Trot Sets - What? How? Why?

[00Jumper]

So I will preface this post by saying that I learned to ride in hunterland, and have moved on to jumperland. I love watching eventing, but am way too chicken to do it - I like it when the fences fall down when I inevitably make a mistake and park my horse at them and she - God bless her heart - jumps anyway. That said, I read a lot about "trot sets" in eventing, but I can't find anywhere that specifies exactly what they are.

My horse is a small WB mare who is incredibly lazy. As happens with this kind of horse, it's tough to get her fit - she would much rather just walk, regardless of whatever I am doing on her back (kicking, tapping with the crop, spurs, squeezing for all I'm worth, openly weeping and pleading with her, etc.). Outside the ring, though, she's very happy to go forward. So to get her fitness up last summer I started taking her on "trot rides," which is when I trot her around the trails on the property for 30-45 minutes. She's always happy to do them and has her ears up the whole time, even when she's puffing or spooking at things like wildlife or plants. Best yet, they seemed to work for her CV fitness and she actually seemed to have more energy when she was fit (of course then winter came and here we are again . . .)

But I'm pretty sure my little trots through the woods are not a real trot set - so what is? Why do eventers do trot sets - is it solely CV fitness or is there a physical condition aspect to it too? And finally, if I wanted to gain all the trot set benefits, how would I do it?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

There are a lot of different schools of thought on trot sets. Eventing people use the term "trot sets" generally to mean trotting done purely to condition their horses. Physically, you want your horse round in their top line, with their back up and really moving from behind. This might require a dressage whip on some of the more lazy horses. I personally like shorter sets....such as 3 five sets with 2 minutes of walk in between. So you trot for 5 minutes, forward walk of 2 minutes, trot for 5 minutes etc. And lots and lots of hills. I've never found the need for purposely long "trot sets" but do work longer when doing dressage schools. Other people will do longer sets....such as 10-20 minutes of straight trot. That is where there are a lot of different schools of thought. Although when I trot out on the trails....I'm usually not as focused on the time that I'm trotting but more on how my horse feels and the terrain. I don't usually trot down steep hills or in bad footing.

[Blugal]

I agree with bornfree and will add... the need for "trot sets" varies by the horse and what kind of work it's doing and how fit it needs to be. I think a lot of people over-do "trot sets", when they could get a lot more benefit and less concussion from doing their trotting at the same time they're doing flatwork ;)

However in your case it sounds like you have already found a pretty good solution to your problem - lazy WB who needs to be more fit, and a routine which is enjoyable for both of you. If you can incorporate some trots uphill, so much the better. I always walk down any hill and of course don't trot in bad footing. That usually gives enough walk breaks. Also don't underestimate the conditioning value of walking up and down hills. A solid base of slow work is important before doing faster work.

If you need any more fitness, then warm up in trot (such as the shorter set bornfree describes above) and do a couple canters on your trails (if the footing's good). A couple canters might start out as 1 to 2 minutes of canter at 350 metres per minute (good show jump canter), repeated once or twice. [If you do that up hill it would be quite a work out. Just start with one repetition.] Then you can increase it as you see fit, such as 3 minutes at 350, then 3 minutes at 400 metres per minute. I usually don't do conditioning canters at more than 400 metres per minute unless I'm getting a horse fit for a 3-day.

In closing, I would keep doing what you're doing.

[deltawave]

it's tough to get her fit - she would much rather just walk, regardless of whatever I am doing on her back (kicking, tapping with the crop, spurs, squeezing for all I'm worth, openly weeping and pleading with her, etc.).That's lack of obedience, not lack of fitness. :) When you put your leg on lightly, she needs to GO--winter, spring, summer, fall, indoors, outdoors, morning, evening, bored or not bored.

[Dramapony_misty]

I don't know about 00Jumper but I'm a newbie, too, to the whole trot-sets/conditioning thing, and I have read alot on here about it. The one thing I haven't found is a good description of approximate paces for the different meters per minute.

Thank you Blugal for putting 350 mpm into "hunter/jumper" terms.
I'm assuming then that 300 mpm would be a medium canter and 400 mpm an extended canter? Is there a good reference I could look up for the different paces? Thanks!

[asterix]

I wouldn't really call it "medium" and "extended" as that has more to do with length of stride and so on.
300 would feel like a nice relaxed canter, and 400 would feel like a good crisp hand gallop, I think.

The BEST way to figure out pace (although I know it is a pain) is to measure out 100 meters (or 300 or 400 :) in 100 increments) in your field and then clock yourself. Once you get a feel for it, it will be fairly easy to tell when you are on the money.

[Blugal]

220 mpm is a regular trot
250 mpm is a quite strong trot
300 mpm is quite a slow canter
325 mpm is about a regular canter in the ring
350 mpm is a good show jump canter in the ring (probably a slow canter outside)
375 mpm is almost an extended canter in the ring (a comfortable canter outside)

400 mpm is definitely extended in the ring (basically too fast for going around the corners) and is a nice, free, 2-point canter outside the ring. For many TBs, or long-striding ground-covering horses, this is actually a bit of a slow canter.

450 mpm is a hand-gallop, moving out. For many TBs, or long-striding horses, this is their comfortable outside of the ring pace.

ETA: as asterix says, the easiest thing to do is measure out a few hundred metres and figure it out. Unfortunately this might not be as easy as it sounds, unless you have a meter wheel. I try to find somewhere that I can drive my car beside, and use the spedometer to give myself an approximate distance. E.g. 1/2 mile, 800 metres, so if you know to start "at the boulder" and finish "at the 3rd telephone pole" then it would take you 2 minutes at 400 mpm.

[mvp]

The OP seems to have the girl version of my WB gelding. You know, the kind of horse you need to Get Out And Push when you "ride" inside, but potentially wild outside... yet which still needs a base of fitness.

