Calling all endurance riders...Advice please!! (sorry, quite long!)

[Mongolia]

Hi everyone,

I am new here, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me?!


I just found out that come August I am going to be embarking on a 1000km horse race / adventure across Mongolia...!!!

See below:
"On 22 August in the year 2009 twenty-five courageous riders will mount their steeds amidst the ruins of the Great Khaan's ancient capital Kharkhorin, to face a gruelling 1000 km race across the empty wilderness of Mongolia. This will be no ordinary horse race. The Mongol Derby is not a test of the horse's speed, but the rider's skill, endurance and the toughness of the skin between their legs. And by Jove will it put that to the test...

Back in the days when Mr Chinggis ruled the world there was an obvious need to keep in touch with the various corners of his empire. So he took the existing ancient and rather small network of horse messengers and supercharged it, creating a mind-bendingly efficient relay system of horse-stations that enabled his messengers to go faster than the speed of light itself. With horses stationed every 30 to 40 km it's said he could get a message from Mongolia to Eastern Europe in just fourteen days. Slightly faster than the post today.

The Great Khaan's mighty postal system may have long since faded into history, but this year in the shimmering heat of the summer The Adventurists, in partnership with Tengri, will resurrect the horse-stations and gather 800 horses to create the mother of all races.

The Mongol Derby will see you tackle the challenge of semi-wild horses and surviving alone in the wild steppes of Mongolia. There's no carefully marked course, no catering tent and no support; this is horse racing on a whole new scale. You will change steed every 40 km so the horses will be fresh. Bleeding kidneys, broken limbs, open sores, sun stroke, moon stroke and a list of dangers longer than your arm stand between the you and victory. "


So there it is. The Mongol Derby. Its the first time they are doing this, I think it is officially the longest horse race in the world...and I am so excited, but at the same time absolutely terrified!! The horses will be fine - they are tough as nails, in great condition, and as it says above we'll be switching horses every 40 km. The horse's safety is absolutely paramount above all else - they have veterinary back up, and we will all be given training as to how to judge condition, make sure we're not pushing them too hard, etc. Its me I'm worried about!

I am late starting, as I was on the waiting list and then someone dropped out, so I have until August to get in the best shape of my life! Although I have been riding all my life, I have never really ridden over long distances...so I was wondering if any of you experienced endurance riders had any advice for me?

Exercises to do, what kind of clothes to wear, how to prevent/deal with saddle sores, etc etc...any tips of any kind are welcome!!

Right now I am feeling slighly overwhelmed, so any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks so much,

Sophie

[Shadow14]

600 miles is a long long way. What are your plans for mileage covered every day? I would love to hear about your horse, breed, age, experience and yours as well. It would be a ride of a lifetime? Where are you comming from?

[Bells]

If you can pick up the show "Long Way Around" - watch the episodes on traveling in Mongolia. Great show and might help w/some of your planning/what to expect about the area.

[JackSprats Mom]

Best advice I can give you is start riding longer distances now if you can. There is a HUGE difference between riding 10-12 miles a day and 25 (as my thighs can tell you right now :winkgrin:).

Looks like an amazing adventure...let us know how it goes.

[Mongolia]

Thanks so much for your replies,

I was on the wait list, and I just got told last week that someone had dropped out, and they offered me a place. I still have to speak with them and find out more details, so nothing is confirmed yet. The horses we'll be using are Mongol ponies - very hardy, and pretty much made for this kind of thing. As far as mileage covered per day - I really don't know yet, like I said, I've still got to speak to them about everything, so this is very much still in the planning/exciting idea stage!

I think what I'm basically trying to figure out is if this is physically feasible for me to do! Especially because I'm going to be about two months behind everyone else on the training front (the original 25 found out in March). I am absolutely dying to do it...and I know I'm tough...but I also realize that if I do decide to go for it, it will be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, and so I have to be reasonable...

A bit more background on me:

I'm 23, just finishing up University, so I'll have the whole summer free to train. I've been riding all my life, did a lot of hunter/jumper stuff when I was younger, and have been kept riding through uni but at a much more relaxed pace! I've also dabbled in exercising polo ponies and racehorses over the years, but very sporadically, and not for a while. I've done a lot of travelling on my own, and backpacking/hiking up in the mountains. I'm currently based in the UK, but might be going back to LA (where my mom lives, and where I grew up) for the summer, depending on where I can find more horses to ride. I'm in reasonable physical condition, not even close to what I will need to be for the race, but I think it will come back pretty quickly as I've always been reasonably fit and it doesn't take me very long to really get in shape. Riding-wise, I'm definitely not as riding-fit as I have been in the past, but again, it tends to come back pretty quickly for me.

However, I have an inkling that long distance riding is a whole different ballgame!

