Horse with EPM not being treated

[Snappy]

This bothers me enough to seek advice or suggestions from
anyone who can share their knowledge....

8-10 yr old gelding at my barn diagnosed with EPM. He is able to walk fine, stay out all day/night in the pasture, has to spread his front legs wide to graze and can buck at and run away from the pasture bully. The owner has not persued any treatment for him and was heard to say she is not paying for a horse her daughter can't ride. SO - THEY ARE PLANNING ON PUTTING HIM DOWN END OF THIS MONTH.

On doing a small amount of research (Admittedly, I am no expert!) if he were to go on Marquis, he would stay the way he is or improve slightly. Hoping this is the case, he could live out his life with just a few neurological quirks. No, he shouldn't be ridden, etc. but I have that sick gut feeling when I think about it.

Would there be a research situation he could be in? Where they would get him the meds and study the effect on a horse at this stage of the disease? Anywhere to donate him? Gotta tell you, he is the nicest, cutest, just wants you to say hi to him horse. Any feedback will BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. I felt I should do something . . . . . .

[Posting Trot]

Actually some EPM horses with treatment can go back to being riding horses. There's a very good Yahoo group on EPM; you can access it through the list-owner's website: http://www.meadowherbs.com (http://www.meadowherbs.com/) Here's the link directly to the EPM links page: http://www.meadowherbs.com/EPMcenter.htm

There are also a huge number of links on EPM on her website. It's a great source of information.

I'm not sure what you can do about another person's horse, although talking to and educating the BO might be helpful. But you could also get burned unless you're very tactful.

Good luck; it does seem beyond the border of stupid, uncaring and wrong for the owners not to treat.

[arabhorse2]

If you have the money for treatment, offer to take him off their hands.

Otherwise, it's a MYOB situation, especially if they've found a vet willing to euth.

[Guin]

"Hoping this is the case, he could live out his life with just a few neurological quirks. No, he shouldn't be ridden, etc."

So you are saying the owner should pay for the lifelong upkeep and medical treatment of an unrideable horse who is eight years old, for the next ten or fifteen years? Maybe the owner's last name isn't Trump!

[fordtraktor]

Talk to the owners and see if you can adopt him yourself, pay for the expensive meds, and enjoy your pasture pet!

Otherwise, it is none of your business.

[cosmos mom]

Frankly, putting him down is a better option than starving him or dumping him somewhere. It's a sad and unfortunate reality. There are so many healthy ones at no one wants :(

[Woodsperson]

EPM does not mean that he can't be ridden again. That will depend on the neurological deficit after treatment. I continue to ride my horse that had EPM-although he does not jump any more.

On the other hand-if they can't or don't want to pay for the meds-which are expensive-euthanizing the horse is more responsible than trying to dump him off somewhere else.

[Posting Trot]

I just wanted to add one more thought.

Sometimes EPM is a trendy diagnosis--in other words, people do some very rudimentary tests and then come back with a diagnosis of EPM. The old blood test for EPM is notoriously unreliable--many horses test positive for exposure to the disease, but that doesn't mean that they have an active case of the disease.

So, it would be good to know if the horse has had a definitive diagnosis (via spinal tap or at least as a result of exhaustive tests for other possible causes).

I understand what some of the above posters are saying about myob, but I think they are being a little harsh.

[arabhorse2]

Posting Trot, if it was the OP's horse, then I'd say go ahead and do whatever tests are necessary to make a determination.

The bottom line is he's NOT her horse, and she doesn't get to say what happens to him.

I'd rather see the animal put down, than sold off or given away. I think the owner is being responsible. None of us, including the OP, know the owner's financial situation.

If the OP has the funds to do all the testings and provide medication for this animal for the rest of his life, I say adopt the animal and care for him herself.

If she's trying to impose HER will on someone else just because SHE doesn't want to see someone ELSE'S horse put down, then too bad, so sad.

