Unusual nasal discharge - Update post #1

[BornToRide]

Update - for anyone who's truly interested: just got a call from the owner after a visit to a local Equine Clinic - horse has a cleft palate. Why this was missed by the other vet last year when he was scoped him is a mystery to us at this point. Long term prognosis - probably mostly pasture ornament, which I'm sure he will enjoy. :)

___________________________________________

A client's horse always has a green discharge through his nostrils after he ate. Was checked out by a vet last year and vet said that he could not find anything unusual. Said maybe it is allergies. Horse is otherwise healthy and eating normal. Client had him for a little over a year now.

Horse had a bad worm infestation that was finally eradicated 2 months ago, but nasal discharge remains. Tonight I got a call because they are now also dripping some blood that according to the owner he's never had before and it is definitely not from a scratch on the nostrils. It is coming our from both nostrils.

He's still eating well and behaving normally. This horse is basically a pasture pony that is used for trail riding once a week or so.

Have any of you had similar experiences with nasal discharge like this after eating and even some blood? If so, what was the cause?

[MistyBlue]

A client's horse always has a green discharge through his nostrils after he ate. Was checked out by a vet last year and vet said that he could not find anything unusual. Said maybe it is allergies. Horse is otherwise healthy and eating normal. Client had him for a little over a year now.

Horse had a bad worm infestation that was finally eradicated 2 months ago, but nasal discharge remains. Tonight I got a call because they are now also dripping some blood that according to the owner he's never had before and it is definitely not from a scratch on the nostrils. It is coming our from both nostrils.

He's still eating well and behaving normally. This horse is basically a pasture pony that is used for trail riding once a week or so.

Have any of you had similar experiences with nasal discharge like this after eating and even some blood? If so, what was the cause?


Seriously? This horse is now dripping blood out of it's nostrils and the owners called *you*????? :eek: Not a vet, they called the massage and hoof trim lady to ask you to treat their horse's chronic nasal issues that's now bleeding.
And now you are coming onto a BB and asking people to help you diagnose the issue?
Do I have this right?
First, why would they call you unless you've been telling them you're some sort of vet type horse health care person?

Second, why wouldn't you just tell them immediately that you are not qualified to give them medical advice or diagnose anything because 1) you're not qualified and 2) it's illegal for you to do so.

And third...you're not *seriously* planning on hearing armchair dignosis from folks you do not know at all online from a horsie BB so you can then pass that info and care idea onto your hoof trimming/massage client as a diagnosis/treatment plan, are you?

And fourth: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[BornToRide]

Seriously MistyBlue ake a chill pill - I advised her to call the vet. And how exactly do you know what I told her , which you seem rather certain of considering your considerable assumptions?? Did you listen in on the conversation??!!

I am asking because the owner already consulted a vet some time ago who did a thorough check up, including scoping and was stumped - did you miss that??!

[Seven-up]

I missed it too. But that's because it wasn't in the original post.

[Beasmom]

Maybe you (or, rather, your client) need to call a different vet. You know, get a second opinion if the first guy insists he "can't find anything".

There IS something, and I bet it's gonna be a mess to straighten up.

[Dazednconfused]

I know exactly what the problem is.


















NSCs. I bet someone is sneaking into his pasture at night and stuffing him full of alfalfa and bananas. And Peeps. But especially alfalfa. The spawn of satan.

[Seven-up]

You know, I always suspected bananas were evil but I had no logical basis for believing this. Until now. Thanks, Dazed!:lol:



Yeah, maybe suggest they call a different vet, and tell that vet that A YEAR AGO another vet said, "Huh. I dunno" and they haven't done anything about it since, and now the horse is bleeding from the freakin' nostrils. That's a start. Rocket science, I know.

[goeslikestink]

Seriously? This horse is now dripping blood out of it's nostrils and the owners called *you*????? :eek: Not a vet, they called the massage and hoof trim lady to ask you to treat their horse's chronic nasal issues that's now bleeding.
And now you are coming onto a BB and asking people to help you diagnose the issue?
Do I have this right?
First, why would they call you unless you've been telling them you're some sort of vet type horse health care person?

Second, why wouldn't you just tell them immediately that you are not qualified to give them medical advice or diagnose anything because 1) you're not qualified and 2) it's illegal for you to do so.

And third...you're not *seriously* planning on hearing armchair dignosis from folks you do not know at all online from a horsie BB so you can then pass that info and care idea onto your hoof trimming/massage client as a diagnosis/treatment plan, are you?

And fourth: :eek: :eek: :eek:



rock on matey -- you might find yourself in court btr

and will say this the horse is at risk of losing his life and you stll riding him
thats disgusting-

- and you need a vet wether it can be saved or not depends on the amount of damaged done as the horse has been suffering for over a year - thats disgusting

and also bad worm infestation that was only treated two months ago --disgusting

mate this horse is in trouble

call a vet now or failing that load him up and get him to surgery now you be lucky if he dont die on the way

see now this is what happens when someone listens to people like you that try and sell the bs or shove it down there thoarts as righteous garbage ie brian washed them into i know what i am doing type as if you do


you do - its not you the suffers its the horse and the owners maybe if the owner is a client that belived in what you told them to do
your unreal btr --

i will tell you right now you be lucky if this horse has a lung to breath from and that matey is what happens when horses have servre alllgeries and or worm damaged
or both

lets see now you dont beleive in wormers only the natural homepathic ones
well they dont work and this is what happens

a horse that has bad worm iinfestation gets a cough worms can attack anwhere throughout the body as they migrate - as they migrate the cough gets worse and the hrose cant breath as there is muck on his chest and intestines the horse cant be sick so what ever comes out through the nose

this horse has been suffering for over a year and any vet would have diagnosed worms in the 1st call and put him on a wormng programme when they saw him

but as you dont beleive in vets i doubt very much you took him
and you are just saying vets siad hes fine -- as if a vet woud say that with green snotty nose


now it secondary and the horse more than likely has trouble breathing as its affected the lungs and so there is blood as the airways are small and ovbiously restricted or blocked and the horse has blood comming from his nose as struggles to breath from damaged lungs

and your still riding him-------- thats disgsuting



and i very much doubt the horse - will pull through if proper treatment starts the horse will always have trouble to breath

[Seven-up]

Damn good post, GLS.



And can we get a definition of irony? This is it: The original post, with this quote in the signature: "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." ~ Gandhi


Gandhi says call a vet. A REAL ONE. With an actual degree. Not one who will tell you what's wrong with a psychic reading and magic crystals.

[dotneko]

Get a vet that can diagnose this now!

We had a similar epsiode - nose starts drip, drip, drip blood.
No scratch, called vet. Vet started to scope and blood started
pouring out. Immediately sent horse to Tufts. Turns out horse had
nasal tumors that were infiltrating into carotid artery. Two surgeries
later, horse dies from blood clot.
Vet at Tufts said, not common, but the owner ususally finds the horse
has bled out. We just caught it while it was starting.

Dot

[MistyBlue]

Seriously MistyBlue ake a chill pill - I advised her to call the vet. And how exactly do you know what I told her , which you seem rather certain of considering your considerable assumptions?? Did you listen in on the conversation??!!

I am asking because the owner already consulted a vet some time ago who did a thorough check up, including scoping and was stumped - did you miss that??!

I was pretty chilled out when I typed my reply. Takes quite a bit to get my knickers in a twist, I'm a pretty laid back type.
I don't know what you told her...but your past posting history gave me a guess on what could ppossibly have happened. Instead of sticking to hoof trimming and massage you've mentioned frequently you giving multiple clients medical advice. You've also started threads often enough before that ask medical questions and almost always start with "I have a client who has a horse with ______, what would cause this/how to fix this?" Instead of popping online onto a BB where you don't seem to agree with anything anyone else says anyways...you should be telling each and every client who asks you a medical question, "I'm not qualified to answer that and can get into legal trouble if I do. I'd suggest calling your vet and asking that person and you can also google it yourself to learn more about it. Or here are some medical books I'd suggest for you to read and learn from." Period.
I'm going to hazard a guess that this is the same client who's had a previous thread from you that starts with "I have a client" and ends with a question on deworming protocol. "We found worms in his poop" and that you had no idea what dewormers they had been using for the horse they recently bought and only knew the feed store had advised the owners on deworming. Something just tells the average reader of this BB that when clients mention medical issues that require a vet to answer...you have the idea to pop on here, glean some info and then pass it back off to them as medical advice...either as your own knowledge or whatever. And you have no idea if the advice you're getting on here is accurate or not. And this is a clue to that guess:
but I'll now make sure she's got all bases covered and covered good. Thanks!
If your vet does not give you advise, and you feel you are left to your own devices , you look for help elsewhere. Those are also folks relatively new to horse ownership.
Then you tell them to get a new vet. :no:

And so now we're back to possibly the same owners...who are new to horses and getting seemingly all their horse care advice from you. Who is getting it from online BBs.
Forgive me for not believing the circumstances...this same vet couldn't help them learn how to deworm a horse...at around the same time the same vet couldn't find a reason for a snotty nose...now suddenly they've talked to him again recently and same vet can't be bothered? And this vet did a thorough scoping back then for only a snotty nose? definitely not normal procedure for the snots...not to mention he was that thorough for snots and couldn't give her any useful advice on deworming?
Color me disbelieving...of the whole scenario...I just can't wrap my brain around:
*There isn't a single decent farrier in your area
*There isn't a single knowledgeable vet in your area
*All these "My client's horse has____, what would you do?" threads aren't being used by you to give your clients veterinary advice.