If I do decide to go for it, I don't think I will have access to go on really long distance rides in preparation. If I go back to LA, I should be able to find lots of horses to exercise around where I used to ride, as lots of people go away for the summer and I've been riding horses for people over there for years. Do you think that riding 5+ horses a day (for about 1 hr each, some longer probably - but probably mainly in an arena) would be similar, fitness/preparation-wise, to riding one horse over long distances? I would do a lot of work in 2 point and without stirrups. If I stay here in the UK, I would need to find someone with polo ponies or racehorses to gallop, and I'm not sure I have the connections, especially in the summer when the weather is nice(ish!). So I think I will probably end up going back to California. Also because it will better prepare me for the heat!

So, do you guys think this kind of preparation would be anything close to what I would need? Or, is there a better way to prepare with limited long distance riding opportunities, but potentially several horses that need exercising? Like I said, I'm pretty clueless, but very adventurous, and I would really love to have this experience of a lifetime!

Thanks so much for your advice!

[Shadow14]

23 is a great age but I don't feel you have the stamina that comes with older age to do something like this. You have also never experienced the pain of spending 8-10 or more hours in the saddle. I had a partner who rode 25 miles a day or a 2 day 50 every weekend and yet when it came to the full 50 in one day she had a problem at 40 plus miles, and alot do with the 50.
I also now a lady that won the shore to shore ride, or 250 mile run but it was hard for her to go on every day, to get up and back on each day. You will be more then doubling that and she was very experienced.
Riding all day, day after day is a long way from exercizing polo ponies. Riding a tired horse is alot harder then a fresh one.
I feel you are taking on too much, don't have the years of experience and don't really know what you are getting into.
But this is an old experience body talking. Pay my way and let me ride in your place. :lol::)
Try to pick up a ride for a 100 in the states to give you a taste of what you are getting into and then thing about doing 6 more of them back to back.

[rainechyldes]

I'll have to say:
Not to be a downer, but riding 5 horses a day in an arena will NOT prepare you for day after day of open terrain riding of long distances.
It's a whole nother ball of wax.

you need to find someone who will let you ride their distance horses on a daily basis.

[Icecapade]

I second... arena work = bad mojo for training for this.

you will need a few horses I would imagine to get yourself in shape (not just them since whoever's horse you ride probably won't be thrilled with you riding the piss out of them)

Just north of LA there are a handful of endurance peeps (I know my family has a few horses that could... ahem use the work ;) )and plenty of land to ride for hours and hours and coordinate w/ parallel roads water breaks and what not.


I also have to disagree w/ Shadow on the age thing... no so much as a lack of stamina... more I think that it has to do w/ most young folks today (complete generalization here) do not have guts. plain and simple. They realize they are in pain and quit, or that something takes hard work and they quit... they don't know how to shut up and keep riding till something falls off or they run out of duck tape to hold it on :D Now I'm not saying YOU are one of those people... I can't tell you that, its simply an observation of a generation.

Because stamina isn't built over years persay but just doing it over and over again... and I believe in riding that can be achomplished in the course of some months, especially if your time is dominated soley w/ riding and training.

that being said, you are younger and will bounce better and you are more likely to get into shape faster if you get right on it and you can train any potential mental weakness out of your body.

Sounds like an incredible oppertunity I wish you the best and there better be some LDKJFDS2$#@ pictures! :D

[Shadow14]

On 22 August in the year 2009 twenty-five courageous riders will mount their steeds amidst the ruins of the Great Khaan's ancient capital Kharkhorin, to face a gruelling 1000 km race across the empty wilderness of Mongolia.



The Mongol Derby will see you tackle the challenge of semi-wild horses and surviving alone in the wild steppes of Mongolia. There's no carefully marked course, no catering tent and no support; this is horse racing on a whole new scale. You will change steed every 40 km so the horses will be fresh. Bleeding kidneys, broken limbs, open sores, sun stroke, moon stroke and a list of dangers longer than your arm stand between the you and victory. "[/I]





Read that carefully and then tell me it is a place for a 23 year old girl who has to ask questions, doesn't have the years of experience nor the proven track record. It is really a joke if the top 25 riders in the world include total novices to the endurance world.
No a ride like this is for the older experienced riders, not the novices. It is about pain , perserverance and pushing when you body is ready to lay down and die, you will get lost, you will be out a night and in a strange country with strange people.
At 63 I would be far more qualified to do something like that then a 23 year old kid.

[Shadow14]

One more question?? How many of you mothers or fathers would let your 23 year old daughter run across country unassisted, alone on a half wild pony in a strange country with strange surroundings???
This is not some adventure for some rich kid but a true test of the best.:)

[Icecapade]

I don't think the age again is necessarily the sticking point- you are correct when you say not for a novice.

