Bit for a strong, tempermental horse?

[amastrike]

Does anyone have bit recommendations for a horse who gets strong (and who will, on occasion, flat out ignore the bit and run), but gets angry with too much force? A couple weeks ago, she was being terrible about just running through the bit and not listening at all. She was in a loose ring french link at the time. I rode her twice in a really fat twisted wire (very similar to a corkscrew). She was pissed, but got the point across and has been listening much better. The problem is, when she gets mad about me telling her to listen, she throws her head in the air and flings it side to side and sticks her tongue out. Very unattractive. It doesn't interfere with riding her, it's just incredibly irritating, and I don't want her to be too busy throwing a tantrum to pay attention to what we're doing. She mostly does it either approaching a jump or when we're done and I'm stopping her.

She goes decently in a slow twist. I tried her in a hackamore today. She didn't do the head-shaking thing, but she didn't appreciate the curb chain. I tried a bit like this (http://www.bohtack.com/proddetail.asp?prod=HappyM_RevLoopRngGag_465284) (but the mouth was plain and single-jointed), which she listened to but didn't appreciate.

I don't want to bit her up and would like to avoid harsh bits (like the twisted wire, which was only used as an emergency intervention)... I just want a bit that she'll listen to without getting mad. And yes, I'm working on the training part of it, too. She's come a long way from when I started riding her less than two years ago, to the point that she's almost unrecognizable. But this throwing a tantrum when she has to listen is just ridiculous. Silly chestnut Thoroughbred mare :rolleyes:.

Not expecting there to be a magic bit that will solve all of our problems, but I'm hoping there's something out there she'll not hate. Would a shadowroll help? I'm thinking maybe if she can't see when she throws her head around, she might be less inclined to do it.

[caevent]

What worked for my horse was to keep the mild bit (in this case, a fat double-jointed kk) and add a running martingale. Takes away their ability to throw their head every which way, so the bit stays effective without causing pain. I find this to be much better for the temperamental mares rather than "offending" them with more force. ;)

[amastrike]

I do use a running martingale.. she still manages an impressive amount of head-flinging :lol:.

Mares are God's way of punishing us for riding horses :lol:.

[NZEVNTR]

I use a full cheek myler with a ported mouth. When I bought my horse, he was ridden in a big fat loose ring bit and every once in awhile he'd throw his head and get angry with contact. Once I switched to the myler, he never did it again... We did try a lot of other bits and he equally hated them all. With him, it was all about the shape of his mouth and the way the bits actually sat in his mouth...he just wasn't comfortable.

[hunterqueen]

Sent you a pm. I have some 5 inch bits you are welcome to try out and see if they work! As a matter of fact, that offer is open to everyone because they are just sitting around at this point and maybe someone can use them. I am now currently horseless. You name it, I probably have it!

[mvp]

Take what I say with a grain of salt. So I'll give you some intro first.

I'm a smart redneck who will do lots to get the job done. I like a broke horse. I like to think. I like them to think. They can. We just need to set up a very clear "If/Then" statement for them and then just let 'em choose and work it out. A little tough with a Chestnut TB mare, I know.

So, my ideas. If she grabs the bit and runs, try something really, really unstable like a Waterford so she knows there's nothing safe, predictable or comfortable to lean on or meet when she'd like to do that. Don't see-saw with this bit.

For the purposes of correcting this problem, ride here with a small drape in your reins when she's good. Don't keep a constant contact, but use more pressure and the timing of your release to make a point.

The redneck extreme- If she were mine, I'd get mad at her when she had a tantrum. So you are cruising along with that drape. You pick up some contact because you want something different. She gets mad. You don't take more, but keep the same feel of her mouth, sit down, growl, and even kick her forward if you have to. When she stops shaking her head and softens even the tiniest bit, put the drape back in your reins, pet her on the neck and go back to cruising. Nota bene-- I would not pull harder. I would not kick and pull at the same time if I thought I might create a rear.

