Be careful: shelter dogs

[RedTahoe]

I love shelter dogs, and I don't mind helping people out with them, but lately, our Craigslist has been plagued with people asking for others to help them get a dog.

(ETA) Legitimate rescue person posted an ad asking about helping with transport. When I replied to her, she passed along the "one such person's" (herein referred to as "clist") contact info.

One such person showed interest in a purebred German Shepherd and a purebred Labrador Retriever (both are intact - not spayed/neutered). Their request stated they "couldn't get them" but wanted someone else to go down there, fill out the paperwork, pay for the dog, and bring it to them. They said they would reimburse the adoption fee.

I offered assistance to the person merely saying, "if someone can bring the dog to 75/Fulton or Cobb County, I would bring the dog to Canton, Georgia."

The person replied that they needed the person to do the adoption paperwork, etc. for the dog.

I told them they could contact the shelter and fax the shelter down a signed adoption agreement for the dog, but that I would not do that without knowing what type of home the dog was going to. Needless to say, I received a vulgar and rude e-mail in response.

If you are offering assistance to someone regarding the "pulling" of shelter dogs.....

1.) Ask questions about the person (especially if it's an intact, purebred dog)
2.) Make the person interested in the dog fill out required adoption paperwork and fax to the shelter.
3.) Before pick up, call the shelter to make sure that the person has faxed a signed document adopting the dog.

If someone was to go down there, adopt the dog, and bring it to someone, YOUR name is on the adoption paperwork. If the county decides to pursue an inquiry into the spaying/neutering of the dog, then it is still YOUR responsibility that the dog be spayed/neutered. If there is a complaint on that dog, it is still YOUR responsibility.

This particular person was fishy, and I can only venture to guess that they'd throw some fake registry papers on it, and use it for breeding without having a "paper trail" on where the dog came from.

[Bluey]

There are some questionable dog registries out there, started by the puppy mill industry, something that many people are not aware of when they buy a "registered puppy".

I didn't know any reputable shelter will let an animal go without being altered first.
Here, you sign the adoption papers, the dog is sent to the vet by us and the owner can get it, after the operation, at the vet.
There are exceptions if you prefer your vet do it, then we take it to your vet, but you will have to pay for it.

First red flag, placing entire dogs is illogical, as they may add to the problems you are trying to solve.
Anyone not placing a dog already altered is not reputable, by definition.

[citydog]

Good advice.

It's appalling how saving dogs from (mostly southern) shelters is becoming an exploitive business for some, whether grabbing intact purebreds for breeding or shipping truckloads (literally) of sick, stressed, intact puppies north and "adopting" (i.e. *selling*) them for several hundred dollars to whomever shows up in the parking lot that night with the cash. No checking of homes or temperament or suitability. Then the local rescues are left having to deal with the failed placements--and there are tons of them--while the "rescue truck" people end up with a tidy sum.

(Maybe you could change your subject line, though? I thought it was going to be a story of a bad experience adopting a shelter dog. Maybe "Be careful when helping others adopt shelter dogs" or something? )

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

I didn't know any reputable shelter will let an animal go without being altered first.

Some will if the dog is going to a rescue. But our BC rescue normally let the shelter's vet do it because it's generally cheaper.

Some shelters, oddly, will not work with rescues. They will only adopt to private individuals. That's the only non-nefarious reason why someone might need another person to fill out the paperwork. And I personally would never ask someone to do it - there are plenty of dogs who need help that don't have anyone throwing up roadblocks.

I can think of lots of heinous reasons why a person would need someone else to fill out paperwork. Hoarders, dealers in research dogs, BYB's, dog abusers, etc. all spring to mind.

[citydog]

I didn't know any reputable shelter will let an animal go without being altered first.

[...]

First red flag, placing entire dogs is illogical, as they may add to the problems you are trying to solve.
Anyone not placing a dog already altered is not reputable, by definition.

