Why all the sour grapes?

[Kim]

I am little surprised by all of the coulda/shoulda/wouldas here and implications that RA somehow "spoiled" MTB's triple crown victory. I, along with many others, would love to see a Triple Crown winner. However, a Triple Crown Winner has to win *all 3* races against *any* competitor. Sure, MTB would have won if RA wasn't there, but couldn't we say that about any 2nd place finisher in any sport? I guess I am just confused by all of the excuses and negative attitudes towards RA's win...am I missing something?

MTB and RA are both great horses. :) We should be thrilled for both great champions!

[ivy62]

Actually it has been said that the only problem Alydar had was he was born the same year as Affirmed......I have a horse who's Granddaddy was a TC spoiler, Bet Twice, but he ran in all 3 races coming in second to the winner each time except the Belmont which he won. So it is a bit different...Also it was thrown in there like a thorn at the last minute...

[Whistlejacket]

I guess I am just confused by all of the excuses and negative attitudes towards RA's win...am I missing something?

I too, am befuddled by this response.

It make me wonder whether there would be this negative attitude toward RA if she were a colt.

[BabyGoose]

I think they are both great horses. I personally like MTB better and was really rooting for him. But he ran a huge race and proved his point. Poor MTB and his connections were ignored, doubted, etc. even after the Kentucky Derby. Then along comes RA who is loved by the masses and poor little MTB is really ignored again. They even mispelled the trainers name on on the stall at Pimlico! While MTB's connections may not be homless, they didn't pay tons of money at the last minute to buy a horse to put in the Preakness. Both horses are great, both ran a great race and RA won. But MTB gave her a run for her money and fought so hard to earn just a little respect from everyone.

[DuffyAgain]

And they're crying all the way to the bank! :D;):winkgrin::lol:

[Atypical]

Exactly, had MTB not run such an awesome race, people would still be drooling over the filly. Imagine if he'd never fired his run, you really think there would be such negativity?? I don't.

[Angel Undercover]

It make me wonder whether there would be this negative attitude toward RA if she were a colt.

I wonder the same thing. I also feel that if MTB had won by a length instead of RA, many people would have been claiming that he's a superhorse, he proved himself, etc... but when RA does it many are quick to minimize her win.

IMO the whole business about RA being a TC spoiler, and taking the TC away from MTB is ridiculous. Nothing was taken away from MTB, if he was TC material he would have won. He won the Sovereign award for champion 2 year old colt in Canada, so I don't understand why so many people were considering him a one shot wonder either. MTB and RA are both great horses.

[bort84]

I think people wanted to see RA blow everyone out of the water, another Oaks-esque victory. Since she didn't exactly do that, for whatever reason, I think people then decided they had wanted to see MTB win all along since, in the end, he got so close. It's all about expectations.

I really think the fact that RA didn't win by double-digit lengths made people feel cheated out of their dramatic finish or something, so then they rooted for the underdog (a Derby winner, the underdog? wowie). Had MTB won, it would have been absolutely dramatic since no one gave him any credit. Since people were looking for excitement, they wanted to see RA win by 20 lengths again. When she didn't deliver (but still won), her fans jumped onto the MTB bandwagon. Not very nice... Haha.

Either way, I'm just glad we have two great backstories. One is a totally discounted plucky little gelding who won the Derby and STILL couldn't get any respect (on top of having a great 2 year old career in Canada). One is a superstar strapping filly who has had a string of breathtaking victories. Such fun! And how great for racing.

I hope RA continues to be a superfreak and that MTB turns out to be one as well and gives us a modern day Seabiscut feel = ) Maybe there can be a match race in their future, hahahahaaa.

[Mara]

Hate to say it, but I think a lot of folks inexplicably turned on Rachel Alexandra after she was purchased by Jess Jackson. OK, I have been guilty of same whenever one or "ours" gets sold to the Japanese - I instantly start rooting against the horse, which is just as silly. As if the horse gets to pick his owner. . .

But Jess Jackson? I guess some think he doesn't "deserve" her.

[Paragon]

What's fascinating to me is that the big-name trainers, arguably the best of the best, are all singing RA's praises. Yet here we are, pooping all over her.

I don't doubt the wisdom of all us armchair quarterbacks, but really? Really? The trainers of the boys - the ones she beat - think she's the real deal. How strange that some of us, watching from afar, would insist that she isn't.

[vineyridge]

So should we wish sour grapes on Jess Jackson and his wine from now on? The man is 79 years old, got his taste of the spotlight with Curlin, and probably wanted all eyes on him again. Let him get his foal from the two of them; by the time it races he'll be well into his eighties and who knows what will happen between now and then. :)

[cloudyandcallie]

A lot of people I know with horses just want to have another triple crown winner to watch. They don't realize that the triple crown requires an exceptional horse who can show up and run in 3 big races spaced closely together. I thought Spectacular Bid was a triple crown horse, but he didn't prove it on Belmont Day. Likewise a lot of the old great runners like Native Dancer and Needles, 2 out of 3 ain't bad, like the song says, but that isn't a triple crown either. There have been some very good horses in the last 31 years, but none could win the triple crown and be called a superhorse.
The last great horse was Affirmed, who when Alydar came up and looked him in the eye and actually got a nose in front, dug in and won the race.
I don't think a horse should win the triple crown by default, I think the horse should be exceptional. I loved the filly but she didn't run as well as she did in the Oaks, so I hope they'll save her and run in the Breeder's Cup mile.

[Sing Mia Song]

Personally, I thought it was a great race, and a great outcome. I would have thought the same if MTB had caught RA in the final strides and won. Competition like this is what racing is all about.

[danceronice]

Actually it has been said that the only problem Alydar had was he was born the same year as Affirmed......I have a horse who's Granddaddy was a TC spoiler, Bet Twice, but he ran in all 3 races coming in second to the winner each time. So it is a bit different...Also it was thrown in there like a thorn at the last minute...

I've heard some refer to Alydar as a TC winner of his own kind. I agree it's different with something like Alysheba/Bet Twice, or especially Sunday Silence/Easy Goer. This was done at the last minute, involving a HUGE purchase price by someone who basically said his main purpose in buying her was as a broodmare (I will laugh SO HARD if this Curlin/Rachel Alexandra cross results in a total dud--more because I found Curlin overrated) with a load of publicity and a ton of media hype. Throw in that MTB was getting no respect even after his Derby win (and we don't know that it was just because RA isn't there--she's never had to deal with a twenty-horse field on a muddy track, so we have no idea how she'd have run, though it would have meant he would have had a different rider) and there's a reason a lot of people were peeved.

And I'll admit, a filly does have to work harder to impress me, largely because nothing puts me off a horse (or a human) faster than the "grrrl power" garbage. So far, no go, and I'm staying on MTB.

[EquineRacers]

I agree with you Kim. No matter what kind of trip the horse had or what other horses they had to face they still have to win for it to count. To be quiet honest, I really didn't want to see MTB win the tripple. To be honest, I didn't even know who he was until he won the Derby!!!!