Or you can do the dressage/"doing calculus" version: She gets that cruise-with a drape when she's good. When she says now, she's asked to bend, turn on the fore-hand, or something hard that demands a change in her balance and breaks the back-to-front straightness that a pulling horse can use to resist your hand. When she bends and softens in both directions, you go back to cruising.

What do you think?

[sch1star]

I will second on the Myler. My TB isn't a headshaker but he can get run-through-the-bit strong jumping, particularly if the fences are small. I did a clinic with Lucinda Green the week prior to our first Prelim and he was flinging himself through her little arrowhead exercise so she got out the famous Lucinda Bag o Bits. I was breathing a huge inner sigh of relief to get help with this from a world reknowned rider but absolutely nothing in the bag worked that day.

It was either figure something out fast or scratch P, so in desperation I got on the Internet and ended up reading about the Mylers. I ordered one of their pelhams and it came in time for the event. I figured I would try it in the warmup and if he objected and was behaving badly I'd withdraw. Well Lo and Behold. Whole new horse. After xc the jump judge at the down steps actually told me my horse was one of the politest through there! What a change, I was more used to the point-and-whisper...

To this day I only use the bit at events, clinics, big jump lessons - away stuff. It seems to help keep him fresh to it and he still loves it. The only hard part was learning to manage the 4 reins on xc.

It can be trial and error but there are lots of options out there - good luck!

[Jazzy Lady]

I'd try a waterford as well. I used to use a loose ring waterford on a sweet boy who was very strong. He was like a little lamb in the bit and i was able to be very soft with him, and he loved it.

The other thing you could try is a different noseband.

[purplnurpl]

I would not use a bit with leverage. Personally I don't like the feel of leverage bits when running and jumping.

But a running martingale and maybe try something like a cherry roller?
Mark Todd used one on Charisma. : )

http://www.brumbysaddlery.com/korst-loose-ring-cherry-roller-5.html?js=n

This allows you to use a snaffle, if your horse prefers less bit, and the cherry rolls keep them from grabbing the bit and running but still giving the rider a solid feel unlike the Dusberry (sp?) that is all loopy feeling in the hand.

(when I talk about feel of the bit I mean the feel the rider has while the bit is in the hrose's mouth)

[acking01]

I have a strong, tempermental mare as well. Thankfully not a chesnut, as I'm sure at this point I'd be dead!! ;) I just recently tried this combo on my mare.

http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=324&zenid=72bd37d587d387aed65d6c9e6dd3cc6d in addition to http://www.horseloverz.com/Korsteel-Flexi-Mullen-Mouth-Loose-Ring-Snaffle-pr-243896.html

Now this isn't the end all be all cure for my horse.... BUT I have to admit she is much easier to ride now. When you pull back on the reins the noseband actually comes into play before the bit does. It is almost like riding your horse in a halter with a bit as well. My mare in particular is very offended by bits pulling on her dainty ,sensitive mouth, so she was very pleased with the nose pressure. There is absolutely no leverage with this noseband so don't be turned off by it.

I linked that site in the UK because the kineton there is about $50 CHEAPER than the ones you find at 123tack or horseloverz. It does run a touch big though, so if your mare is not a giant I would definitely go with the cob size. My mare is a dainty 15hh and the cob is a bit large on her. I am sure if it actually fit correctly she would be a dream. Wishful thinking, I'm sure.

Anyway, best of luck with your mare and let us know if you find something that works!!

ETA: The Flexi flavor bit is thinner than the happy mouth mullen. It is also more flexible and has a slight arch for tongue room.

[LR1976]

Silly chestnut Thoroughbred mare :rolleyes:.
.