[chancellor2]

MistyBlue-You said a mouthful. A mouthful of good, informed facts....something BTR is not so good with. I need a clapping hands emoticon.

[sketcher]

I know exactly what the problem is.


















NSCs. I bet someone is sneaking into his pasture at night and stuffing him full of alfalfa and bananas. And Peeps. But especially alfalfa. The spawn of satan.


I need a rolling on the floor-laughing-my- *ss-off icon.
I personally think that the horse needs iron shoes and to have his thyroid checked. :yes:

[chancellor2]

Won't you be embarrassed Skecher when it turns out his the horse's thyroid is what is causing his bloody noses. Although, maybe you won't be because you did suggest he needs his thyroid checked.

Peeps are hard to get this time of year. So, it can't be those.

[Jumpin_Horses]

A client's horse always has a green discharge through his nostrils after he ate. Was checked out by a vet last year and vet said that he could not find anything unusual. Said maybe it is allergies. Horse is otherwise healthy and eating normal. Client had him for a little over a year now.

Horse had a bad worm infestation that was finally eradicated 2 months ago, but nasal discharge remains. Tonight I got a call because they are now also dripping some blood that according to the owner he's never had before and it is definitely not from a scratch on the nostrils. It is coming our from both nostrils.

He's still eating well and behaving normally. This horse is basically a pasture pony that is used for trail riding once a week or so.

Have any of you had similar experiences with nasal discharge like this after eating and even some blood? If so, what was the cause?

wow, so many things wrong here. BTR, please seek professional help. for you and the pony.

is this a pony you have been working with for a YEAR now?

the obvious:

1. had pony for a year, and just NOW addressed worms 2 months ago :eek: what on earth is the de-worming protocol?
2. RIDING SICK PONY! :mad: are you kidding!
3. sick for a year, now blood and they called YOU?!
4. a YEAR ago, vet said "I dont know", and the problem wasnt more thoroughly investigated?! :confused:
5. what did they do? just say "hey, vet doesnt know what it is, we'll just ride the poor, sick thing" :confused:

shall I continue?

BTR - I try so hard to give you the benefit of doubt, but, you keep making it harder and harder for me to do so. this animals blood in YOUR hands now. how does it feel? you will NEVER be able to wash it off.

bottom line, get this pony some professional help - NOW

maybe lung worms? was Ivermectin ever given? who knows? MUST HAVE A COMPETENT VET

[chancellor2]

Jumpin Horses, I tried to give BTR the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.....but I just couldn't do it any longer when she stood by several statements with scientific PROOF that she was wrong.

[sketcher]

Have any of you had similar experiences with nasal discharge like this after eating and even some blood? If so, what was the cause?

Do you go to other boards and pose questons so you can come back here and sound like an "expert", much like it sounds like you are doing in this case - looking for advice so you can call your client and sound like you are knowledgable? Inquiring minds want to know.

Whomever posted that you're the one that needs help is correct.

[BornToRide]

Maybe you (or, rather, your client) need to call a different vet. You know, get a second opinion if the first guy insists he "can't find anything".

There IS something, and I bet it's gonna be a mess to straighten up. Thank you - That's exactly what I told her to do!

[BornToRide]

Get a vet that can diagnose this now!

We had a similar epsiode - nose starts drip, drip, drip blood.
No scratch, called vet. Vet started to scope and blood started
pouring out. Immediately sent horse to Tufts. Turns out horse had
nasal tumors that were infiltrating into carotid artery. Two surgeries
later, horse dies from blood clot.
Vet at Tufts said, not common, but the owner ususally finds the horse
has bled out. We just caught it while it was starting.

Dot Did your horse ever had some green nasal discharge after eating before the bleeding actually started?

Thanks for everyone who actually had something constructive to add!

[Thomas_1]

BTR, got to say that this thread is the epitome of what is wrong with what you say you do.

You purport to be a professional something or other..... not sure what because you never answer specific questions. I'm seriously wondering though if you're actually a troll.

What I do know though is you aint no vet! And you aint no horse expert or horse professional. That's apparent to a blind man because of what you post and what you ask.

Now though you're posting about some negligent owner with a pony that's had a serious chronic condition for a year. It seems to me like if we are to believe your postings, that what you're actually doing is indulging neglect by setting yourself up in real life as some sort of "expert" open to offering advice.

I'm just not getting your assertion that this is an otherwise healthy horse! For goodness sakes, make your mind up, you said it's worm infested has green discharge for nigh on a year and also a bi-lateral nasal hemorrhage?!

Also seems that to make it even worse the poor sod of a pony is stuffed in a field for 6 days a week and then expected to cart someone about one day!

Do your customers know you've not got a clue and are actually posting on a bulletin board to ask for advice so you can then relay back answers? If so, then you know what? They're mad, irresponsible, negligent* (insert as appropriate).

What would I do: Tell them to phone the vet NOW. Get the horse checked out properly and fully NOW. STOP riding it until it's fit and health and with no symptoms. Get a proper worming programme. Get a decent farrier. Consider if it might have come with something infectious and are there other horses there? Ensure once it's physically healthy that they start to exercise it to ensure it's maintained fit enough to take them for a ride and treating it like a motorbike stuck out all week with a leak! and then expecting it to go out once a week is unacceptable.

Tell them to stop fannying about asking well meaning nincumpoops for advice and go pay for proper diagnostics.

[Thomas_1]

Did your horse ever had some green nasal discharge after eating before the bleeding actually started?

Thanks for everyone who actually had something constructive to add! Everyone here has been constructive and posted in consideration of the interests of the pony.

What you're actually doing is destructive and not in anyone's interests.

I mean that most constructively and positively of course.


Judging by the old saying, "What you don't know can't hurt you," she's practically invulnerable.

[MistyBlue]

Thank you - That's exactly what I told her to do!

Good, then you won't feel obliged to break both moral and legal laws by giving your own version of medical advice taken from the internet by people you do not know.
Like you're asking for here:
Did your horse ever had some green nasal discharge after eating before the bleeding actually started?


Thanks for everyone who actually had something constructive to add!

You were given constructive advice on this thread...advice to stop trying to find medical diagnosis for horses not your own online and advice to tell the owners to calll a new vet.

Which was the *same* advice you were given last year on the same owners and same horse and which was probably ignored then too.
And oddly enough that thread went the same way this one did...you asking for medical advice on here to pass along to your newbie horse owning clients. When told not to pass along medical advice from people you don't know, same excuse offered up as "oh, I did tell them to call the vet and he didn't do anything." The information about the incompetent vets is never given in any posts until a few folks say to have the owners call the vet. And as soon as someone says that, the same info is given that a vet is/was called and the vet is/was incompetent.
Same exact progression in the last thread.

And on this thread on dental advice, same thing:
No - this is a young 12 year old mare who had her teeth done in Sep 2008. I think the vet missed removing the hooks.

And then there's this one:


I have a client who has a 4 year old paint gelding who's now loosing literally clumps of his mane while he's shedding his winter coat.
The owner had him picked apart by a vet and they could not find anything, no lice, no allergies, no nothing.

Good point. I do not know, but I will pass it on. Thank you!

And this one:
I have a client who has a 24+ TB mare who started showing unusual running behavior in 2006. The mare cocks her head to one side and starts running in large circles. Her eyes look like she's checked out, but she will recognize the fence and stop. At the end of the incidence she will stand and her whole body will shake quite a bit for a minute or so.

They have checked her out, but found nothing unusual.
Quite possible for sure. Owner is reluctant to do more diagnostics/treatments, but perhaps with more info, I could convince her to do so.
Good point - any other symptoms she had? Fever?
Yes, it does. I will definitely pass it on, thanks!


Wait, this one too:
My friend's QH mare presented with two stocked up hind legs this morning.

Mare was not worked/ridden the past week or so
Never had this problem before
Is out 24/7
Is sound and moves normally
Does not appear to have scratches
Acts normal otherwise
no other apparent changes in diet
Other horses on the same diet and in environment are fineWhat are the possible other causes for something like this? I remember that some viral infection could be the cause, but do not remember what this was.
No mention of telling them to call a vet..only two replies with possibilities. Wonder what happened there?

Hang on, another one:
I have a client with a pregnant QH mare who is showing some unusual and hard swelling around her udder, more so on the left side and it extends all the way back between her hindlegs. What could cause this and is this something to worry about? Mare seems fine otherwise.
Mastitis even without heat and soreness? There was none at all........

Again, others mention to call a vet, and there's not mention of a vet being contacted at all.

Stands to reason with a history like this...it's definitely possible (and likely) that no vets are ever mentioned until well after a bunch of folks tell you to refer them to their vet because their holisitic all knowing guru might be attempting to provide them all services...whether legal or not. Whether moral or not.
After all, you've posted so many times that vets around your area are not capable of diagnosing anything. Farriers can't trim anything and shoes are the root of all evil. Vets know nothing about equine nutrition. None of the vets near you will advise their clients of anything.
We try to get our local vets involved all the time, but they are not even interested in listening, no matter how considerate, respectful and ego stroking one is to get them to listen.