[theoldgreymare]

University of Kentucky, the University of Florida, Ohio State, UC Davis, and Michigan State University used to do extensive EPM research. Maybe contact one of them and see if they are looking for donated horses at all.

I don't know what kind of life research horses live so I am inclined to say that if the owner's can't afford to/won't treat it, he would be better off being put down now. Their horse, their decision.

[readytorodeo]

This bothers me enough to seek advice or suggestions from
anyone who can share their knowledge....

8-10 yr old gelding at my barn diagnosed with EPM. He is able to walk fine, stay out all day/night in the pasture, has to spread his front legs wide to graze and can buck at and run away from the pasture bully. The owner has not persued any treatment for him and was heard to say she is not paying for a horse her daughter can't ride. SO - THEY ARE PLANNING ON PUTTING HIM DOWN END OF THIS MONTH.

On doing a small amount of research (Admittedly, I am no expert!) if he were to go on Marquis, he would stay the way he is or improve slightly. Hoping this is the case, he could live out his life with just a few neurological quirks. No, he shouldn't be ridden, etc. but I have that sick gut feeling when I think about it.

Would there be a research situation he could be in? Where they would get him the meds and study the effect on a horse at this stage of the disease? Anywhere to donate him? Gotta tell you, he is the nicest, cutest, just wants you to say hi to him horse. Any feedback will BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. I felt I should do something . . . . . .
I would try to get him. There is a treatment that will cost about 200.00 and it all herbal. It is from Silver Lining herbs. I have seen horses with EPM that literally had to lean against a wall to stand be brought back to competing with this product. If you can not get him or do not want to give it a try PM me and I will give you Mickeys number at Silver Lining and I bet he would take him.

[chaltagor]

It is from Silver Lining herbs.

Wow, I'm amazed you're promoting a product that isn't made by Swedish Horse Power.

[Pookah]

I am fortunate enough to have a recovered EPM horse who was able to return to competition after two years and many thousands of dollars. Many are not. Keep in mind that most of the "recovery statistics" quoted are horses who survived the disease. Many have neurological deficits for the remainder of their lives. EPM is a very serious disease, and while some horses are lucky enough to do one round of Marquis and move on with life, many are not. Because this is a neurological disease, there is an additional component that other lamenesses don't often have. A horse with continuing neurological deficits may become unsafe to ride or even to handle. If the owner is not prepared financially or emotionally to invest in a long recovery with the potential for a poor outcome, putting the horse down before it gets worse is the kindest decision she can make. Yes, it would be wonderful if the horse could be treated and live out life as a pasture pet, but that's just not a financial reality for everyone. I've helped a lot of people through the EPM process, and I will say that I think it's far better to opt not to treat than to get halfway through and decide that you just can't afford further treatment.

[2horseowner]

I agree w/ Pookah, EPM is very expensive to treat. My horse had a mild case and is slowly going back to work. EPM is an ongoing issue, so if you treat it, you must be committed. Putting the horse down would be kind thing before things progress horribly. I have spent big bucks on Marquis, I was lucky to be able to afford it. It can be a financial drain certainly. I would hope if the owners could, they may at least consider treatment, but I don't know them or their circumstances. I know how the OP feels when she heard the owner's comment. What a sad situation.

[BoysNightOut]

Marquis is expensive. That's why my first horse, who has EPM, is a wonderful pasture pal for a family near where I live. And as long as he's comfortable, which he is, he manages just fine. When he gets to the point of no longer being comfortable, I'm told he will be put down.

Nothing wrong with not being able to afford expensive treatment like that, as long as you do right by the horse, and don't let him suffer.

Unless you offer to buy him, and treat him yourself, I don't think you have a right to say anything.

[spookhorse]

I would try to get him. There is a treatment that will cost about 200.00 and it all herbal. It is from Silver Lining herbs. I have seen horses with EPM that literally had to lean against a wall to stand be brought back to competing with this product. If you can not get him or do not want to give it a try PM me and I will give you Mickeys number at Silver Lining and I bet he would take him.