Yeah, unfortunately some still do. Or they take a minimal "neutering deposit" that is refunded upon proof of neutering. I believe they've since changed their procedure, so I won't name them, but I quit volunteering (in rage and disgust) at a large, reasonably well-funded urban shelter in New England when some young men came in, looked at the lovely red with red nose Pit girl I was working with, asked only if she was spayed, and when I answered,"Not yet." said, "We'll take her." Their intentions were clear, and the $50 spay deposit was nothing compared to what a red/red (traditionally though to be the best for dogfighting so most desirable as macho status symbols even if not fighting them) was worth cranking out litters. The shelter manager had no problem OKing that adoption. Or the one of the 6 week old Dalmatian pup as a surprise gift from a woman to her mother-in-law "because she just found out her husband has terminal cancer and she needs a puppy to cheer her up."

Oy.

[citydog]

ome shelters, oddly, will not work with rescues. They will only adopt to private individuals.

Yeah, that *has* gotten a lot better up here, though. The 90s were really rough.

That's the only non-nefarious reason why someone might need another person to fill out the paperwork. And I personally would never ask someone to do it - there are plenty of dogs who need help that don't have anyone throwing up roadblocks.

I've done it and asked folks to do it in a couple of cases (with territorial, inflexible shelter folks), but the people involved were known quantities (either as individuals or established breed rescues) with plenty of references.

I can think of lots of heinous reasons why a person would need someone else to fill out paperwork. Hoarders, dealers in research dogs, BYB's, dog abusers, etc. all spring to mind.

Yep. *shudder*

[cloudyandcallie]

Whoa that's illegal in most places in GA. I used to help out at the Atlanta Humane society, and I've helped with the "purebred rescue" group (a misnomer as lots were mixed breed) which operated out of the Cobb pound and I've adopted out of the Cobb pound and out of the Chatham Humane society and out of the Coweta Humane Society and Friends of Animals (Atlanta chapter) and did dog and cat rescues for over 20 years in atlanta, and I knew the guy who left Atlanta Humane and ran the Fayette Humane society, we all worked together to rescue animals.
All the agencies listed above required and still require you to sign off on the pet, including that you will spay/alter, and can issue a warrant for you for disobeying (I had the coweta cat altered at Briarcliff in Atlanta and had to send them a copy of the bill since I didn't drive him down there to be altered as on the agreement.)
It is illegal to falsify the information when adopting an animal from an agency of the state of county or city in Georgia.
In fact, when I wanted to adopt some "death row" cats from one humane society to take to a family friend's plantation over in SC, I told them what I was going to do with the cats (I had many cats of my own) and the director was called out to see me and when i told him I knew what the PTSWSN meant on the back of the cards (put to sleep when space needed, a nice boy who worked there told me when I turned one cat's card over) the director agreed that I could adopt the cats and I x'ed out that paragraph in the form before I signed.
Do not adopt cats and dogs for others. Emory buys them from the shelters for experimentation at the VA hospital and big dogs are favored since they have chests most like humans for experimentation and surgery practice for doctors. (I've been there and seen it and it's been reported on tv there.)

[RedTahoe]

Nope, it's not illegal in Georgia. Spalding County, among other county shelters, will let dogs go to private individuals without being altered first. There is no Georgia law stating dogs have to be altered prior to going to a private individual. The Animal Protection Act only says must be altered within 30 days of adoption.

It is also not illegal to adopt the dog for someone else. There is only a checkbox on most county shelters that say, "for yourself" or "for someone else."

Unfortunately, most county shelters here in Georgia, in rural areas, don't have the funds to alter all animals prior to going to new homes, and many do not check on dogs after they are adopted.

My point was.....do not adopt animals for others, as was previously said by someone else. Make THEM sign their name to the dog, etc. and verify that every i is dotted and t is crossed.