[terasa]

I dont get it either. If MTB was all that, he would have won. Simple as that. The filly didn't 'steal' anything. She won fair and square. MTB is still an impressive horse and put in an awesome effort. But he didn't win this particular day. End of story.
A triple crown winner should be able to beat any and all entries in each of the three races. Trying to create a triple crown winner by limiting entries to only those who run in the Derby is silly. A true winner should be able to take on all comers. Yes, it's a grueling schedule and horses prepped specifically for just one of the races may have an advantage...but thats why winning the TC isn't easy and is considered the mark of a great horse.
Also, all this media hype about MTB being the underdog is just plain silly. He won some big races here in Canada and was well respected. Thats why he sold for $400000 before the derby. He ran a couple of bad races between here and the Derby and wasn't taken seriously. We made good money betting on him for the win in the Derby ;)

[ivy62]

There are plenty of champions who do not do well in TC races or never in run in them so it is not the only factor in determining a champ....Did Forego do well? Cigar?John Henry? Ruffian? The list is endless so maybe this little horse is headed for a gret career AFTER the TC races or maybe he will be retired to a nice place for being a good boy....

[Calamber]

Nothing against RA. What leaves a sour taste in the mouth is 10 million paid for a horse in an economic depression, then they stick her in the Preakness, she gets the outside post, perfect for a front running filly who they knew would go to the front and the rest is history. Then, the little gelding who could, loses a jockey who was given the ride of a lifetime on a 50-1 longshot (clearly he had no other rides offered), horse wins but then his sentimental favorite (also owned by Mr. I can buy anything I want) comes along, then Mr. nice guy jockeys jumps off the Derby winner, leaves the guys with the black hats standing flatfooted as if what their good little horses just did matters not. He of course still gets no respect, gates open, he is pinched at the start, drops back, then has to thread his way through a crowd that gave him no opening. I just don't like the way this was all scripted.

And yes, if they are so concerned to prove she is the best, put her back in the Belmont, in a longer race with a different footing, then let us see how good she is, I do not care about times, I care about who you can beat in a fair and equitable race. That is all. Has nothing to do with her being a filly. She is a good horse, not yet a great horse. MTB to me and the way he ran in both races coming from behind and passing horses like they were standing still on totally different tracks at different distances, that one is coming along like a great horse.

I guess the owners of MTB are not real happy with "Jumping Jock Bereal" have decided that Mike Smith is staying on their horse whether RA runs in the Belmont or not. Can't say I blame them.

[outofthebox]

You summed up exactly what I have been feeling, but unable to express....

[GreenMachine]

This is getting ridiculous.

What's wrong with spending money on a horse "in an economic depression"? It wasn't your money JJ was spending, was it?

What's wrong with a jockey sticking with the horse he has a much longer history and greater bond with, especially when he believes that she's the better horse? Wouldn't it have been less loyal for him to jump off of her?

Also, if you'd been following the prep trail, you'd have known that Borel had the call on a horse who was injured. It wasn't as if the boys from New Mexico took pity on him or gave him his first big break.

As far as post positions go, the far outside isn't the optimal place for a horse who usually stalks the pace. RA was forced to go early, and Big Drama has quality speed.

Honestly, how hard is it to appreciate a great race that featured two great three year olds?

[Larksmom]

Race Riding and luck have a lot to do with it. There were no unfair advantages at the Preakness. A front runner has to dictate pace. A come from behinder is dependent on what the front runner does, hoping they run so fast there is nothing left. A come from behinder also has to deal with traffic problem s. Do you think the other jockies see MTB and part like the Red Sea? Or here he comes, make way for the King! Get outta here. That is not how it is done. So you think it is terrible this old man spends his money on a race horse? What should he do give it to the poor? It is his money He is old let him enjoy himself. I am not the biggest fan of Curlin but you guys are really too much :rolleyes:

[Go Fish]

I get the feeling from the Debbie Downers that if RA doesn't run in the Belmont, MTB will have it all sewn up...NOT.

I'm getting a little pissy myself hearing people on various boards diminish RAs win. You sure aren't hearing that from the trainers of other horses in the race...

Glimmerglass...thanks for your insightful comments about the horses and the race itself. I've been out of racing for a long time and I'm getting a great education from you! :)

[Jaegermonster]

This is just my personal feeling, but I think that if you don't run in the Ky Derby then you (the horse) should not be permitted to run in the other two Triple Crown races. Maybe it's silly or whatever, but I just fell that way. But I guess then there wouldn't be much of a field either, since lots of horses only run in the Derby and not the other two.
Gender is irrelevant. Don't ask me why I think this, I just do.
I think it's awesome that RA kicked total ass all up and down the track, racing really needed it and she is truly an exceptional animal. Both the Derby and the Preakness were some hellacious horse races.
Although I do have to admit I am a little disappointed that now there will be no Triple Crown winner (again). it would be really nice to have one.

[Atypical]

Man calamber, you certainly got your knickers in a twist. I agree, this is becoming completely ridiculous. MTB was not 'pinched' at the start. He dropped back because hey... that's the way he runs!! did you ever stop to consider that the pace RA made actually HELPED MTB? Softer pace makes it harder for a horse like him. And since when is way on the outside easier for a horse liking to be up front?

Geez, both horses ran a phenomenal race. Get over it.

And as for problems with Calvin, he has said from the get go that RA is the 'best horse he's ever ridden'. Why, praytell would he jump off her? Now I'm grumpy...

Oh, and there has never been any kind of precedent for horses not running in the derby not allowed to enter the other two races. Thats just silly.

[chicagogirl]

I don't normally post in this forum, but I was mentioning on the phone to another COTHer today that I was shocked at the vitriol that I've seen in this board the last few days. Seriously. If we're playing shoulda/coulda/woulda, why not ask what would have happened to MTB if the top Derby contenders were actually in the race? IWR, Quality Road, Pamplemousse and some other top contenders never made it to the gate. If we're playing this game, shouldn't we wonder what would have happened to him if they had showed up? MTB had a GREAT win in the Derby. RA had a GREAT win in the Preakness. They were both the best at those races on those days. Let's hope they run against one another again this year to see who is the best THAT day. In the meantime, let them all come home safe after all their races, and I'll consider it to be a successful race.

[Mara]

Regardless of whether Rachel starts at Belmont, Mine That Bird will have his work cut out for him. His come-from-behind style is well-documented by now, and the strategy now will be to slow the pace down up front. Granted, this is a bit tricky in a 1.5 mile race, but we'll see.

I'm fond of both horses. I love that Jess Jackson has said he'll run the filly at age 4 if she's healthy and shows she wants to continue. I love the fact that we may be looking at a gritty little gelding who can thrill everyone for a long time.

[Elys]

I am no racing expert and I don't post here much, but....did no one else hear the snippet on the NBC coverage on Preakness day, that explained that Borel and his "management" (I think that's what they said) had made it clear to all of his rides -WEEKS before the Derby- that if RA ever went against any of the boys, he was going to ride the filly? He made it clear to everyone he rode for that the filly was priority. So that would mean that it was made clear from the get-go to Woolley and the gang, that if Rachel went up against Mine That Bird in any future race, that he would be riding her.