Question is, does the horse need to stay on this for life?

Dealt with the aftermath of one of those "natural supplements" on my EPM horse. She was pronounced "cured" by the lady who had care of her and treated her with the supplement when Sam was first diagnosed with EPM. Once I had the horse and she was off the supplement a few months, the EPM came back worse than ever.

Despite doing the Marquis treatment for a month, and the Rebalance treatment for 4 months and all related supplements I could find, my horse never recovered. Due to her damage, she slowly foundered and was euthanized a little over two years later from the diagnosis with me.

I would personally be wary of the "natural supplements" or "herbal remedies" as these things have not been tested fully as to how well they work, or even how they work. EPM is a nasty disease, it's not something to play around with!

[FindersKeepers]

Managing a horse with EPM is expensive and a lifetime committment. Not that every horse isn't... but they will be higher maintenance. even if they make a full recovery, there's no telling what residual neurological deficits there will be.

If they don't have the money for Marquis, or don't want to spend their money homing a pasture pet with special needs, that is their business. Putting the horse down is far better than the alternatives.

Sure lots of horses return to a very "normal" life after treatment...but there are lots that don't. I have seen both ends of the specturm. A mare that had a severe case, treated, and was eventually well enough to be pleasure ridden. I have also seen a pony that was treated, suffered side effects, had lasting neurological damage, and suffered for months before the owner finally put them down.

They aren't putting the horse down for a hoof abcess... they're not out of line.

[minnie]

Unless you're willing to pay for the treatment (can run into thousands, ask me how I know) be prepared to take care of him for the rest of his life (could be as much as 20 years) it's best that you MYOB. While we all love our horses, unfortunately there's a practical side, too. You must remember that horses don't think in terms of longevity of life. Putting a young horse down is much more responsible than giving him away and trusting that whoever you give him to will do the right thing by him. Most times that just doesn't happen and horses often end up in very bad situations. In my opinion, they're being very responsible owners.

[KnKShowmom]

Not going to weigh in on the MYOB or not...

But will tell you that each EPM case is different pre and post treatment. The owner should realize that with treatment her daughter might very well be able to go back to riding her horse (depending on what they were doing before), IF they don't wait too long to make that decision.

DD's horse had EPM before we got him - they caught it early on and treated it right away. Post treatment he was downgraded to 2'9" but still gave her several good years and many nice ribbons before she out grew/out rode him. We have had no residual issues other than the cap on his fence heights.

Just wanted to give you the potential positive side to not waiting to treat EPM.

[Ghazzu]

Their horse, their decision.
Buy the beast if you want to treat it.

[mrsbradbury]

:no: I agree with it being the family's decision.

The remark made by the mother may be her way of separating herself from the awful decision. Unless you were present for the diagnosis and testing, Can you really assess the damage that has been done?

When I was a student the university had several EPM horses, that they were monitoring and studying with Marquis and another treatment. (This was when the prevalence of the disease was yet, unknown and Marquis was new.)

I saw the awful deterioration of these useful and beautiful animals, as well as a a couple success stories. This isn't a simple run of the mill disease, it has a diverse range of outcomes.

I don't find anything unnoble about providing euthanasia for an animal.

I would not want to subject my child (not that I have one); to a disease process of neurologic nature. For safety reasons and for the sanctity of a child's innocence. I would rather teach my child that the powers that be give us a gift to allow our loved creatures to pass on in the beautiful way that they are.

Please don't meddle in a family's grieving process; they need to do what's right for them.

[Snappy]

Thank you to all the posters that responded with constructive comments regarding this horse and his situation. I was seeking information and ideas. The owner hasn't done a thing except a blood test. I haven't spoken with the owner and don't plan to unless I make the decision to take on this horse.

Thanks again.