I would imagine at my age compared to yours I'd fair better than you... but I spent many years beating my body past what it was able.... but I am ahem we shall estimate half your age.

But I have pushed my body fair enough and continue to do so. I would probably hold up better than you. I think it has to do more w/ training and how you were raised and trained... so a novice no... but a 20 something year old could do it yes.

[twofatponies]

Wow - that sounds fantastic! Long daily riding will get your SKIN ready for the trip as much as your muscles. You don't want to get chafed on that long a ride!!

And Shadow - I don't think she's going to give you her golden ticket no matter how many horror stories you try to tell her! :D

[rainechyldes]

I think 23 is fine.
Sorry Shadow, I disagree.

If she's fit for the ride, she'll do perfectly well. younger bodies recover more quickly, remember?:)
The age isn't the issue, the being prepared correctly for long hours of open terrain is.

when I was 23 I bounced when I fell off a horse, and now.. not so much.

And I went to Europe to ride when I was 18, alone, for 3 years.
Not an issue with my parents at all.

Not only that, we know absolutely nothing about this person's ability to perservere and drive themselves.
I drive myself just as hard now, as I did as a teenager. Personalities don't change.

[Shadow14]

I still don't agree that a 23 year old has the stamina. I know her body is young but stamina comes only with years and years of pushing/punishing your body. My son in law is 6 4 and muscled but when the work gets really hard he yields to the old man. I work in hay mounds putting in hay in the extreme heat and the young guys come into the mow for a few loads and then they lay out on the grass and the old man just keeps on going up in the heat and working all day long.
From years of working with young adults I know they have the strength, the vitality but they lack the endurance that only an abused body can endure.
As for the bounce thing I have been bounced very hard many times in the last 2 years and each and every time I bounce right back up off the ground or pavement and get right back on with no ill effects. No I am old but I bounce extremely well.
I think this is all a dream, not a realistic one either and riding in Europe for 3 years is nothing compared to running across the country on half wild ponies , racing against professionals.
It will never happen, just a dream.
If they allow an amature then the quality of this race is a joke and only about money.

[Shadow14]

Shadow14 -

This thread isn't about you. NOTHING in it is about you. )

I know this is not about me. I am talking about stamina. Weather young or old is better. Having been both I feel more qualified to judge which is better. Experience vs youth??
We race young 3 year olds because they have the speed of youth but you don't endurance ride a 3 year old because he lacks the stamina. You can't compete in a 50 on anything younger then 5. An endurance horse is said to reach his peak at 12?? By this age he has the stamina, has learned how to conserve himself, how to travel relaxed, just plain experience.
Toughness comes with abuse over a long time, not age.
We are not talking about a one day ride where you can get sore but then it is over. We are talking about at least 8 days of pounding from dawn till after dusk.

I seem to be the only one that thinks she is too young, too inexperienced so prove me wrong. Go for it. If you complete the run then I will leave here for good and you guys can be rid of me and my ranting. So again prove me wrong.

[psidio]

OK...

Adventure can be quite wonderful. I love Adventures. But there is a difference between adventure and outright foolishness. Just as Sherlock Holmes was curious about the dog that didn't bark during the night, you should be wondering why, with this supposed great Endurance riding Adventure, that there aren't any experienced Endurance Riders going? Looking at the bios on their website, I don't see that anybody entered has even attempted one 50 mile endurance ride. The question you should ask yourself is why no experienced Endurance riders have decided to partake of this adventure?

It's like if there was going to be an unguided expedition on Mt Everest, and none of the participants had ever climbed any mountains in their lives, and whose total climbing experience was about having played on those gym climbing walls, or having lived a few years in a hilly area..

In addition to what would be an incredibly difficult Long Rider type trek, we add extra foolishness points by making it a race. Then instead of riding a horse you know, we are going to put you on 25 strange half wild ponies and turn you loose in very unhospitable country on your own. More like a recipe for disaster, than a description of an Adventure.

So let's assume you are serious about this. OK.Get serious. You are talking about riding 90-100 miles per day for three or four days in a row, taking a day off to party and then riding 90-100 miles per day again for three or four days. Hacking around an arena or doing some leisurely trail riding a few hours a day will no more get you ready for this than walking your Cocker Spanial in the park would prepare you for the Ideterod Dog Sled Race in Alaska. The websites prose doesn't even begin tell you about the difficulties to be faced.. Wolves on trail will be the least of your worries.

