Border Collie questions

[Mara]

I finally decided to post this here in hopes of getting some answers/suggestions. My husband's nephew just purchased a 7-week old Border Collie pup, and I am nearly biting my tongue in two to keep from causing major discord in the family.

This 26 year-old (married) has 2 cats already. The cats are neutered, because originally they were his mom's. They have not had any shots, at all, since going to live with Nephew about 2 years ago. He does not want to pay for them. (This is how mom got the cats originally - he brought them home, didn't want to pay for vet care. . .etc).

I don't see Nephew forking over money for shots, heartworm pills, or neutering. It isn't that he can't afford it - he's just cheap.

Nephew and his wife rent their home from her grandfather. Pets are not allowed. Both work outside the home. Oh - and the home does not have a fenced yard. He KNOWS these dogs need work and activity; he KNOWS there is a reason they are usually found on farms, and he is well aware that he is NOT set up to give this puppy's brain the kind of stimulation and challenges it needs. Irresponsible!

He's a nice kid, really, but does NOT need to have pets. He has always wanted a Border Collie because he is fascinated with all things Scottish. Well, geez, I want a horse but since I am wearing my Big Girl Panties, I know that I cannot afford to take care of one properly. (I'd GLADLY part with the money if I had it).

Okay, now that I have ranted, here are my questions. I am thinking that this puppy came from a backyard breeder - no reputable breeder or rescue group would sell a pup to someone without a background check and references. (My mom got a dog through Westie Rescue and she got vetted so thoroughly you'd have thought she'd applied for a job with the FBI!) He called, set up an appointment, took puppy home the same day.

Nephew swears it must be a really top breeder because the parents were champions. Well, geez, anyone can make that claim when the potential buyer is essentially clueless. It would also be my guess that a well bred Border Collie pup would fetch more than $500, which is what they paid.

I don't care about doggy bloodlines, no slam on those who do - dog shows are fun. My two are crosses of some sort. What I DO care about is any sort of genetic testing or selective breeding that should have been done to eliminate problems down the road. What should he be looking out for, health-wise?

And any suggestions on how I can maybe gently get him going in the right direction with this dog? Coming off as the harpy about it won't do anything but make me enemies within the family.

[TKR]

Well the victim here is the puppy. The situation is all wrong -- as you already know. Why would anyone pay that much for something they won't take proper care of -- vax, heartworm tx, etc.?

We had a female BC we rescued from a breeder who was going to kill her because of an undershot jaw. We had her from 3 1/2 weeks until she was 13 and had a stroke in addition to a myriad of other age-related problems. We then rescued another one from a misplaced situation. Two young guys had bought a puppy, both worked, had a garden type home and kept her crated through the day. She chewed up everything in their house and yard, no manners, not even properly housetrained. She was about a year old, not even spayed and they were delighted to hand her over. They had been kind to her and she was clean and affectionate, but totally the wrong dog for their situation.

This puppy will get bored, neurotic and unhappy and chew up things to pass the time and who know what else. My fear is that he might try to discipline her for something that is not her fault, making a sensitive, high activity dog more neurotic. There are ALOT of BC's in pounds or rescues because of being misplaced. In addition, they have only been accepted by the AKC and shown on the bench show circuit in the past 5-10 years. Their heritage is as a working dog and most BC lovers and breeders didn't want the acceptance or affiliation.

Perhaps if you offered him some literature regarding BC's and suggested that she might be very destructive because of her high energy needs... I don't know. The BC we took chewed up alot of stuff around here (and still does to some extent) even though we are on 42 acres and she has other dogs to play with and lots of room to run and attention. The only times they aren't going full tilt is when they are asleep or dead. It's a very unfair and unfortunate (and very selfish) situation. If he cares about the dog at all maybe you can appeal to his sense of fairness or what is truly best for the dog. He won't keep her, she'll drive him nuts, but by then she'll have bad habits. Such a terrible shame! They need space, constant activity and something to interest/occupy their quick minds and need to move -- they are definately for large, spacious areas. Good luck!
PennyG

[Mara]

Thanks. He KNOWS these things about Border Collies. I like the guy, I really do - he is just so immature about some things. And you are so right - the victim is the dog. The people in this scenario deserve every chewed shoe, pile of poop, and ruined sofa in their future. He's a softy and I don't believe he would ever, ever beat a dog or do something outrageous or abusive. He's the kind to make excuses for the dog's behavior.

