The worst of the worst right here.

[equinegrl4lyf]

This truely shows how angry people are and how people need to relax and BREATH and think about things before they are accused or said....

its sad:eek::cry:

[cowgirljenn]

I do NOT want to call the vet until abs. Necessary. i can't afford 5,000 in x-rays!

I know you don't want to call the vet, but it is TIME TO CALL THE VET. You've tried treating this on your own with the help of your farrier - it didn't work. So call your vet. I would have called the vet before deciding the horse had foundered and treating her for founder. With hoof/leg problems, waiting around and seeing or mistreating them can make them worse.

[LMH]

xrays are only a couple hundred bucks at the most.

films should not run more than $50 per shot I would think.

[chancellor2]

I'm sure it will NOT be long before BornToRide comes on here and tells you that you need to have the horse trimmed barefoot and take away all NSC's and take the horse off alfalfa.
I will tell you that the best thing you can do is call your veterinarian. Coming to a internet bulletin board for advice instead of calling your vet is a VERY BAD IDEA. There is a LOT of BS on the internet.

[Androcles]

It sounds like whatever happened during the lease, was not good for her. It does sound like founder, which horses don't recover from in a month. Horses tend to abscess post founder, and she could have gone sound from an abscess clearing up, then been okay for a while, and a new abscess can have started up, which is what happens in bad founder cases. Which means, you should call the vet. If you can't afford to give your horse the care it needs, you shouldn't have a horse.

[Simkie]

Agree that you NEED TO CALL THE VET.

It won't be $5000. It might be $500.

[spotmenow]

CALL THE VET.

[LMH]

Then find another vet.

$3000 is absurd and just doesn't seem right.

You need a vet.

You need films.

[blackhorse6]

You may need to find a different vet.. x-rays are usually $40.00 a view plus farm call. If your horse has foundered, proper shoeing is necessary to support the hoof and alien it in the proper position. And yes, abcesses are part of the territory once a horse has had laminitis. Good luck!

[chaltagor]

thank you for your advise about not needing to own a horse but you DO NOT KNOW what has happened so you saying stuff like this is unnecessary.

Neither do you, so I'll say the same to you. It's all conjecture and blather.

The more you wait to call the vet, the more it's going to cost you and your horse.

[joiedevie99]

Agreed- you can x-ray every single joint in the horse, ultrasound all four legs, and do a full pre-purchase exam with an FEI certified Olympic team vet for 3,000. You should be able to x-ray both front feet with a competent vet for 300-500.

Honestly, if you know your vet is expensive- get a new one. Better yet, call around. Tell whoever that your horse is in bad shape and you only have xxx to spend. Would the vet be willing to come do whatever he can? The vet isn't going to condemn you if you set a price limit. Even if you say no x-rays, the vet will know a lot just by looking and that shouldn't cost more than 100.

[Hampton Bay]

I can see how the xrays taken before purchasing the horse might have been $3000 if you had a bunch of views taken. However, a view of each front hoof will not be the same as having extensive films done on all 4 legs for a PPE.

And 1 flake of hay per day is simply not enough forage for a horse unless she is turned out almost all of the time.

If her hooves were soft to the touch, is it possible the farrier just trimmed them way too short? That can lead to pretty severe lameness.

But only the vet is going to be able to help you with the horse. We cannot see her. If you don't like the vet you used for the PPE, find a different one. Call them ahead of time and tell them the symptoms, and tell them you can only afford so much money. They may be able to take payments, or maybe they can keep the diagnostics within your budget.

But continuing to let her be in pain when you have not even tried to call the vet is not fair to the horse. Even if you cannot afford her, if she was really purchased for $17k you can probably find someone who will take her for free. Post her on the giveaways.

[jaimebaker]

What does 'the center of the foot looks squishy' mean?? The frog or the sole?? If the mare was not noticeably sore before she got trimmed, it seems pretty obvious to me that she was over trimmed. A horse should NOT be sore after a trim. If the soles are 'squishy' it sounds like he parred too much sole back and the horse may be thin soled. Get Durasole on the bottom of those soles to thicken and harden. Durasole will actually THICKEN them. Anything else like turpentine or Keratex is just going to harden, not thicken. Get her on styrofoam pads for some immediate comfort. Go to Walmart and buy some styrofoam...a cooler if you have to, cut it to shape to her hooves about 3 inches thick (her weight will compress the styro down to very an inch or less). Duct tape it to her feet. Change it out every day or other day. To heck with aspirin, that's not even giving her relief but for a couple of hours. Get her on bute, U-gard and some probiotics to keep her tummy happy while she's on the bute. And let her out to move around. Don't drag her around, just let her out where she has to walk. Put her hay in separate piles where she has to move. Movement increases blood flow, increases hoof growth so she can get past this. Oh and while you're at it, find a new farrier. Oh, and a new vet that doesn't rip people off. Rads should be $50 or less.