There in lies your problem. :yes:

[evans36]

To be a bit radical, the best thing that has worked for my temperamental and sometimes hot horse is to go gentler. Good for you for trying the hackamore. I would say to try a bit that gives very little tongue pressure, and to make sure that you're not keeping a steady hold on the bit and giving her something to get pissed at with your hands. Also I have found that the myler combination bit is pretty cool - it's a cross between a regular bit and a hackamore basically. There isn't really a curb, although the noseband does give nose pressure and poll pressure from the headstall when you activate the bit. Your mare might respond better to smaller amounts of pressure in different places rather than all at one place. These bits look a little crazy, but IME they work. The best thing I've seen with temperamental horses is to give them no reason to get worked up or angry about pain or pressure. Tongue pressure impedes the ability to breathe in some cases, so that often makes a nervous horse more explosive. IMO the ultimate goal is not to contain the explosion, but to get rid of the reason for it so that the horse can focus on doing what you want/need.

[twofatponies]

Take what I say with a grain of salt. So I'll give you some intro first.

I'm a smart redneck who will do lots to get the job done. I like a broke horse. I like to think. I like them to think. They can. We just need to set up a very clear "If/Then" statement for them and then just let 'em choose and work it out. A little tough with a Chestnut TB mare, I know.

So, my ideas. If she grabs the bit and runs, try something really, really unstable like a Waterford so she knows there's nothing safe, predictable or comfortable to lean on or meet when she'd like to do that. Don't see-saw with this bit.

For the purposes of correcting this problem, ride here with a small drape in your reins when she's good. Don't keep a constant contact, but use more pressure and the timing of your release to make a point.

The redneck extreme- If she were mine, I'd get mad at her when she had a tantrum. So you are cruising along with that drape. You pick up some contact because you want something different. She gets mad. You don't take more, but keep the same feel of her mouth, sit down, growl, and even kick her forward if you have to. When she stops shaking her head and softens even the tiniest bit, put the drape back in your reins, pet her on the neck and go back to cruising. Nota bene-- I would not pull harder. I would not kick and pull at the same time if I thought I might create a rear.

Or you can do the dressage/"doing calculus" version: She gets that cruise-with a drape when she's good. When she says now, she's asked to bend, turn on the fore-hand, or something hard that demands a change in her balance and breaks the back-to-front straightness that a pulling horse can use to resist your hand. When she bends and softens in both directions, you go back to cruising.

What do you think?

This general approach has helped me tons when my mare went through a phase of wanting to go go go without listening to me. Two thumbs up!

[broodmare]

i went to a myler lecture last week given by Dale Myler, and I think those guys might be really on to something about some horses really resenting tongue pressure. I have been afraid of their combi hackamore bit until spending some time listenning to and talking with Dale.
I also have a young horse with bitting issues and I amgoing to try that next. They look pretty wild but he assured me that they pretty much start all their young stock in the combi.
Dale gives mounted clinics for folks with bitting problems. If I haven't solved my problem by the time one comes around, I might try one. Dale does the "aw shucks ma'm" cowboy thing pretty well, but I suspect he is a pretty good horseman to boot.

[deltawave]

I am a die-hard snaffle Nazi who ABSOLUTELY LOVES the Myler Combination bit. LOVE it. My young horse will pitch a fit if a bit is pinching, pulling, or otherwise disturbing her tongue/lips. This bit keeps her Q-U-I-E-T in the mouth, polite, and is just "there" if I need it to apply a little leverage to her nose if she gets to pulling. 95% of the time, it behaves like the snaffle it is. :yes:

[Foxtrot's]

I was also raised with the "only thing a real horseman needs in his tackroom is a selection of snaffle bits".

I also have been to a Myler clinic. And I have a sensitive TB mare. With her it is a case of less is more and allowing tongue and palet freedom. Out hunting I tried bitting her up with a kimberwick - BIG mistake, she was so unpleasant and hauled me all over the place with her head between her knees. I used a different bit for schooling so switching for "the day" gives her a fresh mouth. I have also used a running martingale and a full cheek.

A lot of my schooling went into elasticity - bigger and slower gaits, more forward, more collected to improve adjustability. But when she had it in her mind to be excited, a lot of that went out the window. Improved my abs, though.

Another horse I used a gag on out hunting - a big l7.1 hh TB. One big haul on that first thing and he slipped along quietly for the rest of the day.