[CB/TB]

The shelter I got our dog from would not release to the breed rescue, even after many calls. I don't know why it is such an issue with them. A good home should be the main priority, shelter or rescue. We went( with the rescue's blessing) and "sprung" her. She is a delight. Older than dirt, almost toothless and so lame she moves like a cartoon character! But, sooo sweet, happy and quite active, considering her faults. she and our young dog roll around the floor and it sounds like a genuine dog fight, both tails wagging madly . It can be a risk, you just don't know what you're getting, but if your gut tells you "go", you gotta go- and get that dog. This dog hit our doorway acting as if she's always been a part of teh family and our young dog just welcomed her as if it was her long lost Mom, or sibling.

[avezan]

I adopted an unaltered dog 2 months ago. He had gotten kennel cough and was on a very short time frame. They couldn't get him fixed right away and they couldn't keep him. I had driven 2 hours to get him and really didn't want to drive back and forth 2 more times. They at first offered me to foster him, get him fixed and bring him back to officially adopt. But that was just too much. They finally offered the neuter contract with a $40 refund with proof that he was fixed. I think they could tell that I was not interested in breeding him. ;) I did get him fixed within a week. The day after, a woman stopped me and asked his breed. I told her and she said she had just gotten a female of the same breed and could she breed her dog to mine. !?! I guess she figured she would get a free litter out of the deal. It amazes me what people are thinking.

[JSwan]

RedTahoe -

Do you sense any pattern in these requests? Any indication they are coming from the same individual, maybe? Similar language, similar type of dog, same shelter/rescue they're asking to adopt from?

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you are seeing evidence of possible illegal activity. For pit bull baiting, or for sale to a lab, or for food.

I'm probably just imagining things but heck - you just never know.

There are shelters around here that refuse to work with certain rescues, as those rescues have a bit of a bad reputation. But once they know you're not run by crazy people, and take good care of the dogs - they're wonderful.

[Alagirl]

well, for food you just have to open the local classifieds, free to good home... :dead:

but GSD and Labs....

If somebody does not want their name on the paper trail, something is fishy!

And somebody from graigs list, that's pretty much a no go for me, heck, I know a few people in person I wouldn't do that for, let alone somebody I don't kow from Adam's dog! (sry bad pun)

[RedTahoe]

RedTahoe -

Do you sense any pattern in these requests? Any indication they are coming from the same individual, maybe? Similar language, similar type of dog, same shelter/rescue they're asking to adopt from?

The person's e-mail address was from a free provider and did not have a return name.

The e-mail address was clist@............ in other words "craigslist." Very vague.

They also did not sign their e-mail with a name. It was just one-sentenced e-mails. After sending me a hateful reply asking who they were, I wrote them off.

However, we just got back from dinner, and there was an e-mail for me that said, "why wont u call me? 706-xxx-xxxx.......i like to talk to people still not email."

Sorry, but I did a reverse look up and a google search on the number, and they didn't come back with anything so....methinks not. The only thing I can do is warn people who regularly pull/rescue from Spalding.

They have also since deleted their ad from Craigslist (it was not flagged).

[Lori B]

Wow, that is creepy. I hope they don't know where you live, RedTahoe, they sound like bad news.

[appdream]

Could be a person looking for adoptions for more sinister reasons. Years ago where I grew up, there were an unusual amount of dead dogs found. Most of them could be traced back to the SPCA. There was also a problem with false names and addresses used for adoptions at the same time.

[Jaegermonster]

RedTahoe -

Do you sense any pattern in these requests? Any indication they are coming from the same individual, maybe? Similar language, similar type of dog, same shelter/rescue they're asking to adopt from?

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you are seeing evidence of possible illegal activity. For pit bull baiting, or for sale to a lab, or for food.

I'm probably just imagining things but heck - you just never know.

There are shelters around here that refuse to work with certain rescues, as those rescues have a bit of a bad reputation. But once they know you're not run by crazy people, and take good care of the dogs - they're wonderful.


I don't think you're imagining anything. I think you hit it right on the head.
People who aren't doing bad things don't try to find ways to get around the system, so to speak.
I know the shelter and humane society I am active with maintains a list of people they will not release animals to, and knowing who those folks are it would surprise me if they didn't put something on Craig's list. Some people will do anything for a buck.