Have you checked her digital pulse yet??? Even without heat if she has a bounding pulse, you can have a problem. If you aren't going to get a vet out until the last minute, the least you can do is get the mare some relief.

[Posting Trot]

You need to get the vet out or else you end up with a horse that you'll have to put down.

Be upfront with the vet that you will need a payment plan. $3000 for x-rays of the hooves sounds very steep to me. Have you actually been quoted that price or is that a guess?

What did the farrier say? Did he have any idea about what was wrong?

Good luck.

[Seven-up]

Something smells fishy here, but assuming this is for real...


Sorry, diagnosing a horse over the internet that no one has seen is not what you need. It's not real clear from the description being given what the problem even is. Therefore, taking advice from well meaning posters here would be foolish.

Your PPE x-rays most likely cost that much because they x-rayed feet, fetlocks, knees, hocks, stifles, etc. etc.

You don't even know how much rads are per shot because you haven't called to ask. Furthermore, you don't know what x-rays are needed or if they are needed at all. For all you (or any of us) know, you might not even need them. The farrier might have trimmed too much sole off. We can't tell because we can't see the horse.

Call the vet. Ask for prices, then call another vet and ask for more prices. Once you know what things cost, have someone come out, whether it's expensive or not. It needs to be done. If your baby was sick, would you take it to the doctor or would you solicit internet advice because doctors are expensive?

No one is confused about what you should do except you. CALL THE VET. That's the answer. End of story. I'm sorry to be harsh, but if your next response contains anything other than "I already called the vet and he's coming out ____day" then you might as well not respond at all.


Edit: You posted as I was typing this. I see you spoke to a vet. I surely hope you plan to follow thru with the vet instead of taping styrofoam on your horse's feet because it's free, and vets aren't. Jamiebaker is giving sound advice, and I'm sure she means well, but remember that she hasn't seen your horse and the vet needs to in order to do what's right for your horse.

[Androcles]

She isn't on really any hay maybe a flake a day. Her weight is okay.
Why is she getting so little hay?


I am more interested in why it may have disappeared...is this common in founder...may sound stupid but i have NEVER thankfully had to experience this

This was already answered - see above.

[JLR1]

Your poor horse is suffering...call the vet.

[chaltagor]

Your poor horse is suffering...call the vet.

Don't you understand she has a baby? She's not like anyone else, she can't just call the vet (to come out and actually SEE the horse, that is).

[joiedevie99]

If you can't afford the current vet, it doesn't matter what all he has done for you over the years- and if that is true you would think he would help you out with a payment plan or come take a look with an agreed upon budget.

And no one is telling you that you are a crappy horse owner. People are telling you that now that your parents aren't paying- you need to be the adult and provide for your horse just like you would your child. No one is telling you to spend money you don't have- but people are disputing the fact that you have done all you can. Yes it can be uncomfortable, but the responsible thing to do is try to find some middle ground- whether that means finding a different vet, asking for a payment plan, or telling the current vet that you only have $250 and asking him if he can come out and do whatever he can for you. Just because you don't use this vet this time doesn't mean you will be precluded from using him in the future.

[Laurierace]

You did not call a vet and get quoted $5000 for xrays. You could do a full body bone scan for less than that. There is no way the vet said to feed her one flake of hay per day and nothing else. Although I guess dying of starvation would make the feet problem go away. What makes you think any of us would have any idea what the problem is when we can't see it?

[Seven-up]

Trollin, trollin, trollin. This is a joke. I'd bet my eye teeth that OP is about 13.

[ddashaq]

I agree that you need to either get the horse seen by a vet or give her to someone who will. I don't know what kind of horse owner you are and frankly, I don't care. All I know is that based on what YOU have described, your horse needs to have rads taken of her feet ASAP so someone can figure out what is really going on.

ETA: Having read you most recent (very mature) response, forget it. Do what you want and I pity your mare who will suffer the consequences of your (lack of) actions. Best of luck to your mare.

[goeslikestink]

Okay listen this is so stupid.

I AM NOT ASKING FOR A FREAKING DIAGNOSIS OF MY HORSE. If anyone read the entire thing you all know i was asking for ADVICE and if ANYONE has had this problem.

I HAVE TALKED TO THE VET I HAVE TALKED ABOUT PRICES.

If your going to respond with call a vet...do you think that is going to change what i have already done....WHICH IS CALL A VET thank you very much.

nothing is "fishy" about this.
Its something i have never seen why would i waste my time knowing people are going to sit there and make me feel bad for stuff that i know i need to do and i am working on. I was asking about relief for horse and if anyone has seen this.

THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

holy crap! why is this so difficult? because it SHOULD NOT BE.

And she is getting so little hay because that is how you are supposed to treat founder...this is what the VET HAS SAID. Little hay....no sweet grain....limited turn out...because its been raining non stop she has had access the the barn (yes it is "horse proof") and been in her stall.

