How to straighten the crooked canter

[Catalina]

My new guy, Mark, has decided that straight sucks, especially to the right, and so a battle often ensues, resulting in me trying to kick/squeeze/manipulate/cram etc the hindquarters one way and the shoulders the other and Mark becoming a nervous ball of opposition and cantering in place (I didn't know horses could do that :eek:) and generally ignoring me. I can get him straight at the walk and about 60% at the trot, but the canter to the right :no:. He throws his butt so far to the inside that I can see it out of the corner of my eye and he will often swap leads behind. I have tried counter bending, transitions, shoulder in, circles, spiral in/out, TONS of inside leg and opening rein, etc. He was getting better, but we seem to have hit a wall.
I know some of it is a strength issue- he was underweight and unfit when I got him- and he doesn't have the best hocks on the planet and was stepping really short with his left hind. After lots of good quality feed and extensive chiro/masseuse work, he is pretty even behind and stronger.
Any suggestions? He is SUPER sensitive and gets really upset about everything, so I have to be firm and demanding in a calm and relaxed manner (which invloves lots of deep breaths and counting to 10 as I try not to scream at him). Is this just something that I need to keep plugging away at?

[CookiePony]

Some random thoughts:
Do you yourself have any crookedness in your position? Are you by chance stepping more heavily into your left stirrup?
How consistent is he in your outside (left) rein? Are either of you hanging on the inside/right rein?
What happens if you do some steps of counterbend at the canter?

[eventinglvr]

My horse has the EXACT same problem. I've found that my position really effects this. I would suggest you try riding without stirrups and see if that helps. I do this periodically and am suprised that when I don't have stirrups, my horse canters perfectly straight to the right.

Over time what can happen is that you start collapsing your right side and shifting to the left, which in turn unbalances the horse. Try thinking of making the right side of your waist long and stretched up, and make sure you're sitting equally on both seat bones. You'd be surprised, but sometimes sitting a tad more on the right seatbone will help.

[Jleegriffith]

Wait are you riding my horse? Seriously, I have written in the blog lately about Dixie's right sided canter which has driven me crazy. When he came he had no right lead and getting him to step around using the inside hind was impossible. One chiro appointment and boom the right lead magically appeared so problem #1 was gone. We spent the winter foxhunting and trail riding so the right issue wasn't addressed. Then event season was here and I said we must fix the right issue.

My instructor has been doing some of the riding to help me out because he is a bit tougher than some of the others. Basically we are doing lots of work to get that side stronger but making him move off the inside leg to the outside rein. That is the whole issue with him is that he wants to lean on the right leg so you can't push him over to the outside rein to free up the inside hind. I do lots of lateral work - leg yields, shoulder in, spiral circles and more to get him moving off the inside leg and taking up the feel in the outside rein. When going left I will do a slight counter bend to keep him straight because he over bends a bit to the left. I don't even want him to really bend much going right but I just want him to be straight and soft on the inside rein because he is pushing into the outside rein.

I will say it has been a bit ugly insisting he move off the inside hind but let me me tell you when it happens the canter is straight and magical. Makes me want to shout because it is amazing!!! The crazy thing is when we actually get him moving off the inside right hind the left lead canter is even better than the right lead canter. His whole canter is transformed. He is also the very sensitive type and although he doesn't meltdown he gets very stressed by the increased demands. Yes, I think sometimes you do have to push this hard to truly make them use themselves. I tend to work hard on it one day and follow but something easier the next day and make sure to throw in trail rides in between to keep him mentally happy.

I also had my chiro out again recently and she said he was out on the right side of his body but the left side of his neck which would have been resulting in what I was feeling with him cocking his head right and pushing his body against my right leg. With these guys it is important to keep up with the mainteance chiro appointments to keep them comfortable while we are reshaping their muscles.

[yellowbritches]

Paco the noodle (who's leaving today! I'll miss the little SOB) has taught me all about this. I spend a lot of time on two things. Riding him very, very straight between my aids (the whole "make your legs and reins a tunnel" thing) and putting his shoulders and haunches where I want them (meaning, lots and lots of lateral work). I spend a lot of time doing this at the walk (it is HARD work to ride a horse perfectly straight!) and trot and as it gets confirmed there, it gets easier to do things in the canter. He definitely rather throw his haunches in 80 different directions, but with straightness comes strength and with strength comes much less "I DON'T WANT TO!!!"