That was one of about 20 different times you've stated that vets aren't interested in learning, caring about clients horses, etc and there are countless ones stating that vets know next to nothing about hooves or nutrition.

So we're really supposed to believe that since you don't like the vets in your area and consider them all fools that you're *really* advising your clients to call them? :rolleyes:

So since this one stroked your ego back, maybe start advising your clients to call this one?
However, perhaps there's more hope - got this from a client the other day :):
Quote:

Dr. T., M's vet, was out today. She had her Spring shots
and her Coggins done, so she can be ready to go to J's in June.
Dr. T had me trot M back and forth on the road in front
of her pasture. He said she travels beautifully. No problems at all.
He liked the fact that she wasn't wearing shoes. I told him that I
have a Barefoot Trimmer :)). I had him look at one of her feet and
he was impressed with how round and "perfectly shaped" they are!!
He was also impressed with her calm demeanor and good attitude.
I was Very Happy, to say the least!

[Beasmom]

Please keep us updated on the horse's condition and treatment. This is definitely a red flag problem and the horse needs a competent vet NOW. Even if that means it gets hauled to a large clinic or vet school.

Further information regarding this horse's illness and treatment will benefit us all.

[Foxtrot's]

Last horse I had with a nasal discharge had an infected tooth, and the one before had strangles. Another I know got kicked as a young one in the sinus - could be lots of things.

[chancellor2]

MistyBlue-Good post again! Good work.

[BornToRide]

Ever considered that client A is miles away from client B and the vet may not service the area??

For the stalker crowd - you guys are really pathetic with your assumptions and insults. It is simply amazing that you have essentially nothing better to do than to follow a person(s) around on the internet to bash for differing opinions just to make yourself feel better when you do. Only unhappy people really have the need to behave in such a verbally abusive way and they are usually in denial about it too.

[Jumpin_Horses]

Ever considered that client A is miles away from client B and the vet may not service the area??

For the stalker crowd - you guys are really pathetic with your assumptions and insults. It is simply amazing that you have essentially nothing better to do than to follow a person(s) around on the internet to bash for differing opinions just to make yourself feel better when you do. Only unhappy people really have the need to behave in such a verbally abusive way and they are usually in denial about it too.

wow! :lol::lol::lol:

[chancellor2]

So, now you are making judgments about people's happiness based on a BB. NOW you can have a career in psychotherapy! I wonder though, if there are any BB's out there for psychotherapy so you can ask questions there before treating your 'patients'.

I am a very happy person. However, I have a BS meter built into my brain. And, somehow, it always seems to go off when you are around (even if I have no shoes on it goes off so don't tell me I need to be barefoot).

[Thomas_1]

Ever considered that client A is miles away from client B and the vet may not service the area?? Erm.....

Don't they have phones where you are in the USA?
Why don't client A and client B phone their vets?
How comes client A and client B have horses if they don't have vets?
How does that work?
If there were additional complications or valid points to be considered then why didn't you say so in the first place?
Are all your clients negligent owners that don't know how to find horse care professionals?
In any event what does this latest addition to the story have to do with anything?
Why would the lack of vets to hand prevent an owner seeking professional veterinary medical advice?
Why would it prevent an owner from properly treating a pony for worms?
Why on earth would you want to set yourself up as an advisor when you don't know enough to help?
Have you heard of indemnity of advice or professional indemnity insurance?


For the stalker crowd - you guys are really pathetic with your assumptions and insults. It is simply amazing that you have essentially nothing better to do than to follow a person(s) around on the internet to bash for differing opinions just to make yourself feel better when you do. Only unhappy people really have the need to behave in such a verbally abusive way and they are usually in denial about it too. You cannot be serious can you?
You posted the thread!
You requested the attention.
You do it repeatedly.
It's been a constant feature of your postings to ask for advice so you can tell a negligent owner what to do.
You've been told time and time again that this isn't the right thing to do.
I remember your postings well over time and MistyBlue has given us a fair sample with her helpful trawl (or is it troll)
If you're feeling abused then you only have to stop inviting and allowing that. You can change that in a heartbeat. Just stop posting silly stories about what you don't know about.


Some people don't hesitate to speak their minds because they have nothing to lose.

[chancellor2]

But, Thomas, what would she tell her clients about how to manage their horses if she didn't post questions like this one? She can't say "I don't know." Apparently.

[trubandloki]

GREAT posts Mistyblue!!!!


I read the original post and I figured it was more of a case of BTR posting a question so we can give answers and then in the end she can slap us upside the head and tell us we are all too stupid to be alive because the real problem was <insert real problem here>.

Because we all know that only she is smart enough to own a horse.


Add me to the crowd that thinks a vet should be called.
It is hard to believe that a horse owner would watch a horse have a green nasal discharge for a full year and do nothing about it. I thought every adult knew that clear discharge is OK but once it is green there is an issue.

[chancellor2]

It is hard to believe that a horse owner would watch a horse have a green nasal discharge for a full year and do nothing about it. I thought every adult knew that clear discharge is OK but once it is green there is an issue.

I don't know. I don't find it that hard to believe that a horse owner who asks BTR for veterinary advice would leave green discharge for a year. Who knows? Maybe BTR told her a year ago not to worry about it and the owner was just following 'veterinary' orders.

[Beasmom]

So has a vet been called? Has said vet been notified that this is an emergency call? Because it is.

[trubandloki]

I don't know. I don't find it that hard to believe that a horse owner who asks BTR for veterinary advice would leave green discharge for a year. Who knows? Maybe BTR told her a year ago not to worry about it and the owner was just following 'veterinary' orders.

Oh, I do not think it is at all strange that an owner would be asking BTR for advice. I assume BTR acts the same around her clients as she does here on the BB and lots of people fall for that all knowing aura BTR likes to spread about.

What I find strange is that an average person would continue to believe that a green discharge is normal after a full year.

Heck, would this same person let their kid walk around with a green discharge coming from their nose for a full year because the bus driver said it was no big deal?

[MistyBlue]

Ever considered that client A is miles away from client B and the vet may not service the area??

For the stalker crowd - you guys are really pathetic with your assumptions and insults. It is simply amazing that you have essentially nothing better to do than to follow a person(s) around on the internet to bash for differing opinions just to make yourself feel better when you do. Only unhappy people really have the need to behave in such a verbally abusive way and they are usually in denial about it too.


I'm not stalking you. Your past threads and posts are very memorable, and predictable. You make the same exact off the wall claims in all of them. Vets are stupid, farriers are stupid, only you know what's going on, we're all stupid and not a single client of your can trust anyone anywhere but you.

I added a few past quotes because otherwise you'd claim you never said or did that. And finding those took all of 3 seconds since all your posts and threads state the same things. Well, except for the few that ask a medical question and then wait to tell everyone they're wrong and stupid and only you know the answer. :winkgrin:

[Seven-up]

Erm.....

Don't they have phones where you are in the USA?


They don't live in the USA. They live in an alternate universe.




And I know logic doesn't apply here, but if the vet said there's nothing wrong with the horse, wouldn't warped logic dictate that BTR would declare that vet incompetent, and therefore, wouldn't it mean that there IS something wrong with the horse? You know, not because of green snot and blood but because it's the opposite of what the vet said?

[Thomas_1]

Heck, would this same person let their kid walk around with a green discharge coming from their nose for a full year because the bus driver said it was no big deal? I'm thinking there's no sudden cure to stupidity so the the answer to that is Yes......



Do I win the prize for being the first to get it right? :D

[Jumpin_Horses]

I'm thinking there's no sudden cure to stupidity so the the answer to that is Yes......



Do I win the prize for being the first to get it right? :D

EEEWWWW! just had an image of bubble blowing, greeny, kid boogers that *some* parents let their kids smear all over the grocery store :eek:

you mean owners like that?

[trubandloki]

I'm thinking there's no sudden cure to stupidity so the the answer to that is Yes......



Valid point!


Do I win the prize for being the first to get it right? :D

Not until I stop laughing so hard that I can not breath. :winkgrin: :lol:

[Parker_Rider]

Heck, would this same person let their kid walk around with a green discharge coming from their nose for a full year because the bus driver said it was no big deal?

:lol::lol::lol:

Thomas, can you please have COTH add a "voice posting" option, because hearing your smackdowns with that English/Scottish accent would probably make my day. And I enjoy your quotes at the end of your posts here... clever ;)

I'm just baffled why the matter wasn't investigated to its logical end (a diagnosis, maybe?) at the first sign of green discharge... a white cell count maybe? lab work for determining if there's a bacterium/virus in the respiratory system? some sort of proactive measure taken? I'm not a vet, but having a filly who just came down with green discharge, a fever and a cough, this is all fresh in my mind from the vet who came out (15 min. after the discharge was found! on a saturday!) and put all the options on the table for diagnosing what was wrong with her.... I know this BB is a wealth of knowledge, but c'mon...

I just.. a year? really?

I'm glad noone involved in this is associated with law enforcement.. "Well, Mr. DA, we looked around the crime scene, couldn't find the perp, so we left. No, we didn't secure the area or bring home evidence, but we figured if the crime was solvable, the criminal would still be there!"

[CatOnLap]

Seriously MistyBlue ake a chill pill - I advised her to call the vet. And how exactly do you know what I told her , which you seem rather certain of considering your considerable assumptions?? Did you listen in on the conversation??!!

