safety of the horse in a trailer set up like a stall?

[marta]

i haul my mare loose in a 2 horse stock type horse trailer (another words the center divider is out and it's one box the size of a 2 horse straight load).
i was talking to my gf the other day while transporting her horse in my trailer and she said that she loves the fact that her horse is able to assume a most comfortable position, drop its head and move a little but she feels that in case of an emergency stop the horse's safety in that set up is more compromised b/c they're more likely to fall down than if they were in a regular set up with the dividers.

the closest i ever came to an emergency stop (knock on wood!!!!) w/ my set up was when my trailer came off the ball (i posted about it last year, it was my mistake, i never put the pin through so when i hit a big bump the receiver popped off the ball). my mare didn't fall although the trailer ended up at a rather dramatic angle.

what are your thoughts? is the horse safer in the trailer w/ dividers?

[greysandbays]

Assuming the back gate is high enough that there is absolutely ZERO chance of an untied horse getting out over it (and it takes less space than you'd think!), I think it's six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. Most of the time, either one would be safe. On occasion, either one can get your horse killed.

[2bee]

Physics dictate secured cargo is safer.........so a horse properly secured in a stall, slant or straight, is going to be safer. Safer for the animal, and safer in reference to vehicle handling.

If not properly secured during an emergency stop the animal will have nothing to brace against and will stand a great chance of going down/being slammed into the front of the trailer, similar to you not wearing a seat belt. And during an emergency maneuver the unsecured cargo (a horse in this case) will cause trailer instability, and subsequent loss of control by slamming/flying around.

[marta]

but shouldn't the horse be able to brace against the 4 walls around it?

greysandbays,
not sure what you mean by the 'gate' being high enough? do you mean the back door? it's a full size enclosed door, it's not one of those half open jobs if that's what you had in mind.

[2bee]

but shouldn't the horse be able to brace against the 4 walls around it?

greysandbays,
not sure what you mean by the 'gate' being high enough? do you mean the back door? it's a full size enclosed door, it's not one of those half open jobs if that's what you had in mind.

The best example I can think of would be you standing in the back of a pickup running down the road.

Say the pickup was running 60 mph down the road and I slammed on the brakes, would you rather be standing in the middle of the bed? Or already braced against the back of the cab?

Sure the horse 'could' be braced against the right wall at the right time, but it is unlikely. A horse cant see what is happening on the road while inside the trailer or make decisions of that complexity to begin with.....so I make it for them by securing them in a stall. Not to say you cant haul with them loose, I have hauled loose and will do so again IF the situations calls for it....not on a regular basis though.

[nightsong]

A horse loose in a trailer will find its OWN balance, and will adjust its position, balance over its legs, and spread its legs to be the most stable it can be. NOT like a piece of cargo that needs to be tied down. Just like YOU find your balance on a horse's back and don't need to be tied on as a DEAD WEIGHT would be. When riding, when the horse stumbles, you're better off given the freedom to rebalance, instead of being straitjacketed on th horse.

[Badger]

I know someone who had two horses in an open steel stock trailer, no dividers. He was going down the highway when someone ran a stop sign and broadsided his rig at 55 mph. The other driver was seriously hurt and may have died at the hospital. His truck and trailer separated and both rolled and both were totaled. One horse needed some stitches, but it was minor. The other didn't even need stitches.

There are times that an open space will work for you, and times it might work against you, but I do not believe at all the it is inherently less safe than a partitioned design. The horses can spread their four legs wide and balance themselves best in an open design. They often turn around so they can butt up against the bulkhead wall of the trailer and brace against that if needed.

[Guilherme]

A horse loose in a trailer will find its OWN balance, and will adjust its position, balance over its legs, and spread its legs to be the most stable it can be. NOT like a piece of cargo that needs to be tied down. Just like YOU find your balance on a horse's back and don't need to be tied on as a DEAD WEIGHT would be. When riding, when the horse stumbles, you're better off given the freedom to rebalance, instead of being straitjacketed on th horse.

Well, no.

A horse is a physical object and, as such, is subject to Newton's Three Laws of Physics (whether or not the owner has ever studied Law or Physics). The fact that it can balance when the trailer is in constant motion is unquestioned. When the trailer changes velocity the horse will have to re-adjust the balance. If the change is slow, no problem. If the change is rapid (as in a sudden, emergency stop) then the horse becomes a 1000 pound (more or less) missle in the back of the trailer. This is true whether the horse is loose in a "box" or restricted by dividers. The restriction, however, will seriously limit "travel" of the horse and the consequences of such travel.