I think he is going to go ahead and get the shots and heartworm preventative - enough people have yelled at him about that and given him well-deserved heat. I did tell him that he can search around for vets who do free or low-cost vaccination clinics if he's determined to pinch the penny.

What I am trying to steer him towards is training the dog to do what it's supposed to do. Since he's so fond of his Scottish ancestry (he plays bagpipes beautifully among other heritage-related activity), I think he'd get a charge out of working with some of the exhibition teams. I don't know how much of that goes on in the Gainesville, GA area, but I'm going to check around. Still, <sigh>, it won't do a bit of good if the dog is stuck indoors all day during the week.

[MunchkinsMom]

Perhaps you can show him some YouTube videos of BC's in agility events, or flyball, or some activities that perhaps your nephew might find interesting, and then maybe he might give it a try, and at least give the pup an outlet for all that energy and work ethic that the BC's are known for.

It is a shame that people do not do enough research before deciding to bring a dog home, as it is usually the poor dog that suffers for it.

[Mara]

Agility - excellent idea! Thanks for posting.

What ticks me off even more is that he did the research - or had it done for him - and got the puppy anyway. :mad:

[MunchkinsMom]

There might be some trainers in your area, I did a google search and got a few hits:

http://www.atlantadogtrainer.com/dogagility.html

The puppy and beginner training sessions are in Alpharetta.

And the Southeastern Dog Agility event is the end of this month at the Chicopee Woods Agricultural Center

http://www.hallcounty.org/events/details.asp?ID=2054

And it is free to spectators, I think you should have the nephew take the pup along, and talk to folks there to get more information.

[gloriginger]

Petsmarts Banfield vet has a really affordable program, especially for the irst year of puppyhood- it includes shots, spaying/neutering etc.

Here is a link to agility clubs, not sure where gainsville GA is, but there certainly is a fair share of clubs in GA.

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=clubs.results

I wouldn't be to concerned about the bloodlines breeding etc. $500 isn't exactly cheap---certainly there are more expensive BC, but I almost got a really nice BC from a working sheep farm for $400, and good friend bought a pup for $500. I also don't think with puppies they always ask for as much as a rescue org. does...when I got my pup, I showed up, paid for her and left, they didn't ask for any info.

He will very much need to give this dog a job. What is unfortunate is that if he is not commited to the proper training and excercise this dog wil need, and ends up giving it away in a year or two--the dog will have formed habits that others will have to live with.

Chewed shoes, etc. are just part of puppyhood, aren't they?

I hope for the dogs sake and for your nephews that this turns into a positive change in his life...and perhaps he will find a new hobby like agility, or fly ball, or disc dog - as I did with my dog.

I also hope you can project to him a more supportive and positive energy than you did on this thread. I get that you are upset, but maybe if you change your tune and stop calling him irresponsible etc. the power of positive thinking will help him to grow.

[Petstorejunkie]

Encourage him to join the local clubs for active breeds. agility, flyball, lure coursing, herding (sheep, geese, etc), disc dog
it's a great social outlet as well as a way to help the dog grow up to be happy and well adjusted. a bc without a job is a bc on death row.

[BoysNightOut]

I have a Border Collie/Cattle Dog mix. They are very high energy dogs. I also second the suggestion of Agility classes.

I live on 8.5 acres, and as soon as I get home from work to bedtime, I try and play with my dog outside as much as possible. We play fetch, frisbee, go hiking...anything to to give her an outlet for her energy.

I feel bad for this puppy though...it's a shame he didn't research the breed before getting one. He needs to understand what this type of dogs needs are, otherwise, you will have a bored/anxious dog.

Hopefully he does the right thing by him/her.

[Alagirl]

I guess some folks just underestimate what even a pup can do!

My half witted SIL bred Dachshunds for a spell, she had somewhere around 3 dogs and 5 bitches going, until she realized that they made more work for her, even in a pen all the time (don't get me started, she is not a mean person, just lacking in some aspects) I guess by the time Pupster is about 4 month the true colors will shine through. Besides, there are other Scottish things to be had, like a Scotty Terrier (not like they are any easier to deal with)

Oh well, he must learn the hard way! :lol:

[Mara]

Thanks for all of the responses. There is good advice here.

Nephew is not a bad guy - he has a huge heart, but is somewhat shortsighted regarding pets. I really think he believes he'll have the one exception to the trademark BC temperament and that his dog will be a couch potato from the word "go". Never, never do I believe he'll ever be abusive in any way. . . except that I do happen to believe that skimping on basic vet needs is abusive to a degree. Thankfully I believe he has managed to get this through his head.

