2 sets of reins, 1 bit- legal for prelim dressage?!

[Liebe-ist-Krieg]

So i generally ride in a plain loose ring snaffle with two sets of reins for jumping and dressage. I'm fairly certain that this is legal for jumping, but I have been perusing the rulebook and i can't find anything pertaining to the use of 2 sets of reins with one bit at the preliminary level. I'm going to chatt hills champs this weekend, and i figure i should go ask once im at the event just to be sure, but if anyone one could tell me that it is outright illegal that would be great!
thanks in advance

[flutie1]

So i generally ride in a plain loose ring snaffle with two sets of reins for jumping and dressage. I'm fairly certain that this is legal for jumping, but I have been perusing the rulebook and i can't find anything pertaining to the use of 2 sets of reins with one bit at the preliminary level. I'm going to chatt hills champs this weekend, and i figure i should go ask once im at the event just to be sure, but if anyone one could tell me that it is outright illegal that would be great!
thanks in advance

Just curious - why do you do that?

[tx3dayeventer]

I am going to ask an honest question...

Why do you ride with two sets of reins on a loose ring snaffle?

What is the benefit?

FLUTIE: I guess we posted at the same time :D

[Eventer5]

Yeah im curious too, has that been legal at any level? Ive never seen that mentioned in any rule books.

[Janet]

I can't find anything that explicitly says it is illegal. But you could certainly argue that "snaffle bridlle" implicitly means "one set of reins".

I'd definitely check with both the TD and the judge /Pres of GJ first.

What is the reason?

[Liebe-ist-Krieg]

alright, thanks, i will just go ahead and do that after i check in tommorow.i'd much rather take of the rein that get eliminated!
hmm. well for some reason it just seems to help me be a lot softer and steadier in my hands... my trainer likes me to ride one of his horses in draw reins, and i have also ridden some of his UL dressage horse in a double bridle, and i noticed that i rode much more like a "dressage" rider when i used 2 reins. up, together, and really not much involved with what my horse is doing. it may all be in my head, but it seems to help. its NOT to allow me to pull stronger, which is another reason i have heard some people use 2 reins.
basically i just ride more like i would if i was actually using a double bridle.

[flutie1]

alright, thanks, i will just go ahead and do that after i check in tommorow.i'd much rather take of the rein that get eliminated!
hmm. well for some reason it just seems to help me be a lot softer and steadier in my hands... my trainer likes me to ride one of his horses in draw reins, and i have also ridden some of his UL dressage horse in a double bridle, and i noticed that i rode much more like a "dressage" rider when i used 2 reins. up, together, and really not much involved with what my horse is doing. it may all be in my head, but it seems to help. its NOT to allow me to pull stronger, which is another reason i have heard some people use 2 reins.
basically i just ride more like i would if i was actually using a double bridle.

Whatever works for you. I always pulled my left boot on first!

[gchildean]

considering that double bridles aren't legal for prelim, I doubt that this is.

[ideayoda]

It's not legal.

[mbdobbs]

This might sound completely out of left field ... but, since the reason you use two sets of reins is almost all in your head, because you like the way it feels (hey, if wearing pink underwear makes you ride better, then wear pink underwear), then maybe you could use some sort of "dummy" reins, like, say, putting a breastplate on and holding on to it, or some kind of grab strap gizmo .... of course check with the TD and ground jury if you're adding on some kind of strange tack. My point is, you might be able to reproduce the feel that makes you ride better without doing something illegal.

Good luck

Melissa

[purplnurpl]

I was going to say the same thing.

Dressage Extensions has those rein aid thingys that are for the benefit of not allowing your fingers to slip.
It would give you the feeling of holding two reins--?

[Janet]

I was going to say the same thing.

Dressage Extensions has those rein aid thingys that are for the benefit of not allowing your fingers to slip.
It would give you the feeling of holding two reins--?
The rules DO state that "loops" and "hand attachments" are not allowed. I am not sure if your "rein aid thingys that are for the benefit of not allowing your fingers to slip" would be considered "loops" or "hand attachments".

[Shrunk "N" Da Wash]

Hmm... I wouldn't try it. I think you could get more marks with you riding without the second rein because the impression it would give the judge when you head up centerline with 2 reins on a snaffle, wouldn't be the best IMO. Anyways I'm with Janet you could argue that a snaffle bridle means only 1 rein.

[Bobthehorse]

Hmm... I wouldn't try it. I think you could get more marks with you riding without the second rein because the impression it would give the judge when you head up centerline with 2 reins on a snaffle, wouldn't be the best IMO.

If the tack is legal (IF the tack is legal), the judges wont give or take marks away based on the tack. Thats like saying someone would get marked down for riding in a drop noseband because the impression would be that the horse is not as soft as a horse who goes in a cavesson.

[retreadeventer]

Ideayoda is right. Not legal.
Nothing between rein and bit. Not even another set of reins.

[Gry2Yng]

If the tack is legal (IF the tack is legal), the judges wont give or take marks away based on the tack. Thats like saying someone would get marked down for riding in a drop noseband because the impression would be that the horse is not as soft as a horse who goes in a cavesson.

Yes, but...(sorry l-ist-k) a drop noseband has some affect. I can only imagine the judges thoughts when he/she sees two reins on a loose ring snaffle.

L-ist-k,
The fact that you *think* it is the two reins that makes a double bridle stronger than an snaffle makes me think that you need to talk to your trainer about how bits work. Please take this in the spirit I intend it - to be helpful and educational. A full bridle has two sets of reins and two bits. One set of reins is attached to a CURB bit. *Some* riders use the curb for control rather than its intended purpose. You do not gain additional control by attaching another set of reins to a loose ring snaffle. You couldn't apply more force to the horse's mouth just by putting on another set of reins. Pelham, kimberwicke and gag bits can be used with two sets of reins, but each set is attached at a different point on the bit, creating a different effect on the horse's mouth or pole depending on which rein is used.