Then there are other hazards like potholes, rough roads, sudden lane changes, etc. Horses generally have pretty good balance, but the ability to brace against a solid divider will enhance, not detract from, equine safety.

The use of ties is less certain from a "safety" perspective and arguments can be made both ways.

I wear a seat belt when I drive. I tied down large objects (tractors, skid steers, etc.) when I haul them. I'm going to do what I can to restrict the motions of horses as a matter of routine, also.

G.

[bird4416]

Well said Guilherme. Its when things go wrong while driving that the horse is less safe when loose.

[Sneekers]

Actually, the horse is safer when loose as it can rebalance and/or escape more easily. My mare rides loose in her trailer (also stock-type) like Marta. She finds her "happy place" and watches the world go by. I was concerned when I first started pulling her this way, I was worried that she would be shifting and moving all over the place and not able to balance or brace herself. I was really wrong!

Not long after, I read somewhere (and if I can ever find it, I'll post it - it was several years ago) that a study found that horses that traveled loose in their trailer box or stall, suffered significantly fewer and less serious injuries than horses that were tied. It didn't really make sense to me at first (didn't sound logical, as others mentioned above).

Thankfully, I've never been put to the test, but I know for sure that my mare is infinitely more comfortable and relaxed when riding loose compared to being tied in a stall with the partition up. FWIW.....

[jengersnap]

Interesting discussion.

Does anyone think size matters? I've a smaller TB mare, and a two horse w/o a partition. I've debated building a removable one, but this particular mare has a history of unloading issues (runs off backwards and bangs her hip to the point she has scar tissue from doing it so many times as a young horse). Since I've had her, I haul in the open 2 horse and can totally turn her around in the trailer and walk her out straight no problem. She's small. Is being able to turn around like that affect anyone's decisions to haul loose? I currently cross tie her as I'd hate to single tie and have her try to turn around while in the trailer. Perhaps I should just leave her loose instead?

[NoDQhere]

We haul both ways, loose or stalled depending on how many horses are going. We haul long distances. No doubt about it, a box stall is best and safest. A horse can not be compared to "cargo", and thinking a horse is "secure" because of the divider is a false sense of security. A horse is far more likely to end up over or under a divider in an accident.

Years ago, one of the big Vet Schools (I think) did a research project and hauling loose was the easiest on the horse as well.

I think if a horse hauls best loose and you have that option, haul loose.

[fair judy]

i always use a slant now. the horse is far more able to balance in that configuration.

the biggest NO-NO to me is a full partition. i hate them. they restrict the horses ability to spread, and literally teach a good shipper to "scramble".

[greysandbays]

greysandbays,
not sure what you mean by the 'gate' being high enough? do you mean the back door? it's a full size enclosed door, it's not one of those half open jobs if that's what you had in mind.

Yeah, I mean the back door. Some stock trailers don't have full-height back doors. If a loose horse took a notion to try going over it, it wouldn't be pretty: Horse goes splat on the highway (possibly in front of on-coming traffic) if he makes it or gets hung up part way through if he doesn't.

[PNWjumper]

I'd love to see links to the studies you guys are referencing regarding safety and loose horses.

I recall several studies that concluded that it was better on the horses' general physical condition to haul loose (the ability to assume a preferred stance/balance leading to less stress overall for the horse), but never anything that referred to the safety of the horse in regards to accidents or acute injuries.

I don't haul loose, but then I always have at least two horses in my 3H slant trailer, so it wouldn't make sense. I have hauled youngsters loose and on occaision used a friend's two horse trailer as a box stall of sorts. I guess I feel like hauling a horse in general is a pretty risky proposition (I can't help but think about how they're not really *meant* to go 60mph on pavement :lol:). I like the comparison to seat belts, though I don't think partitions add as nearly as much additional safety (if any) as seat belts in a car. But there's always that random story about the beltless person who was thrown clear of the car in an accident and walked away with barely a scratch while the car was completely totalled. It doesn't mean that seatbelts are not safer in the majority of accidents.

I can say that when a wheel sheared off of my trailer at 60mph I was thankful that the horses were secured by partitions. More than one repair guy commented that a moving weight inside of the trailer would have had a much greater chance of overloading the single remaining tire on the one side and causing it to blow. But that's all conjecture. I'd like to know if any studies have been done on a correlation between safety (as related to acute-injury/accident) and loose/secured horses.