I am asking because the owner already consulted a vet some time ago who did a thorough check up, including scoping and was stumped - did you miss that??!

Blood from both the nostrils is a new and very concerning sign. It may have nothing to do with the previous snotty discharge.
A vet should have been called and attended ASAP.
I have seen this twice, both times as a result of a horse having hit its head on an overhead bar. Both horses wered dripping small amounts of blood and watery discharge. Both had basilar skull fractures that eventually led to both being euthanized. The one horse (sans head bumper) had just got off its trailer for my coaching exam, and hit its head on the steel frame at the back of the trailer. The candidate had a cavalier attitude and was intending to ignore the signs and carry on with the 3 day practical exam on that horse, until the chief examiner insisted a vet be called NOW before the horse was allowed in the exam. It was very sad, but better than letting the horse suffer.

[chancellor2]

Parker Rider,
This was obviously not investigated to its fullest because BTR doesn't have access to things like needles and vacutainers to draw blood. She doesn't have an account at a laboratory where she can send the vacutainers full of blood anyway. See, although she thinks she is a vet, she isn't. And, you really need to be one to do that kind of work.
Now, what BTR CAN do is come to BBs and ask for help.

[Parker_Rider]

Parker Rider,
This was obviously not investigated to its fullest because BTR doesn't have access to things like needles and vacutainers to draw blood. She doesn't have an account at a laboratory where she can send the vacutainers full of blood anyway. See, although she thinks she is a vet, she isn't. And, you really need to be one to do that kind of work.
Now, what BTR CAN do is come to BBs and ask for help.

Right. Sorry. I was ASSuming there was a *real vet* involved in the process... my bad.

[chancellor2]

'S alright Parker Rider....it's easy to get confused on threads like this. Remember, common sense is NOT always common to some people.

[Thomas_1]

:lol::lol::lol:

Thomas, can you please have COTH add a "voice posting" option, because hearing your smackdowns with that English/Scottish accent would probably make my day. And I enjoy your quotes at the end of your posts here... clever ;) No Scottish at all. Sort of "refined Yorkshire" if there is such a thing ! (that's possibly a paradox!). And ssssssh I don't want too much attention drawn to the quotes.

I'm just baffled why the matter wasn't investigated to its logical end (a diagnosis, maybe?) at the first sign of green discharge... a white cell count maybe? lab work for determining if there's a bacterium/virus in the respiratory system? some sort of proactive measure taken? I'm not a vet, but having a filly who just came down with green discharge, a fever and a cough, this is all fresh in my mind from the vet who came out (15 min. after the discharge was found! on a saturday!) and put all the options on the table for diagnosing what was wrong with her.... I know this BB is a wealth of knowledge, but c'mon...I just.. a year? really?
Now until you said this I had you down for a discerning and intelligent poster. But come come. This isn't a real situation. It's a story. BTR doesn't really have a load of customers seeking her professional advice. It's a fantasy. If on the other hand we're to genuinely believe this is true, then clearly, it's simple. Negligent and failing owner flapping about looking for cheapo advice from any dribbling ninny that happens along and doesn't care who they ask or where they get it.
I'm glad noone involved in this is associated with law enforcement.. "Well, Mr. DA, we looked around the crime scene, couldn't find the perp, so we left. No, we didn't secure the area or bring home evidence, but we figured if the crime was solvable, the criminal would still be there!" Yep and clearly when the pony drops dead with blood loss and some sort of chronic pulmonary condition BTR will have the privilege of saying "Well the vet got that wrong and if only someone had constructively advised me and trained me in diagnostics and veterinary medicine on COTH I maybe could have saved the pony"


Keep talking, someday you'll say something intelligent!

Ghandi walked barefoot everywhere, his feet became quite thick and hard. He was a spiritual person. Even when not on hunger strike, he did'nt eat much for fear of metabollic disorder. He became quite thin and frail. Furthermore, due to his diet, he wound up with very bad breath.
He came to be known as a "Super calloused fragile mystic plagued with halitosis."

[shea'smom]

I am not reading through all this crap, but OP have they considered an ethmoid hematoma? I think I spelled that right.

[BornToRide]

I am not reading through all this crap, but OP have they considered an ethmoid hematoma? I think I spelled that right.Not sure, but I will ask, thank you!

[findeight]

He came to be known as a "Super calloused fragile mystic plagued with halitosis."

Bloody hel, Thomas, that's $4us worth of Starbucks latte on the keyboard and screen
at work, so much for fooling anybody into thinking I am busy. The rest of this dreck and drivel is worthless though.

[trubandloki]

Let me get this straight, BTR.

All your clients have a revelation when they use you as their hoof care provider. Per your previous posts you say that they are amazed at the way you miraculously turn their horses into sound barefoot all natural equines.

These are the same level of clients that let their horse’s nose ooze pus for a year and do not chase down a real diagnosis?

It makes you wonder about their ability to know what a good hoof is and if their horse is really sound on their once per week trail ride. Or maybe there are not really any clients and there is no horse oozing blood and pus from its nose.

[Beasmom]

BTR, please tell me that a competent vet has been called for the horse, or that arrangements have been made to transport it to a good veterinary facility. Blood and green snot requires immediate diagnosis and treatment!

It's been 14 hours since you first posted. I don't know what part of the country you are in, but every minute spent on the web is time stolen from the treatment of this horse. If I had seen a horse exhibiting the symptoms you describe, with the history it has (as per your initial post) I would have called the vet's answering service no matter what time of day and demanded a vet call.

What is happening with the horse? Has the owner called a vet yet, or are you, as the resident pro, in charge of that?

[chancellor2]

trubandloki,
HOW can these natural equines be ridden? You KNOW that isn't normal. Obviously, these horses are sound without being ridden. Or something like that.

[BornToRide]

BTR, please tell me that a competent vet has been called for the horse, or that arrangements have been made to transport it to a good veterinary facility. Blood and green snot requires immediate diagnosis and treatment!

It's been 14 hours since you first posted. I don't know what part of the country you are in, but every minute spent on the web is time stolen from the treatment of this horse. If I had seen a horse exhibiting the symptoms you describe, with the history it has (as per your initial post) I would have called the vet's answering service no matter what time of day and demanded a vet call.

What is happening with the horse? Has the owner called a vet yet, or are you, as the resident pro, in charge of that?Why on earth would I be in charge of my client's horses medical issues???

Yes, and I hope the vet is competent. Vet was not too worried. Horse is still doing well and no more spotting of blood since last night. Urged the owner to have more diagnostics done to make sure nothing serious is going on.

[BornToRide]

Let me get this straight, BTR.

All your clients have a revelation when they use you as their hoof care provider. Per your previous posts you say that they are amazed at the way you miraculously turn their horses into sound barefoot all natural equines.

These are the same level of clients that let their horse’s nose ooze pus for a year and do not chase down a real diagnosis?

It makes you wonder about their ability to know what a good hoof is and if their horse is really sound on their once per week trail ride. Or maybe there are not really any clients and there is no horse oozing blood and pus from its nose.
This makes me wonder about your reading ability and assumptions you (and your peers) make- pus??? What pus?? This horse has a green discharge from food after he eats. Was checked out and scoped by a vet last year who could not find anything unusual.

Every time I see this horse I tell the owner to have a nother vet look at it because it just does not seem OK to me!

Instead of doing some good in the real (horse) world and /or give constructive advise/feedback, all you can master is putting other people down you disagree with on [horse] forums. I guess you really do have nothing better to do with your lives. I know, you'll come up with all sorts of defending statements. Don't bother, your reactions here speak louder than your words ;)

[Beasmom]

For the same reasons you posted about someone else's horse health problem? Don't jump down my throat -- I was merely asking.

So what did the vet diagnose & prescribe for the horse? Since you were either there or have been in touch with the owners, surely you can give more information?

Green snot = something serious. Was this the original vet, or a different one? Because the original vet is either clueless, or the horse's owners have not done their part by keeping on the case to clear up whatever it is that ails the horse.

If they are novice owners, they need to be made aware that allowing this horse to live with a snotty nose and bleeding is unacceptable. They are your clients. Evidently, for good or ill, they depend on you for advice. Glad you urged the client to have more diagnostics done.

[goeslikestink]

Damn good post, GLS.



And can we get a definition of irony? This is it: The original post, with this quote in the signature: "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." ~ Gandhi


Gandhi says call a vet. A REAL ONE. With an actual degree. Not one who will tell you what's wrong with a psychic reading and magic crystals.

and the irony is in that one -- i am a nation-- haha

[goeslikestink]

Ever considered that client A is miles away from client B and the vet may not service the area??

For the stalker crowd - you guys are really pathetic with your assumptions and insults. It is simply amazing that you have essentially nothing better to do than to follow a person(s) around on the internet to bash for differing opinions just to make yourself feel better when you do. Only unhappy people really have the need to behave in such a verbally abusive way and they are usually in denial about it too.

thats you then

sad life you lead

most people actually have the commonsense that when they need a doc or vet or farrier whatever then they call one on the phone or
maybe in your case people pick up the phone and call 911

[Seven-up]

and the irony is in that one -- i am a nation-- haha

You are great, but you're not a nation.:winkgrin:


First sentence was for you. The rest was a separate thought. As in, it's pretty ironic that someone would make a post saying that a horse with green snot, who is now bleeding, has been left without treatment for a year, and then follow it up with the Gandhi quote about how the treatment of animals reflects onto its humans.