DO make sure you are sitting dead straight and even in all your work, especially the canter.
DO make sure that the aids you use to correct him are always the same (just because you are cantering does not mean the aids for a little shoulder fore or to block his haunches are any different).
DO maybe have him looked over by a chiro, get him a massage, or have a lameness exam done. The swapping behind is a big sign of a sore SI, which is a common complaint in horses as they learn to use their muscles. Often, a couple of chiro treatments help, but sometimes you need to get a little more intense with it.

No worries. Weak horses often get crooked, but it will go away as they get stronger and more obedient. As a baby last year, Vernon could be very crooked in his canter work. Now I don't think it is ever an issue, unless he's just being cheeky in his jumping. :yes:

[Jleegriffith]

The best part about making them straight is how much easier the jumping becomes. All of a sudden the horse who struggled to canter courses was now cantering in balance and throwing changes just for the fun of it. The balance had changed from making him stronger and making him straight. Got to love how good flatwork improves the total horse making the whole ride easier. One day you jump a fence and think was that my horse?? Wow, he can really jump:lol:

[findeight]

Try looking at/thinking about a few things.

And, trust me, I may be wandering over from Hunterland but have had horses that could go on, like, 6 tracks as they crab down the rail. Also learned the single thing that most influences a good lead change, good quality gaits and a good jump is a straight horse, you need to fix it to the extent possible.

1. Overall physically stronger to one side and compensating. Solution is strengthening the weak side.

2. Pain. Try giving a gram of bute for 3 days (it will NOT hurt him short term) and seeing of he goes straighter. If he does, figure out where the pain is originating and fix it.

3. Saddle fit creating pain.

4. You ride crooked. We all do. Reins uneven? One hand higher then the other? We all do that too.

5. You are trying to go too slow before he is balanced enough to do it. Speed up and stop picking, he can't go anywhere even if he gets quick.

6. Get out of the ring and start building him on long straight lines. They all learn to crab around sideways instead of coming up to the bridle properly from too many circles in too small rings that take away all thier impulsion.

[yellowbritches]

Try looking at/thinking about a few things.

And, trust me, I may be wandering over from Hunterland but have had horses that could go on, like, 6 tracks as they crab down the rail. Also learned the single thing that most influences a good lead change, good quality gaits and a good jump is a straight horse, you need to fix it to the extent possible.

1. Overall physically stronger to one side and compensating. Solution is strengthening the weak side.

2. Pain. Try giving a gram of bute for 3 days (it will NOT hurt him short term) and seeing of he goes straighter. If he does, figure out where the pain is originating and fix it.

3. Saddle fit creating pain.

4. You ride crooked. We all do. Reins uneven? One hand higher then the other? We all do that too.

5. You are trying to go too slow before he is balanced enough to do it. Speed up and stop picking, he can't go anywhere even if he gets quick.

6. Get out of the ring and start building him on long straight lines. They all learn to crab around sideways instead of coming up to the bridle properly from too many circles in too small rings that take away all thier impulsion.
All very good suggestions, and I wholeheartedly agree with number 2. The swapping behind is what makes me think it might be a bit more than just weakness.

[findeight]

If the canter to the right is the worst, look to the left hind that orginates the canter stride and pushes all the weight off.

It could just be weak. Or it hurts.

Not all soreness results in lameness and not everybody can pick out a grade 1 out of 5 on a hind until it advances to grade 2+. Or both hinds are sore but that one is worse so there is little or no gait irregularity. Or it's his back.

Usually, if it is the canter showing the trouble, it's in the back end.

Rule out pain before you do anything else.

[wildlifer]

Thank you for this thread!!! My horse has a very similiar problem. He doesn't swap behind, but he is a very crooked little bugger, for him it's the left lead. We're working on it and it's improved a little with strength building and lateral work, but it's slowwwwwwwww....