How many times did Calvin ride MTB? I think it was twice right, a workout and the Derby? (I could be very wrong about this) I know he rode Rachel in at least 2 races, not sure about workouts. So how do you define "loyalty"? Who do you remain loyal to? The horse that you have ridden twice total, or the one you have ridden several times?

Also, did anyone think that if he had turned down the offer to ride from RA's new connections, that he may never have gotten another offer? He may have lost the mount on what he feels is the greatest horse he has ever ridden. He also may have wanted to make sure he was on RA to give her as safe a trip as he possibly could. With all of the changes going on, he was the man that knew her best. But that last bit is just my opinion. :)

I have absolutely nothing against MTB, I was really rooting for the little guy. I think he is a super talented horse. But I don't think Calvin "betrayed" anyone, or did anything wrong. He was loyal to the horse he promised to ride and was completely open about it from the beginning. Woolley and company don't strike me as overly emotional types, so I would imagine that they understood and respected his decision. From all of the follow up interviews I have seen, that seems to be the case. They mostly seem grateful that Calvin was even available to ride for the Derby. I just can't see them getting their panties all in a bunch about Borel's decision.

And everyone is getting all upset that MTB didn't get any respect before the Derby, yet one of the owners even said that he didn't think they had a shot to win, but they figured "Why not go anyway?". So if the owners didn't think he could win, why should the media? Woolley even said he fell off his crutches in shock when he saw that MTB was in front and was going to win it. So his owners didn't think he could win, and his trainer was shocked that he did...why wouldn't people think that he might not show as well in the Preakness, on a fast track? His connections didn't even believe he was good enough to pull it off. :no:

[feather river]

One comes in first, the others follow. That is racing. The best horse at that moment won.

And think of all the folks who could have won gold medals at the last Olympic games if Michael Phelps hadn't competed. That's a discussion to have while you sit around and drink beer late into the evening.

Quit crying. Enjoy the sport. You couldn't have written a better script for horse racing this year. And I'm not a big race horse fan, but I was this year. MTB is a great horse, can't beat the way he won the Derby--fantastic come from the back of the pack--like a rocket going past those other horses.. And RA is also phenomenal--not the way she won the Oaks, but the fact that she did it again the same way in the Preakness.

And so, sure, what if it were a longer course, he might have passed RA before the pole. But he didn't. The jockey knew where the end of the race was. Did he wait too late to make his move, did he hesitate when he had to go around, who knows. Argue about it in good nature, but RA is a rock solid race horse. She deserved to be out there that day. No question about it.

Both of these horses showed what they are made of. You don't have to apologize for either of them. And Calvin is one hell of a rider for sure. The man is an artist.

[kdow]

My issue (I'm a MTB fan) is just that some of the RA fans seemed to be not giving MTB any credit, and he really does deserve plenty. I mean, here's this supposedly super-horse filly, and he came from behind, through the pack with some traffic problems, and STILL almost caught her. You'd think maybe that might be enough for some people to say 'hey, that's a damn good horse!'

There's a big difference between "yay, my fave won! great race!" and "yay, my fave won and this proves all the others are awful!" (And before someone says 'but no one has actually said that!' - no, those exact words have not been stated. But it's read like it's implied in some of the comments.)

Also, there is the issue of feeling like the TC was 'stolen' just because of the way everything was set up - RA swooping in at the last minute, MTB losing his jockey (even if they knew that might happen, it's still an unusual problem to deal with in this level of race) - when you do have a horse that comes from behind like MTB does. It makes for a very dramatic finish and also really just makes it look like MTB *outclasses* the other horses, the way he blows past them. So you definitely feel like he could've had it. It's just the emotional effect of the way the whole thing played out.

Like I said - be happy for RA. Obviously, she is a fantastic horse. Just don't try to make her seem like a better horse by putting MTB down. He seems like a pretty fantastic horse, too.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[caffeinated]

My issue (I'm a MTB fan) is just that some of the RA fans seemed to be not giving MTB any credit, and he really does deserve plenty. I mean, here's this supposedly super-horse filly, and he came from behind, through the pack with some traffic problems, and STILL almost caught her. You'd think maybe that might be enough for some people to say 'hey, that's a damn good horse!'


Really? I really haven't seen that. I'm a HUGE RA fan, and was deeply impressed and happy about the way MTB finished in the Preakness, and am tickled pink that he showed the world he was no fluke. :)

I'm reading the same boards you are, I think, and haven't seen anybody, RA fan or not, saying MTB isn't awesome too.

Maybe I'm just being super selective, heh.

[Good Old Sledge]

Just read that MTB will be looking for a new jockey for his next race - Mike Smith having chosen to honor another commitment on Belmont weekend. Makes "Jumping" Calvin Borel look like a trend setter.
The way that little gelding was moving at the end of The Preakness makes it look like he'll do well over a longer course. Makes you wonder what it is about those folks that makes it so hard for them to keep help.

As to the sour grapes - in horse racing, one horse wins, the rest don't. One group of connections celebrates, the rest grumble. It's as much a part of the game as the rest of it. I've exercised the priveledge myself a time or two...

[Whistlejacket]

RA did something that has never been done before, by any horse of any gender - she won from the outside post position in the Preakness.

I'm no sports expert, but if something has never been achieved in a sport, even though many have tried (independent of the specific sport, the species doing the sport, and the gender of the individual), then logic dictates that whatever that achievement is, is hard - very hard.

No horse before RA had won from the outside post position in the Preakness. It is logical to then to assume that the outside post position is a hard position from which to win. So independent of her gender (and with no disrespect to MTB or any of the other contenders) what RA did was amazing - she did something no horse (colt, fillie, gelding) has ever done before in the history of the running of the Preakness. That's one heckavu achievement.

I appreciate that the girl power stuff can get a bit much - it's almost like it is taking away from this accommplishment. But please let it not detract from this great never-done-before achievement by RA (independent of her gender). Can't that be respected in and of itself?

[cloudyandcallie]

So "how come" the owners/trainer of MTB didn't go back and hire the woman jockey who helped make him Canadian Horse of the Year to ride him in the Derby and Preakness? She seemed to do a very good job riding him up in Canada. I don't know who rode him after he came to the USA.
I hope that both the owner of the filly and of the gelding race into next year so we can see just how good they are. Too often the colts and fillies are retired after one or two big wins. The geldings race on.

[ivy62]

If I am not mistaken there are rarely anough horses to have an outside position this far out. I think the average field is 8 or 9..only 4 times in the last 25 years there has been a 13th position, so it is hard to say in my opinion.
I would love to see Edgar Prado aboard this little horse. He guided his daddy to the victory over Smarty Jones with Birstone in a closing finish that was just his style...Is the phone ringing?

[Kim]

So let me get this straight...people don't like Jess Jackson because he spent a ton of money to buy RA, but they prefer MTB's owner, who wanted to block RA's entry in the Preakness to improve his own chances of winning?