I WANT ADVISE i have called a vet and i have gotten prices... I KNOW THIS!!!!!!!!!!!


good lord all mighty.


very contrictory in your postings
i think you have left this mare to fend for herself whilse you having your baby and by the sounds of it has lived out is some bare patch with nothing to eat hence the underweight and you wonder why shes ill

matey -- do the right thing by your horse and sign it over to spca where it can get the help and attention this horse so desperately needs
as you havent called a vet and npr have you called a farrier in
i have heard and seen every excuse under th sun when dealing with underweight horses
and ihave seen plenty in th same condition as yours
to the right thing by your horse and sign it over as you cant afford to keep it nor be responsible for it

after all you have a baby-- lots of people have babies so your not alone only difference is that most dont neglect to feed there horse

[mustangtrailrider]

You are asking for advice. You are asking for the impossible. You are asking for people to help you. Many of us here have treated founder/laminitis. It is a serious debilitating disease. It can be treated with proper management. Many of us can offer you suggestions.

First you need to get a vet out to see you horse and ask vet what she suggest based upon an actually physical examination. Your vet only knows what you are telling her. Second, you need to bite the upper lip and thank everyone here for offering you their advice. People are trying to help. You are being very deffensive. They won't help again. Third, if money is so tight, you may try giving your horse to another home that has the resources to help her. Fourth, If you can't or won't do the above, GOOD LUCK! I wish your horse all of the help in the world because you aren't helping it.

[HuntrJumpr]

So I'm kind of curious what you're actually feeding this horse? No hay and no grain? What are you supposed to feed her?

If you just want advice how to make your horse comfortable because you weren't going to do anything else, you should have just written an abbreviated post asking that. And then people could just tell you to load them up on bute and they won't feel much of anything. Then in a while you could come back and ask about ulcers.

If you really just want to make her comfy and don't want to ask the vet for rads, do what Jaimebaker suggested and slap her on foam. Which, by the way - you said you were going to do that. Did it help?

No one can give you advice about something that isn't being clearly explained. If you have a diagnosis and multiple treatment suggestions, then maybe people on here can help you work them out. No one is going to tell you to just do what you can to minimize pain and not treat the problem. Its not fair to you or your horse.

[goeslikestink]

Alright i'm closing this post. this is absolutely ridiculous it is people like you who need to not be an hear seriously??? You are obviously a stupid minded young person who have NO LIFE other than your horse. Seriously? i'm finding a forum with older adults who can give actual advice. My mare was leased out to the person i BOUGHT HER FROM. Obviously your mommy still pays for your horse if you even have one. in case YOU do not know it is DANGEROUS to be around horses while you are pregnant.. you are an IDIOT and a single minded twit. i take great offense to this single response.

this thread is going to be closed. thanks to the only person who responded with what i needed. Simple advise to possibly make her feel better.

you have a horse you cant afford and will not treat with vets as you cant afford them

so be the good little horse owner -- and sign her over to spca
befre she drops down dead and the spca are called out on you for cruelty to your horse
for not looking after it properly

so that you dont spend time in prison away from the most important thing which your baby
grown up and act like a adult and do the right thing by your horse

sign her over to the spca --

this fact as people can see your horses condition shes underweight and has bad feet sue to her body condition and shes not being feed enough nutrition to help her needs nor to help her feet via vet or farrier -- so called jim will fix types wont fix a horse already in pain and in a serius condition it takes time and money and lot of hard work and pateince
all of which you havent got

sign her over -- tha way she will get the help at no cost to you and that way you will have more money for your child and one day you might beable to buy another horse later
but that all the in future

[jaimebaker]

Edit: You posted as I was typing this. I see you spoke to a vet. I surely hope you plan to follow thru with the vet instead of taping styrofoam on your horse's feet because it's free, and vets aren't. Jamiebaker is giving sound advice, and I'm sure she means well, but remember that she hasn't seen your horse and the vet needs to in order to do what's right for your horse.

This is true. I haven't seen the horse. I had a mare come in lame as crap one day last year. Probably 4 weeks out from a trim so it definitely wasn't the trim. I couldn't find a freakin vet to come out and I called 5. And though they wouldn't come out, they still gave advice. I got the mare comfortable, put her on bute and styro, and got a vet out a few days later. He did nothing but say 'yep, she's got a pulse' and took some xrays. Sometimes vets really aren't the best 'hoof experts'. But unfortunately, your farrier doesn't sound like one either. Did anyone like the vet or farrier mention what type of hay you should feed or that it should be soaked to get rid of the sugars??? Don't rely on farriers OR vets to be gods or all knowing.

If your farrier suspected and/or is treating for founder did he mention icing/hosing her legs?? That's the FIRST thing you should do if you suspect founder and are waiting on a vet. Getting her soles off the ground? It really sounds like you are not getting solid advice at all. Or at least it's not mentioned. It might not be anything but soles parred too much or hoof walls too short. We are just anonymous folks on the internet. If you want SOLID advice you really need to seek the help of a professional in your area. Either an experienced farrier or vet.