[RedTahoe]

Wow, that is creepy. I hope they don't know where you live, RedTahoe, they sound like bad news.

I never give out my personal information including phone numbers, addresses, etc. unless I know the person.

This person is adamant about having someone call him (Blue Ridge, Georgia number). When I told him I don't call people I don't know, he said, "I sorry you want call me on the phobe. I find email to be impersonal. if you want help me save dogs best of luck to you. R U FLAGGING MY ADS."


The ads the person had posted......were deleted by the author :confused:

Weirdo...and scary.

[Bluey]

I never give out my personal information including phone numbers, addresses, etc. unless I know the person.

This person is adamant about having someone call him (Blue Ridge, Georgia number). When I told him I don't call people I don't know, he said, "I sorry you want call me on the phobe. I find email to be impersonal. if you want help me save dogs best of luck to you. R U FLAGGING MY ADS."


The ads the person had posted......were deleted by the author :confused:

Weirdo...and scary.

I would let craiglist know, so they keep an eye on that one.

No telling, the asking you for help with the dogs may be a way to get information about you.
Craiglist and the internet in general are good places to be a little bit paranoid, as that may help keep you out of trouble.

[Mara]

There's a special place in hell for people who pose as a rescue to obtain dogs for the express purpose of doing harm to them.

[BLBGP]

The shelter I got our dog from would not release to the breed rescue, even after many calls. I don't know why it is such an issue with them. A good home should be the main priority, shelter or rescue.

Depends on the rescue. My local shelter works with some rescues, but not with others. A lot of "rescues" just want to take highly-desirable breeds that would be adopted at the shelter no problem, presumably to get the money and/or glory? Other rescues, sadly, too many, are glorified hoarders. It's good for shelters to not automatically give pets to someone, just because they call themselves a rescue.

[Jaegermonster]

If you sent him an email he can probably track your ISP. There are some very not nice people on Craigslist, be careful.

[AiryFairy]

This was all over the dog lists a few months ago, people wanting dogs, contacting breeders, wanting people to get them for them, oh by the way I can't get a computer either so can you get one and I'll pay you back - blah blah blah. Scammers aren't interested in dogs, they're interested in relieving you of the contents of your bank account.

[Alagirl]

If you sent him an email he can probably track your ISP. There are some very not nice people on Craigslist, be careful.


Well, another good reminder why having a proxy lined up for surfing.:yes:

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

This was all over the dog lists a few months ago, people wanting dogs, contacting breeders, wanting people to get them for them, oh by the way I can't get a computer either so can you get one and I'll pay you back - blah blah blah. Scammers aren't interested in dogs, they're interested in relieving you of the contents of your bank account.

Wait - how did the scammer explain posting on a dog list and then not having access to a computer?:lol:

I'm glad it's more than likely just a scam, though, and not someone out to do physical harm to dogs or people.

[CB/TB]

BLBGP, this is a bona fide chapter of a national rescue. It is breed specific, so has , probably a core group of interested people. I certainly support a shelter NOT releasing an unaltered animal, or receiving proof of neutering before finalizing an adoption. The rescue requires a set fee, depending on the age of the dog, while the shelter just requests a donation of whatever. In this particular dog's case, given her physical problems, I think the rescue would have been better able to place her.But, it's water under the bridge now, because she is "home" and getting teh care she deserves.

[RedTahoe]

Well, another good reminder why having a proxy lined up for surfing.:yes:

That I do (on my home computer).

I don't think this is a scammer, though. Their phone number checks out as a landline in the area that the ad said he was from.

Some rescues that deal with Spalding County on a regular basis have no idea who this person is and is not acting with or on behalf of a rescue that takes the time to post all of the dogs at this shelter, etc.