<<Ahmed Zayat, the owner of Pioneerof the Nile, admitted that Allen, the owner of Kentucky Derby winner Mine That Bird, had called him and that they had discussed trying to block the filly from the Preakness, saying, "This is all about business. This is about stallions." (Wait, isn't MTB a gelding??)

Zayat said Allen told him: "Listen, I have a request for you. I think this race is between me (Mine That Bird) and you (Pioneerof the Nile). ... Can you please help us? It's good for the game." >>

I still don't get it.

P.S. I love the comment someone made about how many folks would have won gold medals if Michael Phelps hadn't entered the Olympics.

[BabyGoose]

[QUOTE=Good Old Sledge;4104141]Just read that MTB will be looking for a new jockey for his next race - Mike Smith having chosen to honor another commitment on Belmont weekend. Makes "Jumping" Calvin Borel look like a trend setter.
The way that little gelding was moving at the end of The Preakness makes it look like he'll do well over a longer course. Makes you wonder what it is about those folks that makes it so hard for them to keep help.

QUOTE]

It is probably because before the Kentcky Derby they weren't big names in the sport. Borel and Smith are jumping off MTB because of prior commitments to bigger names and bigger money. I doubt that there is anything wrong with MTB's connections other than they are still trying to make a name for themselves and their horse and having to battle every step of the way to get an ounce of respect.

[Glimmerglass]

P.S. I love the comment someone made about how many folks would have won gold medals if Michael Phelps hadn't entered the Olympics.

Classic!

"If only the baseball game was 8-innings we would've won the World Series" ... or

"If the Indy 500 was just 499 laps, we would've won it" .. or

"If only the Preakness was longer, we could've passed her" ;)

You can of course go back and play a foolish game of "what if" the opposite way too. Had there been a horse hugging the rail in the stretch of the Kentucky Derby then we'd be looking at Pioneerof The Nile as the winner in that race and Mine That Bird would be historically just another runner who tried.

A small pinch of fate/circumstances/karma whatever just happens.

[MintHillFarm]

Classic!

"If only the baseball game was 8-innings we would've won the World Series" ... or

"If the Indy 500 was just 499 laps, we would've won it" .. or

"If only the Preakness was longer, we could've passed her" ;)

You can of course go back and play a foolish game of "what if" the opposite way too. Had there been a horse hugging the rail in the stretch of the Kentucky Derby then we'd be looking at Pioneerof The Nile as the winner in that race and Mine That Bird would be historically just another runner who tried.

A small pinch of fate/circumstances/karma whatever just happens.

Makes for some great conversation too!

[bort84]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/50844/haskins-preakness-recap-remarkable-rachel

This is kind of a nice article (it is a smidge long though). From this article, you get the feeling that certainly MTB and RA's connections aren't engaging in the "sour grapes" like this board.

Calvin rode MTB in a workout just before he left for Maryland and cried and gave MTB's people big hugs when he got off. This was after Calvin and MTB's people knew he would be on RA in the Preakness. Come on, people. MTB's people couldn't have expected Calvin to not ride RA - that's the horse he had ridden the most and actually had the previous commitment to.

Woolley still had Calvin on MTB for the Preakness if for some reason RA didn't make it in. So he apparently was pretty understanding. He also called Calvin after the Preakness to congratulate him and said the mare had just been the better horse that day - he made no mention of MTB's tough trip... If he doesn't want to diminish RA's victory, why does everyone on here want to?

Certainly there may be some things going on behind the scenes that aren't being reported. But from all of the press, it seems that most of the people actually involved in the racing are pretty pleased with the way the race turned out. RA proved herself by running on a track she didn't like after only 2 weeks of rest from the outside post position against boys etc. MTB made a game try for RA but couldn't quite get there.

I think people were all for RA until MTB almost closed on her. Then they decided they wished MTB had won instead because what a lovely Cinderella story... It's still a great story! I can honestly say I was rooting for RA until I saw MTB, then I got excited for him too. But, I'm still happy she won while he proved that he is the game little gelding we saw in the Derby.

Oh, also, I would guess if Woolley decides on somebody besides Calvin for the Belmont (if RA doesn't run), it's probably so MTB and the new rider have a chance to get together for a minute before the race. Calvin may not know until very last minute if RA will be in the Belmont. Just a thought. Might not be Woolley's displeasure with Calvin for riding RA, might just be a totally practical consideration. He doesn't seem like a super emotional guy prone to drama queen behavior, haha.

[Mara]

But there are one or two people who've posted in these Triple Crown-related threads that they think horses who don't run in the Derby should not be eligible for the Preakness or the Belmont.

I can't agree. Flip side: should the Derby winner be "forced" to run in the Preakness (or be fined, suspended, prevented from running in the Belmont?) I am old enough to remember the outrage when Spend A Buck's connections opted for the Jersey Derby over the Preakness because there was an opportunity for a huge bonus.

The Triple Crown hasn't been won since '78 because there hasn't been a horse with the stuff to do it, period. If it's messed with to make it easier to win, any winners under a "new" format ought to get an asterisk.

Of course, the Preakness used to be run 9 days after the Derby. . .

[danceronice]

On the one hand, I understand the concept of not allowing non-starters from the Derby (or at least horses who weren't intending to run in it from the original nomination point, because things happen) in the Preakness and Belmont--it's a LOT harder to run in three long Classics over a five-week period than to come in rested. On the other hand, that'st he way it's always been. And even though the Oaks isn't the Derby--shorter, smaller field, lighter weights, fillies, etc--in RA's case at least she wasn't coming off a logn break.

While there's no RULE, I think it would, especially these days, be REALLY hard to justify not sending the Derby winner to the Preakness unless they were injured or ill. There really aren't any other races that matter from a national coverage perspective except the Breeder's Cup, and let's face it: the single best thing that could happen to the sport right now is a Triple Crown winner. Period. There are now at least two generations of ADULTS (myself included by three months) who have never seen a Triple Crown won in their lifetime. For casual fans, the ONLY race that matters is the Kentucky Derby, and the thing that keeps them tuning in is the thought that there might be a TC. I remember when Real Quiet won, I was in college, and my totally disinterested friends knew when the Belmont was being run because there was a chance for a TC. This time, we have a freak in the race (a filly), but if she doesn't go to Belmont (and I'm not saying she should) the viewership will plummet. And if she had been a colt, viewership would plummet whether the Preakness winner went or not, because now the Belmont is just a really long race for three-year-olds.

On the one hand, does it mean anything if it's altered so it's the same challenge for all concerned (three races in five weeks)? Or does it not matter if there's an asterix because the whole series will die out as interest in the sport does?

[Mara]

I think too many people are resting their hopes on having a Triple Crown winner "save" the sport and revive national interest.

I honestly think it would revive national interest only until the newly annointed Triple Crown winner was whisked off to the breeding farm three days after crossing the Belmont finish line. The exception being, of course, that the winner is a gelding, which is why it is a bit of a shame that Mine That Bird won't be taking that prize this year.

Anyone think Smarty Jones would have stuck around for the fall classics and the Breeder's Cup if he'd won the Belmont? No way. Hell, IEAH said Big Brown would be done if he won the Crown. Too much money to be lost if the horse starts a long losing streak, or worse, is injured badly enough to preclude a stud career.

