Filly Coliced Last Night/Cribbing Surgery Questions?

[Filly85']

Long story...thoughts appreciated.

I have a 4 yo mare that had mild gas colic last night (thank God it wasn't worse). We gave her Banamine and consulted the vet. The vet decided not to come out because the filly was much better shortly after receiving the Banamine. She was monitored all night and appears to be fine.

Since I bought her, she has lost a substantial amount of weight. She was on steroids though and is coming off of them, so I expected some weight loss. I am currently treating her for gastric ulcers. She also gets a joint supplement, a weight gain supplement, and an energy supplement (recently started on all of these). She has been rather dull and lethargic lately. We had the vet out last month to do blood work because of stiffness, lethargy, and weight loss. The only thing he found off was that her blood platelets were only very slightly low. They weren't enough to send alarm signs off for the vet, but if anyone had any similar experiences with a horse coming off the track with these symptoms feel free to share your thoughts. She did not have the stiffness when I bought her either, but it may be a side affect from coming off the steroids or gastric ulcers. The lethargy/stiffness may also be withdrawals of coming from a strict regime at the track.

My questions have to deal with the surgery where they cut the nerves and a muscle in the neck (sorry, I forget the name of the surgery) to halt the cribbing. The surgery would be as a last resort, but I believe it may be worth it. Has anyone had success with this surgery? How is the recovery time? And did you have any unforeseen problems after the surgery? I would do this in the distant future (later this year), as I want the mare to be healthier before I would do this.

Because the cribbing collar does not work, I'm going to see how a cribbing muzzle does. Perhaps the supplements will curtail the cribbing somewhat as well. I'll give them more time.

This is the last time I will buy a horse that cribs. I didn't realize her habit was this bad when I bought her. However, I don't necessarily regret buying this one because this is one of the sweetest mares that I have ever been around. She is a 4 yo off the track and is calm enough for anyone to ride her (we're not currently riding her because of her problems). She never spooks or turns a hair. She's well worth any of the money that I put in to her to ease her habit and get her straight.

All of these problems that I described are mild (except for the cribbing!), but they were enough to send out alarm signals and enough for us to know that we need to do something about them. She just isn't quite right. This was not the case when I bought her. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

[luvmywalkers]

My vet did surgery on a TB mare who had been cribbing for at least 4 years. For about a year after surgery she would still crib on and off. Now, 2 years after surgery, she's no longer cribbing.

[Parker_Rider]

Ugh, I'm sorry you have to deal with this!!! My mare had the cribbing surgery when she was just a baby, before I bought her - her dam was a HUGE problem cribber and didn't want her passing that trait on to the baby because her breeding is so good. Apparently, from what the breeder/previous owner said, she bounced right back and was fine afterwards. I got her when she was 4 and have had her since, and haven't seen any adverse reaction to it. She doesn't crib, she just chews lightly on things like cribbers do. So I would have to say that I guess it works because she cannot physically suck wind.

She also has quite a funny looking upper neck because of it, but looking at her filly (a literal mini-me), I'm consoled by the fact that she probably wouldn't have had a nice, full, thick neck anyway ;) So I guess that's a moot point. It's just rough right up by her jowl, so it's only funny looking on my mare and only if you're looking for it.

Good luck, and I hope you don't have to resort to surgery... I don't know if it would help a little or a lot since your mare already knows the drill of cribbing, though.

[Buglet]

Sent you a PM!

[Donkey]

Just an idea - I have a friend who last fall bought a young OTTB mare that cribs. Her mare has had on and off colic for months, finally with a severe episode (that included a twisted colon) that she fortunately pulled out of. Her and her vet have since proceeded on a very aggressive worming regime and while they are not done, the results have been pretty interesting (mild colic post worming, very lethargic days after worming) indicating that parasites are/were a likely culprit for the poor mare's discomfort. Don't know if it had any effect on her cribbing though.

[Fence2Fence]

I did the cribbing surgery for my older gelding a couple years ago. In hindsight, it was a complete waste of money. The cribbing surgery seems to work best on young horses who crib lightly (based on anecdotal evidence I've read/heard, and my own vet's opinion). I knew I was taking a risk, and was willing to do it. So that's that.

If I had given more consideration to the fact that it will not curb their impulse to crib, I may have not decided to do the surgery. Whatever is driving that impulse will continue to be there unless we figure out how to mitigate it. And sometimes, it's just a plain old habit that cannot be cured. And if they are driven enough and/or it's a confirmed habit, they'll figure out how to adapt and crib.

My horse couldn't crib, and was very stressed over that, I should add, but before the stitches were out (ten days), he figured out how to adapt and cribbed lightly. As soon as I could put the strap back on, I did. If the strap is not adjusted correctly, he'll lightly crib.

I hate the cribbing strap, and I hate adjusting it as tight as it needs to be. But if he's grazing and relaxing, than it's loose enough. I finally had to bite the bullet and tighten the damn thing so that it could work.

Otherwise, an easy recovery, and my horse has no surgical blemishes.

While I feel the surgery was a waste of money, I don't think he's figured out how to crib as 'deeply' as he once did--so that's a good thing since the grunting is rather disruptive. But if I leave the strap off, I bet he'd figured it out really quickly.