[carolinagirl191]

I agree w/ Findeight and Yellow Britches. Get a ground person with a Good Eye to see where you might be crooked yourself and check for pain in your pony.

I'm coming back from a bad fall and a broken clavical. I put a lot of time into my strength and fitness in my recovery. I was aware that my right shoulder was lower than my left. Even with awareness and intent, I was still really wrong and crooked. I was working on making my horse straight from a compromised position.

I took a lesson w/ a dressage judge and the entire lesson was correcting a cataloging my position. When I felt straight, she said I was very crooked and my horse struggled. I felt compeletly "crooked" when she said I was straght BUT the horse went much better. So, I'm now intentionally riding what feels "crooked". We picked a few key words and feelings of where I need to be to be correct. It still doesn't feel right to me, but the horse is going MUCH better. Yesterday, he started to fall into the right. For several seconds, I rode his face and delt with it the old way - then the DUH moment happened, I ran through the key words and feelings - you will laugh at these ("Scooch" the left seat bone toward the middle of the saddle - I sit heavier on the right and this evens me up. Knife in the left side - Crazy, but if I carry my left side like I have a runner's stich. I lift the right side. When I "lift" my shoulders, the left is always higher and it follows. The right is shorter, collapsed and leads so, knife in the left side brings my shoulders level and square - this will change w/ time, but for now, it's working. Finally weight in the right elbow. I go "soft" as in useless with my right arm and cock my wrist when the right rein is the outside rein. Weight in the elbow completely eliminates this behavior.

I had some of the most amazing trot work. He came straight and boyant. He was in self carriage. It all came together when I was straight, and all of this time I thought I already was. . .
I will work on myself much more than my horse in the future. It starts w/ the rider.

[subk]

findeight excellent post, you may be from Hunterland, but I sure wish you would post here more often!

I will add that sometimes if you will focus on the shoulders more predominately than the hind end it helps. It is possible to be popping a shoulder and getting it so cattywhumpas that the horse is physically incapable of moving the hindquarters over. Also in the training scale "forward" comes before "straight." I'm not sure it is possible to get a horse who is so backed up that they are cantering in place straight. Forward First.

[Catalina]

Wow, a lot of good advice :D!

Yes, I ride crooked :o. My trainer has been working really hard to straighten me out and I have discovered that it really does affect my horses. I tend to collapse on the right side and move my seat bone forward. I have noticed that Mark is much better when I move my hip back, so it is affecting him :(.

I need to have the chiro come out again; he got much better after the last treatment, but it has been a month+ since then and I have increased the straightness demands and his work load. I will also try the bute. His left hind definitely is an issue; it is the one he was stepping short with before his last chiro adjustment. Saddle fit isn't a problem; I just had the saddle fitter out a couple of weeks ago.

[Catalina]

I'm not sure it is possible to get a horse who is so backed up that they are cantering in place straight. Forward First.

This has been a HUGE issue with him. When a bought him a few months ago, he had no forward at all; it was all up and down. He has gotten much, much better and is actually moving nicely forward at all gaits. The cantering in place and sucking back occurs when he gets really frustrated and balky. I can ride through it and get him forward again, but we regress 10 steps back and I have to start all over again to get him to relax :sigh:.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

also...ask a bit less. You will NOT fix it all at once. Getting stuck in the canter...go back to the walk. Go back to the trot....and only ask for a few strides at the canter...he gives it to you...do a transition BEFORE you lose it...and big pats....rinse and repeat. Sometimes we start battling and creating tension. RELAXATION is key, then forward....if you lose that, it doesn't matter if you are "straight". You need to all of it. So if he is struggling so much that he is cantering in place....you are asking for more than he is currently cabable of giving.

[evans36]

OK - my ex-racer does that too. He does the same thing I see racers doing as they jig along. And he can go VERY forward while doing it. Anyone have any advice about how to push him out of it? he has a tendency to lean on the shoulder, and I'm sitting up, deep, half halting, inside leg-->outside rein, etc. Anyone have a fix for catching the shoulder on a horse that is quite rudimentary with lateral work and is a little bit thickheadded for lateral aids?