Folks are getting snippy with you because you have basically come here and told us your story but have said you just will not call the vet. Soooo...we don't know the horse, don't even have photos of the feet and you want advice. The only sane, SOLID advice someone can give you is call the vet. Don't get mad at them for doing so.:)

[Seven-up]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::sleepy:


Trollin, trollin, trollin... mission accomplished, OP.



Edit, whoopsie, them eye rolls sure weren't for you, jamie! I think you gave great advice.

[goeslikestink]

This is true. I haven't seen the horse. I had a mare come in lame as crap one day last year. Probably 4 weeks out from a trim so it definitely wasn't the trim. I couldn't find a freakin vet to come out and I called 5. And though they wouldn't come out, they still gave advice. I got the mare comfortable, put her on bute and styro, and got a vet out a few days later. He did nothing but say 'yep, she's got a pulse' and took some xrays. Sometimes vets really aren't the best 'hoof experts'. But unfortunately, your farrier doesn't sound like one either. Did anyone like the vet or farrier mention what type of hay you should feed or that it should be soaked to get rid of the sugars??? Don't rely on farriers OR vets to be gods or all knowing.

If your farrier suspected and/or is treating for founder did he mention icing/hosing her legs?? That's the FIRST thing you should do if you suspect founder and are waiting on a vet. Getting her soles off the ground? It really sounds like you are not getting solid advice at all. Or at least it's not mentioned. It might not be anything but soles parred too much or hoof walls too short. We are just anonymous folks on the internet. If you want SOLID advice you really need to seek the help of a professional in your area. Either an experienced farrier or vet.

Folks are getting snippy with you because you have basically come here and told us your story but have said you just will not call the vet. Soooo...we don't know the horse, don't even have photos of the feet and you want advice. The only sane, SOLID advice someone can give you is call the vet. Don't get mad at them for doing so.:)

she cant afford a vet the only other altunative is to sign the horse over to spca so the horse can get the help it needs better for the horse and for her

[kdow]

And you say something simple as a payment plan for a 3,000 buck job...that a cheap car people. i have gotten the advice from a vet and i'm following it.

I know someone who has a dog she 'rescued'. (More accurately, she was dog-sitting it for someone who said a local breed rescue was going to pick it up, only the breed rescue kept messing her around with times so eventually she just sucked it up and kept the darn dog. So it's not like she went out and chose it.)

The dog needed $4000 worth of vet care, including dental work. This person works part-time because that's the most she can physically handle due to major health problems. So $4000 is a LOT of money for her.

She went to her vet (who she has known for many years), explained her situation, and got the dog treated. Some months, she literally only pays $10, because that's all she can afford if she's going to keep the heating, water, and electricity on and enough food on the table and gas to get to her job. (She'd even take public transport there, if it was available.) Months when there's more money, she puts a little aside for emergencies (in case there comes a month when she CAN'T afford food/basic necessities), and everything else once the basics are paid for goes to the vet.

Bottom line is she was responsible for the dog, the dog needed care, she made it happen so the dog GOT CARE.

If she hadn't been able to arrange things with the vet, she would've found someone else to take the dog, or had it humanely euthanized so that at least it wouldn't be suffering.

(And I'm not sure I think much of your vet if he's willing to give you all kinds of advice over the phone without having seen the poor horse. How does he know what's actually wrong and what's a suitable treatment without having seen the horse? He's known you for years and can't honestly wave the farm call out fee just this once to come out and make sure the advice he's giving you isn't going to make things worse, even if he knows you can't afford to pay for any treatment?)

[jaimebaker]

she cant afford a vet the only other altunative is to sign the horse over to spca so the horse can get the help it needs better for the horse and for her

However, I'm sure she can afford hosing legs and some styrofoam. Lots of folks can't afford vet care these days. I know there have been times in the past that either I should have called the vet and didn't, or simply couldn't get a vet out during the emergency. It took me 4 vets to get a proper diagnosis on my mare's founder. Which was a month of her suffering since none of them offered me ANYTHING. When the last one finally diagnosed her, he told me what to do to get her comfortable. And I did it. So, even if she got a vet out right this very second, it doesn't mean she would get the correct diagnosis. She's frustrated and I understand. I don't think she needs to sign the horse over to spca just yet and that's a rather harsh suggestion. She's scared of thousands of dollars worth of x-rays. OP, you know...you can call a vet out and just have them look at the horse. And unless she's 4 legged lame, you don't need xrays on all 4. Just get one view of the hoof/hooves in question. So, 2 rads. I'm assuming two. Founder generally effects the front hooves and not all 4. It CAN. But it's not the norm. It will at least give you more information.

But honestly, this doesn't sound a thing like founder. Sounds like your farrier. And of course he's going to 'treat it like founder' so he doesn't look like a twit for butchering your horse's feet.

The reason I suggest the styrofoam is because if you get styrofoam on her and it offers immediate relief, you know that the pain is on the bottom of the foot...the soles. It's just an easy way to sort of judge where the pain is. If you've got rotation going on in there, the styro isn't going to make a big improvement as the pain will often be higher up. Do the styro and see what you get.