[RAyers]

Physics dictate secured cargo is safer.........so a horse properly secured in a stall, slant or straight, is going to be safer. Safer for the animal, and safer in reference to vehicle handling.

If not properly secured during an emergency stop the animal will have nothing to brace against and will stand a great chance of going down/being slammed into the front of the trailer, similar to you not wearing a seat belt. And during an emergency maneuver the unsecured cargo (a horse in this case) will cause trailer instability, and subsequent loss of control by slamming/flying around.

Have you ever watched or ridden with horses in a trailer? Horses do not instinctively lean against brace against the partitions etc. Having now a video system, and as a kid riding with the horses (before there were laws) I have had the chance to see how they respond in traffic, highway and in between. I come by my understanding from multiple personal experiences both as a driver, veterinary response to accidents, and coming to the aid of others. (Sadly, I have to say I have been involved in 6 trailer incidents across the US over the past 30 years with both loose and restrained horses).

I my opinion, a restrained horse is MORE dangerous than an unrestrained horse especially when they panic. I found that while a restrained horse may survive a crash, when they are released their instinct takes over and people get hurt in the confined space of the trailer.

One of the more amazing accidents I worked was where a 7 horse slant went head-on into a cliff. The horses accordioned inside the trailer, crushing the front horses. There was another where 3 horses fell inside the trailer and we had to basically disassemble the entire interior to get them all out. They were unable to balance due to the constriction of the partitions on the winding mountain roads.

I haul loose when I can.

I know of several hauling studies done at UC Davis. From a pure health issue, loose was the least stressful on a horse and there was a reduced potential of shipping fever when the subjects were exposed to the anitgen.

Reed

[4Martini]

I haul loose and have been warned by people that it's more dangerous.

I just can't get over the fact that my horse arrives relaxed and not all sweaty and fired up. He is happy, he loads semi-reliably which he has never done before in his life. I had a friend trailer him to a clinic last summer and while he got on the trailer okay he had to be tranqed to get on for the return trip in the trailer with the dividers (luckily friend is a vet.) If he was constantly getting ping ponged around I would think he would be more stressed on arrival.

I have had to slam the brakes on once when I was getting on the highway and someone without signalling swung across into the on ramp lane across a few lanes of traffic - my horse seemed to do just fine. We cross railroads etc and he seems to do fine. I've hauled up super windy roads in the mountains with no issues. I can usually see the corner of his nose looking out the front the window the entire journey. He may get bumped around if something happens- but he's less likely to get stuck or crushed by dividers.

I don't know- I would love to see some studies on safety though.

[Huntertwo]

After hearing endless nightmares about horses falling under the divider, getting legs caught in mangers (experienced this myself) or over the dividers, trying to squeeze through the escape door etc. - WHEN I get a trailer it will definitely be a stock - hands down.:yes:

[gothedistance]

I also have a video system and can watch my horse(s) 100% of the time while traveling. My 4 horse gooseneck is an open floor plan with put-up/take-down "stalls", but I prefer just to have the center pole with the two chest bars in place to separate where the horse can stand. I tie loosely so that the horse can position itself where it wants. Trailer video shows that every one prefers to stand straight forward. When I don't tie, they still stand straight, facing forward.

Had to do an emergency stop pulling a 2horse bumper pull once when some idiot lady pulled out of her driveway right in front of me, and then sat there, frozen in horror, as I laid on the brakes like there was no tomorrow. Screaming tires, smoke, etc. Came within 1/2 inch of making her car my front grill ornament, so close my truck bumper was just about kissing her paint job. In my trailer were two Thoroughbreds -- the older one fell down and was laying on the floor when we ran back to check on them; the younger one was just fine. 1/2 divider. The downed horse lay there calmly while we unloaded his buddy, moved the divider over, and then he casually got up, no scratches, no damage.

So it looks like it depends on the horse regarding who falls, and who stays upright.

[2bee]

Have you ever watched or ridden with horses in a trailer? Horses do not instinctively lean against brace against the partitions etc. Having now a video system, and as a kid riding with the horses (before there were laws) I have had the chance to see how they respond in traffic, highway and in between. I come by my understanding from multiple personal experiences both as a driver, veterinary response to accidents, and coming to the aid of others. (Sadly, I have to say I have been involved in 6 trailer incidents across the US over the past 30 years with both loose and restrained horses).

I my opinion, a restrained horse is MORE dangerous than an unrestrained horse especially when they panic. I found that while a restrained horse may survive a crash, when they are released their instinct takes over and people get hurt in the confined space of the trailer.

