they were 20 feet over my head. I could still read the 2800 on the tail of the plane though. Took a couple minutes for my heart to stop being arythmic after that, LOL! (seriously, thought my entire property was going to be a crash site for a 747)

Now years ago in my youth we had low-ish airplanes go over the barn and fields on a regular basis and the horses did get used to them quick. They weren't super low though. Have to say very few horses got used to the hot air balloons that came over at least once a week in good weather though. Freaked out the entire stables...because the "pilots" (is that what you call the hot air ballon driver?) would always come in and float REALLY low so the people who paid for the ride could see the horsies in the pretty field! :o And the horsies did look like movie horses, running like freaks and hollering. If you tried to wave them off, they just waved back. We finally started making big signs on plywood and holding them up saying "Go away! Horses scared!" :lol:

[cloudyandcallie]

Wait till the Goodyear Blimp comes over. Once on a quiet Sunday morning, it appeared over the trees and quietly passed over us. Horses exposed to military aircraft and mosquito control planes and blimps should not be afraid of attack squirrels or killer frogs...............but they are.

[the_other_mother]

We had some low flying aircraft this morning---spraying for gypsy moths. They usually spray in the early morning hours when there is no wind. I thinik someone already mentioned crop dusters. When I boarded, my barn was right outside of an air force base so my guys got used to some really loud low flying aircraft and bombers, etc. It really paid off, they arent afraid of anything loud now!

[CB/TB]

Years ago we were stationed at Otis AFB on Cape Cod. The saddle club was right mid base, next to the golf course. Right beside the railroad tracks, near the firing range and , did I mention the tanks driving down the club driveway and the fighter jets taking off and landing within screaming distance? Never a dull moment and we truly had BOMBPROOF horses by the time we left! It still can be frightening to have something like that happen when you least expect it.Hope the "remedial work" goes well.

[subk]

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

If you're five miles from a strip there's no reason for aircraft to be less than 800-1000 feet AGL (above ground level), standard pattern altitudes in the U.S., that far out. Even a C-5A or B-52 does not fly a 5 mile pattern.
Could be a tail dragger which doesn't need an official "field." I own a Maule which is a bush plane--actually mr. subk owns it but we're a community property state :wink: When considering whether to land and/or if an area is appropriate we'll come in low like that--technically for the FFA it's an aborted landing even if we're doing a check out approach. So it's possible it was all legal and appropriate.

Before you run to the local airport with a rage-on remember one thing, general aviation folks have a whole lot in common with horse folks. We're both a little obsessed...

[deltawave]

I used to board at a place with an airstrip RIGHT next door for a small, private plane. The horses very quickly got used to being "buzzed". :eek: The pilot was sort of an ass about things . . . if he had had any sort of a tiff with the BO you could be sure the flight path for takeoff and landing was VERY low. :mad:

[Guilherme]

I know some folks in FL who breed Marchadors. Their place is right next to private airstrip that hosts, among other things, an F-86 (Korean War era jet fighter), a MiG 15 or 17 (Russian Korean War era jet fighter; only saw part of it from a distance so could not get a clean ID); P-51 (WWII era fighter), and a couple of business jets. Big money there, don't you know. :)

The Maule is supposed to be a pretty good airplane. I've never had a chance to fly one; I did learn in a tail dragger back in the '60s (Aeronca 7AC, IIRC; 65 horse, hand propped, no electrical system, air-ground communication system was to open the window and yell :lol: ). BC&H (Before Children & Horses) we had a Bellanca 260C. Nice machine. Sold it when we got hit with a $1200 prop AD and we didn't have $1200. :cry:

Again, if the problem persists the OP should do some detective work and see where the aircraft are coming from. Then see what can be worked out.

One way to make some friends would be to ask for some timed, coordinated fly overs as training sessions for the horses. Work out a set of ground rules (minimum altitudes, manuevers to be performed, etc.). This would be offering the pilots who might do it a "license to steal." ;)

G.

[nightsong]

I was amazed to find outhow frightened horses of laarrge things overhead. My guess is that it's an instinctual reaction to cougars jumping on their backs. MY particular initiation to this particular phenomenon was upon trying to lead a range-bred new acquisition to the vet's nearby. Kites were flying. OhmyGod, it's pterodactyls!!!

[cssutton]

A person with no knowledge of airplanes should do a little investigating and ask questions before going off the deep end.

First question: Was engine speed constant the entire time the plane was in sight?

If the engine was at reduced power as the plane approached, it could be that the pilot was practicing engine failure technique. I assume that students have to learn the same basics I had to learn over 50 years ago.

If this is the case, you may have a pasture that looks good from the air as an emergency landing area in the event of engine failure.

So if the plane is gliding when it approaches and then at that low altitude the pilot pours on the power and climbs, you are being used as a training area for a failed engine.

If that is the case, simply go to the nearest airport and ask the instructors to use some other area.

If the pilot does not change power settings, you may be getting buzzed because you are living next to some young pilot's girl friend. That is a different thing, but it usually is indicated by multiple passes, steep turns at low altitudes.....and eventually someone getting killed. But that is not likely.

If you are new to the area, you might ask whether you are on a pipeline or power line patrol route. Those guys do fly at tree top level because they need to see in detail the condition of the lines. If this is the case, forget complaining.

Type of aircraft is important. Crop duster? High performance single (Beech Bonanza, Mooney, various Pipers, etc.?) Antique? Light twin?

Type is important because type is usually related to mission which is usually related to behavior.

CSSJR

ABOVE ALL:

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[cssutton]

I forgot to mention ultralights.

If it is an ultralight, you have another totally different situation.

CSSJR

But again:

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[ReSomething]

I like Guilherme's idea to get a cooperative pilot to come on over and do some desensitising.