I know you're frustrated. But there are things you can do for her that cost little to know money to at least get her some relief.

[sketcher]

Trollin, trollin, trollin. This is a joke. I'd bet my eye teeth that OP is about 13.

[edit]

Quoted 3 k for hoof x-rays. One flake of alfalfa for a foundered horse diet. No icing or cold hosing? Dangerous to be around a horse while pregnant?!! Come on. Get real.

[littleum]

Okay listen this is so stupid.

I AM NOT ASKING FOR A FREAKING DIAGNOSIS OF MY HORSE. If anyone read the entire thing you all know i was asking for ADVICE and if ANYONE has had this problem.

I HAVE TALKED TO THE VET I HAVE TALKED ABOUT PRICES.

If your going to respond with call a vet...do you think that is going to change what i have already done....WHICH IS CALL A VET thank you very much.

nothing is "fishy" about this.
Its something i have never seen why would i waste my time knowing people are going to sit there and make me feel bad for stuff that i know i need to do and i am working on. I was asking about relief for horse and if anyone has seen this.

THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

holy crap! why is this so difficult? because it SHOULD NOT BE.

And she is getting so little hay because that is how you are supposed to treat founder...this is what the VET HAS SAID. Little hay....no sweet grain....limited turn out...because its been raining non stop she has had access the the barn (yes it is "horse proof") and been in her stall.

I WANT ADVISE i have called a vet and i have gotten prices... I KNOW THIS!!!!!!!!!!!


good lord all mighty.


Call a different vet. Get quotes. Work it out.

[edit] A diagnosis isn't going to just drop out of the sky [edit]

[Androcles]

And she is getting so little hay because that is how you are supposed to treat founder...this is what the VET HAS SAID. Little hay....no sweet grain....limited turn out...because its been raining non stop she has had access the the barn (yes it is "horse proof") and been in her stall.

So you have an actual diagnosis of founder by the vet? Without coming out and doing an exam?
Actually, starvation is not the correct treatment for anything, including founder.

[jaimebaker]

Ok, I just reread the original post. If she was fine for 6-7 days and then came up lame again, it could be laminitis. However, if her soles are parred too much she could be bruising as well. Could be an abscess moving around. You wondered why she would be off when you ran out of Glanzen for a few days. Well, Glanzen has a lot of flax in it which is Omega 3s, which are known for their anti-inflammatory properties. So that's probably your answer to that question. She was getting those O3s with the Glanzen and when she went without for a few days it was probably enough to make her sore again. I could be totally wrong of course. Not a vet nor I pretend to be one.

[jaimebaker]

gave bute immediately...changed nothing figured it was soreness since she hadn't ever been without shoes (her shoes were taken off and i was going to keep them off because she was doing well and farrier didn't have aluminum which is what she has been shown in and had for past 3 years)

Next day i come out and see her and she is more sore than before...This is only one day....i continue giving bute (1 1/2 scoops which is what was recommended by the vet) H said it takes about 5 days to FULLY kick in but will help with pain...so i followed the VETS directions...

second day i try to put diapers (what we use to pad because they are better than gauze) and some ferazone wrap in vet wrap to help pain...she falls on me because its her RIGHT FRONT foot. she lets me do the other one..




Wow, you really need to get a new vet. 5 days for bute to kick in???!?!?!!? That's hysterical. 3 hours, TOPS. Bute won't do anything if it's the soles. If it's laminitis it will help with inflammation. You don't want to do bute more than 5 days typically (ulcer, liver damage risk). Maybe you misunderstood him because that makes no sense to me.

And your comment about doing the diapers on the hooves. I may be misreading your post, but it's NOT the hoof she won't hand to you. It's the other one. The horse will hand you the hoof that hurts. She won't give you the other one because that puts all of her weight on the BAD hoof.

[Androcles]

Says the sole of her foot is soft...it is a large spot. right in center.
To big for an abscess...
we decide that we will treat her for founder as the other horse that looks similar has founder...
Okay, you're treating her for founder on the basis of her looking like another horse that 'has' founder...

(and no, there's no limit to the size an abscess can be)

everyone needs to know where i am coming from here...I can afford the 500$ for the vet to come out and look and ultra sound and stuff....that isn't what she needs..because of her symptoms we want to rule out what it might not be...if it isn't founder...which it is quite likely it isn't....it would be a waste to have him come out and take xrays....
But it's most likely not founder...


just wanting some insite into founder and causes and treatment you found helpful.

But you want insights and treatments for founder. Is that right?

BTW what the heck is fiber food? Beet pulp?

[MistyBlue]

Gotta be a troll folks.


next day i come out to barn she is standing in the middle of her stall didn't eat any hay (the horse is hundreds of lbs under weight and she is a PIG this is NOT normal)
She then gained weight!!!
She isn't on really any hay maybe a flake a day. Her weight is okay.
She was underweight...we got her back up to a "skinny" horse...aka...couldn't see ribs but could feel if you try...That is skinny to me...