Long ago, I posted some thread about "Conditioning specifically for the jump" here (can't find it now) and the eventers and I (from Hunter World) got into a protracted discussion about conditioning all parts of the horse. Your questions about what and why might be answered there.

Mine were, and then I got Middleageman too fit.... in a good way. That current thread (if you need help with the mental size of taking the lazy WB outside) is "He's too fit-- Help me not get killed."

The eventing world is full of good fun and knowledge. You'll see.

[Janet]

To put the speeds in jumper terms-

For "International standard" jumpers, the time allowed is based on 375 mpm

For regular jumper classes, the time allowed is based on 350 mpm

For Pony Jumpers, the time allowed is based on 328 mpm

[bornfreenowexpensive]

To put the speeds in jumper terms-

For "International standard" jumpers, the time allowed is based on 375 mpm

For regular jumper classes, the time allowed is based on 350 mpm

For Pony Jumpers, the time allowed is based on 328 mpm


That is really interesting Janet...and explains a lot. When I switched to eventing from jumpers....I remember thinking how small the jumps seemed...even at Advanced. Until I saw how DAMN fast they were going at Advanced. To this day....I still think the hardest thing about eventing is the speed.

[bambam]

220 mpm is a regular trot
250 mpm is a quite strong trot
300 mpm is quite a slow canter
325 mpm is about a regular canter in the ring
350 mpm is a good show jump canter in the ring (probably a slow canter outside)
375 mpm is almost an extended canter in the ring (a comfortable canter outside)

400 mpm is definitely extended in the ring (basically too fast for going around the corners) and is a nice, free, 2-point canter outside the ring. For many TBs, or long-striding ground-covering horses, this is actually a bit of a slow canter.

450 mpm is a hand-gallop, moving out. For many TBs, or long-striding horses, this is their comfortable outside of the ring pace.


This is good for a very general idea but it can vary greatly by horse (for example, when my mare is feeling good, her trot stride gets really big and during trot sets gets up to 350)
You best bet is to measure 100 meters in a field, mark it in some way (tape in trees or fence or visual markers already there) and just learn what each field feells like for your horse

[Janet]

To go back to the original question-
"trot sets" are part of the "Interval Training" approach to conditioning. It started with people, not horses, and that was the technique used by Bannister to get fast enough to break the "4 minute mile" barrier.

Long trot sessions are based on the more "traditional" conditioning approach.

If you do a search on "interval training", you will find lots of explanations of the principles involved, But the 50k foot level explanation is that you stress the muscles, allow them to partially recover, and then stress them again. The muscle gets stronger, faster, that way, than just continuing to stress them without the partial recover.

[PortPonies]

I always walk down any hill and of course don't trot in bad footing.

I was surprised to hear that several folks do not trot downhill during conditioning. I was taught that working both up and downhill helped with balance and even musculature, and I admit that I like knowing firsthand that my horse can handle himself safely on rolling terrain in x-c.

Is this approach passe? Am I putting unnecessary stress on my horse's front end with downhill work, when conditioning should just be building cardio?

[deltawave]

Going downhill stresses the muscles differently (eccentric vs. concentric contraction) than going uphill or on the flat, and demands a lot of different balance, etc. I'm not sure it's necessarily HARDER on a horse, but it is DIFFERENT. Therefore I make a point of also schooling downhill at trot and canter, so my horse is adapted to it. Steep? Fast? No, but going downhill at a given gait is often part of XC, therefore IMO it should be part of schooling and conditioning.

[asterix]

No scientist here but since we have to canter down hills on course all the time, I incorporate terrain in both trot and canter work.

[mvp]

Down hill is lots of work for the stifles, that's all.

I walk down with a weak-stifled or tired horse. I trot drown with collection for a strong-stifled horse, but with straightness and care.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I walk down steep hills (focus on keeping them straight too). I will trot/canter down hills when I'm doing my canter sets on hilly terrain...but do what I can to minimize it or make the downhill as gradual as possible. And I will trot, canter and jump down hill as part of a schooling xc or jump stadium fences set on rolling terrain.

But I don't go out of my way to trot or canter down hills. And if I'm out on a hack...will usually walk down hills unless it is just a very slight down hill.


But I think it is all relative. I live in a fairly hilly area....so my idea of a steep down hill and someone else's may be very different.

I also just think it adds increased stress that my horses don't need...they get enough already. My horses rarely have thier studs in just out for a hack...so there is also an increased chance for slipping. So, given my location, and what my horses already do, I'm not purposesly going out looking for hills to trot and canter down.

[WalkerEvntr]

Gee. Wish we had hills to worry about! Stuck in the Florida flat lands, I use my one meager hill to do sprints on before an event.

Funny story relating to hills:
USPC Nationals 2003 in VA. Our novice Sunshine region team packed our bags and headed north. Only one of our riding members had ever competed out of state before and that was only in Georgia, so not very hilly. We arrive, roll out all of our blue and yellow gear and march out to walk cross country. At that point, I think we all got a little bit green around the gills. For a bunch of 13 year olds from the swamps of Florida, we had no idea what to do with hills and neither did our trusty horses. Long and short of it, we all ran clear and had a very educational trip around, but man alive was that a shocker. :cool:

[Blugal]

I actually have no hard scientific facts behind that. I've always been told that trotting down steep hills (i.e. more than a gradual incline) is bad for the front legs - more concussion. Walking downhill works out when I'm out hacking because there are plenty of flat stretches and uphills to work on.

I do canter down hills (when hacking and schooling), although I prefer going up.

Having said that, my horses live out in fields with hills 99% of the time and trot and gallop around all they like, so I'm not too worried about their exposure to downhills for muscle-building or balance.