Get connected now with Endurance riders and do a 50 mile ride or two asap. Forget playing with some polo ponies or riding friends horses to exercise them. You are supposed to be entering a competition, so start competing. Every time I have taken another step in distance, I have had to make adjustments in tack, drugs, clothing, hydration, food, drugs, skin lubes, drugs, fitness, equitation, (did I mention drugs?) I have had the benefit of being close to civilization to get supplies, and having time to make the changes. My guess is that mini marts are few and far between on the steppes of Mongolia. AAA may not offer coverage there either. So you need to find out what works now. You have about 75 days to learn years of experience. Quit messing around and get cracking. Find an Endurance ride near you this weekend, and go see what is going on. Talk to the riders and get ideas on where you need to start working. This "Maybe I'll summer in the country in England or at Momma's in California" stuff needs to stop. If you are serious about taking on a very dangerous task, you need to get serious about it. There are at least two phrases you need to learn to speak in what ever language they use in Mongolia. #1) Please don't kill me. #2) Please kill me. Depending on how the ride goes, you may want to use both of them.


In Endurance riding we have a saying. "Never try anything at a ride that you haven't first tried at home.". You need to ride 50 miles and more at one stretch. You need to camp out with a strange horse in the wild. You need to do this before you are 6,00 miles from home.

One other little extra point of difficulty. Reading the website leads me to believe you will have to carry your supplies for 1/2 of the race at a time. We have a ride here in the USA where riders attempt something like that. The Old Dominion 100 offers the option of riding "Cavalry". Riders are not allowed any assistance, other than water being supplied for horse and rider. In the past 13 years, only 3 riders have accomplished this. The OD takes place in a civilized area with help never more than a few miles away, yet only Three riders... Thirteen years.... The Mongol Derby proposes that you do three times as much distance without a break, then repeat it again. On 25 strange and half wild horses in very remote country. You are supposed to race until you run out of light and then camp out with your strange horse. (hope he is easy to hobble.. You did remember the hobbles didn't you?) What supplies do you think you will need to survive for 3 -4 days? You need protection from heat of day and cold of night. (The high steppes will get darned chilly when the sun goes down.) How will you carry all that stuff? Here is a fun exercise to try. Get a green broke horse, load him up with saddle bags, camping gear etc. Then climb on and yell "giddy up". When the stuff starts banging around at the canter, the games will begin. For the Mongol Derby, you will get to do this 25 times on a new horse. What could possibly go wrong?

Like I said earlier, Adventure can be wonderful. Get prepared in a serious manner or be prepared for serious injury or worse. If you decide to get serious, then Endurance riders will help you a lot.

Good luck,

Paul N. Sidio
KMA Chazz Piper
VA `Southern Gentleman (General Lee)
Spokane MO

[Auventera Two]

Whoa, wow. Um, ok. It's one thing to have a dream and to be ambitious, but this is plain......out there. I agree with Norval and Pual here. *IF* you are seriously going to do this, there are MAJOR things that you need to do right now.

As far as I know, riding a 100 mile endurance ride Cavalry (with no crew) is the hardest of all endurance rides. Paul, haven't you ridden cavalry???? I thought you did. Anyway, so then multiply that times 6, day after day after day.......wow boy, I don't know.

A regular endurance ride is hard enough being out in the woods, moving fast, having to carry what you need....but good grief, you have a vet check every 12-25 miles with a crew to give you sandwhiches out of the cooler, ice your horse's legs, and hold his reins while you go to the porta potty. In the steppes of Mongol with no marked trail and no crew and no towns and no assitance.......:eek:

There's a lot of ways I wouldn't mind dying but stranded in the wild bush of Mongolia is NOT one of them.

One thing that helps me get down the trail when I'm tired or just want to quit is that I have this AMAZING bond with my horse. Just being with her makes the world right. I could not even imagine doing this on a strange horse - much less 20 some strange horses. Half wild ones at that.

And riding a big floaty Arab trot for endless miles and hours is a whole lot different than riding a jackhammer pony trot for 600 miles. To prepare yourself for that, you need to borrow some choppy downhill quarter horses and shetland ponies and ride them for 50 miles a day, day after day. See how your muscles and bones hold up. After 10 miles on my choppy strided quarter horse, I'm ready to get off and walk.

Boy, good luck on whatever you decide, but I hope you give this a long hard look and really weigh benefits and risks. It could be the experience of a lifetime but it could be the end of your life, too!

[twofatponies]

If this is a reality show, half the "fun" (for the audience) is a) being able to think the participants are pretty regular folks, not pros b) getting lots of "drama" about wolves and pain and danger, even if it's mostly editing and hype. There will be a TV crew and other support vehicles, even if you aren't allowed to interact with them. If you fall off and break your arm, someone will have a splint etc. They won't let you die alone on the steppe!

But they are looking for the participants to be a little in over their heads, I think, so it makes for better TV.

So you can't finish, at least you had a grand adventure! Don't skip this opportunity because you might not be totally prepared. It will be a blast. But do train like you're going to the Olympics between now and then!!

If you can find a few sheepskin saddle covers (that would fit a Western saddle), you can probably rig those up to cover your Mongolian saddle.