[sketcher]

I am not reading through all this crap, but OP have they considered an ethmoid hematoma? I think I spelled that right.

Not sure, but I will ask, thank you!

You mean you will call them up and suggest this as a diagnosis that you came up with after a bit of thought, right? ;)

[sketcher]

Paraphrased from this website:

http://npd.codeps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=27

What is Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

In general, the more of the following traits a person has, the more likely they have NPD.

1. Arrogant toward others. Thinks they are better than everyone else in some (usually unrealistic) way. Very condescending when inappropriate.
2. Exploits others for their own gain, even if it's in a positive way. (Think the coach who does it “for the kids” but everyone knows it's for his own self-aggrandizement.)
3. They think they are operating on a “higher” plain of morality, intelligence, or are superior to others. Will often flaunt the law, but if caught will beg and plead for mercy or try to talk their way out of it. Often feel they are in an exclusive group of people intelligence-wise, even if they have no proof of this.
4.They exaggerate their achievements and abilities. Always bragging about the same things, over and over, even those things that happened decades earlier. Will tell the same self-important stories over and over again.
5.They tend to indulge themselves in the belief that they are important, handsome/beautiful, have sexual prowess, higher intelligence, better business sense than others.
6. May be religiously hypocritical.
7. They hate being corrected, especially in front of an audience.
8. Act like they are an expert in nearly any subject. Or if they meet someone they want to have contact with, they will study up on a subject to be seen as knowledgeable by that person.
9. Will frequently monopolize a conversation unless they realize they don't know anything about the topic. In that rare case, they may sit back and study everyone and everything and you can almost see the wheels turning in their head.
10. If someone they perceive as “superior” to them sees through their mask, they will find ways to avoid them or discredit them.
11. Major double standard. Will hold everyone and everything else to a much higher standard than they hold themselves. Will claim to be at a higher standard while doing the same things they belittle or accuse others of doing.

[ChocoMare]

Paraphrased from this website:

http://npd.codeps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=27

What is Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

In general, the more of the following traits a person has, the more likely they have NPD.

1. Arrogant toward others. Thinks they are better than everyone else in some (usually unrealistic) way. Very condescending when inappropriate.
2. Exploits others for their own gain, even if it's in a positive way. (Think the coach who does it “for the kids” but everyone knows it's for his own self-aggrandizement.)
3. They think they are operating on a “higher” plain of morality, intelligence, or are superior to others. Will often flaunt the law, but if caught will beg and plead for mercy or try to talk their way out of it. Often feel they are in an exclusive group of people intelligence-wise, even if they have no proof of this.
4.They exaggerate their achievements and abilities. Always bragging about the same things, over and over, even those things that happened decades earlier. Will tell the same self-important stories over and over again.
5.They tend to indulge themselves in the belief that they are important, handsome/beautiful, have sexual prowess, higher intelligence, better business sense than others.
6. May be religiously hypocritical.
7. They hate being corrected, especially in front of an audience.
8. Act like they are an expert in nearly any subject. Or if they meet someone they want to have contact with, they will study up on a subject to be seen as knowledgeable by that person.
9. Will frequently monopolize a conversation unless they realize they don't know anything about the topic. In that rare case, they may sit back and study everyone and everything and you can almost see the wheels turning in their head.
10. If someone they perceive as “superior” to them sees through their mask, they will find ways to avoid them or discredit them.
11. Major double standard. Will hold everyone and everything else to a much higher standard than they hold themselves. Will claim to be at a higher standard while doing the same things they belittle or accuse others of doing.

DING... we have a winner.

[magnolia73]

In the realm of vet care- there is stuff that you perhaps don't call the vet on- a scrape, a case of thrush, a bit of fungus. Maybe a bit of lameness if you aren't a serious rider and have some background. But damn- a horse that has blood and green snot coming out- you call the vet. Because that really can't be a minor issue- oh- maybe just allergies- but could be infectous, a tumor, a breathing issue. Probably something that requires care beyond a tab of bute or some sugar free food.

If the vet has no clue, maybe call another one- or hey- novel idea, haul to a clinic with better diagnostics. But to call the trimmer and masseuse? Would you call your chiropracter if you thought you had pneumonia? Do you think they'd say "Hey, let me check online for a diagnosis!". No... they'd say- "hey- go see an MD- would like a recommendation?" ummm... unless they were a quack.

[Dune]

Has the vet arrived yet? I would REALLY like to know what he or she has to say! :yes:

[Moderator 1]

Please keep the focus on the horse in question. Hopefully, there will be a diagnosis to report in the future.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[BornToRide]

Update post #1

[shea'smom]

Wow! How unexpected is that?! How old is the horse, I know it might be buried here somewhere..... because he was surely born that way.
I hope he stays comfortable and enjoys hanging out.

[cloudyandcallie]

Good grief, no one picked that up before? A cleft palate? I've always got my hands in my horse's mouth (and everywhere else) checking for anything wrong.
That should have been picked up by a vet or a dentist, if the owner isn't as neurotic as I am.

I wouldn't use any vet or dentist who has previously examined that horse again.

[BornToRide]

Yep and from what I hear it is rather large too.....again why this was missed by another vet when he scoped the horse last year shortly after my client bought him because of the green nasal discharge after eating I do not understand :no:

The horse is in his teens.

[Beasmom]

Wow. Is the cleft visible with a dental speculum in place, as for teeth floating? I too am surprised a vet could miss something like that, esp. in the course of even a routine dental exam.

[Dazednconfused]

Of course, ANOTHER vet that doesn't know anything.


Is anyone surprised at this point?? :confused:

[BornToRide]

Of course, ANOTHER vet that doesn't know anything.


Is anyone surprised at this point?? :confused: What's your point? :confused:

[Dazednconfused]

What's your point? :confused:

Every time you post a topic like this, vets miss something, are stupid, and don't know anything. EVERY vet in your area is supposedly this way, according to you. In every story, the vet knows nothing, and BTR sits back smugly saying 'I told you so', or "I knew it all along," and so forth.

Pardon me for finding this highly improbable! :lol:

[BornToRide]

Every time you post a topic like this, vets miss something, are stupid, and don't know anything. EVERY vet in your area is supposedly this way, according to you. In every story, the vet knows nothing, and BTR sits back smugly saying 'I told you so', or "I knew it all along," and so forth.

Pardon me for finding this highly improbable! :lol:Don't you have anything better to do?? If you really wanted to be accurate, you would have noted that I NEVER said EVERY vet in my area was inadequate.

Yes, the last vet missed it, when I don't think he should have, but this new vet did an excellent job. Those are the facts. So again, what's your point??!! Ahh yes, being petty and bashing BTR some more - that's really all you came here for, isn't it?? Pardon you for being so childish - again!

[nlk]

Now I have to mention (and I think the last two post are along this line...) While everyone is flaming BTR for everything under the sun (and given past history understandable to an extent) She comes on here with a diagnosis of cleft palate and everyone jumps on the why didn't the vet catch this before?

BTR I am not saying this is the case I am just saying it's amazing how fast moods change ....but I have to play devils Advocate here.

Where was the cleft palate? was it causing an infection? why wasn't the horse treated with general antibiotic to see if that helped when they couldn't find the cause (green = infection in my book). How can someone say a dentist or vet didn't notice (like asked above) have these people never had a dentist do their horses teeth? Are they having someone who is not a "equine dentist" do them instead? I want answers...I don't know doesn't cut it. If this diagnosis wasn't pulled out with a finger pointing at a book, then I want answers because I find this interesting, so if you don't know go ask.

On the other hand. One of my boarders horses was prone to nose bleeds it does not = death (I think that came from goeslikestink?) it is not that uncommon and is not usually dangerous much like a nose bleed in us VIA vet. however there is a possibility of an aneurysm type tumor in the sinus cavity that can cause this as well. So While I don't think it is cause for an emergency call to the vet if all else is normal and the bled subsides if it is constant or frequent get it checked out.

Also I don't think it's necessary to attack BTR about the riding practices of these people. It is not her horse nor did she say she advised them to ride the horse with a snotty horse or that she agreed or disagreed with it.

Again given her history I understand BUT inquiring minds sometime just want to know, I know I have asked questions just to talk to others about it. Sometimes others give you ideas that you haven't thought of. I like to ask incase I ever run into it personally OR again.

[BornToRide]

He had his teeth done before, but not by an equine dentist. Many average horse owners around here don't even know that there are some vets that specialize in just doing teeth, especially folks somewhat new to horses, as this client is.

He was scoped just for the nasal discharge last year shortly after purchase. Vet could not find anything unusual and horse was not treated from what I was told, probably because it only happens after he eats and he had no other symptoms. Vet told owner "It's just him"

[nlk]

He had his teeth done before, but not by an equine dentist. Many average horse owners around here don't even know that there are some vets that specialize in just doing teeth, especially folks somewhat new to horses, as this client is.

He was scoped just for the nasal discharge last year shortly after purchase. Vet could not find anything unusual and horse was not treated from what I was told, probably because it only happens after he eats and he had no other symptoms. Vet told owner "It's just him"

So maybe food was getting stuck there creating discharge? Doesn't explain green though?