BTW: Please quit that chestnut mare stereotype - this mare's mother was chestnut and an angel compared to Mrs Hotshot, the grey. She's retired as I am now.

[BarbB]

I had a head flinger who really liked a rubber gag. I had people ask me if he needed that much bit and most of the time he didn't, but he liked it better than any of the probably 20 other bits I tried.

[Xanthoria]

My chestnut TB hates a curb chain too - I put a rubber cover on it and he's fine. You might try that if you need to use a curb again.

[lizajane09]

I'm with BarbB on the gag - I was also at a clinic with Lucinda Green a few years ago and at the time had my large (bay) Thoroughbred mare in a three-ring bubble bit. The mare absolutely plowed through my hand when she saw a fence anywhere, so Lucinda tried a couple of different bits for us and a rubber-mouthed gag/running martingale turned out to be an excellent combination. It allows me to be light with my hands most of the time, but when she tries to head off into the next county I can sit her on her butt (bearing in mind that I'm 5'4" and she's 17 hands) and remind her that listening to her rider is in fact a requirement. The running martingale takes care of most of the head-flinging that sometimes comes along in response to that reminder.

[amastrike]

Thanks for all the input and ideas, everyone! We have an event coming up on the 23rd, so I'm hoping I can find something better than the slow twist before then. I won't die on xc if I don't get a better bit, but it'd be nice (we're doing BN, so it's not like it's super hard).

Gags... I'm assuming you mean the one with the sliding cheeks? My mare is an uber-bitch... is a gag likely to make her mad? Note that pretty much anything that involves her not being allowed to do whatever she wants makes her mad :lol:.

I'm very interested in the Mylers and will be trying one (thanks, hunterqueen!).

I'm also going to go back to serious bribing.. If she takes a fence nicely and stops without throwing a tantrum, she gets a cookie. mvp, I like the redneck style, but I don't think it'll over well with my mare. She just does NOT tolerate her rider getting after her.. obviously if she were doing something dangerous, I'd do whatever it takes, but it's not that serious.

Foxtrot's... half the fun of having a chestnut Thoroughbred mare is playing with the chestnut Thoroughbred mare stereotype.

[BarbB]

Yes, the gag is the one with sliding cheeks. The rubber bit horses either love or hate. You can use two reins, one on the rings of the bit and you have a snaffle, one set connecting to the gag action. If you need more bit, you use the gag action and you get poll pressure...no curb chain. It is not a painful bit but it is a powerful one, ride with light hands. On a super sensitive horse I would lunge first with loose sidereins on the gag action, let her run into it a couple of times so it isn't a surprise.

[Edith in VT]

I've had good luck with a mild snaffle, such as a rubber mullen mouth, combined with a lever noseband. A Kineton noseband is also very effective on a puller. These more austere nosebands help control the jaw and prevent head shaking and twisting and allow you to use an inoffensive bit.

[retreadeventer]

Well....I have recommendation.... a flashlight? Have you looked in her mouth? Does she have ulcers on the roof or tongue? A bad tooth? A cut on the tongue?

[enjoytheride]

I would stick with the snaffle and up the dressage. If she's strong and tossing her head around you do serpentines, change direction, stop, start, walk 3 strides, canter 1/2 a circle with your hands down and quiet. Work her quiet and forward into the bridle and don't fight with her, if she fights with you keep your hands quiet, put your leg on, and do some changes of bend. Always keep your hands quiet, never fight back, and always do something different every 5 strides. Stop her with your seat. when she is round and quiet and working into the bit do some jumping with lots of poles before and after the fence, release big, stay off the saddle, then sit down quietly and ask her to stop with your seat. You might think you're going to die but if you're doing it right it will work. Lots and lots of dressage. If she's stupid at your show on the XC course circle her in random spots away from a fence, bring her to a trot, ask her to canter, bring her to a walk, halt and stand, etc.