[Icecapade]

...just plain experience.
Toughness comes with abuse over a long time, not age.


I seem to be the only one that thinks she is too young, too inexperienced so prove me wrong.

no one said she wasn't to inexperianced as many people pointed out she needs a lot to get ready... I'd be exteremly leary of doing it this point due to the lack of training, but that doesn't mean she can't. I'd be willing to say yeah she is inexperianced and it sounds like if she goes its going to be ROUGH. Buuuuutttt


I think saying someone of 23 years old doesn't have stamina is pishposh. I grew up with Marines and let me tell you saying that young men and women don't have stamina... is insulting.

I have friends/family who died who were less than 20... don't tell me they don't have stamina... dragging people over things getting blown to bits. Military personal have been doing things everyone else can't and won't for years. (civil war much- New Market March?... WWI and WWII much...Bata'an Death March)

I hate to make this a military thing as there are plenty of... Oh I don't know... olympians who compete at the age of like... gee 16.

how old is m. Phelps again? can someone remind me, that has apparently slipped my mind.

[psidio]

RE: "If this is a reality show,..." It is not a reality TV show. It is reality. The website is very plain about this. You are on your own. This is not "Survivor Mongolia". This is real, not made for TV.

If the stuff hits the fan, your only support is from your GPS emergency beacon.. Assuming it didn't break in a fall, or fall off on trail a few miles back, or gallop off into the distance when the horse pitched you off, you will be just fine. Also assuming that the support vehicles haven't broken down, or gone on ahead with the frontrunners, or gotten lost themselves. Otherwise it could be lights out.

Read the threads on this board about the endless saddle search that many Endurance riders deal with. Ask them about how a minor difference in stirrup placement can make the difference between agony and completing. Ask them about why it is crucial that the saddle needs to fit you and the horse very very well when riding long distances at speed. In the Mongol Derby, they are picking out the saddles for you. Hope it fits you. If it doesn't fit you, it will hurt more than any pain you can imagine. It won't matter if you are 23 or 73 years old. Raw wounds that go clear to the bone are the same for anybody, no matter how old they are. Tweaked knees and ankles from improper tack can cripple you at any age.

Auventura: Yes, I did the OD100 riding Cavalry in 2007. We are planning to do it again this June. It took me months of practice and preparation to get my gear stowed right. That was just for 100 miles, and 24 hours. When I finished, I was toast. The next morning, when trotting out for BC, my legs and back were in agony. This will be much tougher. There are several rides now offering the Cavalry option for 50 miles. Trust me that 50 Cavalry miles is much easier than 100 Cavalry miles. I can't imagine 300 Cavalry miles at a time on a dozen different strange horses and riding a strange saddle.

My stomach flinches when thinking about my western digestive system trying to switch over to mutton and fermented mares milk in just a few days. (lamb is delicious, mutton tastes exactly like how a billy goat smells during breeding season. Musky) Lots of toilet paper would be essential. They mention drinking out of the streams and creeks. That should also help keep the bowels good and loose. They may not need GPS systems to follow you. The methane plume alone may be sufficient:-)

One interesting thing on the website is that riders should bring their own bridles, reins and BITS!!! As if riding a strange half wild pony wasn't difficult enough, you will need to break 25 of them to this new bit and headgear over the 600 miles. Like I said earlier, wolves on trail may be the least of your worries.

Sophie, what Endurance ride have you found for this weekend?

Paul N. Sidio
KMA Chazz Piper (three 100 mile completions, plus an 86 mile and a 90 mile training ride)
VA Southern Gentleman/General Lee. (May have recently set an AERC record by finishing Top 10 in his first two rides and also Turtle both times:-)
Spokane MO

[Willobeasty]

I've been to Mongolia and ridden those ponies - my hat's off to you if you plan to ride those things 600 miles!!!! Think 600 miles on a pogo stick...and the Mongols stand in the stirrups, BTW. If you are in UK, contact Boojum Expeditions and ask them what you should be prepared for.

I had two friends who actually did an "extreme adventure" - the one on the Discovery channel in the mid-90's. They came to my place to train for the horseback part (in which they had to catch the horse, saddle it and ride...they didn't know one end from another). They were disqualified - off course, lost, hungry and with blisters on bodyparts hitherto unknown - when one member of their team refused to go on from mental and physical exhaustion. They were soooo angry, but eventually set off the beacon for rescue.

These were multiple-time Iron Men and Ultramarathoners, by the way!

Physical conditioning would be top priority - running, weight training. For that many days of physical effort, you will need to build immense cardio & muscle endurance. They trained like 3 hours a day for months. Trained HARD. Dang they were fit!

It sounds like a fabulous adventure! I would have jumped at the chance in my younger days! How many people will ever have THAT story to tell people about?

