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View Full Version : Jumpers - Walking Horse Up to Fences Before Whistle?



oldbutnotdead
May. 18, 2009, 03:00 PM
Under USEF/other national rules, is it legal for a competitor to walk his or her horse up to jumps on course, allow the horse to see, and perhaps sniff the fence and flowers, do this several times at several fences, then, after the whistle blows, cross the start line then proceed to the first fence?

If it is legal, is doing this in "poor form" or "poor sportsmanship?"

thizzelledance
May. 18, 2009, 03:02 PM
i don't believe it's legal, but people usually aren't penalized for it

RxCate
May. 18, 2009, 03:03 PM
If you watch any of the grand prix's on tv, (when they actually show them) you'll see them walking around the arena letting the horses see the jumps, but usually it's pretty inconspicuous. I would think it's legal, but I wouldn't take a long time letting them see each jump. There are sometimes warm-ups allowed in the competition ring over those jumps, but that just might be at the lower levels.

Pickapace
May. 18, 2009, 03:22 PM
for jumpers it doesnt matter, but for eq / medals i usually do it descretely. like, walk them next to the fence while bending their head a little bit twords it, just so that they can get a peek at it.

HARROLDhasmyheart
May. 18, 2009, 03:40 PM
You are allowed to walk around before the whistle blows, and if you want to discretely let your horsie sniff a fence or two, so be it. However, it would generally be frowned upon to stop in front of a particularly 'suspicious' fence for a prolonged period of time--the moral of the story is, if you are going to do it, go ahead and do it...but don't take all day.

Janet
May. 18, 2009, 03:53 PM
Why do people keep saying whsat they THINK is legal instead of just looking it up?

MHM
May. 18, 2009, 04:18 PM
It's legal in the jumper division.

From the time the whistle or tone sounds, you have 45 seconds to cross through the timers, and you can do whatever you want in those 45 seconds. If you don't cross the start in that time, the clock starts running without you, increasing your odds of time faults.

HermanPeanut
May. 18, 2009, 04:20 PM
It used to be illegal to show your horse a fence in the jumpers. The rule was removed a few years ago so now it is ok. I don't personally think that it is bad form.

enjoytheride
May. 18, 2009, 04:42 PM
Legal, often done, and not frowned upon. People riding Grand Prix and in the Olympics do it all the time.

Lucassb
May. 18, 2009, 05:19 PM
Why do people keep saying whsat they THINK is legal instead of just looking it up?

I am glad I am not the only one who wonders this.

The rule book is online folks... feel free: http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

Portia
May. 18, 2009, 05:51 PM
Not illegal in the jumpers at all. They can look and sniff and even touch (if you have time and do not alter the jump in any way).

"Addressing a jump" is, however, now expressly listed as a major fault in the hunters (HU135.2.f).

3eme
May. 18, 2009, 06:03 PM
Not illegal under FEI rules.

I have a mare that likes to LICK the scary fences before the bell rings! :D

Mara
May. 18, 2009, 06:05 PM
Not illegal in the jumpers at all. They can look and sniff and even touch (if you have time and do not alter the jump in any way).

"Addressing a jump" is, however, now expressly listed as a major fault in the hunters (HU135.2.f).

Kind of funny that they stuck the clause in about "not altering the jump in any way". I have this image of, say, Beezie Madden dismounting and removing a top rail, then hopping back on in time for the whistle! Or yanking some flowers out or something.

MHM
May. 18, 2009, 06:13 PM
Kind of funny that they stuck the clause in about "not altering the jump in any way". I have this image of, say, Beezie Madden dismounting and removing a top rail, then hopping back on in time for the whistle! Or yanking some flowers out or something.

I can think of a couple of people who might try something like that, but I don't think Beezie would be among them.

MissIndependence
May. 18, 2009, 06:15 PM
Totally legal, totally acceptable. Nothing "unsportsman-like" about it.

