Things to consider when leasing the "greenie"

[Empressive Award]

I've been considering leasing my horse once we have finished "basic" training. She will have had 6 months of consistant work and training by a professional consisting of Dressage basics and just beginning some jump work, as well as consistant work at home, including groundwork and trailriding.She will have a decent amount of exposure to various disciplines, both english and western.

But technically because she lacks the "miles" she is a greenie, but with my work schedule I just don't have the time I wish I had to commit to putting those miles on her and showing her.

What's the best way to advertise a green horse with exceptional talent? What should I look for in the rider? Is it appropriate to charge a lease fee or do a free lease?

I would like to see her succeed in the Hunter/Dressage ring but if she shows talent for jumping/eventing I would most likely lease her to an advanced rider, but is there a market out there for young horses just starting out? Would allowing an intermediate rider just set myself up for disaster?

For those that have leased their younger horses, do you strictly do on farm leases only or are you willing to do an off farm lease?The barn we are moving to at the end of the month is a wonderful facility with an arena. Do most people in the market for a lease prefer to come out to the barn JUST to ride, or would it be appropriate to make a stipulation of the contract be that he/she must help care for the horse such as feeding X number of days, grooming, etc.??

What things did you put in your contract or wish you had put in your contract?

Looking for some opinions, pointers, and shared experiences! Thanks in advance!

[TropicalStorm]

I'd be really interested to hear these replies too, as in the next couple of months, I'll probably be looking at leasing out my 4 year old. I've been toying with the idea of a free lease, just because I can't really imagine someone wanting to pay for the care of the horse PLUS a lease fee for the priveledge of riding my totally green 4 year old :D If I could find a rider who had some skills that was able to work with a young horse. Because in my mind, I'm giving them a horse that has quite a bit of talent and that they can show, but I'm also (hopefully) getting some miles and training on my youngster at the same time, so hopefully a win-win.

In my mind, I'll be looking for a person who would be willing to stay on the property. (luckily, we have a large facility with very good training, so that shouldn't be too hard) I'd expect them to take one lesson a week. And as its a free lease, I expect them to care for him like he's their own; so feed him, brush him, be responsible for at least 1/2 of his farrier work. That's my ideal lease. But we'll see how it goes ;)

[BuddyRoo]

I think some things to remember are:

1) You have a green horse. What happens right now could make it or break it. As such, I would not be willing to do anything offsite unless I personally knew the lessor, BO, trainer, etc. I would be much more comfortable with an onsite 1/2 lease or some such. Screwing up training, diet, feet, etc right now could be career ending for the horse.

2) Your market is narrow. You need an intermediate to advanced rider who isn't going to panic over green bean mistakes and isn't going to screw your horse up. They call most of those people "trainers" and you end up paying for them. LOL In this market especially, I think I would be putting a bug in all the pro's ears in your area--to see if they have a pretty good student who is in need of a ride. If you can find someone who is good, I'd offer a free lease if it came down to it. If your goal is to put good, safe, solid, positive miles on the horse then you are essentially shopping for a good rider....horses are cheap right now.

[Bayou Roux]

Double ditto on what Buddy Roo said.

[Lucassb]

In that situation, I would ask around and see if any pros you respect have any horseless working students that might like a project. That way you have some assurance that the horse will be maintained in a professional program that you respect, and both the horse and rider will benefit.

Beyond that, I don't know too many good riders who are dying to pay the bills on someone else's green horse ... I do know plenty that *think* they are good but really just want something cheap or free to ride...

[Pirateer]

I agree.
Find a trainer who has a good program, see if they have a teen or adult that needs a ride and is GOOD. Don't expect money, just free lease.

That person is likely to put a LOT of money into YOUR horse for board/expenses/showing/lessons/training. You shouldn't be profiting from it also since you don't have to pay to get your horse trained.

[XenophonKnows]

What BuddyRoo said, and really, you would be lucky to find someone willing to come to YOUR facility to ride YOUR green horse for free. Forget about getting someone to pay $ for the horse's upkeep.

And, really, plenty of people think they have a "really talented" horse. How is it "really talented ?" If the horse is truly that talented, then yes you should be willing to send it off if you were lucky enough to find the working student of a BNT who needed a horse and could afford the upkeep.

Other people looking at leases are adults who work full time jobs, and would likely be as interested in the social aspects of the situation as much as anything else. If you found one who could ride well enough, that would be your best bet for getting $ contribution out of the lessee. But, don't expect that this person is going to train your horse. You could get the benefit of being able to say, down the road, that your 4 year is so super safe, etc. that an AA leased it and did well, etc.

At my farm there is an AA who ride greenies, etc after work and on the weekends. She is a very experienced German woman who makes a significant contribution to the Trainer she "works" for by riding when he is out of town, etc. She gets to ride a handful of horses, he gets help. No $ changes hands. She rides very well.

There a plenty of 'talented' young horses. Few and far between is the individual horse that goes all the way, heck, few even make it part way.
As mentioned before, the economy/market is not good.

[RockinHorse]

It sounds like you are trying to get free training for your horse. Unfortunately, you usually get what you pay for.

[BuddyRoo]

Well that's not always true--that you can't get someone to pay and install some buttons on your horse.

I half leased my mare out while I was working overseas and that gal that leased her had been a trainer professionally until she had a child. She'd been out of horses for a bit and wanted a steady eddy trail horse to hack around on. when I came back, I had a horse with some serious buttons! Up til then, I'd done mostly cattle work, trail, western stuff....but when I came home she was going over fences and pulling off some nice low level dressage stuff.