Thanks to gloriginger for the Petsmart/Banfield suggestion. I will definitely mention this.

And I am already planning a family outing to the dog agility trials scheduled to take place in his neck of the woods in two weeks. (I love dog agility and have a dog who would be great at it, but he can't qualify for it since the AKC restricts events to purebreds. :mad: Simon is a rescued mixed breed.)

I really appreciate the input. As irritated as I am, I know that castigating Nephew won't do anyone any good and will just make me enemies. So I am trying to be a positive influence.

[EqTrainer]

well.. I have to say it.. my first BC was an absolute couch potato. He was as lazy as the day is long. And he never, ever did anything he wasn't supposed to do. He could have been raised by flying monkeys and he would have turned out just fine, people always tried to give me credit for his good behaviour but I can't take it. He was born trained and well-behaved.

Maybe your nephew will score, too. Let's hope so.

[HollysHobbies]

I have a friend who's BC came from a backyard breeder...sadly inbred. The pup is 100% deaf, but they are so smart, she has learned sign language. More seriously, she has exercised induced seizures of some sort-she can't cool her body down when it's over 75 degress or so...it's perplexed many vets.

My sister's border collie is just high energy--she's in a "tricks" class, an agility class, and a herding class. Everything in my sister's house is "baby proofed" for the pup :)

Great, smart dogs but too high energy for me.

I have a rescue aussie--they have great "off" switches--he also does agility, a little herding

Don't forget to test for the ivermectin (not what it's really called--sorry) gene (some herding dogs can't process ivermectin/can cause seizures)

[TKR]

There are BC herding events at the Scottish Festivals -- my brother-in-law used to attend and play the pipes and the drums. I rode my Thoroughbred in one a couple of times, too as a "demo" thing. Great fun! The problem with any of the training or activities is that this puppy will be alone and bored 90% of the time, which is unkind and a recipe for mischief and boredom.
PennyG

[county]

I've had BC dogs for 30 years never paid $500 for one always under that, breeder was very reputable and had chapion show dogs. Sounds like one of those deals you can give him your opinion then he can take it or leave it.

[gloriginger]

(I love dog agility and have a dog who would be great at it, but he can't qualify for it since the AKC restricts events to purebreds. :mad: Simon is a rescued mixed breed.)



Actually, that just changed, AKC does allow mixed breeds now- as well as all of the other venues CPE, USDAA, ASCA and TDAA.

I have an Aussie/cattle dog mix that I compete with, we are going to CPE nationals in 2 weeks.

[gloriginger]

I have a rescue aussie--they have great "off" switches

I hate blanket statments.

I know plenty of Aussies that do not have great Off switches, and plenty of BC that do.

It really depends on the individual dog, not on the breed as a whole. I also know bc that are mellow - but when the get in the agility ring they are off the wall. A breeder that many of my friends buy there BC from ranks them in energy level from mellow to peel them off the ceiling (no lie) - the latter are only sold to very experienced handlers.

[ReSomething]

well.. I have to say it.. my first BC was an absolute couch potato. He was as lazy as the day is long. And he never, ever did anything he wasn't supposed to do. He could have been raised by flying monkeys and he would have turned out just fine, people always tried to give me credit for his good behaviour but I can't take it. He was born trained and well-behaved.

Maybe your nephew will score, too. Let's hope so.

Ditto, for the dog's sake. Our neighbors had a BC bitch, she was kept busy by three kids but when the house was quiet durig school she handled being alone just fine.

[Alagirl]

Actually, that just changed, AKC does allow mixed breeds now- as well as all of the other venues CPE, USDAA, ASCA and TDAA.

I have an Aussie/cattle dog mix that I compete with, we are going to CPE nationals in 2 weeks.

Well, The AKC isn't the end all to anything dog, lots of breed registries are not included (and fight tooth and nail to keep it that way,) so you can find an activity for your dog.

[Blugal]

I couldn't agree more that he needs to consider the dog's needs regarding a job and boredom. My Mum has a BC that she got from the local SPCA - they called her begging her to take this dog. The poor things was 9 months old and had already had 3 owners!!!! Just ignorant people who didn't know better or didn't think it through. Without any kind of outlet for her energy, no discipline, no focus for the pup, and the constant change of ownership, she was quite ditzy. Very difficult to train as she basically wasn't sure WHO was in charge (or whether it would stay that way). 5 years later she is much better, but what a way to start; she is lucky to have found a home, I think.