[amastrike]

retreadeventer, she's eating fine and all that and she only gets snotty when I ask her to slow down and listen. It's not contact that bothers her, it's not being allowed to have her way. I have considered her mouth, but I'm pretty sure this isn't a physical thing.

[Bobthehorse]

So curb chains make her mad, and leverage makes her mad (I have a gelding like this, but he has taken a shine to me, so he doesnt get as dramatic as your mare).

How about combination bits, one that has a nosepiece? If she was good in the hackamore (minus curb chain) that might work. I dont have any experience with bits like this, but have been toying with the idea of trying a couple out.

Or, you could try a slow twist with a kineton noseband.

[CookiePony]

retreadeventer, she's eating fine and all that and she only gets snotty when I ask her to slow down and listen. It's not contact that bothers her, it's not being allowed to have her way. I have considered her mouth, but I'm pretty sure this isn't a physical thing.

Well... my trainer had a horse that was head flinging and eating fine, and she turned out to need a good bit of dental work. The head flinging stopped.

Why are you pretty sure this isn't physical? I'm not saying it necessarily is, but I'd want a thorough dental exam, a vet's lameness exam (including muscle palpations), and a saddle fit evaluation if my horse was exhibiting this behavior.

[Bobthehorse]

Its true, even when the vet checks teeth, they often cant feel way back where they get the sharpest. The only way to know for sure if a horse needs their teeth done is to tranq them and take a good look back there.

[FlashGordon]

If her teeth have not been checked I would definitely have them done, ASAP.

I find that going soft and pushing them forward when they start the head flinging seems to work better than bracing against them.

I'd definitely be riding her in a waterford or a french link or something unstable that she cannot lean on, as MVP said.

Biting her up probably won't get you far in the long run. I know several horses who were in the same situation, riders just kept switching bits, corkscrews and gags etc, yes it did the trick short term in some instances but did nothing for the longterm...

[amastrike]

I'm already planning on having her teeth done next time the vet comes out. Unfortunately, they're super busy right now and it'll be at least a couple of weeks. She's *always* done the head flinging, even right after her teeth have been done. So while I'm not saying it's absolutely 100% not physical, I find it very very unlikely as it's not a new behavior and it's only under certain circumstances.

[Foxtrot's]

Kineton noseband - hmmm - I used to hunt a tough little Standardbred in one and it did the trick for her because she was not the super sensitive sort. The thing with the Kineton is that when the reins are pulled, the metal part of the noseband squeezes the cheeks as well as putting pressure on the nose. Some horses just curl up in it.
You would have to try it

[magicteetango]

My mares are both even tempered even if the older one gets a little quick. But when my mare has anything ouchy she will head toss. A saddle pad too fluffly, her bridlepath bothering her if its not been done, anything. Minute its fixed she is back to her normal Miss Perfect self. I would look at the physical.

Aside from that, take her xc schooling and don't jump everything. Circle in front, jump it and turn around and halt at it, get her listening not anticipating. Just a suggestion, eventually you will run out of bits. They're a piece of equipment, not an attitude adjustment.

[lilypondlane]

I second (or third or fourth) the Myler combination bit. My trainer uses a 2-ring on my 7-year event horse who can be very strong x-country. She had tried, among other things, a hackamore which was great for whoa, but useless for turning. The Myler combination gives you both.

[Lincoln]

Lincoln the horse has more than enough Bold Ruler in his pedigree to think that rider input is optional rather than mandatory. The Myler combination changed the equation for Stadium and XC, while the Myler snaffle was workable for Dressage and every day once the point had been made with the combination.

Good luck!

[lizajane09]

Lincoln the horse has more than enough Bold Ruler in his pedigree to think that rider input is optional rather than mandatory.

Good luck!

This sounds remarkably like my mare - except for her it's Man O'War instead of Bold Ruler!