[danceronice]

But it would be MEDIA attention. And I don't know...it MIGHT make financial sense to retire at once if you have a horse like Big Brown whose feet were apparently being held on with duct tape, but given the ridiculously long breaks between races anyway and the purses they'd be offering it might be very hard to say no.

The best-case scenario would be a colt AND filly TC in the same year and a meetup in the Classic...and then the public would be screaming for a breeding between the two. (And of course then you're guaranteed to get a foal who can't run for beans, because fate finds that kind of thing funny, but still.) But that would be a media-relations gold mine.

[Glimmerglass]

On the one hand, I understand the concept of not allowing non-starters from the Derby ... in the Preakness and Belmont--it's a LOT harder to run in three long Classics over a five-week period than to come in rested.

I believe it was on the New York Times blog forum that someone illustrated the runners in the American Classics (a/k/a Triple Crown races) over this decade who raced in all three.

Effectively if there was a mandate that only Derby (or even Oaks) starters could run in the Preakness and then in the Belmont, there would've been at least 4 years with zero starters in the Belmont. Typically you'd be hard pressed to see but 2 or 3 horses sticking with running in all three.

This year it looks like Mine That Bird and Flying Private are the only ones on board.

Changing history to almost ensure a Triple Crown winner occurs would be paramount to continually pitching underhand in a MLB game to ensure we see another .400 batter - it makes utterly no sense!

[regret]

Nothing against RA. What leaves a sour taste in the mouth is 10 million paid for a horse in an economic depression, then they stick her in the Preakness, she gets the outside post, perfect for a front running filly who they knew would go to the front and the rest is history..

It is this guys money to spend like he wants. He earned it.

[Lady Counselor]

I wouldn't call it 'sour grapes', well, at least for most people anyway, but more of an impatience to finally have another TC winner after having it snatched away so many times.
I was fortunate enough to see Secretariat, Affirmed and Seattle Slew in a short span do it. It's hard to wait decades again.
We had a bunch of near misses from the late 90's, one of these years we maybe will finally have another true champion, one who attracts the attention of the mainstream as well as the fans.
I thought we had a real, solid chance with Barbaro. That was heartbreaking on so many levels.
This little colt is game, pure grit. I'd love to see a rematch between him and Rachel. :yes:

[ivy62]

It is just nice to see the little guy do it. I love both horses but my heart belongs to MTB (this is personal) BUT may the best horse win! On that day it was RA doesn't mean they will not meet again and the chips fall differently....They are both good for racing and I would have loved to see the triple crown won, yes I have seen a few in my lifetime, but it has been too long. I agree, Babaro was the ultimate opportunity. He fits the bill of an up and coming champion. Undefeated and multiple different surfaces and tracks...That is a champion...
Maybe it is a new rivalry? Affirmed/Alydar, Bet Twice/Alysheba and Easy Goer and Sunday Silence...That would make racing more intersting not one race but several good horses matched against each other not avoiding each other.
I hope that take MTB to Arlington Millions! like John Henry!
We have to get Zenyatta in there too plus I would like to see this little gelding run on grass.....
No sour grapes but I think people under estimated MTB and NO he is not a one hit wonder....

[Angel Undercover]

So let me get this straight...people don't like Jess Jackson because he spent a ton of money to buy RA, but they prefer MTB's owner, who wanted to block RA's entry in the Preakness to improve his own chances of winning?

<<Ahmed Zayat, the owner of Pioneerof the Nile, admitted that Allen, the owner of Kentucky Derby winner Mine That Bird, had called him and that they had discussed trying to block the filly from the Preakness, saying, "This is all about business. This is about stallions." (Wait, isn't MTB a gelding??)

Zayat said Allen told him: "Listen, I have a request for you. I think this race is between me (Mine That Bird) and you (Pioneerof the Nile). ... Can you please help us? It's good for the game." >>

I agree. I was appalled by such a lack of sportsmanship. I find it interesting that no one mentioned it until now, but have been badmouthing Jess Jackson for spending his own money on a horse he likes. I like MTB, I think he is a nice horse, but I have ZERO respect for his owners.

[Catsdorule-sigh]

Actually, I was quite torn between RA and MTB in the Preakness.

It's not about entering RA at the last minute or the $$$$ involved in that whole thing. It's not about favoring MTB over RA or the other way around.

It's all the HYPE making RA out to be a super filly. She comes in, races against the boys once, and suddenly, she's the next Genuine Risk. Well, no. Genuine Risk ran with the boys in all three races and did pretty doggone well. That's a super filly.

RA can run in the Belmont or not- but the HYPE about how great she is does not have the basis that it would in the case of Genuine Risk.

Also, MTB's connections didn't sound like they had intended to run him in the Preakness, they got there because of his Derby win. His trainer had already said the distance of the Preakness didn't suit him as well, but they ponied up (uh, not meant as a pun) and ran him there.

The Triple Crown is so hard to win because it's grueling, you have fresh horses to face, different tracks and conditions.

If MTB can pull off a Belmont win, WITH the added challenge of a change in jockey's, I think you're looking at one heck of a little horse. If he does the deed or even does a well placed second again, I tend to favor the durability and guts of that little guy over one swoop in to play with the boys then swoop out.

Not to forget that RA got 5lbs on everybody. Somewhere there are figures as to what that can equate to in lengths but it's another case of, if she's better than the boys, she should run with the boys weight. That won't happen but it's another factor that gets lost in the evaluations.

It's the HYPE without the time put in in rank yet. More power to RA if she keeps running with the boys and beats them. But if they pick and choose when to "swoop" in, that's another story. It's calling her better than the colts based on one race.

It's not about a lost TC for me- it's media hype and the super filly bandwagon attached to a filly that hasn't put enough time in the traces yet racing against the colts.

If she enters the Belmont and wins, fine. If she's a close second, fine. That would certainly help confirm she may be worthy of the hyped status. And I'll love it. I just don't easily jump on the "better than the boys" bandwagon based on one race or picking spots when the Belmont would be the race that could help RA establish the cred.

[MSP]

...the single best thing that could happen to the sport right now is a Triple Crown winner. Period. There are now at least two generations of ADULTS (myself included by three months) who have never seen a Triple Crown won in their lifetime. For casual fans, the ONLY race that matters is the Kentucky Derby, and the thing that keeps them tuning in is the thought that there might be a TC. I remember when Real Quiet won, I was in college, and my totally disinterested friends knew when the Belmont was being run because there was a chance for a TC. This time, we have a freak in the race (a filly), but if she doesn't go to Belmont (and I'm not saying she should) the viewership will plummet. And if she had been a colt, viewership would plummet whether the Preakness winner went or not, because now the Belmont is just a really long race for three-year-olds.

On the one hand, does it mean anything if it's altered so it's the same challenge for all concerned (three races in five weeks)? Or does it not matter if there's an asterix because the whole series will die out as interest in the sport does?