And yes, I imagine trying a Pioneer ride if you can, and a 100 miler would give you a vague idea. But those Mongolian ponies...sheesh!

[katarine]

I think anyone would have to be insane to attempt this.

You had damn well better get your butt to LA today and get on a horse on a TRAIL and don't get off until you get on a plane.

Learn to read a GPS six ways from Sunday.

Learn to hobble.

Learn to tie on whatever it is you need, every day, to that saddle.

Sleep outside. Go feral. WAAAY feral.

get one of these:
http://www.steripen.com/travel/products.html

get an appt with your Dr and get the ideal antibiotics and anti-diarheeals (sp?) and plan on vitamins and such).

Learn to deal with nasty raw chapped skin and keep on riding. Study up on first aid for yourself and serious backcountry skills.

Seriously- this sounds like a nightmare. All the money in the world wouldn't get me in this race. Big money for the joy of endless nasty food, bed bugs, and 600 miles on junky half broke mutts? No way, just no way.



I hope you have people who can and will travel with you to Mongolia so you can be cared for when you fall apart. You will. Anyone would.

[Auventera Two]

Boy you said it katarine. There are a zillion ways to raise money for charity without doing something like this. And besides, that $8,000 or whatever entry fee could just be given to the charity and be done with it. If you want to raise money for charity then take that entry fee and give it to the charity. Why put yourself and these horses through this? People have a tough enough time doing pioneer rides of 50 miles per day for 6 days straight. Not many seasoned endurance riders even take on that challenge, or complete all the days if they DO decide to take a stab at it. And that's with regular vet checks, crew members, access to pizzas and sub sandwhiches and iced cold root beer, medical attention, and sleeping in the living quarters of a 50,000 horse trailer each night. :eek:

Endurance riding on a well seasoned and broke horse is tough enough, let alone trying to do it on a half wild, barely broke 12 hand feral pony. Good lord, what are these people thinking.

And just take into consideration the welfare of the horses. What is the chance that you are going to be able to identify if the pony is moving stiff and not quite right, or isn't eating and drinking to its potential. What if the animal steps in a hole and breaks its leg 200 miles from nowhere and there you sit? Do you kill it yourself with your bare hands, or do you let it lay there in agony until it dies, or....... What's the chance that the tack will fit you and the horse perfectly enough to be able to do all those miles without pain or damage to the yourself or the horse? What if the horse develops a bleeding girth gall and you have 60 miles to go till your next checkpoint? You just press on and injure the horse worse? Or do you get off and walk the remaining 60 miles? Or do you toss your saddle and ride bareback?

Did anyone notice on the website that it says the ponies are all barefoot? I can't believe nobody commented on that yet.

The whole thing is weird, and that website is creepy. :dead: Adventure is great but lets be realistic here. This is the year 2009 and I'd like to think the world has progressed to the point that we don't have to act like barbarians to raise money for a charity event and harm animals in the process.

[katarine]

those horses have feet like donkeys- hard as four hells. No need for shoes. and I'm going to BET questionable 'vet support'.

and the rider IS responsible for getting the horse to the next stop. period. Or if there's an injury...they will be there in a while. Better have a snack with you.

I do sorta serious back country riding sometimes and to see this gal, bright eyed and bushy tailed and eager- alternately annoys me and makes me chuckle. Annoyed that she disrespects what this really looks like through experienced eyes...and amused to realize she just ain't got the first clue.

[Mongolia]

Thank you to everyone for all your advice,

After a lot of deliberation, I decided not to go for it. Mainly because I really just couldn't afford it. Also because I don't think that I have enough time to physically and mentally prepare for it. If this one goes well for them, I'll apply again next year, hopefully with a bit more in my savings account, and with some long distance experience under my belt. I know its clear that many of you think its an absurd idea, but I think its an incredible way to travel through a country and get to know a culture that you don't run into on your average package holiday tour. The fact that it was a race never crossed my mind. And while I'm sure I have a romanticized and idealized image in my head, and that the reality of it will probably be the darker side of hell, if I have enough time to get prepared, and get some experience in the next year...well what a unique and incredible experience of a lifetime it will be.


Anyway, so thats that. No Mongol Derby for me this year. Once again, thank you all for your advice and support.

Sophie

[pj]

One more question?? How many of you mothers or fathers would let your 23 year old daughter run across country unassisted, alone on a half wild pony in a strange country with strange surroundings???
This is not some adventure for some rich kid but a true test of the best.:)

:lol: Shadow, how do you stop them?? :D At 23 they might listen but will do what they want to do providing you aren't paying of course.

[pj]

I seem to be the only one that thinks she is too young, too inexperienced so prove me wrong. Go for it. If you complete the run then I will leave here for good and you guys can be rid of me and my ranting. So again prove me wrong.