Horse went from hundreds of pounds underweight to gaining weight being fine in a short time. :confused:

I do NOT want to call the vet until abs. Necessary.
Yes i realize THE VET is the answer but yes xrays on horses for this vet are about 3,000 EXCLUDING the farm visit which ha is a little 50$
and i have TALKED to the vet yes gotten his opinion.
I HAVE TALKED TO THE VET I HAVE TALKED ABOUT PRICES.

i have gotten the advice from a vet and i'm following it.

All in a couple hours...went from not calling the vet to calling the vet to talked to vet and already is implementing the vet's advice.

Either someone fibbing their way through a story in hopes of getting free vet advice online or someone trolling.

[Cindyg]

I'm sure it will NOT be long before BornToRide comes on here and tells you that you need to have the horse trimmed barefoot and take away all NSC's and take the horse off alfalfa.


This is exactly what my farrier would recommend: No grain (none), plenty of grass hay, mineral supplementation (but not a red salt block), barefoot, low heels, "mustang roll," and lots of time.

He swears that is good for whatever ails the feet.

[Fharoah]

Get a different vet out and xray her feet. Horse in pain can cause founder, cost will be minimal. Did the vet examine the horse or just give advise over the phone.?

[Lulu]

I think the title of the post says it all. I have an IQ in the triple digits and I'm having trouble following this story through its various incarnations. Nothing's adding up. I feel sorry for the OP, as she seems to be in over her head. I feel even worse for the horse -- first the bad lease, now this.

[kdow]

This is exactly what my farrier would recommend: No grain (none), plenty of grass hay, mineral supplementation (but not a red salt block), barefoot, low heels, "mustang roll," and lots of time.

He swears that is good for whatever ails the feet.

Is your farrier BTR? :D

[jetsmom]

Musical Jumper, is that you?????

[LMH]

You farrier decided to nail shoes on a potentially foundering horse that was in too much pain to stand?

Again xrays will not even cost $500.

You are describing a potential veterinary emergency.

It is irresponsible with the information you have given for anyone to offer any advice other than call. the. vet.

[lolita1]

Put the horse down or get a vet or hand it over to the animal control people. You own a horse whether your mother agreed to pay for it or not and as such you have a duty of responsibility and I don't thing your personal circumstances change that one iota. Poor horse and for the record how does an under weight horse get founder. Never heard of that before.

BTW one of the worst things you can do to a foundering horse is to change their diet too quickly ... it needs to be very very gradual.

[partlycloudy]

$3000-$5000 for simple x-rays???!!!
Heck, my vet will fly out to you from Ont. Can., x-ray and give you all the advice you need for less than that. Heck, I could come with her (just to hold the horse, ya know) for that.
Shall I call her for you? please?

[hossluva]

You've got to call the vet and get x-rays. It's just that simple. Just frickin do it. A horse without feet = dead horse. Got it?

BTW, do you understand that making a horse stand in pain and suffer without calling a vet is considered, at the very least, neglect and as long as you've been at it, abuse. Both misdemeanor offenses which (where I live) would give any humane officer the right to come and take your horse away and you would be dealing with a lot more than a vet bill.

CALL A VET, ANY VET. Even the best vet can not diagnose over the phone. You should not be playing "dial a doctor" here, come on. 20 w/a new baby perhaps should not be owning a horse - just saying...

[Chall]

Troll or not, didn't she say the feet were smelly? Would that mean thrush or possibly canker? Or can laminitis result in soft smelly feet too?

[hossluva]

Tough saying not knowing which is the problem. If she'd tell me where she is I could probably have that horse out of her hands by noon... And happy to do it. Utterly ridiculous!!

[Ghazzu]

Here's some free advice from a vet:

HAVE A QUALIFIED VETERINARIAN EXAMINE YOUR HORSE.
NOW.
YOU'VE ALREADY POTENTIALLY COMPROMISED HER FUTURE HEALTH AND SOUNDNESS BY DINKING AROUND IN THE HOPES OF AVOIDING A VETERINARY BILL.

[kookicat]

Here's some free advice from a vet:

HAVE A QUALIFIED VETERINARIAN EXAMINE YOUR HORSE.
NOW.
YOU'VE ALREADY POTENTIALLY COMPROMISED HER FUTURE HEALTH AND SOUNDNESS BY DINKING AROUND IN THE HOPES OF AVOIDING A VETERINARY BILL.

Gotta agree with this.

AND- the vet bill you have coming to you is only going to get bigger unless your horse dies. You should've had the vet out before now. I don't care how old you are. It's basic common sense. Stop saying 'I can't, I can't...' and making excuses. Get the vet out to the poor horse.

[caffeinated]

You've got to call the vet and get x-rays. It's just that simple. Just frickin do it. A horse without feet = dead horse. Got it?

Because it bears repeating:

You've got to call the vet and get x-rays. It's just that simple. Just frickin do it. A horse without feet = dead horse. Got it?