[BornToRide]

So maybe food was getting stuck there creating discharge? Doesn't explain green though? It looks green , like a green veggie smoothie. I believe it is a mix of either fine particles and/or chewed up grass/hay mixed with saliva. It has a nice bright green color, like a hay/grass smoothie would look like if you made one. ;)

It is definitely not puss oozing out.

[marta]

He had his teeth done before, but not by an equine dentist. Many average horse owners around here don't even know that there are some vets that specialize in just doing teeth, especially folks somewhat new to horses, as this client is.



if not by a dentist and it appears not by a vet then by who?

[MistyBlue]

So all along it was food reflux and nobody knew the difference between food reflux and snot? :confused:

[findeight]

Ummm...

Why was it bleeding?

[trubandloki]

So all along it was food reflux and nobody knew the difference between food reflux and snot? :confused:

:yes:


It would have been easier for all of us is BTR had described the green the way she describes it now in her original post.

The logical deduction when someone says green nose ooze is infected snot, not grass smoothy green. :yes:

[Beasmom]

More questions than answers! Enquiring minds want to know! BTR, spill the beans!

[Seven-up]

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the united NATION of STINKY
And to the republic of which it stands
one NATION under STINKY
with liberty and justice for all


:winkgrin::lol::lol::lol:


It all makes sense now. At least to me and GLS!

[MistyBlue]

A client's horse always has a green discharge through his nostrils after he ate. Was checked out by a vet last year and vet said that he could not find anything unusual. Said maybe it is allergies.

I assumed that green discharge that a vet thinks is allergies would be snot, not reflux or pus. However green snot is usually infection...and horse's don't discharge food for allergies.
I would also guess a vet would scope for nasal discharge if the discharge were blood or pus to find an injury or issue. Would they normally scope for reflux or green snot?
Food reflux is pretty easy to identify...which is why we all freak out when we see choke. We know exactly what food discharge looks like, so I would imagine a vet would know that.
I would also think if food is flowing between mouth and nostril like it would for a cleft, the food would look like just chewed/partially chewed hay or grass or grain. Not a smooth slime.
Maybe the blood was from a head hit or irritation from the reflux?

[nlk]

:yes:


It would have been easier for all of us is BTR had described the green the way she describes it now in her original post.

The logical deduction when someone says green nose ooze is infected snot, not grass smoothy green. :yes:

agreed...I had a horse who coughed chewed carrots out his nose once, it was really gross but it would have made since to me if it was described that way

[nlk]

BTR maybe you should attend a writers class so you can describe things better and not do so much back peddling.....

On the other note nasal discharge could simply be the cause of the bleed. Having half chewed hay/grass coming out your nose for a year is enough to irritate any nose to bleeding....

However I would think that an infection is also some part to blame.

My line of thinking is hay goes through nose and over time rubs it raw or gives it a laceration. Laceration becomes infected. So every time the horse eats it is irritating the abscess type pocket causing pus discharge. There is a good possibility that it stops after eating due to swelling. The horse has probably been dealing with this for so long that it is probably VERY inflamed. But that's just how I think it COULD go.

Either way person needs to invest in a real dentist ( which could help with the amount of food that passes through the nasal cavity.) and keep the vet who found the cleft palate. Also horse likely needs antibiotics much like a person with acid reflux who has an infected esophagus.

[AnotherRound]

this is the most improbable thing I have ever heard. A horse is born with a cleft palate, it doesn't just happen, and during nursing that milk would be coming out his nose and the palate discovered there and then. Nobody noticed the horse has his food pushed out his nostrils before, ever, in his life? The horse would have a hard time nursing, its not something you can hide.

Also, the green chewed food would be immediately obvious as just that, when you saw it, and you would not be able to mix it up with a infection/mucous discharge, as you originally did. they don't look even remotely the same. Why didn't you say he had food coming out his nose to start with?

so here are two questions:

How do you explain that he never had food coming out his nose at other times in his life

How do you explain that you could not see chewed food coming out his nose at the begining of the thread

It sounds like you are making this up. No sane person can mistake chewed hay and or grain and pellets/food for mucous. Noone could fail to notice any of this, throughout his life. I also have a hard time understanding a horse with even a small cleft palate living into its teens without health consequences, but that's just me.

[arabhorse2]

A cleft palate is an uncommon congenital defect in the foal that usually is the result of a developmental defect of the soft palate, and in rare occasions, the hard palate. This defect most often is detected at birth through the use of an endoscope.

Symptoms of a cleft palate include bilateral nasal discharge during eating, difficulty swallowing, and signs of aspiration pneumonia.

The most obvious symptom of a cleft palate is milk or other feed coming out of one or both nostrils. The palate serves to separate the mouth from the nose, and when there is a defect, food taken by mouth spills into the nasal passages and out the nose. This nasal regurgitation of milk is most obvious during nursing. Foals also will show secondary signs such as poor weight gain, pneumonia, and general unthriftiness.

Occasionally, horses exhibit signs that are subtle enough that the problem is missed for several weeks to months. There even have been unusual cases in which horses managed to be one or two years old before a cleft palate was diagnosed.

The prognosis for a foal with a cleft palate varies, depending on the severity of the problem. If the cleft does not involve a significant amount of the hard palate, then chances for a successful recovery increase. However, the prognosis for normal upper respiratory tract function, including soft palate function, is quite guarded. There have been too few repaired and followed over time to have a firm idea of the consequences of surgery on the animal's athletic potential.

Many horses will never achieve normal ‘athletic’ function, yet are serviceable for lesser activities, including breeding.

Foals which are treated before six weeks of age show the most improvement since after that time, aspiration pneumonia complicates the outcome.

I call complete and utter BS on the original post and the "update".

A cleft palate would have been caught VERY early on, and this horse would have had chronic pneumonia and probably died as a foal, if it hadn't been.

[AnotherRound]

I agree, AH. sounds like the OP looked up "bilateral nasal discharge" and hit upon something to post.

[arabhorse2]

What royally frosts my tuna about all this AR, is BTR's obvious disdain for anyone who questions Her Nibs' omniscience.

She apparently thinks we're all a bunch of ignorant morons, because it's painfully transparent that this whole story is nothing but a made up piece of crap.

Plus, I don't know anyone who would call their farrier for a health problem. I adore my farrier and call him for a lot of things, but vet care sure isn't one of them!

So she'll either completely ignore this thread now, or backpedal so fast it'll make our heads swim.

Someone should save her orginal post as well as the update, since I have a feeling it'll either be deleted, or altered to make BTR look less clueless.

[trubandloki]

Update - for anyone who's truly interested: just got a call from the owner after a visit to a local Equine Clinic - horse has a cleft palate. Why this was missed by the other vet last year when he was scoped him is a mystery to us at this point. Long term prognosis - probably mostly pasture ornament, which I'm sure he will enjoy. :)

___________________________________________

A client's horse always has a green discharge through his nostrils after he ate. Was checked out by a vet last year and vet said that he could not find anything unusual. Said maybe it is allergies. Horse is otherwise healthy and eating normal. Client had him for a little over a year now.

Horse had a bad worm infestation that was finally eradicated 2 months ago, but nasal discharge remains. Tonight I got a call because they are now also dripping some blood that according to the owner he's never had before and it is definitely not from a scratch on the nostrils. It is coming our from both nostrils.

He's still eating well and behaving normally. This horse is basically a pasture pony that is used for trail riding once a week or so.

Have any of you had similar experiences with nasal discharge like this after eating and even some blood? If so, what was the cause?

I doubt she will edit it or delete it. That would require her to come back to this thread. I believe it has officially become an ignored thread to BTR.

AH, thanks for the post on cleft palate. Very informative. I learned stuff.

[arabhorse2]

You're welcome, Trub.

I thought the story was whonky right from the start, but when the "diagnosis" was a cleft palate, I knew we had another piece of (badly written) fiction on our hands.

[findeight]

She apparently thinks we're all a bunch of ignorant morons...

How ignorant can you be to miss chewed food (and now blood) coming out the nose of a horse you, as an equine health professional, are working regularly with for at least a year?

[BornToRide]

A cleft palate is an uncommon congenital defect in the foal that usually is the result of a developmental defect of the soft palate, and in rare occasions, the hard palate. This defect most often is detected at birth through the use of an endoscope.

Symptoms of a cleft palate include bilateral nasal discharge during eating, difficulty swallowing, and signs of aspiration pneumonia.

The most obvious symptom of a cleft palate is milk or other feed coming out of one or both nostrils. The palate serves to separate the mouth from the nose, and when there is a defect, food taken by mouth spills into the nasal passages and out the nose. This nasal regurgitation of milk is most obvious during nursing. Foals also will show secondary signs such as poor weight gain, pneumonia, and general unthriftiness.

Occasionally, horses exhibit signs that are subtle enough that the problem is missed for several weeks to months. There even have been unusual cases in which horses managed to be one or two years old before a cleft palate was diagnosed.

The prognosis for a foal with a cleft palate varies, depending on the severity of the problem. If the cleft does not involve a significant amount of the hard palate, then chances for a successful recovery increase. However, the prognosis for normal upper respiratory tract function, including soft palate function, is quite guarded. There have been too few repaired and followed over time to have a firm idea of the consequences of surgery on the animal's athletic potential.

Many horses will never achieve normal ‘athletic’ function, yet are serviceable for lesser activities, including breeding.

Foals which are treated before six weeks of age show the most improvement since after that time, aspiration pneumonia complicates the outcome.