Draw reins are attached to the girth, also creating a different effect than the snaffle rein. There are plenty of people on this board who can help with your education on this topic, but a good trainer is probably your best source.

[eventer80]

Nancy Lindsey's daughter used to compete Prelim in the late '90's with the exact same set up. Her horse was a puller and she said it helped her with him. So you are not the only one. I think I also read Blyth Tait talking about doing this as well.

ETA: She used the 2 reins on cross country only.

[2LaZ2race]

Nancy Lindsey's daughter used to compete Prelim in the late '90's with the exact same set up. Her horse was a puller and she said it helped her with him. So you are not the only one. I think I also read Blyth Tait talking about doing this as well.

ETA: She used the 2 reins on cross country only.

The only way I can figure 2 reins on a loose ring would help with control is that the top rein (i'm talking about where it attaches to the bit) would almost become fixed because of the other rein below it now allowing it to move in the loose ring. If that's the case why wouldn't you just use any of the other bits that mimic this action?

[vbunny]

Maybe it's the increased size of rein in your hand? It is significantly easier to ride a puller in race reins than it is in show reins. Maybe try a set of those instead? They are huge and take getting used to but really do work.

[Shrunk "N" Da Wash]

Yes, but...(sorry l-ist-k) a drop noseband has some affect. I can only imagine the judges thoughts when he/she sees two reins on a loose ring snaffle.

L-ist-k,
The fact that you *think* it is the two reins that makes a double bridle stronger than an snaffle makes me think that you need to talk to your trainer about how bits work. Please take this in the spirit I intend it - to be helpful and educational. A full bridle has two sets of reins and two bits. One set of reins is attached to a CURB bit. *Some* riders use the curb for control rather than its intended purpose. You do not gain additional control by attaching another set of reins to a loose ring snaffle. You couldn't apply more force to the horse's mouth just by putting on another set of reins. Pelham, kimberwicke and gag bits can be used with two sets of reins, but each set is attached at a different point on the bit, creating a different effect on the horse's mouth or pole depending on which rein is used.

Draw reins are attached to the girth, also creating a different effect than the snaffle rein. There are plenty of people on this board who can help with your education on this topic, but a good trainer is probably your best source.

Thank-You :yes:

[EventMore]

If I find myself getting too busy with my reins (or getting sloppy with my position) in dressage I pick up a bridge. Single or double - both work fine. Gives me a bunch more stuff in my hands so they stay more open, and prevents me from being too active since one hand then pulls on the other. Basically makes me more conscious of what I'm doing and prevents me from widening and/or dropping my hands. Might address some of the issues that two reins do for you. Free and legal.

[Liebe-ist-Krieg]

L-ist-k,
The fact that you *think* it is the two reins that makes a double bridle stronger than an snaffle makes me think that you need to talk to your trainer about how bits work. Please take this in the spirit I intend it - to be helpful and educational. A full bridle has two sets of reins and two bits. One set of reins is attached to a CURB bit. *Some* riders use the curb for control rather than its intended purpose. You do not gain additional control by attaching another set of reins to a loose ring snaffle. You couldn't apply more force to the horse's mouth just by putting on another set of reins. Pelham, kimberwicke and gag bits can be used with two sets of reins, but each set is attached at a different point on the bit, creating a different effect on the horse's mouth or pole depending on which rein is used.

Draw reins are attached to the girth, also creating a different effect than the snaffle rein. There are plenty of people on this board who can help with your education on this topic, but a good trainer is probably your best source.
Thanks for the concern, but i do understand that a double bridle and draw reins are completely different animals than my set up. However, try attaching 2 reins to something and pulling, then try it with one rein, it feels easier to pull with 2, something about having more to hold onto. This is not why I do it, but I do know some people that use it on horses that get hot, they feel that they can give a stronger half-halt with out upgrading to a stronger bit (not a double bridle in any case however) I certainly don't think that 2 reins makes a double bridle stronger (or rather that the purpose of a double bridle is to be stronger or provide more control), and i wouldn't try and use one to have more control, i always understood the curb to be fine-tuning mechanism for more advanced horses.I know the draw reins were different as well, but i was commenting purely on my ability to hold my hands steadier (seemingly)with 2 sets (although i think this had something to do with the horse as well).
Anyways, I think you just misunderstood my statement. I really just use it to steady my hands.
Yes, the TD did tell me it was illegal, would anyone like to explain why exactly? Its not a big deal, I'm just curious
We survived dressage with out it ;), i can handle a 37 in PR-CH :)

[Liebe-ist-Krieg]

If I find myself getting too busy with my reins (or getting sloppy with my position) in dressage I pick up a bridge. Single or double - both work fine. Gives me a bunch more stuff in my hands so they stay more open, and prevents me from being too active since one hand then pulls on the other. Basically makes me more conscious of what I'm doing and prevents me from widening and/or dropping my hands. Might address some of the issues that two reins do for you. Free and legal.

i've done that a few times, another thing i like to do is just "rest" my hand on the fleece part of my mattes pad that comes up in front of my saddle fairly high

[Bobthehorse]

This is not why I do it, but I do know some people that use it on horses that get hot, they feel that they can give a stronger half-halt with out upgrading to a stronger bit

Do these people know that half halts arent achieved by pulling harder or having stronger hands?

[Liebe-ist-Krieg]

probably not, they are mostly greenies, i think its a pyschological thing for them.