IsolaBella09
May. 18, 2009, 06:47 PM
Not illegal. Very common to do.

iridehorses
May. 18, 2009, 08:25 PM
agreeing with many. it is legal, however back in 2005ish i think it may have been illegal? (thats whaty someone said).
if theres a scary jump, i do it, friends have done it, olympic riders do it. its very acceptable in the jumpers

hr
May. 18, 2009, 10:06 PM
I am glad I am not the only one who wonders this.

The rule book is online folks... feel free: http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

Okay, it is probably just me, but I just read the entire jumper division rules, and can't find anything addressing this issue. Can anyone please tell me what page it is on? We had an issue with this problem at a schooling show last summer, and couldn't convince the judge that the rule had been changed. And she was a rated show judge.

Janet
May. 19, 2009, 10:21 AM
Okay, it is probably just me, but I just read the entire jumper division rules, and can't find anything addressing this issue. Can anyone please tell me what page it is on? We had an issue with this problem at a schooling show last summer, and couldn't convince the judge that the rule had been changed. And she was a rated show judge.

That is the point. They TOOK OUT the text that make it illegal.

Since there is no text saying that it is illegal, it is now legal.

If your judge is still unconvinced, she (or you) should call USEF for clarification.

LegoMyMego
May. 19, 2009, 11:58 AM
Legal or not, I think it's stupid.

It's like saying, "Here horsey. This is what you need to be afraid of."

Portia
May. 19, 2009, 01:23 PM
In most cases when people do it, it's like saying "Here horsey, here's what you don't need to be afraid of, it's really not going to bite you." ;)

Some horses may jump something if they don't realize it's there until they're right on top of it, like water, but if they can see it coming they have plenty of time to decide it's Evil and should not be approached. Those are the ones who benefit from being shown it in advance before being asked to jump it.

The fact that the prohibition was taken out of the jumper rules, so that showing the horse is jump is now legal in the jumper ring, is one reason why the prohibition is now expressly include it in the hunter rules. "Unwritten rules" may be OK when it comes to what color coat you wear, but not so much when it comes to what you actually can and can't do in the show ring.

Janet
May. 19, 2009, 01:56 PM
Legal or not, I think it's stupid.

It's like saying, "Here horsey. This is what you need to be afraid of."
It is usually more
"Don't be surprised when you see this".

LegoMyMego
May. 19, 2009, 03:20 PM
It is usually more
"Don't be surprised when you see this".

Whatever....maybe it's done in this country but I spent 4 years training and showing in Germany and it's NOT done there. I think if I did that before a round my coach would have just walked away from the ring in disgust! In fact, a lot of the nonsense that is done in the U.S. is not tolerated over there.

And huh, funny how Germany always seems to produce top riders....coincidence? I think not.

Janet
May. 19, 2009, 03:28 PM
Not illegal in the jumpers at all. They can look and sniff and even touch (if you have time and do not alter the jump in any way).
I actually came across a case of this (altering the jump) when I was apprenticing (in eventing). Upper level rider comes in, notices that one of the fences has a partially dislodged top rail. Rather than calling for the jump crew, he pushes it back into the cup with his foot. In the end the decision was that, while it would have been clearly illegal in jumpers, there was no actual rule against it in Eventing.

Individualblue07
May. 19, 2009, 03:30 PM
Kind of funny that they stuck the clause in about "not altering the jump in any way". I have this image of, say, Beezie Madden dismounting and removing a top rail, then hopping back on in time for the whistle! Or yanking some flowers out or something.


Haha I had the same image in my head when I read that too!!!!

:lol:

3eme
May. 19, 2009, 03:34 PM
Whatever....maybe it's done in this country but I spent 4 years training and showing in Germany and it's NOT done there. I think if I did that before a round my coach would have just walked away from the ring in disgust! In fact, a lot of the nonsense that is done in the U.S. is not tolerated over there.



Really? I am surprised. I have seen it done in France, Belgium, and (I think) Holland (never been to Germany), so it's not only done in the States. Its done all the time, national and CSI level from what I have seen.

How long ago were you there? I know that a few years ago in France it was illegal according to the national rules. The year the rule changed, not everyone was aware of it right away so 'jump lookers' sometimes got comments or looks. Now, however, totally acceptable. In fact, as soon I enter the ring, my coach (a BNR) can be heard yelling things like 'go show her the panel fence / natural oxer / number 3 / whatever' !! , and is never a problem.

If it has been a while since you rode there, things may have changed. I'd be curious to know.

eclipse
May. 19, 2009, 03:47 PM
Whatever....maybe it's done in this country but I spent 4 years training and showing in Germany and it's NOT done there. I think if I did that before a round my coach would have just walked away from the ring in disgust! In fact, a lot of the nonsense that is done in the U.S. is not tolerated over there.

And huh, funny how Germany always seems to produce top riders....coincidence? I think not.

Interesting, because I have personnaly seen Ludgar Beerbaum showing his horses jumps in the International Ring at Spruce Meadows!! ;)

MyGiantPony
May. 19, 2009, 03:47 PM
Well, here's the link to the German Equestrian Federation.

My German is WAY too rusty to translate...but I think the rule book is there if anyone is fluent.

http://www.pferd-aktuell.de/

foursocks
May. 19, 2009, 05:11 PM
Horses aren't robots. They are too stupid. :lol: Seriously, though- why would letting a horse- a sensitive, not hugely intelligent animal that you are about to ask to jump a bunch of weird, random stuff at speed- take a quick peek at something startling when you walk past it be considered wrong? Um, or immoral, I guess, according to our German friend?

Mine is a looker, and we absolutely stroll around in our 45 seconds. I don't ever stop him dead in front of anything, but one good stare as we walk past is usually enough to convince him the jump isn't hiding a murderer with a knife.

nycjumper
May. 19, 2009, 08:25 PM
Whatever....maybe it's done in this country but I spent 4 years training and showing in Germany and it's NOT done there. I think if I did that before a round my coach would have just walked away from the ring in disgust! In fact, a lot of the nonsense that is done in the U.S. is not tolerated over there.

And huh, funny how Germany always seems to produce top riders....coincidence? I think not.

Huh.. pretty sure some other countries besides Germany are producing top riders ;)

And if you think it's stupid, don't do it. No one really cares. But if someone wants to do it, it's legal so they have every right to do it.

tyedyecommando
May. 19, 2009, 11:43 PM
I am glad I am not the only one who wonders this.

The rule book is online folks... feel free: http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

Trick question?

Always a reminder that you never know who is on the other side of the keyboard and this is not the first place I have seen incorrect information posted by posters who think they know the correct answer. It's right in there with the "illegal bits".

As to the other issue, while I do firmly believe in jumping the jump the first time every time. I do also believe that if there is something simple you can do to prevent a stop of a rail, you do it.

Release First
May. 20, 2009, 02:54 AM
Whatever....maybe it's done in this country but I spent 4 years training and showing in Germany and it's NOT done there. I think if I did that before a round my coach would have just walked away from the ring in disgust! In fact, a lot of the nonsense that is done in the U.S. is not tolerated over there.....

Meredith did it to several jumps at the World Cup.

MHM
May. 20, 2009, 07:47 AM
Meredith did it to several jumps at the World Cup.

Must be her American roots showing! :lol:

M. O'Connor
May. 20, 2009, 08:14 AM
Whatever....maybe it's done in this country but I spent 4 years training and showing in Germany and it's NOT done there. I think if I did that before a round my coach would have just walked away from the ring in disgust! In fact, a lot of the nonsense that is done in the U.S. is not tolerated over there.

And huh, funny how Germany always seems to produce top riders....coincidence? I think not.

The reason it was taken out was to bring USEF rules in line with FEI ones.

So I don't for a moment think this "isn't done" in Euorpe.