We had model airplane fliers, the free-flying scale model kind. Horse not afraid of them, operators afraid of horse stepping on the model. And kites - this was just at the introduction of aerobatic kites, great big, noisy, long tails, swooping and diving things. Now that was an interesting trail ride!:eek:

[jodyb]

Thank you all for your suggestions. My horses are used to airplanes, just not this close. I've decided to keep an eye out and if any plane comes in really low I will try and get the number off the plane. Let me assure you all that this is not consuming me and I'm moving on. I am not the neighbor who wants to tell every one what to do. I've done battle with a home owners assn and ended up selling and moving to my 35 non covenanted acres! Thanks again for the suggestions and info. Jody

[yellow-horse]

I used to board t the end of a runway, the runway had been there before the horse farm was built, there was a feud between the bo and air strip owner that went of for years but you really can't blame the guy with the airplane for her building her ring right at the end of his strip, anyway he also had a hot air balloon business. All horses got used to it, she had a few babies every year and they got used to it.
the funniest thing was one day, a very quiet day no one around i was trying to back up the tractor with the manure spreader on it and just had it all messed up after many attmepts to back it down the aisle of the barn and i kept hearing laughing, had no idea where it was coming from until i looked up and saw the balloon hovering overhead

[cloudyandcallie]

I used to board t the end of a runway, the runway had been there before the horse farm was built, there was a feud between the bo and air strip owner that went of for years but you really can't blame the guy with the airplane for her building her ring right at the end of his strip, anyway he also had a hot air balloon business. All horses got used to it, she had a few babies every year and they got used to it.
the funniest thing was one day, a very quiet day no one around i was trying to back up the tractor with the manure spreader on it and just had it all messed up after many attmepts to back it down the aisle of the barn and i kept hearing laughing, had no idea where it was coming from until i looked up and saw the balloon hovering overhead

That was the time to have had a bow and arrows.:lol:

Hey wasn't there a thread awhile back about shooting down a plane in Great Britain?

[~DressageJunkie~]

If you are new to the area, you might ask whether you are on a pipeline or power line patrol route. Those guys do fly at tree top level because they need to see in detail the condition of the lines. If this is the case, forget complaining.

I was also going to mention pipline and power line routes. Our barn is very close to our pipeline, (but legal distance from it) so we often have a guy flying over checking the line. Horses don't even blink an eye, even the hot Saddlebred. We also have a private runway across the road and he enjoys circling overhead. A few times I have about had a heart attack waiting for a plane to hit the house!

[sk_pacer]

I'll see those low flying planes and raise you low flying fighter jets - strange looking black things flying lower than 1000 feet and possessing screaming loud jets, and one loopy crop duster who uses roads as landing strips and NOTHING compares to seeing a plane bearing down on you through your rearview mirrors. Additionally, there are the usual suspects flying low - ag dept, water corp, power company, pipelines, wildlife and oil companies. The worst has to be the air bases with their assorted odd looking and odd sounding jets simply because where I live is overlap area for three air bases - one Canadian and 2 US

[fordtraktor]

I've always been surprised at how WELL the horses take low-flying airplanes! They freak me out but seem to bore the horses. They look at me as if saying "Dude, what's the big deal?! Chill."

Our farm is one ridge over from an airport and in farm country, so we get the occasional landing plane or DEA helicopter.

[Montanas_Girl]

I was sitting on my horse at the ingate of a show last month - feet out of the stirrups, reins on the buckle, etc. - when we were buzzed by half a dozen fighter jets at a very low altitude. :eek::eek: I nearly had a heart attack. Fortunately, none of the horses batted an eye.

My guy has no issues with planes, jets, helicopters, gunfire, or cannons (yes, cannons!). Shrubs and bushes, on the other hand, can elicit complete meltdowns. I do not even pretend to understand him.

[Lori]

When I had my first farm in Brandy Station, some smart-arse in a small plane came swooping down overhead when I was riding my fat pony through the open field. Luckily, my pony just kept on trucking like nothing had happened.

[Frank B]

We used to board just across the ridge from Thunder Valley & Bristol Motor Speedway. Between the NHRA, NASCAR, and the associated blimps, F-15s, and WW2 warbirds, we had the most bombproof horses in the area.

Fortunately, the ridge kept them from having to watch this CAR-nivorous beast (http://www.megasaurus.com/)!
(Be sure to click on the video)

[Over the Hill]

Our farm in Palm City was very close to the Fla Turnpike and seemed to be the turn-around point for all the air craft participating in the annual three day air show. My horses didn't seem to be phased by all the planes, even the jet fighters in formation, although the noise about drove me crazy. The pilots were low flying, but not alarming, but I always kept an eye out. During one show, they were supposed to have a visit by a stealth bomber. . . so I was especially vigilant. What a sight !!! He was so low that I could see the bolts holding it together, but hardly any noise. I ran out to watch the horses reaction, thinking that surely this would unhinge the whole silly herd, and they looked up at it and watched it go over, then went right back to grazing. . .

Was not the same case however when a huge helicopter with no markings on it whatsoever kept hopping over the adjacent trees and down almost to ground level over our pasture, the wash from the blades blowing everything around.; the noise level incredible. My horses (TBs and Arabs) went beserk each time he did this. I called the Sheriff's department and the local airport and reported this unmarked plane. I was so insistant that they finally told me that they were conducting a raid on an adjacent property (drug related) and they needed to "hide" the plane. I guess that I raised quite a stink about it, because later in the day, I had a visit from the Sheriff himself, and several other individuals, one the pilot of the copter, to apologize for terrorizing the livestock.

We also always had hot air balloons and both the GoodYear and the MetLife blimps would cross the property often, but the only critter who took unberance with them was my Irish Wolfhound who would bark like crazy at them and chase them off the farm!