However our family's had some wonderful mellow BCs in the past. Our family dog while I was growing up was one of the "best dogs ever" - $50 from a local farmer with a great reputation for his breeding of both working and pet BCs. She was allowed into dog obedience classes early - she needed a job and learned so quickly that it wasn't stressful - and ended up the star of the class. That early training stood her in good stead throughout her life. (Out hacking we could yell "Over to the side! Down!" and she'd go to the side of the road and lie down while cars went by.)

[Mara]

Well, The AKC isn't the end all to anything dog, lots of breed registries are not included (and fight tooth and nail to keep it that way,) so you can find an activity for your dog.


I did NOT know the rules had changed! Simon's mostly Australian Cattle dog, with an extra dose of something shepherd-y in him. Long, long legs. I started taking him through some agility exercises/equipment at the dog park mainly to desensitize his fear of strange objects. His "brother", Lance, is actually a bit more nimble, but does not care one bit about "all that stuff". (He thinks the tunnel is a good place for a nap).

Possibly this could be a good family activity. Hmmmm. I do believe getting Nephew and Puppy involved early will be good for both of them. It will open Nephew's eyes, possibly, and get Puppy some early socialization opportunities.

Wow, the things to be learned on a horse forum!

[gloriginger]

Yup they did

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

Although the general consencus around here is that it is simply a way for the AKC to attempt to make more money, while treating mixes like 2nd class citzens. I personally will not show in AKC, not because of the weird rules (mixes compete at end of class etc) but because I really like USDAA - more variety of classes etc.

But you definitely do not have to show in AKC to do agility. looks like there is a fair amount of NADAC in GA.

Agilityevents.net - check out events in your area.

[bdj]

The AKC ruling that allows mixed breeds to play doesn't take full effect until next April. Why bother waiting for them when there are other clubs that would love to have you come play? Definitely check out NADAC (www.nadac.com) agility, Mara! It allows mixed breeds, has a bigger variety of classes than AKC and is a TON of fun.
I don't have anything against AKC, really - my Cardi girl will be making her AKC debut in a couple of weeks - but NADAC is just so much fun! And the wider variety of classes is awesome - my big dog is 10, and just doesn't handle a dogwalk anymore - but that's OK, because in NADAC, he can do the Tunnelers class - no jumps, no weaves, no contacts, just tunnels! It really is great!

Oh, and re: the Border Collie puppy? While I do think that agility would be a great job for the pup in the future, please be careful to advise Nephew that Puppy really should be cleared by a vet before he starts agility training with Puppy-dear. Jumping and contacts are tough on a dog's joints, and while Puppy's mind might be willing, her body won't be physically ready for that kind of stress till she's done growing - much like a young horse. In the meantime, though, basic obedience (it doesn't have to be competition style) would be wonderful preparation for the future agility athlete!

[Bluey]

Even if you start training now, it will be a while before you are ready to show, so why not start with your local performance dog club now and then, once you are ready to show, you will have learned what all is available in your area?

Here, for hundreds of miles around, all we have is AKC, so our club is registered thru them and we are thankful to have them.
Most here show AKC registered dogs or dogs of unknown ancestry, but that look like any one AKC dog breed, registered as ILP, or the new such designation.
For many years now, you can show those not AKC registered dogs, I had some of those, that is not new, but there are new programs added to that first one for other than AKC registered dogs.
One of our two yearly agility shows is coming up, three days on Memorial Day.:cool:

[Cielo Azure]

A reputable herding dog breeder will most definitely sell to a 20 something year old. Many herding dog breeders come from the old school and believe that a dog is a dog and meant for work (whether that be a pet, herding, guarding, or agility), it isn't their job to assess the dog's new owners. They don't believe in PETA or HSUS or goverment, and they are often farmers. As in animals are livestock, and dogs are another form of animal enterprise. Kind of like a lot of horse breeders. They believe that dogs are dogs (not humans), they believe that if they screened their prospective puppy owners, those most suitable (farmers) wouldn't pass the screenings. Border collies are not Westies and the breeders of such dogs tend to be more libertarian in nature than your urban/suburban dog owner.

A twenty something year old will either rise to the occassion or not. That is plenty adult enough to decide whether and what dog to own. Lots of people successfully keep border collies in apartments, with full time jobs, etc. It depends on their priorties. Maybe his significant other would really like a child and this is a way to ease the urge before they are financially ready. Being judgmental on your part, and posting on an Internet board (where people can be traced), it that helping? It seems like another form of gossiping to me. Sometimes we are most judgmental of our own family. Are you speaking about this with other family members? If you are, how is that helping?