Well, don't I feel old! I was ten when secretariat won the TC. He has always been my favorite and while I would love another TC winner you just can't beat the two races we just witnessed. Wow!

I don't find it disappointing to not have a TC winner as long as the races are good and I have to say so far it has been superb. I can't wait to see how the Belmont shapes up.

Of course I am happy when they all walk off the track.;)

[Paragon]

It's all the HYPE making RA out to be a super filly. She comes in, races against the boys once, and suddenly, she's the next Genuine Risk.

Actually, it was the call in the stretch of the Oaks that the media latched onto. She's called "super filly" twice in less than twenty strides. That was a beautiful run.

And the admiration she has from her jockey doesn't hurt, either. He knows her better than we do. If he thinks she's "super", I believe him.

I don't think it was just the Preakness win that did it. It started before then.

[maybedog]

Personally, I would much rather see RA run against Zenyatta than run in the Belmont. She proved her point in the Preakness, she can run against the boys. However, she was awfully tired after that race. Let's just see who the best mare is out there. For added intrigue put Chantal on RA and Mike on Zenyatta!!

[danceronice]

Well, don't I feel old! I was ten when secretariat won the TC. He has always been my favorite and while I would love another TC winner you just can't beat the two races we just witnessed. Wow!

I don't find it disappointing to not have a TC winner as long as the races are good and I have to say so far it has been superb. I can't wait to see how the Belmont shapes up.

Of course I am happy when they all walk off the track.;)

Well, yeah, you could beat it. A TC is a great story, great drama, great horse to do it. (Or two, in the case of Affirmed and Alydar!) A horse can be great without winning the TC (Cigar, anyone?), but so far I haven't seen one this year.

Catsdorule: IAWTC. The hype is REALLY off-putting, especially at the expense of MTB, though in fairness he was being treated as a fluke five minutes after the Derby ended so his getting no respect is not entirely RA's fault.

[Go Fish]

MTB losing his jockey (even if they knew that might happen, it's still an unusual problem to deal with in this level of race)

Ummmm...Calvin rode MTB exactly twice before the KD. I think once to gallop and then the race. I wouldn't classify Calvin as MTBs jockey...he's more RAs jockey...he's rode her quite a few times.

[Go Fish]

So let me get this straight...people don't like Jess Jackson because he spent a ton of money to buy RA, but they prefer MTB's owner, who wanted to block RA's entry in the Preakness to improve his own chances of winning?

<<Ahmed Zayat, the owner of Pioneerof the Nile, admitted that Allen, the owner of Kentucky Derby winner Mine That Bird, had called him and that they had discussed trying to block the filly from the Preakness, saying, "This is all about business. This is about stallions." (Wait, isn't MTB a gelding??)

Zayat said Allen told him: "Listen, I have a request for you. I think this race is between me (Mine That Bird) and you (Pioneerof the Nile). ... Can you please help us? It's good for the game." >>

I still don't get it.

P.S. I love the comment someone made about how many folks would have won gold medals if Michael Phelps hadn't entered the Olympics.

EXTREMELY good point...;)

[Larksmom]

I would really like to see her run against Zenyatta. Maybe Zenyatta hasn't run against the boys because she comes from behind, and they would get in her way on purpose which of course, is just race riding.
Two other points:
I was very very disappointed when BIRDSTONE beat Smarty Jones out of TC. How ironic if a good son of his has the same thing happen to him?
Second, Canadians help me out here-Remember Isvestia? Was that his name? Canadian TC winner, owners wanted to keep him racing for the fans.... broke his leg in a starting gate or something like that?

[DLee]

Well, don't I feel old! I was ten when secretariat won the TC. He has always been my favorite and while I would love another TC winner you just can't beat the two races we just witnessed. Wow!

I don't find it disappointing to not have a TC winner as long as the races are good and I have to say so far it has been superb. I can't wait to see how the Belmont shapes up.

Of course I am happy when they all walk off the track.;)

Exactly. :yes: The hope for a Triple Crown winner is always fun, but I think this has been one of the better Triple Crown series already. Fabulous stories and no breakdowns. THAT is what racing needs.

[imissvixen]

I think the good thing about these two is there is no rush to get them to the breeding shed. Or at least there shouldn't be. They could have a long rivalry that would be great for the sport.

[ivy62]

I wish there were more 3 year olds to make a lot of races very interesting...Why is it that 75 years ago horses raced within days of each other and now they have to have weeks off to give a good performance?
If we had a lot of stars that would be better..The best three olds didn't even make it to the TC...so now they are not the best just injured and laid up or retired..

[Mara]

I think the good thing about these two is there is no rush to get them to the breeding shed. Or at least there shouldn't be. They could have a long rivalry that would be great for the sport.

Would be nice, and at least we can believe Jess Jackson when he says he plans to run Rach at 4 if the filly's still got it and still wants it.

An aside: I do wonder about sending her to Curlin. Yeah, it's a dream match on paper, but he'll still be unproven as a sire when Rachel is ready for breeding, unless they wait until she's six, which I doubt very much will be the case. If I wanted to try for something like that, I'd send her to Smart Strike instead. . .

[danceronice]

Would be nice, and at least we can believe Jess Jackson when he says he plans to run Rach at 4 if the filly's still got it and still wants it.

An aside: I do wonder about sending her to Curlin. Yeah, it's a dream match on paper, but he'll still be unproven as a sire when Rachel is ready for breeding, unless they wait until she's six, which I doubt very much will be the case. If I wanted to try for something like that, I'd send her to Smart Strike instead. . .

Someone on the RA thread suggested Invasor when I asked about who instead of Curlin, and looking at his pedigree that would be an interesting cross.

And I on the one hand want to believe him when he says she'll race at four, if she wants to, but color me cynical about that these days.

Obviously, MTB can run so long as he's sound...gelding, after all.

[Galileo1998]

Second, Canadians help me out here-Remember Isvestia? Was that his name? Canadian TC winner, owners wanted to keep him racing for the fans.... broke his leg in a starting gate or something like that?

Izvestia. Canadian Triple Crown winner in 1990. Broke his hind leg in the Rothman's International in 1991 and had to be euthanized.

[ivy62]

Danceronice- I suggested Invasor but I would rather see Leroidesanimaux first. He already has babies on the ground and they seem to be well recieved...
It also brings forth some new blood into the gene pool.....
It is a gamble to keep racing them for fear of injury....I do not know what I would do...hmm take them home with me! and on to a second career..can we say lead line? heehee!

[danceronice]

I figure it's a racehorse, it was bred to race, you race it until it says stop (can't win or is hurt.) It's a risk, but that's how it goes with horses. You don't buy a horse to wrap it in cotton wool and keep it in the barn. I don't see the point of quitting just becuase they MIGHT get hurt. Sure, they MIGHT get hurt. They might also have a heart attack in their stall. Or snap a leg in their paddock. Or founder or colic or pick your poison.