$3000 for x rays of feet? No way. I don't know what you think you heard (if this is in fact a real person not playing this for kicks), but there's NO WAY any normal vet would charge that for a couple views of the feet.

I paid less than HALF that for full body nuclear scintigraphy at a TOP veterinary hospital- after having gotten multiple sets of x-rays of my horse's feet from two different vets (those x-rays never cost over $200, by the way).

If your vet is too pricey, find another one. You need to see what's happening in the feet. And no, if you can't afford that basic part of care to make the horse feel better, maybe you shouldn't have one. If you can't do it right without mommy and daddy's help, best to cut your losses and find someone who can (even if you have to give horsie away).

Calling isn't good enough, you need one to actually come look at your horse. If you're real, which I sort of doubt right now.

[cyberbay]

Wow, this smells like a major troll, or someone trying out some themes for their next novel...

But, at the same time, it cracks me up when someone will post that coming to an internet board is a waste of time given that it's just a pile of conflicting advice and a bunch of no-nothings posting their 2-bit advice. SO, uh, how come that poster is on the site?

[spaghetti legs]

in case YOU do not know it is DANGEROUS to be around horses while you are pregnant.. you are an IDIOT and a single minded twit.

*snigger*


This is why kids shouldn't have kids.


dearie me. Seems the OP's parents are fed up with her too. Too bad they didn't sell the horse while OP was busy laying on the couch with a cold compress over her forehead.

This horse needs immediate attention by a veterinarian. Stat. You need your internet posting privileges taken away, and when your daughter starts school, I suggest you attend with her and have a refresher on basic spelling and grammar.

[Seven-up]

Lord have mercy, OP. If you thought the night owls were rough on you, you haven't met the morning crowd yet. OP, meet morning COTH. Morning COTH, have at it...:D Enjoy your bowl of Troll-ee-o's. Breakfast's the most important meal of the day.:yes:

[chancellor2]

This is exactly what my farrier would recommend: No grain (none), plenty of grass hay, mineral supplementation (but not a red salt block), barefoot, low heels, "mustang roll," and lots of time.

He swears that is good for whatever ails the feet.

But we do not know WHAT is ailing this horse. So, getting a snap decision from someone who has never seen the horse is ALWAYS a bad idea.

Cyberbay-I come to this board for an interesting read.

[spaghetti legs]

has anyone suggested putting shoes BACK on.

[caffeinated]

.

[eventchic33]

I gotta ask!!

Did you see a Doctor at all while you were preggers? If you had enough evolved brain function to see a doctor then how come you don't have enough now to realize you need a vet out to actually SEE your horse.

No vet is going to give you any kind of diagnosis over the phone and the most that one would say is "Give bute for pain and make horsie as comfy as possible. I can be there on X day at X time. I need to examine horsie"

[Seven-up]

has anyone suggested putting shoes BACK on.

How about cutting the feet off right at the coronary band? No feets, no problems!

[Cindyg]

Is your farrier BTR? :D

Well, honestly, I don't know! It's not the name I write on the checks, but it could be a pen name! LOL!

The protocol my farrier and BTR recommends (barefoot, no grain, etc.) is probably great for prevention and maintenance for many horses. But, yes, of course a horse in accute pain needs vet, in person, immediately. I think we're all in agreement on that.

BTW, I don't think the OP is a troll. I think she's in a bad situation with limited options. She's still dependent on her parents. She has at least two dependents herself (baby and horse). She has no authority to make any decisions (thus her mom made her lease the horse out while she was pregnant). Mom probably won't pay for additional emergency care for the horse....

Honestly, I remember what it felt like to be dependent on my parents and subject to their lackadaisical approach to my pets' healthcare. It was one of the best things about getting out a job and getting on with my adult life -- my pets' care improved substantially.

[Amwrider]

Lord have mercy, OP. If you thought the night owls were rough on you, you haven't met the morning crowd yet. OP, meet morning COTH. Morning COTH, have at it...:D Enjoy your bowl of Troll-ee-o's. Breakfast's the most important meal of the day.:yes:

Troll-ee-o's ..... :lol::lol::lol:*snork*:lol::lol::lol:

Looks to me like the OP doesn't want to take personal responsability for her horse's medical needs and wants to be angry at everyone here for the problems rather than be angry with herself. It is not *her* fault that she can't find out what is wrong with her horse so it has to be *our* fault for not diagnosing it for her and telling her how to treat it.

Sad how today's youth are growing up this way.....

[Amwrider]

My advice for the OP.....

Gazzu is a vet, she has told you to get a vet out, hed the internet vet's advice and do it.

It could be something as serious as a founder, it could be something as simple as a bruised sole. Your mare (if it is the paint mare in the link posted) looks back at the knee, pulling shoes off of a horse like this can cause lameness issues if the horse has a tendency to underrun heels as it will pull the tendons and ligaments more. Your mare could have bad thrush, she could have a bad abcess, she could have canker, she could have fractured her coffin bone. It could be a number of things.