So many places to in GA to find herding venures. Border collie assocations, ABHA, ASCA and many, many other groups are there. But training in herding doesn't start at puppyhood. First is obedience, puppy training, and much, much later, herding. GA does have good dog parks, dog schools, etc.

Lighten up! My 24 year old son and his girlfriend have an Aussie. It is the light of their life and has made it so the cravings for a child are diluted until they can afford it. I am thankful that I made the right decision and gave them a puppy when they asked for one after my last litter. It was one of the best decisions I could have made. Their dog couldn't be more loved, cared for or trained (It is the best parenting education I could have given them). At one year's old, that Aussie is one special girl and I am proud that new family and what they have acomplished.

Give him a chance to prove himself, he might surprise you.

[citydog]

Some good advice here.

I've worked with BC rescue for some years, and sadly this type of situation (generally nice person gets pup from breeder who doesn't care where the pup ends up, realizes somewhere between 6 and 12 months that dog is just too much dog and sends dog to rescue--if the dog is lucky) accounts for a really high percentage of the dogs we get. Look into what breed rescues are in your area and keep those numbers handy. ;)

Some random thoughts:

The price of the dog just means someone was wiling to pay it. It is not an indicator of quality.

Seven weeks is too young to be taken from the litter. Puppies learn a LOT of their bite inhibition from their littermates between 6-8 weeks. If they don't learn it in the litter, the humans they end up with have to teach them (when puppy chomps down with those little needle teeth, yelp and ignore it--game stops!--for a minute or two), and endeavor to arrange for playtime with other pups of a similar age or saintly older dogs who are good at teaching puppies. You'll find a lot of better breeders will keep pups until 10 weeks so they can continue to learn doggie skills with their litter and so that the breeder can ensure the pups have carefully orchestrated positive experiences during the fear/imprint period that occurs between 8-10 weeks.

He's got his work cut out for him, and you're kind to try to help. I dearly hope he has one of those rare freaks of the Border Collie world (easy going, on-reactive couch potato). If you can find him a good puppy-K class (may gift it?) that would go a loooooong way toward helping this pup have a shot at an OK life with him.

And I think you might be able to use his Scottish pride thing to your advantage: take him to agility or herding or frisbee dog events where BCs *excel* (or forward some awesome YouTube videos to him). Let him see what a BC can do when someone invests time in training and working and playing with it (all one and the same, hopefully :) ). Our group routinely has a table at many of the "Highland" festivals, so maybe he can talk to similar folks about BC stuff, get pointed to training groups or herding clinics or whatever.

Good luck to you, your nephew, and especially the wee tyke.

[citydog]

A reputable herding dog breeder will most definitely sell to a 20 something year old.

Yes. There are breeders who crank out litters from OK working stock who care only about the profit they can make on any leftover puppies. I'd hardly call that "reputable", but perhaps we have different definitions of that. You'll find that those with superior working stock have a waiting list for pups, and absolutely do care that the dogs go to a *working* (whether farm or trial) home.

They believe that dogs are dogs (not humans), they believe that if they screened their prospective puppy owners, those most suitable (farmers) wouldn't pass the screenings.

Oh bulls**t. They might have different ideas of an ideal home (i.e. working stock all day and sleeping in the barn is preferable than being a soft, pampered housepet) but if they care about anything more than the money, they will screen for those things. There are plenty of breeders of working/trial dogs that won't sell to sport homes because they want to keep the BC--and their particular bloodlines--as pure working dogs.

In the hundreds of dogs that we've dealt with we see many dogs from the same breeders (some fairly far flung). Typically, they have some sheep and a couple of dogs sometimes from decent bloodlines that they work, and then they crank out litter after litter of puppie$. They don't screen, they don't care, they aren't reputable. We almost never see dogs directly from reputable breeders--yes, many of them farmers with a *very* shrewd eye for business and the bottom line, but that doesn't mean they don't care where their dogs end up or that they don't screen their buyers.

A twenty something year old will either rise to the occassion or not. And when they don't the dog pays.

Maybe his significant other would really like a child and this is a way to ease the urge before they are financially ready.

Yeah, we get a ton of those baby-tester dogs too. "No time due to new baby." Or untrained dogs who surprise! surprise! started showing some herding instinct when the kid started to toddle.

Being judgmental

Judgmental? I think more realistic and pro-active.

Give him a chance to prove himself, he might surprise you.

True. There are some gems out there. :) I have certainly placed dogs with twenty-somethings (and was a twenty-something renter myself that a rescue believed in and for that I am forever grateful!), and when they work out they are often some of the best homes for a dog. I'm glad the Aussie of your breeding is such a good fit with your son, but you probably knew a little bit about your son before you placed the dog. :winkgrin: Very different than just selling to a random buyer (of any age) that shows up with the cash.

I applaud the OP for trying to get some ideas. This is a living breathing critter we're talking about not a home gym or something that was a perhaps goofy, misguided purchase but that isn't going to hurt anyone by being ignored and left to gather dust in a corner and then tossed in the trash. A "wait and see" approach could be disastrous for the dog, whereas a little venting (better on here than to unproductively to the nephew) and looking for advice and ideas could prove quite helpful to the pup and the nephew in the long run. :yes:

[Horseymama]

We have a wonderful BC. We also have 40 acres. She is the smartest, sweetest, most energetic dog I have ever owned. She follows our ranch foreman around all day because he is driving the feed vehicle, tractor, moving horses, etc., and she loves to work and always keep moving. It took some training at the beginning to get her to not herd the horses, although she will herd children on bikes, our Jack Russells, and the chickens. (She tries with the cat, but kitty no likey ;))

You might show your nephew this thread. Does he realize how much energy these dogs can have? Our BC can be quite neurotic. When she comes in the house, she runs right to the master bathroom, picks out the same tile on the bathroom floor, and barks and scratches at it for hours! Left to her own devices, she would never stop with this game! It's really quite funny, although not in the middle of the night!

We love her, but to put in in perspective, she is constantly running around 40 acres 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week. That's a lot of energy in one dog!

Oh, and I forgot to mention, she is three-legged! She was an insane tire-biter as a puppy and the neighbor accidently ran her over. Luckily all she lost was a leg. She is still the fastest dog on the farm!

[Mara]

Nephew does know that Border Collies are hardwired to work and tend to be bored and unhappy when they can't - he's been told that by countless people including the folks who brought the dogs for the herding demonstration at the Highland Games. He has, for whatever reason, chosen to get a pup anyway.

He has a poor track record as far as taking care of the pets he's got, as the unvaccinated cats demonstrate.

But I also love the guy, and his heart is in the right place, even if his head isn't. I also know that behaving like a know-it-all, or being a bee-yatch and yelling about it will not help the parties involved. As citydog said, I HAD to vent, though! COTH got the worst of it - my apologies!

My goal is to help him find a way to make the BC-owner relationship as pleasant and rewarding as possible for both the dog and the nephew. I don't WANT to see him get frustrated and turn the dog in to a rescue org. I want him to have a great family relationship with Pup. I want Pup happy and healthy and vaccinated and neutered and getting his teeth cleaned regularly and all that good stuff. I want Nephew and Nephew's Wife to enjoy spending time with Pup and doing cool stuff with him (isn't that a big part of having a dog?).

Now, he hasn't specifically asked for help, so I need to be sort of conversational and relaxed about approaching the topic of "What Are Your Plans For Pup". I am pondering this. . .he's very easygoing, so I don't think I'd be in much danger of offending him by making suggestions.

You guys are great - there have been so many good suggestions here and I'm delighted with the responses. I am not a pushy broad by any means; in fact I tend to be a little timid. My hackles can come up big-time with regards to animals, though - especially dogs and horses.

I'm not trying to put a stop to the thread by any means - all ideas/input are welcome. But I do want to say a big "thanks" to everyone who has given advice so far. :cool:

[Alagirl]

Even if you start training now, it will be a while before you are ready to show, so why not start with your local performance dog club now and then, once you are ready to show, you will have learned what all is available in your area?