His/her newest ads:

"THIS LOVELY DOGS LOVE PEOPLE (YOU CAN TELL BY ITS PICTURE) SHE MAY BE PUT DOWN ON MONDAY BECUASE NO ONE HAS CLAIMED HER. I CAN PAY THE EXPENSES TO FOSTER HER, I WILL REIMBURSE MILAGE... YOU TELL ME. PLEASE HELP ME SAVE HER LIFE. I CAN PICK HER UP FIRDAY NORTH OF ATLANTA. CALL ME IF YOU CAN HELP 706-xxx-xxxx"

"I NOTICED THIS LOVING DOG IS IN A SHELTER THAT GASES THE DOGS. BECAUSE SHE IS NOT A PUPPY SHE MAY NOT MAKE IT OUT WITH YOUR HELP. I HAVE A HUSKY SHEPARD DOG AT HOME AND SHE IS THE BEST DOG I HAVE EVER HAD. THEY ARE VERY SMART BREED AND ARE NON AGREESSIVE. IF YOU CAN FOSTER HER I WILL PAY THE EXPENSES OR IF YOU CAN PICK HER UP I AND MEET ME NORTH OF ATLANTA I WILL PAY YOUR EXEPNSES. I WORK IN BLUE RIDGE BUT I TRAVEL TO OHIO EVERY FIRDAY. PLEASE HELP ME SAVE THIS DOGS LIFE. CALL . I ONCLUDED SOME OTHER DOGS THAT ARE SCHEDULED TO BE GASED,. 706-xxx-xxxx."

"TAKE GOOD LOOK INTO HER EYES... SHE HAS ALMOST GIVEN UP ON FINDING A GREAT HOME. SHE IS SCHEDULED TO DIE MONDAY IF NO CAN FOSTER OR ADOPT HER. I PULLED 3 DOGS FROM THE SHELTER ON FRIDAY AND I DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO TAKE HER. (How did he pull three dogs from the shelter on Friday when he said he couldn't get there?) MY HEART IS BREAKING KNOWNING SHE WILL DIE DUE TO LACK OF SPACE IN MY CAR. WHEN I MET HER SHE SEEMED VERY FRIENDLY BUT YOU CAN TELL NO ONE HAS LOVED HER. SHE RECENTLY HAD PUPPYS AND KNOW THE OWNER HAS DUMPED HER. PLEASE TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AND IF YOU CAN HELP PLEASE ADOPT HER OR FOSTER HER TO GIVE ME MORE TIME TO FIND HER A REAL HOME 706-xxx-xxxx."

"IF YOU CAN ADOPT OR FORSTER ANY OR ALL OF THESE DOGS CALL ME ASAP AT 706-xxx-xxxx AND LETS TALK HOW TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. CALL TODAY."

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Nutjobs like that are one reason I got out of rescue. Too many emails headed "THIS DOG DIES TOMORROW WITHOUT YOUR HELP AND IT'LL BE ALL YOUR FAULT YOU COLD-HEARTED BEEYOTCH" - well, ok slight exaggeration but not much.

The other reason was the strong impulse to strangle the 99,999th person who said they loved their border collie but to be fair to the dog they were surrendering her to rescue, since she needs a farm on which to run and livestock to "herd." (Cause we had that long list of farms who couldn't wait to take a dog with no breeding, talent or training and turn it loose to harass their stock until it got shot by the neighbors.)

:sigh: My advice? Just stop reading those kinds of ads and definitely don't respond.

[RedTahoe]

:sigh: My advice? Just stop reading those kinds of ads and definitely don't respond.

The ads I posted were not the same type as the ad to which I replied. I replied to someone who is actually associated with a legitimate rescue asking if there was anyone who could help with transport for two particular dogs.

When I replied, she passed along the "clist" guy/girl's contact information.

It wasn't until I googled the "clist" person's phone number that I found the ads he/she just posted today.

[cloudyandcallie]

I called Spaulding County. They require an adopter to sign a written agreement that the animal will be returned to the shelter if the adopter gives it up. The adopter is not to be an agent or sham for another person. They require that the dog/cat be spayed/altered(they say neutered).
Anyone who "adopts" as an agent for another is violating the contract.
The phone # is 770-467-4772 in Spaulding and the nice lady Lee will read the contract to you.
Just about every legitimate rescue/shelter/humane society in this state has the same printed form of contract for adoptions. Anyone who signs the contract and then violates it can be prosecuted.