Though with a Triple Crown winner I can see the if factor--there you are almost guaranteed to make a mint (unless they're another Cigar) on breeding so the temptation to get out NOW would probably be strong. But that didn't stop previous TCs from racing. Citation even came back after a year off. With a gelding there isn't even that temptation. (Though at least at four or five a retired gelding might have something to do besides hang in a barn or paddock and cover mares for the next twenty years, assuming, again, no accident/illness/injury.)

But that's probably another thread.

[Mara]

Previous Triple Crown winners stayed in the game because, well, times and markets were different. Sir Barton, Gallant Fox, Omaha, War Admiral, Assault, the Calumet pair - all of those horses were owned by people who bred to race, not for the sales ring. The stallions went home to their owners' farms after their track careers were over. (Count Fleet injured a tendon in the Belmont, which is why that was his final race).

I don't know if Penny Tweedy would have kept Secretariat running at four, but she had no choice really, since she had already sold the majority of him in order to pay estate taxes after her father died. In fact, Seth Hancock put a little pressure on her to stop on him after he failed to win the Wood Memorial - he was worried the horse's value as a stud would drop.

Also the purses were not nearly what they are now.

There are probably dozens more reasons, but that would take too long!

Jackson had no real reason to race Curlin at four. I have no problem believing he means to go on for another year with the filly if conditions warrant doing so.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Horses didn't retire back in ye olden days, at least not in the US, because there was more money in racing than in breeding. War Admiral raced for three years (only raced once as a 5yo, so don't really count that) and won over $275k. His stud fee when he retired was $2000, so he would have to cover 140 odd mares, probably four seasons worth given the size of stallion books back then, to earn the same amount of money in the shed.
Citation, the first horse to earn $1m on the track, retired to stud for a fee of $5k, which would take about 5 years of covering mares to make the same amount of money.

Fast forward to nowadays, where NA's richest earner, Curlin, can make as much in one year at stud as his record setting career earnings.

[ivy62]

Curlin was raced as a 4 year old because he could not be sent to the shed..ownership issues. If you remember the owners of Midnight Cry stables are in jail and the judge didn't know what to do....

If MTB that can win the Belmont with yet a third jockey that would be amazing! But his style of running could be difficult if the jock doesn't understand the horse....Wish Cal were on him...yet TBD...

[Mara]

The job of riding The Bird will be even trickier in the Belmont - every other jock will be watching and waiting and trying to slow the pace.

[haligator]

There are plenty of champions who do not do well in TC races or never in run in them so it is not the only factor in determining a champ....Did Forego do well? Cigar?John Henry? Ruffian? The list is endless so maybe this little horse is headed for a gret career AFTER the TC races or maybe he will be retired to a nice place for being a good boy....

Hi,
Actually Forego ran a strong 4th in Secretariat's 1973 Derby....but overall developed later in his career as a courageous and great horse.

Ruffian did not run against 'the boys' until that final fateful day because Frank Whiteley didn't believe in running fillies against the colts. She did, however, win the Filly Triple Crown (now called the 'Triple Tiarra') in New York in 1975.

John Henry was the very definition of a late bloomer, so no Classic races for him at three.

Off the top of my head I don't know if Cigar started in any of the TC races but have a strong feeling he didn't. Someone please let me know if he did.

The only filly to place in all three TC races was Genuine Risk with a 1st, 2nd, and 2nd. Although as most of you know I'm a tad dedicated to GR, I still think we can call her a true Amazon through the Classics. There will never be another Genuine Risk.

I believe RA to be an exceptional racehorse. Her Oaks was one for the ages, and her Preakness victory out of the far left of the gates was very impressive.

I think a lot of people in general put incredible importance on the TC races and the Breeders Cup to the detriment of other races. There are so many wonderful and historic races across the country every year that showcase many champions. The TC and Breeders Cup are not the 'be-all, end-all' of racing.

And, honestly, a lot of the horses I believe to be among the best of all time never went near the TC. Case in point - Ta Wee. I honestly think a case can be made for naming her the greatest American racehorse of all time. To carry the weights she did against the boys - sometimes giving away 30 pounds - we'll never see the like of her again.

Just my musings this evening.

Best,
Hallie I. McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC

[Falconfree]

The last time a TC was won was the year my parents got married, so I've never seen one. I would love love love to see a Triple Crown winner. I have friends who know nothing about racing, but will sit down to watch the Belmont if there is a possibility of a TC.

However, I wouldn't want to make it easier. It takes a special horse to win the Crown, and I wouldn't want a horse to win who wins because the best horses don't run against them. Wouldn't want them to win by default, that doesn't prove anything.

I did greatly enjoy both the Derby and the Preakness, and I think both MTB and RA are great horses. Really hope she runs in the Belmont. These, to me, have been some of the most enjoyable races for a while.

[Calamber]

Haligator, RA won from the far right of the gates unless you are looking (and breaking) from the gates looking at them.:lol: And if you are thinking about this in other than some romanticized way, this race to me had all of the trappings of a "fixed" race, I do not say this lightly but all of the elements are there. Super rich dude (Mr. I am going to save American racing by getting the women on board in some kind of feminist frenzy), pays some astronomical amount of money and gets his outside post too for his front running horse. Little horse from a state that does not pay homage to the wannabe blue bloods, does not even keep his rider who loves to cry for the crowds about what a good home town boy and family man he is but also runs for the dough.

Not so unnbelieveably, the Derby winner also known as a fluke is first badly pinched at the start, but even more damning is the ride on the back side and coming around the turn for home. Just watch it again and see what you think, horse is carried out wide and is impeded as skillfully as skilled jockeys can impede and make it look like racing luck. Little horse comes through the pack anyway and is more than able to run down the blue blood wannabe's horse but runs out of room. Now the little horse from the state that does not qualify for blue blood boot kissing status cannot keep that jockey who just has to ride a horse for some other big money connections who do not even have the good grace to release him for this very qualified horse in the Belmont?! Does no one else smell a rat in this situation? At the very least the big money boys come out looking like they did their best to impede a TC potential and at worst like the worst kind of arrogance ever and absolutely unsportsmanlike.

I do not know that Borel has any clue how he was used but he was used in this stupidity, nor am I accusing Mike Smith of riding MTB to get him trapped, carried out wide and pinched at the start. I am sure he knew they were gunning for him out of the gate and were going to do everything they could to stop this horse from winning. All is fair in love and war but one needs to know what the war is all about.

Clumsy and rightfully enraged owner (Allen) is not the biggest boob in this show, and it was his father (who also had been caught up in another scandal) who was the one that told him to back down. This father is the one who bailed this son out of trouble by changing his testimony which almost got Senator Ted Stevens falsely sent to prison. There is more than meets the eye with this whole deal.

Of course the TC is not the be all to determine champions, but what the heck, they do not intend to run these horses anyway to determine longevity or prove that they are true horsemen and women most interested in the TB racing horse. What they are interested in is how to keep the value of the bloodstock as falsely inflated as it has been since the 80s. Does anyone think any horse at the age of one or two can legitimately be worth a million or millions? Can anyone say tax dodge, money laundering and horse sales all in one breath?

[DLee]

You could make that claim of a lot of races if you wanted to try to spin them a certain way.