And I second the idea about taking her schooling and circling in front of jumps, etc. One of the things my trainer and I did with my mare when I first got her and she was really, really bad about rushing was not "allowing" her to jump if she grabbed the bit and ran. If she bolted, she did a 10-meter circle. If she was polite, she got to jump. Also, setting up very tricky, twisty (low) courses, a la Lucinda Green, can help. Think rollbacks, bending lines, skinnies, angles, etc. If she doesn't know where she's going next, she HAS to start listening to you!

Checking out the physical is always a good idea, even if it doesn't seem like anything is obviously wrong, but there are certainly also horses that just have an attitude like this (in fact, with my mare it's when she gets too QUIET that I start thinking that there may be something physical going on, and am usually right).

[amastrike]

I'll look into the Myler combination bit... too bad they're so expensive! I did buy a gag with cheeks from eBay, which should come by Thursday. Maybe I'll get a Myler during VTO's summer sale.

Today we just walked and trotted over elevated poles. She's in serious heat right now :rolleyes:. Hopefully she gets over it before Saturday. She was being unusually tempermental, which is explained by being in heat. She's working on turning a gay gelding straight :lol:.

I wanted to have her back checked out last time the chiro came, but she came a day earlier than I had been told she was coming and no one bothered to tell me.

Just looked at her pedigree... she's got Bold Ruler and Man O War on her dam's side.

[thumbsontop]

Okay - here goes. We have a pony that has a very similar attitude. She's okay as long as she feels like you aren't telling her what to do, but the second you interfere she grabs the bits and pulls. Former lesson pony, very bitchy chestnut mare.

When we bought her she was in a double twisted wire snaffle (don't ask why we bought her anyway!). Me, being the know-it-all that I was, thought that we'll ditch the bit and use something mild. Training should be done, not bitting her up. Went to a plain copper full cheek and she did okay, but got very, very strong over courses - both sj and xc. She was honest as could be over fences, but didn't tolerate any contact. Tried a waterford, wonder bit, boucher, sprenger showjumping bit, hackamore (mechanical and jumping), slow twist, myler, hollow mouth, heavy, and thin snaffle, nathe, etc. Yes, we tried the kineton too. She was okay in dressage with the full cheek, and sometimes could do sj in it too. Full lameness evals, teeth checks, best chiro/acupuncture, saddlefitting, etc. Instructors agreed when they'd hop on that the pony just very clearly says NO. She would usually ride on the buckle fine.

3 years later, on a whim, I picked up a double twisted wire in and the pony was much happier. Not perfect, mind you. But she was comfortable with it. Go figure. And it was nice to be able to pull and release without her diving back into it and not having head tossing. Maybe it's because she had gone in it for so long before.

It was clear that we would never school the attitude out of this pony. That was a learning experience for me. Not all horses will just happily carry you over a course without complaint.

I would have been the first to lecture that you just needed to find the bit that makes the horse happy a few years ago and use training for compliance. Not so much anymore. Obviously training is necessary, but it depends on the sensitivity.

By the way, the 3 ring Sprenger showjumping bit was fabulous at first. I thought we had found a miracle cure. For 6 months it worked wonders and then she got REALLY upset with contact with that one.

Jumping hackamores are great. No curb. It's kind of intimidating though on a strong horse.

Don't forget to check for back or hock pain too. It could be the shift in balance that's caused her to decide contact is not for her.

Good luck. My point really is just to go with what works and don't be too hard on yourself if she does end up just needing something that's not your preference. I'd probably stick with the slow twist and use those redneck methods for now. :D

[QH99]

This weekend I saw this rider using a hackamore at an event, a pace. When the woman wasn't cranking down on it the horse seemed fine. Of course when the horse, a nice arab cross, didn't do exactly what she wanted she cranked down and spurred the horse till it did. Each time she did the horses mouth would open wide. I am not in favor of short cutting to get results, when some good training is all that is needed.

[amastrike]

QH99, I've been riding this horse for nearly two years, and until recently have only ridden her in extremely soft bits (loose ring french link and a double-jointed dee, both aurigan KK bits). I'm not in favor of using bits in place of training. I do not, however, have a problem with using bits in conjunction with training.