I don't think she's too young at all but I DO think she doesn't have the experience or the know how to do this at this time in her life. I'm afraid she is biting off more than she knows. Whatever she decides to do I wish her luck.

[pj]

OP, please read this post again and then again.

OK...

Adventure can be quite wonderful. I love Adventures. But there is a difference between adventure and outright foolishness. Just as Sherlock Holmes was curious about the dog that didn't bark during the night, you should be wondering why, with this supposed great Endurance riding Adventure, that there aren't any experienced Endurance Riders going? Looking at the bios on their website, I don't see that anybody entered has even attempted one 50 mile endurance ride. The question you should ask yourself is why no experienced Endurance riders have decided to partake of this adventure?

It's like if there was going to be an unguided expedition on Mt Everest, and none of the participants had ever climbed any mountains in their lives, and whose total climbing experience was about having played on those gym climbing walls, or having lived a few years in a hilly area..

In addition to what would be an incredibly difficult Long Rider type trek, we add extra foolishness points by making it a race. Then instead of riding a horse you know, we are going to put you on 25 strange half wild ponies and turn you loose in very unhospitable country on your own. More like a recipe for disaster, than a description of an Adventure.

So let's assume you are serious about this. OK.Get serious. You are talking about riding 90-100 miles per day for three or four days in a row, taking a day off to party and then riding 90-100 miles per day again for three or four days. Hacking around an arena or doing some leisurely trail riding a few hours a day will no more get you ready for this than walking your Cocker Spanial in the park would prepare you for the Ideterod Dog Sled Race in Alaska. The websites prose doesn't even begin tell you about the difficulties to be faced.. Wolves on trail will be the least of your worries.

Get connected now with Endurance riders and do a 50 mile ride or two asap. Forget playing with some polo ponies or riding friends horses to exercise them. You are supposed to be entering a competition, so start competing. Every time I have taken another step in distance, I have had to make adjustments in tack, drugs, clothing, hydration, food, drugs, skin lubes, drugs, fitness, equitation, (did I mention drugs?) I have had the benefit of being close to civilization to get supplies, and having time to make the changes. My guess is that mini marts are few and far between on the steppes of Mongolia. AAA may not offer coverage there either. So you need to find out what works now. You have about 75 days to learn years of experience. Quit messing around and get cracking. Find an Endurance ride near you this weekend, and go see what is going on. Talk to the riders and get ideas on where you need to start working. This "Maybe I'll summer in the country in England or at Momma's in California" stuff needs to stop. If you are serious about taking on a very dangerous task, you need to get serious about it. There are at least two phrases you need to learn to speak in what ever language they use in Mongolia. #1) Please don't kill me. #2) Please kill me. Depending on how the ride goes, you may want to use both of them.


In Endurance riding we have a saying. "Never try anything at a ride that you haven't first tried at home.". You need to ride 50 miles and more at one stretch. You need to camp out with a strange horse in the wild. You need to do this before you are 6,00 miles from home.

One other little extra point of difficulty. Reading the website leads me to believe you will have to carry your supplies for 1/2 of the race at a time. We have a ride here in the USA where riders attempt something like that. The Old Dominion 100 offers the option of riding "Cavalry". Riders are not allowed any assistance, other than water being supplied for horse and rider. In the past 13 years, only 3 riders have accomplished this. The OD takes place in a civilized area with help never more than a few miles away, yet only Three riders... Thirteen years.... The Mongol Derby proposes that you do three times as much distance without a break, then repeat it again. On 25 strange and half wild horses in very remote country. You are supposed to race until you run out of light and then camp out with your strange horse. (hope he is easy to hobble.. You did remember the hobbles didn't you?) What supplies do you think you will need to survive for 3 -4 days? You need protection from heat of day and cold of night. (The high steppes will get darned chilly when the sun goes down.) How will you carry all that stuff? Here is a fun exercise to try. Get a green broke horse, load him up with saddle bags, camping gear etc. Then climb on and yell "giddy up". When the stuff starts banging around at the canter, the games will begin. For the Mongol Derby, you will get to do this 25 times on a new horse. What could possibly go wrong?

Like I said earlier, Adventure can be wonderful. Get prepared in a serious manner or be prepared for serious injury or worse. If you decide to get serious, then Endurance riders will help you a lot.

Good luck,

Paul N. Sidio
KMA Chazz Piper
VA `Southern Gentleman (General Lee)
Spokane MO

[pj]

Aww I posted before I saw that OP had decided against the ride. She's smarter than I thought :) I'm glad.

[Shadow14]

:lol: Shadow, how do you stop them?? :D At 23 they might listen but will do what they want to do providing you aren't paying of course.