Second question - I know my guy is weaker to the left, chiro has been doing regular adjustments since January, with injectable glucosamine, and he's a different horse. Which is awesome. But how do I go about strengthening the weak side? Just by making him use it? It's really hard for him to pick up the left lead, so I haven't really picked that fight - we do an x and then come down to the left, and he'll canter for a while and through the curves. How far to push it? How to know when you're pushing it too far?

[Jleegriffith]

Evans- using the small x-rail or poles on the ground to help them pick up the leads is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. A lot of times they just get stronger as they go and you just have to take the time to get them even on both sides. I love trail riding, cavaletti's, low jumps, hills and all the other good strengthening work to get them strong. Nice long and low dressage work always has a place in the routine.

[findeight]

The jigging almost in place and sticky, almost backwards canter are/is impulsion that is created but has no place to go. So it backs up behind the bridle like a clogged drain and goes every which way.

Just watching over the years, have seen so many backed up behind the bridle and going crooked everyplace from WP to the post parade at the track. Pretty common.

I just read something on another thread, "stop riding their face" or some such and it hit me as making alot of sense. Ride the horse forward, don't pull the face back/sideways/down.

I know with my own that were like this, they had all been forced early and one was a draw rein queen that could suck back and sulk with the best of them.

Getting rid of it just takes time and proper riding. And, again, get the heck out of the ring and go someplace, especially if you are trying to strengthen or correct a weaker side. Trot. Works both sides equally and you don't have to do anything-they cannot get into too much trouble off those diagonal strides either, hard to buck or suck back and spin/spook. Easier to stop too;).

Go find a big field or some trails. That sulky mare of mine, took her out on about 90 acres of rolling country and stayed out there for an entire summer. Trotted the fence line. Trotted up, down and across the little hills. Moved to canter, did same thing. Moved to gallop, did lead changes with no rail within a half mile and no direction change, jumped the little gullies. No futher crooked issues and very little suck back and sulk.

[mjedge808]

How often do you ride out of the ring? If you rule out pain, try a trail ride with some long straight paths or long (un-holey) pastures. Do walk and trot casually. When you canter, just concentrate on looking ahead and getting him forward, whether he's a little crooked or not. Maybe try a hand gallop or at least a half seat and just let him pick the pace. Don't try for a frame, have soft following hands, just let him canter as long as you have straight. Canter 'til you're both bored silly (but not so that he's sore of course).

I did work like this with my OTTB and not only did it help him go forward without running in the gait, he could relax into the canter since I wasn't bugging him. A few sessions of this and I was able to ask for more at the canter, a little more softness, a little more straightness. It was a great refresher for him mentally when he'd get bunched up and tight, fighting me instead of working with me.

Just my opinion, but it worked for my guy.

[mjedge808]

Go find a big field or some trails. That sulky mare of mine, took her out on about 90 acres of rolling country and stayed out there for an entire summer. Trotted the fence line. Trotted up, down and across the little hills. Moved to canter, did same thing. Moved to gallop, did lead changes with no rail within a half mile and no direction change, jumped the little gullies. No futher crooked issues and very little suck back and sulk. Exactly

[evans36]

We ride more out of the ring than we do in the ring. I usually do all our flatwork in the field, and some of our jumping out there too, with only using the ring to practice fences or when we work the left lead where we have to have a small x to pick it up. He's 17.1 barefoot and has a pretty big stride, so I feel kindof cramped in the ring.

He can go forward (really forward - I mean, hand gallop) with the crooked neck, dropped shoulder at the same time. I come from the "kick them up into it" school too. Have tried the more forward, less face route and he still occasionally just does this. Doesn't seem like he's really unhappy when he does it, except that sometimes I think he would rather go back to the barn than work.

We're working on the balance, which is I think part of the problem with the heavy shoulder. The thing that is getting me is the fact that this horse can go pretty straight with his body and just hold his neck crooked. And when I try to pick up contact to put his neck back in line, I start to have the suck-back problems (not drastically, just less forward than I'd like). I just watched the Homestretch documentary (AWESOME, btw) and was looking at the horses on the hotwalker - he looks just like them, except that his head is not jacked up high.