[regret]

Haligator, RA won from the far right of the gates unless you are looking (and breaking) from the gates looking at them.:lol: And if you are thinking about this in other than some romanticized way, this race to me had all of the trappings of a "fixed" race, I do not say this lightly but all of the elements are there. Super rich dude (Mr. I am going to save American racing by getting the women on board in some kind of feminist frenzy), pays some astronomical amount of money and gets his outside post too for his front running horse. Little horse from a state that does not pay homage to the wannabe blue bloods, does not even keep his rider who loves to cry for the crowds about what a good home town boy and family man he is but also runs for the dough.




I am speechless.

[Laurierace]

Didn't Rags to Riches already save racing by getting all the women on board? No? Maybe because sane people don't give a crap about a horse's genitalia and just want to see a good race which they did and then some. Fixed...that is a laugh and a half.

[EponaRoan]

Can anyone say tax dodge, money laundering and horse sales all in one breath?

I didn't know that Charles Widmore was involved in racing! Get Mulder and Scully on it right away.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Atypical]

Wow Calamber, do you also watch out for black helicopters at night? Give me a break

[lassoch]

People keep saying that a Triple Crown winner will get the sport a lot of publicity and help to "save" it, but this is not necessarily the case. The Preakness TV ratings were up something like 27% this year. Last year was when there was all the Triple Crown hype for Big Brown, but people just were not tuning in at the same rate. The Rachel Alexandra story line apparently caught way more interest.

[enjoytheride]

I think that not only should horses who ran in the derby only be allowed in the preakness and belmont but you should give the winner of the derby a head start.

[okggo]

I absolutely agree the fuss is because people wanted either 1. a HUGE finish by RA or 2. MTB to win.

Personally, I wouldn't want a TC "winner" to happen because people withheld their "good" competition. Frankly I was laughing at the irony in the 1st leg of MTB winning, reminded me of Birdsong (his sire) and SJ. I remember the jock after that race, everyone wanted SJ to win, but hopefully people will realize BS is a great horse too.

Should we really make the races easier, the competition less fierce, because we haven't had a winner in so long? I say either keep waiting, or start breeding specifically FOR the TC - but I'd hate to see a TC winner that was given even ONE of the legs. JMHO.

[LaurieB]

Calamber, that is a long post that explains in great detail how little you know or understand about horse racing.

[Laurierace]

I think that not only should horses who ran in the derby only be allowed in the preakness and belmont but you should give the winner of the derby a head start.

Nah, they would find a way to screw that up. Nothing but walkovers until we have had so many triple crown winners we forgot what its like not to have one. Then racing will be saved right?

[J. Turner]

Makes for some great conversation too!

I love the commentary that RA wouldn't have won if she had been carrying equal weight. Well, that's the way it's always been for fillies and colts in the Triple Crown races, hasn't it? It might not be fair for a filly as big as RA, and a colt as little as MTB, but there's no historical precedent otherwise. Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Calico]

Frankly I was laughing at the irony in the 1st leg of MTB winning, reminded me of Birdsong (his sire) and SJ.

Mine That Bird's sire is BirdSTONE, who's sire is Grindstone (1996 Ky derby winner).

[regret]

I didn't know that Charles Widmore was involved in racing! Get Mulder and Scully on it right away.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Everyone knows that Jacob did it <g>.

[EponaRoan]

Everyone knows that Jacob did it <g>.

Well, I did see him going around touching all the jockeys AND the horses in the days before the race, so hmmmm .... you may be on to something. :cool:

[haligator]

Hi All,
A quick thank you to LaurieB, Regret, Laurierace, EponaRoan, Atypical, and other posters I might have left out who understood what I was trying to say.

Calamber - I'm sure you are a lovely human being and a decent upstanding person but do you honestly believe there was a 2009 Preakness conspiracy? Usually I'm pretty tactful but GIVE IT A BREAK! Jeez, people in horse racing can't agree on anything from drugs to claiming to training to the track kitchen for crying out loud. You really think they all got together and planned a finish made for TV and the jockeys went along with it?

Ach du Leibe im Himmel! Oy Gevalt.

Can I please have a drink of the Kool-Aid being offered on another thread (the one that started out about Michael Gill than wandered in such a fascinating way and now makes no sense because it seems someone pulled their posts)?

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH (Hallie runs screaming into the night).

I post so rarely anymore because I feel like I'm from a different and gentler planet. I just don't get it. Is it me? Is it my breath?

Best,
Hallie
Hallie I. McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC

PS - Nice quote I just re-discovered: "A dark horse which had never been thought of, and which the careless St. James had never even observed in the list, rushed past the grandstand in sweeping triumph." - Benjamin Disrael, Earl of Beaconsfield

[vineyridge]

Haligator, please don't run away permanently! You are a breath of fresh air, a true expert, and probably the best writer on this board. If you were a spice, you'd be cinnamon.

[Barnfairy]

Oh Hallie. No, it's not you. The whole world has gone hostile it seems.

And yes, you may have some Kool-Aid. If you are ever Suffolk-bound, please be sure to let us groupies know. I do try to be nice, though sometimes sarcasm gets the better of me. :winkgrin:

(Oh, and hooray for props to Ta Wee!!!!!!)

[blue&blond]

I didn't know that Charles Widmore was involved in racing! Get Mulder and Scully on it right away.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh goodness, for a moment there I was confused as to what message board I was on. :lol:

Ok, sorry...back to horses. But man, that threw me for a second. :D

[haligator]

Hiya,
Wow! Vineyridge and Barnfairy - you really know how to make a middle-aged, fluffy, size 16 lady with a notebook in her hand feel like a million bucks! Your kindness overwhelms me.

Vineyridge, I've never been described as nicely as you conjured me up to be....cinnamon. I like it! Most of my family and friends might think I'm more like cardamon, but bear in mind these are the same people who nicknamed me Rommel when I was a small child. And, I take it as high praise that you called me probably the best writer on this forum. Will you be at Saratoga at all this summer?

Barnfairy, tell me a fun day to come to Suffolk Downs and I'll be there. I actually have to do some interviews on the backstretch there for my next book (which is so far past due it's painful) so if you don't mind assisting me with directions and a few introductions I'd be a really happy camper. I've only been there once, many years ago, and I'm notorious for getting lost. Maybe I could take you to lunch or dinner?

So, yeppers, I'll keep posting and looking at the bright side of racing even if I sometimes sound like a blond. I certainly see all of racing's problems and am militant in some of my opinions but I'd rather dwell on the brilliance, beauty, and history of Thoroughbreds - my passion and love. And, yes, I do adore the immortal Ta Wee as well as so many others.

And, I can't believe it, I've hit 500 posts. It only took me nine years!

Best,
Hallie
Hallie I. McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC

PS - Another wonderful quote; Joe Palmer speaking about Man o' War - "He was as near living flame as horses ever get."

[Barnfairy]

Well, if you'd be coming from VT, perhaps it would make sense to meet me here in NH and then I can drive you the rest of the way...that way you'd get to meet the faaaymous Rasor D and Salty's Actress as well. :lol:

I'll PM you. :)