Tried a waterford this morning... no better, no worse. I did implement a new rule, however. Previously, when she'd get snotty and fling her head around, I'd have her halt and drop the reins and let her chill for a few seconds. Then it occurred to me--that's just teaching her that when she's a bitch, she gets to stop and take a break. Then I thought of mvp's redneck methods. New rule: she gets snotty with her head, she gets thrown in a tight circle and then we go right back to what we're doing. Then when she's good, she gets a cookie. So it would go something like this: trot, ask to walk, get snotty, circle, trot, walk nicely, cookie. The best was going over some poles.. she trotted them nicely, then got snotty when I asked her to stop. Threw her in a circle, and trotted the last pole. She stopped nicely when I asked :yes:.

Now I'm just hoping she gets the point without deciding to throw a tantrum because I'm *gasp* not letting her do whatever she wants.

[webmistress32]

we have a chestnut pony mare (triple threat) that we use for gaming.

she was not only running through the bits but really had high anxiety. we tried several things and finally put her on one of those hackamores with the short shanks. we replaced the curb chain with a leather strap.

now, she rides on a loose rein and listens almost 100% to the rider's position. we hardly have to touch the reins any more. and she walks and stretches down and forward neither of which she'd do in a bit.

sometimes, going softer is the answer. it seems counter intuitive but I've heard it work for others and it sure worked for us.

[QH99]

I do not, however, have a problem with using bits in conjunction with training.

Neither do I... Guess my caution more was that many think a hackamore is not a severe device, because there isn't anything in the horses mouth.

The woman in question also appeared to be riding on the edge, as if she was slightly fearful of the horse. There is a point where you can try to seek to much control.

[CrazyDog]

My strong, opinionated mare is lovely in a sweet iron wonder bit. It is basically a three ring gag, but with the shank curved rather than straight which I believe is meant to make it milder.

[Ray]

Gags... I'm assuming you mean the one with the sliding cheeks? My mare is an uber-bitch... is a gag likely to make her mad? Note that pretty much anything that involves her not being allowed to do whatever she wants makes her mad :lol:..

I hunt my opinionated mare in a gag. the biggest ring polo gag we could find. it made her mad at first, but I had to learn to not grip too much and to be as light as possible whenever I could. what helped us both was to bridge the reins and limit her ability to pull on me, not have me pull on her so much. Or if I did anything harsh, to release asap. After awhile,now, she will slow to voice+weight, what a delight! :D:D:D

[amastrike]

*sigh* I tried her in a pelham today. She started off SO well. Soft and quiet at the canter, listening and not getting rude when I asked her to trot.. Jumping she started off okay, and then she decided she hated it (probably because I *gasp* used the curb rein when she got strong) and was absolutely terrible.

We're showing Beginner Novice on Saturday. I have no idea how this is going to work. I'm going to call a tack store that I know carries Myler bits, I think they have a rental program. Maybe I can drive the hour there and rent a Myler combination bit and try it on her. And my gag came, so I'll try that on her tomorrow, too. Going back in a little while to ride her again, going to try another bit, a loose ring bit with bumps on it (I think I've seen it called a Swedish snaffle?). And my instructor is going to find her triangle bit, so I'll give that a shot. If worse comes to worst, I can ride her in the slow twist (or maybe try a corkscrew), which she goes sort of decently in..

On the bright side, she's only really bad with combinations, and I think the most complicated thing we'll have to do is one two-stride line in stadium.

[amastrike]

All of this may have been for naught.. went to ride the mare tonight, and she's lame :(. I'll be calling the farrier first thing in the morning to see if he can come out early and take a look at her. I'm crossing my fingers she took a funny step earlier and is just sore or something.. anything that will be better by Friday.

[Cheval Gris]

interesting I have the same problem with my horse...tried a happy mouth gag, tried light (which I think was better than heavy), tried a pelham, 3 ring elevator. His breaks are not so great, gets rushy and hates heavy bits. havent tried a hackamore or combo but trainer has suggested them among trying all these others. AND interesting enough, he has Bold Ruler and Man O War!!