I call complete and utter BS on the original post and the "update".

A cleft palate would have been caught VERY early on, and this horse would have had chronic pneumonia and probably died as a foal, if it hadn't been.Would you like to talk to the vet directly?!The BS is all yours and anyone else who keeps making assumptions about this case. I have no need to make up stories, unlike some folks here! I honestly wanted to get some constructive feedback because the original vet could not find anything unusual and the owner was worried when she saw bleeding too. I kept telling her throughout the year to get the discharge checked out again by another vet. I can only make recommendations. Thank you for the few posters who actually cared enough!

Perhaps you should also note that not everything written in books is 100% accurate either!

[Quinn]

Some of you may or may not be interested in the following but for those of you who are.....

My foal "The Flying Scotsman" aka Scottie was born in 1985. He was out of my TB mare "Bunty Quillo" and by "Marengo" a Holsteiner. My mare died 24 hours after foaling. We were lucky to get fresh colostrum from a big TB breeding farm and started bottle feeding Scottie. He was a very tiny guy weighing in at birth at maybe 90 pounds. Once we started bottle feeding him, we noticed milk literally streaming out his nose. He was much too tiny to scope and our Vet hoped it was just a slow to develop suck reflex.

When he was big enough to scope, they discovered a fairly significant cleft palate. At rest it was the size of a dime but when he swallowed, it was as large as a silver dollar. At the time, there were few options available and I just took it a day at a time. When he grazed and then drank, there would be a stream of green coming out his nose. His name changed from Scottie to Snotty but he learned how to clear his nasal passages and was exceptionally athletic. He could cough up a wad of whatever happened to be in there at the time but we became so accustomed to it. His stall looked like a starving artist had been in there attempting wall art. Big blobs and gobs everywhere. My Vet would scope him every couple of years and said although it looked like a salad bar going down, his lungs were clear. He could jump like a stag and never had a breathing problem. I put him down at 21 but only because he had become a cribber as a yearling and because of his physical ailment, could not wear a cribbing strap. He was becoming less thrifty as time went on and I couldn't keep weight on him. It was time. There is a caboose on this long train of thought. Unless you saw him eat and snot, you would never know he had such a serious problem. He went to one show in his life and did the 3'6" jumpers. He won.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[MistyBlue]

Ahh, but the clincher is...he was diagnosed before reaching full maturity and a few owners, right? ;)
Nobody spent years either not noticing it or ignoring it hoping it would go away?

I honestly wanted to get some constructive feedback because the original vet could not find anything unusual and the owner was worried when she saw bleeding too. I kept telling her throughout the year to get the discharge checked out again by another vet. I can only make recommendations.
The constructive feedback you received that you didn't like was what diagnosed this horse according to you: The horse needs a vet.
Few are brave enough to give a massage therapist and hoof trimmer medical advice to pass along to clients on an issue badly explained online.
Green discharge means snot to 99.9% of the population of horse owners.
Bloody nose after a year's worth of green nasal discharge means Call A Vet. Period. Not Consult A Horse BB.
Your clients ignored your advice for a year of getting a new vet to look at the horse. Why? They were quick enough to get the first vet out and do everything including scoping the horse...although if a vet saw the discharge they'd have known it was food reflux. :confused: Is it possible your clients are hearing that vets don't know a whole lot often and that's why they didn't call a vet? They seem to take a lot of stock in what you say if they felt a need to call *you* when the bleeding started. IME newbie horse owners see blood and call in the Armed Services if they can...as long as those newbie horse owners haven't heard that vets all suck and there aren't any decent ones in their area. So if they call You for an emergency...why didn't they listen to you for a year about calling a new vet?
Can you not see how this isn't exactly believable as it's been presented? A horse has an issue...a long term health issue and the owners aren't consulting vets but their massage and hoof trimming person. Makes one wonder what that massage and hoof trimming person has been teaching these newbie owners. Which has been a common theme all along when people on this forum debate stuff like lack of education in certifications of barefoot trimmers and massage therapists...that these folks aren;t qualified enough to give medical diagnosis to their clients and that many of those who argue for the massage/trimmer side claim they NEVER do that. Well, it seems they do try to diagnose and do it via the internet, they do give medical advice and they do tend to have clients who for some odd reason don't trust those "money grubbing uneducated dingbat vets."

[Beasmom]

Well, well, that's interesting. Any vet that can't see a cleft palate upon scoping the horse is no vet. That this horse made it to its teens without having this diagnosed is pretty unbelievable.

Cool story about Scotty/Snotty!

[nlk]

Would you like to talk to the vet directly?!The BS is all yours and anyone else who keeps making assumptions about this case. I have no need to make up stories, unlike some folks here! I honestly wanted to get some constructive feedback because the original vet could not find anything unusual and the owner was worried when she saw bleeding too. I kept telling her throughout the year to get the discharge checked out again by another vet. I can only make recommendations. Thank you for the few posters who actually cared enough!

Perhaps you should also note that not everything written in books is 100% accurate either!

Yes actually I would like to speak to the vet, can you PM me the information?


On another note. If the people just bought this horse they could have not be given th e whole information. So say a year ago they bought this horse and noticed discharge....if a previous owner was trying to sell the horse they might not have passed on this info. also if the horses teeth was done by a self taught dentist and the vet didn't look for the palate (but rather a scope of the stomach...) there is a possibility it was missed...low but possible.

Again BTR if you could PM me the info I would love to talk to the vet on this case....

[Foxtrot's]

Interesting story, Quinn.

[goeslikestink]

Would you like to talk to the vet directly?!The BS is all yours and anyone else who keeps making assumptions about this case. I have no need to make up stories, unlike some folks here! I honestly wanted to get some constructive feedback because the original vet could not find anything unusual and the owner was worried when she saw bleeding too. I kept telling her throughout the year to get the discharge checked out again by another vet. I can only make recommendations. Thank you for the few posters who actually cared enough!

Perhaps you should also note that not everything written in books is 100% accurate either!

if its in a vets journel or under a vet describtion then i think it would be true as they work on facts and not fiction

as i said in a previous posting -- i beleive you googled the info to come up with an answer to redeem yourself




this is a wormed damaged horse thats still ridden and is underweight and ill
and tht is degusting -- and the owners are going by what you say is 100% fact which is aload of bs

plus if not and still riding it anyways is desgusting - period

time and time again you have been proven that your information you give to others is incorrect and down right dangerous
for both human and horse

if it had a cleft palate it would have been found via vet or dentist the horse is surpose to be in his teens ---- so obviously not been in the same home as this surposedly horse is new to the owner of at least one year

so during his lifespan so far he would have been seen by many vets and no doubt would have had ppe's and such like due to his age as more than likely had a hard working life as hes good on trials and in lessons so he is a sort after horse as in a general all rounder type so therefore would have had a past history and in that history are previous owners etc

and therefore had he had a cleft palete it would either have shown up in previous examniations as it wouldnt be missed and should have been in added in the advert of sale or spoke about from one owner to the next or in his medical records as in on his card

of which there is nothing and if he had a clef palate it would have been found early in life and the horse more than likely would be pts


you have inconsistencies in your storey---------- or long tale

once upon a time ... myths were born

horses that have worm damaged such as this one need proper attention worms can cause death
and serious infections cuase green snot which can look like a smoothy as describe by self

so if this horse isnt wormed damaged then it does have a serious infection in which it should be
A-- in quarantine
b-- call a vet --
c-- the yard should be closed
d-- high hygene protocol
e-- all yard in vicinity should be told so that they can take precuations against an outbreak of potential infectious decease
f-- no movement from the yard -- ie trials , shows or events to keep the decease under control
g-- all horses in same yard should be monitored as precautionary to contain the decease and treat all horses if nessecary


h-- hygene protocol is a must -- which includes
foot bath on entry exit,, for humans all vechiles tyres wheel arches and undercarriage to be washed with proper disfectant
all equipment tack brushes brooms and stables etc to be disfected
to include having a change of clothes and rubber gloves and bin bags so clothes can be washed and disfected
all items used via vets or self as in cotton wooll etc to be burnt

[Thomas_1]

Update post #1.... CLEFT PALLATE How was it missed by the stupid owner?

Come to that how was it missed by the dentist? How did you miss it when you were there being asked by it's owner why it was pouring snot and blood?

Further evidence that having to take a test before buying a horse might not be such a bad idea!

But of course I actually don't even believe this story. I'm thinking that at very best BTR has been totally suckered in by a negligent owner who has just got round to getting the vet out. But truth be told, I'm actually thinking that no way on this planet would anyone knowing there's chewed food coming out of the horse's nose wouldn't think "cleft pallate" first and foremost.

Though it was a little difficult us trying to second guess with the daft and woefully inaccurate description we were given! Further evidence why you don't ask the Self-purported for advice!

There's no way on this planet that any competent horse person wouldn't know that a horse had a cleft pallate. I include any vet (not a horse vet even), an equine dentist, a horse trainer, anyone that knew what horses do when they eat, anyone going to try to figure why it was pouring food out of it's nose and because of a congenital defect it's had since birth.

[chancellor2]

I'd like to talk to the vet. So, can you send me the information?

NOW, this thread will OFFICIALLY be ignored by BTR.