One of the more amazing accidents I worked was where a 7 horse slant went head-on into a cliff. The horses accordioned inside the trailer, crushing the front horses. There was another where 3 horses fell inside the trailer and we had to basically disassemble the entire interior to get them all out. They were unable to balance due to the constriction of the partitions on the winding mountain roads.

I haul loose when I can.

I know of several hauling studies done at UC Davis. From a pure health issue, loose was the least stressful on a horse and there was a reduced potential of shipping fever when the subjects were exposed to the anitgen.

Reed

I believe you've misunderstood my meaning of brace. Guilherme, explained it more elaborately. I'm looking to stay out of an accident by keeping the cargo under control. If I have to slam on the brakes at 65 mph the truck will slow, but the horse is still traveling at 65 mph and will continue to travel the next few feet at 65 mph to whichever part of the trailer he comes to first. Add a slight swerve to miss some jackass that cut me off heading for the exit and now the horse is slamming into the side of the trailer, that is not conducive for maintaining control of the rig. Secured in a stall he will only move a few inches in any direction and will have very little impact on the stability of the rig.

As for the aftermath of a wreck or what condition my horse arrives at the destination in, those are distant secondary considerations to maintaining control of the rig.

I can see no benefit to safety by hauling the horse loose, physical reasons could no doubt be discussed. I'm not doubting you trailer wreck experiences, but I would think six is hardly enough to form a solid opinion either way. Too many variables, the how and why of the wrecks, temperaments of the horses, skillset of the responders, etc.

[RAyers]

... I'm not doubting you trailer wreck experiences, but I would think six is hardly enough to form a solid opinion either way. Too many variables, the how and why of the wrecks, temperaments of the horses, skillset of the responders, etc.


That is six where me and my rig were involved. I am at around 100 if you put in my time at a large animal hospital, acting as a horse ambulance, and responding to others who have had incidents. Some of those included horses sliding UNDER the partition in a sudden stop (both in slant and straight loads).

True, the physics of momentum is basic. However, unlike an inanimate object, the center of mass, gyration and center of gravity of an animal can change in mid flight, thus causing them to change vectors without input (e.g. a cat falling, a diver, a person tripping and falling). Thus, any living organism in the trailer or automobile can act VERY differently than a dead load as with which most truckers are familiar.

Reed

[2bee]

That is six where me and my rig were involved. I am at around 100 if you put in my time at a large animal hospital, acting as a horse ambulance, and responding to others who have had incidents. Some of those included horses sliding UNDER the partition in a sudden stop (both in slant and straight loads).

True, the physics of momentum is basic. However, unlike an inanimate object, the center of mass, gyration and center of gravity of an animal can change in mid flight, thus causing them to change vectors without input (e.g. a cat falling, a diver, a person tripping and falling). Thus, any living organism in the trailer or automobile can act VERY differently than a dead load as with which most truckers are familiar.

Reed

Well 106 is better, but still not much of a case study.....still to many variables.

Anyhow, A horse can go down in a trailer for any reason at any time. I agree a horse could "catch" itself in an emergency maneuver, but I suspect the chance of that happening is slim. Why take the chance?

I'll still hedge my bets and secure the cargo.

[2bee]

We haul both ways, loose or stalled depending on how many horses are going. We haul long distances. No doubt about it, a box stall is best and safest. A horse can not be compared to "cargo", and thinking a horse is "secure" because of the divider is a false sense of security. A horse is far more likely to end up over or under a divider in an accident.

Years ago, one of the big Vet Schools (I think) did a research project and hauling loose was the easiest on the horse as well.

I think if a horse hauls best loose and you have that option, haul loose.

A horse does not have to be compared to cargo, they are cargo. As in; freight, a load, etc. I personally did not intend to portray a false sense of security when referring to the horse being secure in the stall. Should there be a wreck (there are no accidents) all bets are off.......loose, stalled, in the bed of the truck, standing on top of the trailer........there is no way to know what is better as no two situations are alike.

The whole premise of safer was avoiding the wreck to begin with. Having a 1000 lbs or more of unsecured/moving weight in the trailer will be a hindrance in an emergency......period.

Although having re-read this thread and noting the amount of people who feel it is alright to have horses running loose, I think I see why the "got to have a 3/4 ton" response to towing threads is so common. No doubt more rig weight will be advantageous when you have animals running loose in the trailer.