When she got injured, same lady rode my green bean. AND wanted to jump her so paid half of the board at a training barn for additional training.

You CAN find those people...you just have to look pretty hard. It was a win win for us.

I have leased out both of my horses several times now though and only in one case did the horse end up benefiting like that.

In this market especially, I can see where it might be tougher. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try!

I was only pointing out some things to think about because you don't want to throw some whackadoo with crazy training ideas up on your green horse and ruin it. You really DO need to find someone a little more qualified.

Good luck!

[Empressive Award]

Thanks for the input! I think I will stick with my first thought about doing a free lease, or maybe finding a working student/advanced rider who needs or wants some ride time. I'm not asking for that person to continue her training because I'm rather picky about that since she was already with a trainer who had allowed her to get away with things and fortunately I was able to correct.

I think the idea about requiring the person to take a lesson or have a trainer present is great too, def. Something to remember.

For those of you who allow your greenies to go off site, how far away from home did you let them go and did you check in often in person? Or did you leave them alone and have a little faith and trust?

[mvp]

The leasee is de facto your horse's trainer. Do you want him/her supervised by the trainer you have now? Do you want to have some say in how the leasee trains, day to day, or do you want him/her to make those decisions independently?

I'd say find the right rider, the one who would do as your trusted trainer would. That means your horse might stay at your current barn. If you find the right person somewhere else, And have time to go watch and check progress once in a while, And like the other facility, I wouldn't hesitate to move your horse for the right person.

I would not ask for a lease fee. Not sure what this might do to the ammy's status, but I would offer to pay show costs and entries if the leasee and you decide your horse would benefit from an outing.

You can find what you want for free, but you need to remember how much time money and effort that good ammy put into developing the skills you want. That ought to be worth something, even if it's not cash. Treat him or her very well because your horse will come back improved.

[RockinHorse]

I'm not asking for that person to continue her training because I'm rather picky about that since she was already with a trainer who had allowed her to get away with things and fortunately I was able to correct.



IMO, anyone who is riding a greenie is continuing the horse's training.

[InstigatorKate]

I've done this before and made it work. In my case, the horse is one I bought as a weanling. He only matured to 15.1 (less than the 16h I was expecting), smaller than I feel comfortable showing. I could sell, but he's a nice horse and I love his mind, so I'm holding onto him for now and finding a more suitable horse for me. I leased him out after putting 3 months on him as a 4yo. He's coming 6yo and on his 2nd full lease stint. You'll want to find someone who's riding you like and who will be getting regular instruction from a trainer you agree with.

In his first lease situation, my horse ended up not getting the show miles I wanted. I toyed around with offering an incentive to show (ie Lease was $125/mo plus all expenses, but $25 discount for each show attended, $50 for each horse trial up to amount of lease.) I ended up not implementing that, but am curious if it would work, so let me knw if you use it.

Right now, I have a great agreement. The lessee shows when she can, and if she doesn't want to/can't afford to show, I take one of my friends who is a great, and very competitive rider, and she shows while I pay expenses. She appreciates the show time, and the horse gets shown, increasing his value. Since this only happens every 1-2 months, there hasn't been any friction so far. The lessee has shown up and enjoys watching the horse compete.

One word of caution is that the horse is fully insured. I make sure that I control the payments to the insurance company, and they get paid whether or not the lessee happens to be late with her payment to me. I find this comforting as in an emergency situation, I want to be sure there are no surprises.

ETA: The first time he went about 50 miles away. I checked up on him several times the first 2 months, then maybe every 2 months afterwards. Right now he's being leased at my barn (backyard-type place), but she is considering moving to another local barn, which is fine with me.

[Empressive Award]

Kate I like that suggestion about the discount for showing. I may try that further down the road.

I guess what I'm looking for is a rider who wants ride time and has the experience to handle a young horse and wants to help finish her with the potential to lease her long term (for the right person). my background is in western and while I think she would succeed at both, I think she is better built and has the movement for hunters and dressage.

There's a huge pool of college aged/20 somethings in this area who are home from school in the summer or are working as working students and want something they can ride for free and put their "experience" into. I'm not necessarily looking for someone to advance her. Just put the miles into what she already has. If she advances that's great but I'm not expecting someone who would be leasing her for free to do that.

Would it be just dumb to not have insurance on her when I do lease her out? I don't have it on her now and haven't had the need for it yet. I've got her papers but she technically doesn't have a "value" in this economy and most insurance companies are asking me for her worth.

[IronwoodFarm]

You definitely can insure your horse. All carriers have a justification of value form which includes information on show and breeding record. For a young horse, the advertised price of horses of the same breed, age, gender and ability will give you a base line value.

[InstigatorKate]

Would it be just dumb to not have insurance on her when I do lease her out? I don't have it on her now and haven't had the need for it yet. I've got her papers but she technically doesn't have a "value" in this economy and most insurance companies are asking me for her worth.


I guess it depends on whether you can afford to replace her should something happen. IMO the insurance is something for the protection of both Lessor and Lessee. In the event that there is a serious or catastrophic injury while the lessee is riding, then the insurance can make sure there is minimal financial damage to either party. If you choose to go the no insurance route you'll want to make it very clear in your contract exactly who is responsible for what vet bills.

It sounds though like you might be leaning more towards just having someone come and ride your horse rather than doing a true lease agreement. In that case, you would probably stay responsible for all expenses vet or otherwise. And therefore would not need insurance if you were comfortable going that route.

I valued my horse at 11.5k, his full mortality is 340/year, with major medical being another 100 on top of that. $35-40/month is a small price to pay for peace of mind (especially when the lessee is paying).