The only other thing I can think of... when he's in the stall and doesn't have a bucket or ledge to crib on, he won't. I've never seen him adapt to cribbing off the side of the wall like other horses I've seen.

Your horse does not sound like she's in good enough shape to do a surgery. I've read that some people have noticed a decrease in cribbing once ulcers were successfully treated. Maybe you'll see an improvement after you get the general health issues resolved.

[Filly85']

Sent you a PM!

Thank you again Buglet!

[LarissaL]

I'm sorry, I'm no help on the cribbing. I do hope you find something to ease her problems there though!

I had an 8 year old gelding come off the track a year and a few months ago. He went through a V E R Y tough time coming down. I have no knowledge of what drugs, if any, he was receiving at the track.

You can email me if you want more details - llefebure1@hotmail.com.

My guy was looking pretty decent at at the track in Nov07 (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/2908135000_21e3839232.jpg?v=0). Despite veterinary intervention, recommended dietary changes, and many, many other tries, he looked absolutely tragic (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2765347829_f20d876f39.jpg?v=0) in April08. Another (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/2765346631_af47c93c13.jpg?v=0).

In addition to massive weight loss and muscle wasting, he had random sweat patterns, balding patches, other patches of determinedly retained winter coat, edema, and deteriorating hoof condition. And more I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Consensus between experts was that we were dealing with something metabolic. We did insulin and glucose testing and two separate tests for Cushings. His results were way, way below the normal ranges for both. No documented condition (to my vets' knowledge) presented this way, so the accepted theory is that we were dealing with steroid withdrawl (reduced pituitary function).

A year+ later, this guy is pretty much recuperated. It's taken that long :( I plan to put him back in light work next month, so I'll know how successful we have been at that point!

[Bogie]

I have a cribber that has improved his behavior significantly by monitoring his diet and letting him live out 24/7. I know that doesn't work with every horse and isn't always an option in a boarding barn.

I've also found that using a neck sweat, rather than a cribbing strap, worked fine with my horse.

Maybe some of these articles will help. I wrote quite a few posts about cribbing recently:

Diet can Influence Sterotypic Behaviors in Horses (http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/diet-can-influence-stereotypic-behaviors-in-horses/)

Cribbing: Presumed Causes
(http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/cribbing-presumed-causes/)
Does Cribbing Cause Health Problems? (http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/cribbing-part-ii-does-cribbing-cause-health-problems/)

Cribbing Prevention (http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/cribbing-part-iii-prevention/)

[imissvixen]

How long has your mare been off the track? I had one off the track that cribbed for about the first six months and then it went away. I turned her out 24/7 for the first year I had her and tried not to look at her very often because her condition changed so much. First she had that steroidal look, then she looked kind of ragged, then she just blossomed.

I also discourage all the supplements. I think they are not worth the money. Better to take you money to find her a nice big field to graze in.

[Filly85']

I'm sorry, I'm no help on the cribbing. I do hope you find something to ease her problems there though!

I had an 8 year old gelding come off the track a year and a few months ago. He went through a V E R Y tough time coming down. I have no knowledge of what drugs, if any, he was receiving at the track.

You can email me if you want more details - llefebure1@hotmail.com.

My guy was looking pretty decent at at the track in Nov07 (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/2908135000_21e3839232.jpg?v=0). Despite veterinary intervention, recommended dietary changes, and many, many other tries, he looked absolutely tragic (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2765347829_f20d876f39.jpg?v=0) in April08. Another (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/2765346631_af47c93c13.jpg?v=0).

In addition to massive weight loss and muscle wasting, he had random sweat patterns, balding patches, other patches of determinedly retained winter coat, edema, and deteriorating hoof condition. And more I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Consensus between experts was that we were dealing with something metabolic. We did insulin and glucose testing and two separate tests for Cushings. His results were way, way below the normal ranges for both. No documented condition (to my vets' knowledge) presented this way, so the accepted theory is that we were dealing with steroid withdrawl (reduced pituitary function).

A year+ later, this guy is pretty much recuperated. It's taken that long :( I plan to put him back in light work next month, so I'll know how successful we have been at that point!

MDEventer, I think our horses are going through the same thing. I think my horse's symptoms are a bit milder, but she just isn't where you would want her to be. She has been off the track for 6 months. I wish you the best of luck with your boy!

[equinelaw]

I have a cribber that has improved his behavior significantly by monitoring his diet and letting him live out 24/7. I know that doesn't work with every horse and isn't always an option in a boarding barn.

I've also found that using a neck sweat, rather than a cribbing strap, worked fine with my horse.

Maybe some of these articles will help. I wrote quite a few posts about cribbing recently:

Diet can Influence Sterotypic Behaviors in Horses (http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/diet-can-influence-stereotypic-behaviors-in-horses/)

Cribbing: Presumed Causes
(http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/cribbing-presumed-causes/)
Does Cribbing Cause Health Problems? (http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/cribbing-part-ii-does-cribbing-cause-health-problems/)

Cribbing Prevention (http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/cribbing-part-iii-prevention/)

Excellent blog posts on cribbing. I wish it were a sticky!:)