[rcloisonne]

Does anyone honestly think ANY vet has been involved with this horse at ANY time it's been under BTR's expert care? :rolleyes:

Dollars to doughnuts the poor horse will go on sufferin' until it expires from a bleedout and/or overwhelming infection. :mad:

[MistyBlue]

She is replying to other threads...this one seems to have become invisible. Can you put whole threads on ignore?

[Pancakes]

Perhaps this horse has a fungal infection so bad it's eaten through the palate, or some other infection/osteomyelitis. So maybe it's an acquired cleft in the palate.

I've seen horses with gutteral pouch mycosis eat through the dorsopharyngeal recess and bone before...wouldn't be the first time.

Still, it warrants further investigation. I won't comment on BTR because I think I'm pretty much in the same boat as everyone else.

[Beasmom]

Ooh, Pancakes, how awful! Ewwwww.

No, BTR might check in here, but we'll probably not see another reply from her.

[goeslikestink]

cancer can be of the mouth region to include inside so pancake your thery could be a possiability but again a vet would do some intensive tests and investigations of which ther no proven threads or posts to back up ones claims

[cloudyandcallie]

Some of you may or may not be interested in the following but for those of you who are.....

My foal "The Flying Scotsman" aka Scottie was born in 1985. He was out of my TB mare "Bunty Quillo" and by "Marengo" a Holsteiner. My mare died 24 hours after foaling. We were lucky to get fresh colostrum from a big TB breeding farm and started bottle feeding Scottie. He was a very tiny guy weighing in at birth at maybe 90 pounds. Once we started bottle feeding him, we noticed milk literally streaming out his nose. He was much too tiny to scope and our Vet hoped it was just a slow to develop suck reflex.

When he was big enough to scope, they discovered a fairly significant cleft palate. At rest it was the size of a dime but when he swallowed, it was as large as a silver dollar. At the time, there were few options available and I just took it a day at a time. When he grazed and then drank, there would be a stream of green coming out his nose. His name changed from Scottie to Snotty but he learned how to clear his nasal passages and was exceptionally athletic. He could cough up a wad of whatever happened to be in there at the time but we became so accustomed to it. His stall looked like a starving artist had been in there attempting wall art. Big blobs and gobs everywhere. My Vet would scope him every couple of years and said although it looked like a salad bar going down, his lungs were clear. He could jump like a stag and never had a breathing problem. I put him down at 21 but only because he had become a cribber as a yearling and because of his physical ailment, could not wear a cribbing strap. He was becoming less thrifty as time went on and I couldn't keep weight on him. It was time. There is a caboose on this long train of thought. Unless you saw him eat and snot, you would never know he had such a serious problem. He went to one show in his life and did the 3'6" jumpers. He won.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff'j

What a good owner! And congradulations on getting him to live to 21.
Most foals with cleft palates cannot suck properly and therefore die, or are put down by their owners. So I've never seen a horse with a cleft palate.
I have seen horses with abscessed teeth that owners did not "notice":confused: and let blow out thru the jaw.:eek: And I would think that some abscesses could "eat thru" the palate, but any vet or dentist who looks in a horse's mouth and doesn't see that should turn in his/her credentials.

Wiat a minute, lampus (did I spell that right?) can cause pus in the mouth, but I don't think the infection can eat up thru the nostrils, can it Pancakes?

[Pancakes]

'j

What a good owner! And congradulations on getting him to live to 21.
Most foals with cleft palates cannot suck properly and therefore die, or are put down by their owners. So I've never seen a horse with a cleft palate.
I have seen horses with abscessed teeth that owners did not "notice":confused: and let blow out thru the jaw.:eek: And I would think that some abscesses could "eat thru" the palate, but any vet or dentist who looks in a horse's mouth and doesn't see that should turn in his/her credentials.

Wiat a minute, lampus (did I spell that right?) can cause pus in the mouth, but I don't think the infection can eat up thru the nostrils, can it Pancakes?


Hmm, I'm not sure what you're thinking of...

I think that an infection that eats through to bone causing osteomyelitis could in theory eat a cleft, but you'd have a horse with much more severe clinical signs (fever, inappetance, draining pus/discharge through the mouth) first before that would happen. Osteomyelitis also tends to not become lytic and break bone until very severe; you'd notice major signs first. I suppose it could happen the opposite way through the nasal cavity into the mouth, but that is again unlikely -- it would have been evident from the onset. I know that fungal infections can be very aggressive so I was thinking that, but again, I'm just grasping for straws/possibilities here.

Maybe it is possible the horse did have a cleft palate that went unnoticed by the breeder, and this one happened to get lucky enough that it survived. The odds would be against it, but I suppose it could happen.

[BornToRide]

Some of you may or may not be interested in the following but for those of you who are.....

My foal "The Flying Scotsman" aka Scottie was born in 1985. He was out of my TB mare "Bunty Quillo" and by "Marengo" a Holsteiner. My mare died 24 hours after foaling. We were lucky to get fresh colostrum from a big TB breeding farm and started bottle feeding Scottie. He was a very tiny guy weighing in at birth at maybe 90 pounds. Once we started bottle feeding him, we noticed milk literally streaming out his nose. He was much too tiny to scope and our Vet hoped it was just a slow to develop suck reflex.

When he was big enough to scope, they discovered a fairly significant cleft palate. At rest it was the size of a dime but when he swallowed, it was as large as a silver dollar. At the time, there were few options available and I just took it a day at a time. When he grazed and then drank, there would be a stream of green coming out his nose. His name changed from Scottie to Snotty but he learned how to clear his nasal passages and was exceptionally athletic. He could cough up a wad of whatever happened to be in there at the time but we became so accustomed to it. His stall looked like a starving artist had been in there attempting wall art. Big blobs and gobs everywhere. My Vet would scope him every couple of years and said although it looked like a salad bar going down, his lungs were clear. He could jump like a stag and never had a breathing problem. I put him down at 21 but only because he had become a cribber as a yearling and because of his physical ailment, could not wear a cribbing strap. He was becoming less thrifty as time went on and I couldn't keep weight on him. It was time. There is a caboose on this long train of thought. Unless you saw him eat and snot, you would never know he had such a serious problem. He went to one show in his life and did the 3'6" jumpers. He won.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduffThank you, I will pass this on to the owner - might make her feel a bit better :-) This horses lungs were also clear. Hoepfully he will have a good few years left :)

[goeslikestink]

Thank you, I will pass this on to the owner - might make her feel a bit better :-) This horses lungs were also clear. Hoepfully he will have a good few years left :)

btr-- you still need a vet and to be fair as this horse older then is it wise to keep the poor thing alive when s underweight and full of worms

[Thomas_1]

Thank you, I will pass this on to the owner - might make her feel a bit better :-) This horses lungs were also clear. Hoepfully he will have a good few years left :) Erm why would it make her feel better?

Quinn had a foal with a diagnosed cleft pallate properly and effectively monitored and managed.

The one you're posting about is clearly at best in the hands of a negligent owner and with a vet that can't see a hole with a scope. Sorry but I'm still not buying it. NO WAY.

As I said earlier if a horse has chewed food coming out of it's nose then it's pretty obvious that it's a cleft pallate to look for. You of course have amended your initial posting but you said bilateral green snot and blood though and that it was an older horse that had been in ownership for a year and had previously been scoped.

The vet's number would be hugely appreciated to understand this case history because clearly we're not getting reality from you.

Which part of the palate is affected?

So what is this supposed negligent owner and incompetent vet doing now?

Investigating the possibility of pneumonia or infection because of aspirated food ?

Just waiting for aspiration pneumonia (or was it something else causing the blood and snot?) to kill the horse?

Putting the horse forward as a clinical case study? (you do know don't you how exceptional it is for a horse to be managed past being a foal without a cleft palate having been diagnosed)

Having it surgically repaired?

Getting some self purported ga-ga horse woman to post on the internet to tell the story and ask what to do?

[chancellor2]

And once again, BTR makes an offer (to let someone talk to the vet) when it makes her look good...but doesn't follow through.

[sketcher]

And once again, BTR makes an offer (to let someone talk to the vet) when it makes her look good...but doesn't follow through.

It was an empty offer anyway since it isn't her horse, a feeble attempt to pretend to lend herself some credibility. The owner would have to give permission for people they don't know to call their vet to discuss their horse. Right.

[nlk]

It was an empty offer anyway since it isn't her horse, a feeble attempt to pretend to lend herself some credibility. The owner would have to give permission for people they don't know to call their vet to discuss their horse. Right.

ditto

[Androcles]

As I said earlier if a horse has chewed food coming out of it's nose then it's pretty obvious that it's a cleft pallate to look for. You of course have amended your initial posting but you said bilateral green snot and blood though and that it was an older horse that had been in ownership for a year and had previously been scoped.



Hopefully from now on people will quote her posts in entirety, so as to prevent her from doing so in future such threads she starts.

[ReeseTheBeast]

EEEWWWW! just had an image of bubble blowing, greeny, kid boogers that *some* parents let their kids smear all over the grocery store :eek:

you mean owners like that?

:lol: :eek: :lol: :eek: :lol: :eek:

HAHAHA

That is so gross!!!! And I know exactly what you're talking about!!

Those are the same kind of parents who send their kids to summer camp and/or riding lessons with those same greeny, snot-bubble boogers... I will confess that the kids in question were never shown the proper way to hold the reins, because that would have required me touching their hands (which were also covered in that crap).

:uhoh: :o :no: :dead: :eek: