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DieBlaueReiterin
May. 17, 2009, 09:23 PM
i board at a hack-type barn where there is a large mix of people, who ride several different disciplines but they do have a hunter trainer who is good for beginners but not for an experienced jumper rider. recently they raised their ring fee to $20 and i'm a little annoyed about that. the rings are not that big and we don't have a full course of jumps.

i'm on the prowl for a new trainer and i think having to pay a $20 ring fee on top of board for 2 horses is outrageous, but maybe i am out of touch. what do you all pay for your ring fees where you ride?

dghunter
May. 17, 2009, 09:41 PM
Do you mean a ring fee for bringing in an outside trainer? If so we pay $5 per lesson, this helps cover some extra insurance that BO has.

When we trailer to trainer's farm I believe we pay a $15 ring fee.

IsolaBella09
May. 17, 2009, 09:54 PM
When we trailer to barns to use their indoor we pay $20 at one place (trainer is good friends with the owners) and $25 at another place. The $20 barn is if we are just hacking around, and the $25 is if we need to lesson with jumps.

DieBlaueReiterin
May. 17, 2009, 10:18 PM
sorry-should have been more specific. this would be a fee paid to my barn owners to have an outside trainer come in and give me a lesson in a ring which a) i've already paid for the use of and b) does not even have a full course of jumps. (can you tell i'm bitter? :P)

dghunter
May. 17, 2009, 10:20 PM
sorry-should have been more specific. this would be a fee paid to my barn owners to have an outside trainer come in and give me a lesson in a ring which a) i've already paid for the use of and b) does not even have a full course of jumps. (can you tell i'm bitter? :P)

This is what we pay the $5 for. BO told us that she carries extra insurance so that outside trainers can come in and are covered (or something to that extent, it's been awhile since I thought about it :lol:). Maybe your barn has something like this?

gg4918
May. 17, 2009, 10:22 PM
I always assumed that a ring fee was included in the board, its not your fault that they dont have a trainer for your level, and considering how high board fees already are....
Especially since there isnt a full course set up. I can see how actually having a full course would warrant a ring fee (takes up space and takes time to put up and take down) but not having a full course...not fair in my opinion.

Hunter Mom
May. 17, 2009, 10:24 PM
My barn is actually a club, so all members can use the arenas any time. We have a western and a h/j trainer, and there is no additional fee for members doing lessons. Non-members pay a $10 fee per lesson. We don't have outside trainers come, unless it is for a clinic.

mvp
May. 17, 2009, 10:55 PM
The ring fee is usually charged for horses not boarded there. I think your lesson at home should be covered.

Your trainer, of course, should carry his or her own insurance. The BO does too, or should. Them's the brakes.

horselesswonder
May. 18, 2009, 12:02 AM
It is fairly standard, regardless of paying a board fee, to pay extra to bring in an outside trainer. Frankly, I would consider myself fortunate that is permitted at all when there is already a trainer on staff (regardless of your opinion of that trainer). From the facility owner's standpoint, it is really your trainer paying for the privilege of being permitted to come in and make money using facilities that the trainer has no part in maintaining/funding. Typically the trainer would charge extra to you and pass that back to the facility owner. I would expect the extra fee to be approx. $25.

MintHillFarm
May. 18, 2009, 10:03 AM
It is fairly standard, regardless of paying a board fee, to pay extra to bring in an outside trainer. Frankly, I would consider myself fortunate that is permitted at all when there is already a trainer on staff (regardless of your opinion of that trainer). From the facility owner's standpoint, it is really your trainer paying for the privilege of being permitted to come in and make money using facilities that the trainer has no part in maintaining/funding. Typically the trainer would charge extra to you and pass that back to the facility owner. I would expect the extra fee to be approx. $25.


Makes sense to me; especially if there is already a trainer there. The fee covers some electricity if the indoor is needed at night; use of the jumps and footing care and general ring time. I think that amount is very fair.

DieBlaueReiterin
May. 18, 2009, 12:19 PM
ok, maybe i am overreacting then, if this is standard. i would be the only person using this trainer-the dressage ppl there use the dressage woman, most ppl don't take lessons, and the rest ride with the beginner lady. i just didn't think it was fair that i should have to pay to take a lesson in my own ring but if this is common practice then i will just shut my trap and spend the the extra $80/mo.

DieBlaueReiterin
May. 18, 2009, 12:22 PM
From the facility owner's standpoint, it is really your trainer paying for the privilege of being permitted to come in and make money using facilities that the trainer has no part in maintaining/funding.

just reread this and have to ask...isn't my board fee being used to pay for the upkeep of the facilities? isn't that why i pay board? so basically i am being charged use of the ring twice. after all, if this trainer i want to bring in wasn't standing there yelling at me i'd be riding in the ring on my own, since the use of the ring is included in my board...

(or really, should i just shut up now? :cool:)

Lucassb
May. 18, 2009, 12:32 PM
just reread this and have to ask...isn't my board fee being used to pay for the upkeep of the facilities? isn't that why i pay board? so basically i am being charged use of the ring twice. after all, if this trainer i want to bring in wasn't standing there yelling at me i'd be riding in the ring on my own, since the use of the ring is included in my board...

(or really, should i just shut up now? :cool:)

Ring fees to cover outside trainers are pretty standard, if hard to swallow when you are already "paying for the use of the facilities." (Remember that most in house trainers are also kicking back a portion of the lesson fees to the BO... but that cost is probably already built into the lesson charge.)

Essentially the fee is to compensate the barn owner for providing that instructor with the venue (ring, footing) and equipment (jumps etc) that the instructor is using to generate income (the lesson fee.) It is charged to the outside trainer (who is renting all that stuff from the barn owner, in a way) not to the client (who is already paying board) although from a practical perspective, the cost is almost always passed on to that client.

Many barms will not allow outside trainers at all, so from that standpoint you might not want to rock the boat too much, if you want to stay there and continue having the opportunity to have the trainer of your choice come in and use the facilities.

mrsbradbury
May. 18, 2009, 12:40 PM
Have you talked to the BO about this in more depth, and on a professional level? talk to them about the lack of equipment, quibbling about the arena size is a moot point, they're probabaly aware that they're small; and it's not an easy fix. Are they closing the ring for you? or are you sharing? are you using lights? are you setting and taking down your own jumps?

In my insurance policy, outisde trainers are excluded. I am the only trainer permitted to teach clients on my facility. Further, in order to add trainers, I have to provide the company with the names, and the other trainers have to provide proof of their own insurance. Furthermore, I am insured to teach off-site, and carry a specific additional coverage for that.

Not that their policy is wholly your business, but in some regards it is.

I feel that to pay an additional fee in excess of 10-15 dollars to take a lesson where you board is a bit high. (But, I don't even offer the option.) Can you ship in to the trainer instead?

Have you ridden with the "beginner trainer"?; maybe they have more knowledge then you are giving them credit for.

For example: I have a lady who comes and helps me personally (no clients, just me); who no longer does a bunch of teaching at a high level; and has spent the last 6 years teaching an up /down program at another stable, but is very very knowledgable.

DieBlaueReiterin
May. 18, 2009, 01:03 PM
i really appreciate all the input you guys are giving me so so much. :) to answer some questions: yes, the outside trainer has to show proof of their own insurance; the BOs pay their trainer's insurance, so they get half her lesson fee (which coincidentally works out to $20 for a private lesson, so basically they are getting the same fee to cover her on their insurance and let her use their lesson horses as i would be paying to use my own horse and my trainer's insurance).

i will definitely talk to them, i just wanted to get some ouside perspective before i brought it up. it seems that some people think it's reasonable and some don't so maybe it depends on where you live or the type of facility or whatnot. but i really appreciate replies to my posts so thank you and keep them coming :)

Pirateer
May. 18, 2009, 01:05 PM
My barn has a $20 ring fee for haul ins only. If you boarded but wanted to use an outside trainer I don't believe there is a charge, but obv. need to provide proper insurance etc.

MR
May. 18, 2009, 01:20 PM
I'm at a large boarding barn with a mix of disciplines (sounds a lot like yours). I bring in my h/j trainer once a month and there are usually 5-6 riders who lesson with her when she comes.

There is no fee charged by the barn to my trainer to teach us (she just has to have updated insurance coverage for the facility on-file). However, we pay $5 per rider to the barn to "close" the arena (meaning that no other boarders can ride in the ring during our lessons).

During the winter, it makes tons of sense (since we close the only indoor, which keeps other boarders from being able to ride). In the summer, it's a bit "silly" (since we ride outside, and there is still the indoor and another smaller outdoor for boarders to use), but I figure it helps "keep the peace".

We've gotten that $ back (in a way) as the barn gave us a huge chunk of $ to build new jumps. So, in the end, the $5 per rider really went towards new jumps and maintaining the facility. Fine by me.

FYI - I think the $5 is absolutely reasonable. Comes out to about $25-30 per clinic.

DieBlaueReiterin
May. 18, 2009, 01:54 PM
I'm at a large boarding barn with a mix of disciplines (sounds a lot like yours). I bring in my h/j trainer once a month and there are usually 5-6 riders who lesson with her when she comes.

There is no fee charged by the barn to my trainer to teach us (she just has to have updated insurance coverage for the facility on-file). However, we pay $5 per rider to the barn to "close" the arena (meaning that no other boarders can ride in the ring during our lessons).

During the winter, it makes tons of sense (since we close the only indoor, which keeps other boarders from being able to ride). In the summer, it's a bit "silly" (since we ride outside, and there is still the indoor and another smaller outdoor for boarders to use), but I figure it helps "keep the peace".

We've gotten that $ back (in a way) as the barn gave us a huge chunk of $ to build new jumps. So, in the end, the $5 per rider really went towards new jumps and maintaining the facility. Fine by me.

FYI - I think the $5 is absolutely reasonable. Comes out to about $25-30 per clinic.

see to me this sounds reasonable. a) it's not a huge cost and b) you're closing the ring. i would not be closing the ring by any stretch of the imagination-i scheduled my lessons around hers, and even then boarders still could (and did) use the rings during my lessons.

as for the person who asked me about lessoning with the barn trainer-i took a few a couple yrs ago and even then she was not helpful at all. plus the fact that she's only ever done hunters/eq and i ride jumpers.