[Parysa]

Update?

[WilfredLeblanc]

I had a half-lease Belgian/TB subject to bolting, and I found that a kimberwick took care of it. He'd run right through a snaffle bit, but the kimberwick would stop him in an instant.

[amastrike]

It's been a long time since I posted, and here's what we've found.

I was able to take her to the show back in May, and she was absolutely terrible. But we did an Intro HT in September and she was great, so hopefully we can try BN again next year.

And we've finally found a bit that she likes and listens to and has BRAKES in.. a loose ring wide barrel Myler :eek:. I never would have guessed that she would go so well in something so so soft, but she does. You can put a strong bit on her and she'll be great for about the first five minutes. Then she says "OMG, you're trying to CONTROL me!" and turns into an uber-bitch :rolleyes:. As much as it's tempting to throw a super-harsh bit on her, you just can't do it.. she's worse in a bit with a curb chain than she would be in a halter and lead rope. The loose ring Myler + running martingale = awesome. I rode her in that (with a figure 8) on our little intro XC course and she was wonderful.

And now, I've added one piece of equipment... a shadow roll. Love! It's the funniest thing, she'll be fussing and fidgeting when I go to put the bridle on, but as soon as the shadow roll goes into place, she settles right down, and we haven't had a single incident of head tossing since I started using it (knock on wood!). Best $9.95 I've ever spent.

It probably also helps that she's moved from a busy lesson barn where she was stalled most of the time and only turned out for an hour or two a day to being turned out 24/7. I had wondered about ulcers, as she was extremely sensitive around her girth area. Now that she's out all the time and eating nonstop, she's done almost a complete 180. (Well, she's no longer out 24/7.. she's in overnight because she needs to be separated from her boyfriend for a while.) Mare is a much much MUCH happier, more pleasant, and easier to work with horse.

So, in summary... lots of turnout, lots of forage, soft bit, running martingale, and a shadow roll have all brought about a big change in my mare.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Glad you found something that works for her. Getting upset at harsh bits is why I have seen the gags work so well. They are just relatively fat snaffles, but that little bit of lift does amazing things. The gag that is best is on a leather cheek piece, not the nylon one. The leather (kind of rolled) will slide, but not with light pressure, so for the most part, you ride with just a plain snaffle. When they pull, it slides a bit.

[Xanthoria]

More turnout, less grain, eh? If only more people would think of that instead of punishing their frustrated horses with harsher bits!

[amastrike]

Fairview, I tried a gag with leather cheeks. Big surprise, she hated it. Pretty much the only thing she tolerates is a mild snaffle.

She's changed so much that it's hard to tell she's the same horse. She LOVES her turnout and eats nonstop. It's pretty impressive, actually.

Tomorrow we're getting a ground driving lesson from a local person who is apparently a very good trainer, so that will be fun. Hopefully she can manage to not live up to the chestnut Thoroughbred mare stereotype for once in her life :lol:.

[eventingismylife]

What jumped out at me when you said that she didnt toss her head as much when you tryed the martigale is that you need to probably have her teeth looked at. I also would have your saddle checked by a saddle fitter or someone of the same caliber. Both of these things can readily make a horse toss their head and act like a moron. Hope I helped. :) Hope you can find a bit!

[Rescue_Rider9]

I have had a lot of luck with my mare in a simple D-ring, but using more leg. Any time she starts to get fussy (which used to be a lot) I would keep my hands the same, asking the same thing as before, but apply more leg! The leg makes her go and she eventually gets that its easier to just do what I am asking.. I hope I made what I am talking about clear.. i am bad at explaining this kind of stuff. hahaha

[amastrike]

The bit issue has pretty much been solved, Eventingismylife and Rescue_Rider, but thank you :). Her teeth weren't too bad when they got done last month.

We got a lesson in ground driving/long lining today, and she was so good. We're getting groundwork lessons for the next month, so I think that'll do both of us a lot of good.