[Jaegermonster]

Yeah just like the right of first refusal when you sell or give away your horse.
I have adopted several dogs from various rescues and signed a contract just like that.
After i walked out the door with the dog I never heard from them again. So how would they know what happened to the dog?
I'm sure manpower has a lot to do with it, but they have to check up on the animals if they want to enforce something like that.

[RedTahoe]

Spalding does what they can; however, there is a reason why there are so many BYBers in that area. They do not check up on animals to see if they are spayed/neutered within 30 days, etc.

[Jaegermonster]

Believe me, I know. I wasn't throwing any stones or anything. I'm very active with Animal Control in my area, and I'm also the animal investigator for the local sheriff's office.
that is one reason why our local rescues etc don't place anything that is not altered.
Nothing leaves that shelter with all it's doodads. Period.

It just sucks. Because none of this needs to happen at all, we are just cleaning up someone else's mess.

[EponaRoan]

It could be a scammer. Or a hoarder.

[sisu27]

There's a special place in hell for people who pose as a rescue to obtain dogs for the express purpose of doing harm to them.
I'll say. Gawd I have a hard time not hating humans (present company excluded of course :)).

My last Dobe (who was the dog-of-a-lifetime...I miss you so Mak) was at a Rottie rescue. He ended up there because he had run out of time at the shelter as everyone interested in him was of the unsavoury variety and they were concerned as a big scary looking Dobe he would be used as bait or some other horrible thing. Makes me sick to this day that if they had let him go to the first meat-head who wanted him who knows what horrible things he would have been through. He was the sweetest, kindest being I have ever known.

Anyways, this is something new and scary to me and I would cut this weirdo off right quick.

[JSwan]

Ewww.. creepy. When I read that ad I felt the need to take a shower.

Is it possible to alert Craigslist of possible illegal activity, and the alert the shelter that they may be the target of possible hoarding or falsified adoption applications?

[RedTahoe]

The guy says he lives here in Georgia, but "works in Ohio on the weekends" and will be "taking dogs up to Ohio." I know that there are rescues that do this, but I don't think this person is a rescue so the cynic in me comes out and asks, "what's he doing with the dogs? Selling them with other motives than pets?"

[vacation1]

I wouldn't hold out hopes for craigslist being responsible. It took a murder for them to finally shut down their de-facto prostitution listings. I've always been uneasy about the much-lauded 'rescue train', even when it's legitimately well-intentioned people trying to save animals. It's just too easy to ship serious problem dogs out of the area where their history is known, increasing the chances of their behavior escalating dangerously. The 'rescue' world already has too much obsessiveness on 'saving' every unwanted dog, too little focus on ethical behavior; it's not surprising that illegitimate, profit-motivated people have gotten involved. Unprofessional and unethical behavior by sincere 'rescuers' just swung the door wide open for them.

[pj]

Could be a person looking for adoptions for more sinister reasons. Years ago where I grew up, there were an unusual amount of dead dogs found. Most of them could be traced back to the SPCA. There was also a problem with false names and addresses used for adoptions at the same time.
When I adopted my pup from our county shelter a few weeks ago I expected them to ask for id but they didn't. Kinda surprising as I think that's one of the first things I would do.
This shelter normally wouldn't let one go without being neutered but they did let me take my boy on. We knew people in common. He's to be neutered June 15th. and the shelter pays for it.
Some years ago I got a kitten from a shelter two countys over and signed an agreement that he would be neutered within thirty days. Had a time getting an appointment for him that quickly and when I was telling my then sil about it (he was ac in a nearby county) he said if I didn't do it they wouldn't do ANYTHING as it was out of their county!!! If they wouldn't do anything if it's out of county they sure aren't going to do anything if it's out of state.