The paying is the big thing. 23, at university in another country?? Who is paying the bills??
That said if I said no to either my son or daughter and was against it they would not go against my wishes.
I would be a matter of respect:D

[Southernboy]

It was interesting to read your posts on training for this trip. I was surprised that no one mentioned acclimation. Mongolia steppes average about 5000 feet. It would be similar to training in LA and then riding in Denver. Of course the native ponies would be acclimated to Mongolia, but would the rider need to train at a higher elevation or would it not make that much difference?

[JackSprats Mom]

How many of you mothers or fathers would let your 23 year old daughter run across country unassisted, alone on a half wild pony in a strange country with strange surroundings???

Actually in Europe its generally encouraged to load up your back pack and go explore, this is just an added on that. At 24 I pack up mine flew 6000 miles to a place I didn't know, with no one here, one bag a very little money. 13 years later I'm still here.

At 18 I packed up my back pack went all over Italy on the train, slept under a tree in Sienna after watch the Palio with a 16 year old friend. Travelled around Rome, and a whole bunch of other places.

At 21 I hitch hiked from the UK to Holland in a race with friends to get to Amsterdam (no public transportation allowed, rules were you had to hitch hike).

Trust me folks do this stuff the whole time and survive.

Not read the website, honestly it sounds like it hasn't been thought out well but the idea of packing up and riding across Mongolia seems GREAT (now the race and no support seems stupid).

She's young, let her dream and travel :P

[Eddy's Mom]

Crew for Tevis this year if you end up in CA for the summer.... seeing some of the horses/riders there riding 100 miles in 24 hours may change the way you think about riding 600 miles in a period of day.

I'm glad you decided not to go for it! I think you'd be much better off finding an experienced endurance rider in the area and doing some real endurance rides. You may find that after a 50 you have no desire to go on, or you may find that 50 isn't enough and you want more! Regardless, it is a safe, controlled environment. I cannot even imagine riding a strange horse in a strange country with strange tack! I switched out my stirrup leathers last weekend and after 100 miles was absolutely dying of pain from my bad ankle. Riding 50 miles in something unfamiliar is an absolute no-no for me, let alone 600 miles!!

[citydog]

This event has been condemned by the Longriders' Guild and it made the FHOTD blog today (http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/2009/06/tom-morgan-youre-fhotd-idiot-du-jour.html).

[CosMonster]

I really want to ride across Mongolia, too, but I think doing it in a race such as the one proposed is stupid, unethical and abusive. Seriously, there are lots of ways to do it. I think you definitely made the right decision this year, OP, and as far as next year I'd forget it too. There have been people who have ridden across Mongolia on a long ride at a slower, safer pace. Of course you still face dangers there by the nature of the beast (any time any of us are riding in isolated areas anywhere in the world it is dangerous; of course, it wouldn't be an adventure otherwise) but you are at least being fair to the horse, getting to know them and travelling at a reasonable pace.

I'd recommend you read a great deal on the Longriders' Guild website (www.thelongridersguild.com). They have a lot of good information about how to ethically and safely (or as safely as possible anyway) do this sort of thing.

ETA also if you want to see the country, racing across it seems like a pretty dumb way to go about it. Much better to take a reasonable pace and actually get to see the country. :)

[bort84]

I know its clear that many of you think its an absurd idea, but I think its an incredible way to travel through a country and get to know a culture that you don't run into on your average package holiday tour. The fact that it was a race never crossed my mind. And while I'm sure I have a romanticized and idealized image in my head, and that the reality of it will probably be the darker side of hell, if I have enough time to get prepared, and get some experience in the next year...well what a unique and incredible experience of a lifetime it will be

Hahaha! I really doubt there'd be a whole lot of fun and learning going on... There are better ways to explore a country in an out of the box kind of way. Get a guide book and wander around, hire a local to take you places, etc. Do NOT take a 600 mile ride through what is likely the most hellish part of this area (for the fun of the adventure!) on 25 green broke choppy little ponies in somebody elses tack! Ew!

I honestly thought this sounded like the worst idea ever before everyone reminded me of the horror of riding 600 miles in ill fitting tack. Holy crap! Maaaaybe something like this could be fun for an EXTREMELY experienced endurance rider on very well trained horses. MAYBE. But then you add in the fact that the course is set over probably some of the harshest areas of the country, and dying or becoming deathly ill become real concerns.

Yes, supposedly there are guides somewhere and vets somewhere or whatever, but that doesn't help much when you get bitten by some rabid wild dog or infected insect and you are 500 miles from something that even resembles a hospital (how long do you think it will take that one helicopter to come airlift you someplace...)

I do love the posts from the experienced endurance riders. This is about one of the worst ways I can think of spending $8K and also one of the worst ways I can think of to die... Ew. And then you add to the fact that these ponies have to participate in this unasked. Bleh.