Here, for hundreds of miles around, all we have is AKC, so our club is registered thru them and we are thankful to have them.
Most here show AKC registered dogs or dogs of unknown ancestry, but that look like any one AKC dog breed, registered as ILP, or the new such designation.
For many years now, you can show those not AKC registered dogs, I had some of those, that is not new, but there are new programs added to that first one for other than AKC registered dogs.
One of our two yearly agility shows is coming up, three days on Memorial Day.:cool:

The AKC had the provission for altered animals who looked the breed standard of an AKC breed to be registered for performance competition only for several years now. You have to state to them why you think Pupster is breed XYZ to them, not sure how in depth that is. Don't seem to matter much since most you get is a pretty ribbon and some bragging rights. ;)

[Bluey]

The AKC had the provission for altered animals who looked the breed standard of an AKC breed to be registered for performance competition only for several years now. You have to state to them why you think Pupster is breed XYZ to them, not sure how in depth that is. Don't seem to matter much since most you get is a pretty ribbon and some bragging rights. ;)

Evidently they were not very particular, because there were some odd looking dogs showing at our shows.;)

Oh, but you do get so much more out of participating in dog sports, such as the training time, that gives you and your dog something to do together and with other people and dogs likely minded.
Dog clubs and classes and putting on shows or going to shows is kind of a loosely organized social event, where you can be as friendly or solitary as you want and still be part of the group effort as you and your dog are doing your best individually.
Not only that, agility took off because practically all dogs just love it and who doesn't want to do something your dog loves?:cool:

Every dog in our club starts whining as we turn into the place we train and beginners classes start with how to teach your dog not to pull on the lead to get to the gate and still keep that enthusiasm, just a little bit better under control.:D

[LSM1212]

*sigh* I have 3 BC's. They are numbers 4,5,6. Out of the 6 I've owned... I only got 2 from a breeder as a pup. All the rest were rescues or re-home situations... and all but 1 had papers. Because of people not knowing what they are truly getting into when purchasing or aquiring a BC.

They take work. Mental and Physical.

I used to show mine (Conformation, Obedience, Agility, Herding... AKC and UKC) but they are retired now.

Now they are walked everyday. And I have a decent sized backyard so we play ball out there weather permitting or we play inside EVERYDAY!

I also still do "drills" with them at home. You have to work them mentally and physically to keep them happy.

I love mine dearly... but have been in the breed for about 15 years now.

Basic Obedience training is a MUST. Please have your nephew sign his pup up for puppy classes for socialization and then regular beginner classes when the pup comes of age.

My crew, if interested: http://kentuckyrider.com/Gallery/My-Dogs

My hubby and I don't have 2 legged children. So we have time for the dogs. I have always discouraged families w/ small children against getting a BC as a family dog. Mine are great w/ children but not all are (nipping at legs/heals).

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Here's what you do.

Click on this link to the upcoming sheedog trials for the US Border Collie Handlers Association (USBCHA) http://www.usbcha.com/upcomingtrials.htm

Find one near you and send Nephew (or go with:) ). You might want to leave pup at home, or take a crate where you can stash pup away from the action in case he gets all excited and wants to cheerlead (aka barkbarkbark incessantly:)).

There's a good chance Nephew will be stunned and amazed and want to start learning to work his pup on stock. Then your problems are solved.:cool:

ETA: The handlers are a wealth of information and happy to talk sheepdogs. As you'd do at a horse show, don't try to talk to someone just before their run - but handlers who have a break or who are finished for the day are usually happy to hook you up with their sheepie connections.

[chestnutmarebeware]

Another option to manage the dog's energy level is teaching him to run alongside a bicycle.

I have an ACD I took in after the owners dropped him at my vet to be euthanized because they lived in a small apartment and he was continually bouncing off the walls (WHAT a SURPRISE!).

Anyway, even with goose herding, frisbee, tennis ball fetch, and lots of walks, Blue had energy to spare. So I bought a $5 granny bike at a yard sale. It took him about 30 feet to figure things out, and now I can pedal flat out for 20 or 30 minutes and bring him back with his tongue dragging the floor! Best $5 I ever spent. :lol:

[Mara]

I've sent him the link to the USBCHA; there is nothing anywhere nearby for a few months, probably because the SOuthern summer heat is miserable. But the puppy is only 8 weeks old now!

And we are all going to the agility trials this weekend! Nephew/Nephew's Wife, me & my husband, and, of course, dogs. :)

[vacation1]

Agility is extremely fun, but you might want to be careful with getting nephew hooked when the puppy's still a baby. There are limits to what they can do while they're still growing, and nephew doesn't sound like the patient sort. If at all possible, get him involved in taking dog to classes of any sort - agility, obedience, rally, etc. - because of the socialization factor for the dog. It is very easy to accidentally create a somewhat shy dog when you work full-time and the dog really doesn't get off the property much.

What I DO care about is any sort of genetic testing or selective breeding that should have been done to eliminate problems down the road. What should he be looking out for, health-wise?

There's collie sensitivity to iverectimin (spelling, I know) - but if it's pulling teeth to get him to vet the dog in the first place, you might not want to mention this issue. Better that small risk than the larger one of turning him off vet work altogether.

[Bluey]

Agility is extremely fun, but you might want to be careful with getting nephew hooked when the puppy's still a baby. There are limits to what they can do while they're still growing, and nephew doesn't sound like the patient sort. If at all possible, get him involved in taking dog to classes of any sort - agility, obedience, rally, etc. - because of the socialization factor for the dog. It is very easy to accidentally create a somewhat shy dog when you work full-time and the dog really doesn't get off the property much.



.


Any dog agility class will mention time and again and again and again about not jumping too much or puppies at all and the why's.
If anything, I think that people are scared to do much on their own because of it, which is good, really, until they are not novices at it any more.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Mara - also send your nephew the link to the Border Collie Boards - http://www.bordercollie.org
Some of the top handlers in the country are on this one - many of them in the southeast US. There are a few serious sheep farmers, too - as well as fair amount of pet BC people and agility people. You might warn him that AKC is a four-letter word over there, though.:lol:

If Nephew's into all things Scottish, he might want to see where the nearest Jack Knox clinic is and go audit. (I think the audit fees for the last one I attended was maybe $25, so not expensive.) Jack's an amazing dog handler and hilarious to hang out with - plus you get to listen to that great accent for two or three days.:cool:

[gloriginger]

Any dog agility class will mention time and again and again and again about not jumping too much or puppies at all and the why's.
If anything, I think that people are scared to do much on their own because of it, which is good, really, until they are not novices at it any more.

Agreed, and there is a lot of foundation work that can be done with poles on the ground, tunnels and tippy boards, that does not stress the dog's joints, but helps to pattern the brain and build the confidence needed for a successful competition career. Most clubs in my area have Puppy classes- the work on the above, and socialization, organized play etc.

[spookhorse]

I happen to have one of those laid back BCs, his name is Fred :D Fred really is really happy with his job being to stick with me 24/7 no matter what I am doing. He just sleeps when I'm on the computer or not home and he can't go with me.

Found Fred at the local Humane Society 3 years ago and it was love at first sight. Somehow I just knew it would work out with him despite my not having a typical BC home and not having been much of a dog person in my life... I'd only owned a couple of dogs before, never done any major training other than the basics, and I also live in a town house. Of course I knew that Fred would go to the barn with me everyday, Lex has several good dog parks, and I planned on obedience classes so I had a plan at least.

After some crate training for bad habits like trash digging and constant reaffirmation that he was supposed to stay with me instead of running off (he had come into the HS as a stray), we started with a basic obedience class. That really helped Fred and I learn to work together. Getting into that class changed our lives as the instructor ended up roping me and Fred into Search & Rescue. Honestly, SAR was really more for me than for Fred as I've always wanted to get into something like that. It just happens that my group is heavy into working with dogs and Fred does what I do ;)

Fred should test into being able to go into the field this year. He's really taken off this spring and is as far along or more as younger dogs who started as pups and 6 months or more earlier than him. We have also done some PR work with our group, we had a booth at Rolex this year and Fred was quite the ambassador! Fred and I made an appearance at the Bluegrass Stock Dog Trials last weekend and told people about what BCs can do other than stockwork and agility. We are also scheduled to go to an elementary school career day next week. Others member of my team will probably do the talking, but Fred will be there for the kids to love on, he absolutely eats that sort of thing up :lol:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n174/spookhorse01/Pets/IMG_0729.jpg

Just something else to think about doing with a BC besides the usual stockwork or agility that comes to mind :yes:

[Alagirl]

hehehe, gotta love them pups when they are all business "Ok, if that's what you want to do, I'm in'

Mine was more like 'I am coming along, but you do the work, you hear!' :lol:

[Horsegal984]

Give him this link.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3qvJgY9XQI

Show him just how good BC's are at what they do best, and see if it gives him a little motivation to make his dog that good too! Plus it's just a kick a$$ video lol.

I have 2 cattle dog/ german shep. crosses and they are great dogs. But they work. They go to the barn, they do some agility, some obedience, and we make plenty of time for play. My male is only a year old and he's always ready to go. We looked at a BC when we were getting our first one, and went with the cattle dog because while we wanted a high energy and good barn working dog we had real reservations about if we could meet the needs of a BC. And I'm glad we made the choice we did, because I couldn't live with knowing that my dog was being naughty and destructive because I wasn't living up to their standards.

Katherine
Vet Tech