If she is sore on it, you need to call the vet. Have you heard of a horse called Barbaro by any chance? He developed founder in his good hoof because of lameness and not able to put full weight on his bad leg.

If your mare is that lame and not wanting to put weight on her sore leg, then she could develop founder in her other leg. Then you will have to put her down, just as they had to put Barbaro down.

It may be founder, it may not be founder. A vet that actually SEES the horse is the only one that can tell you. You may need x-rays, just one or two angles to see if the coffin bone is fractured or if it is rotated from founder. Hopefully it will show neither and then you will know to look for less serious problems.

No one on here can SEE your horse and it doesn't sound like you KNOW enough to accurately describe what is going on with her.

A real...live...in person...degreed...qualified...practicing...licens ed..
...equine...veterinarian needs to come out to SEE THE HORSE.

If anything bad happens to your horse, it is not the fault of the people on this board, it would be the fault of YOU not seeking medical care for your horse, so don't try to make it our fault.

[JSwan]

Is this the mare?

[edit]

or is it a different one?


If it is - it ain't a 17K horse.

If the OP is from that area - she's got the cost of vet care and x-rays off quite a bit. Try moving the decimal point.

Of course - it's pretty cheap to starve a horse to death and you certainly save on vet bills that way.

The fact that the animal will suffer an unspeakably horrific, slow and agonizing death isn't really a big deal. Just close the curtains and turn up the volume on the tv. Problem solved.


For God's sake - have the vet OUT to examine the horse. There is no way Bute takes days to kick in, no way a vet would want a horse to receive only one flake of hay per day, no way in hell x rays cost that much, and x rays may not even be necessary once the vet EXAMINES THE HORSE.

Simple simple simple. If the horse is too far gone the vet can euthanize the horse right then and there. Or if you can't afford treatment you can ask the vet to euthanize - or find another vet that will if this one won't. You can also ask the vet for a payment plan if you cannot afford euthanasia costs.

A horse can founder in one hoof. An abscess in one hoof can result in laminitis/founder in the other hoof as the animal puts all its weight on the uninjured hoof.

No matter how you slice it - it's a veterinary emergency. You are obligated morally and legally to have the horse treated by a veterinarian - IN PERSON.

[Katy Watts]

Never did i say alfalfa i never said any kind of hay actually alfalfa is very high is sugar so why would i give alfalfa? It is timothy.


Timothy is far higher in sugar than alfalfa when grown under the same conditions. Timothy was the second highest in sugar out of 24 grass species, averaged over 8 samplings per season, 2 years, in my replicated field plots under worst case environmental scenario.

You should eliminate processed feed, especially senior products, and give only hay that is soaked for a couple hours in a lot of water, at least 1.5% of bodyweight. Your vet is not giving you very good advice, IMO.

There is much information on my website, but here is an emergency plan co-authored by vet specializing in laminitis.
http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/LaminitisDefense.pdf
Katy

[BornToRide]

I hope you called the vet, had the hooves x-rayed and her blood tested at least for IR. That will tell you what's going on and then you can take it from there.

[trubandloki]

Here's some free advice from a vet:

HAVE A QUALIFIED VETERINARIAN EXAMINE YOUR HORSE.
NOW.
YOU'VE ALREADY POTENTIALLY COMPROMISED HER FUTURE HEALTH AND SOUNDNESS BY DINKING AROUND IN THE HOPES OF AVOIDING A VETERINARY BILL.


OP, Ghazzu is a vet in real life. Not just one on the internet. Take that advice and follow it.

Why not call your mother and explain the situation and the dilemma and ask them to front the money for the vet care?

[Quinn]

Musical Jumper, is that you?????

Sadly, that was my first thought.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[kdow]

OP, Ghazzu is a vet in real life. Not just one on the internet. Take that advice and follow it.

Why not call your mother and explain the situation and the dilemma and ask them to front the money for the vet care?

This whole situation kind of makes me wonder just how frustrating it must be for vets and farriers to be finally called out to some kind of problem that someone's been dinking around with to try to avoid paying a professional, and the professional can see that what WAS probably a relatively simple issue to fix is now a complicated mess.

(I know when I did tech support briefly I much preferred the people who'd call at the first sign of an issue, even though it meant more 'that's not really a problem' calls, just because the people who tried to fix it themselves often made things exponentially worse.)

[HuntrJumpr]

Gotta agree with this.

AND- the vet bill you have coming to you is only going to get bigger unless your horse dies. You should've had the vet out before now. I don't care how old you are. It's basic common sense. Stop saying 'I can't, I can't...' and making excuses. Get the vet out to the poor horse.

Actually - doesn't it cost quite a lot to move them once they're dead? I was always told it was best to have them at a hospital (thus incurring stabling fees) for anything that may result in them being unable to walk themselves out.

^^ Above was written tongue-in-cheek

[Ghazzu]

This whole situation kind of makes me wonder just how frustrating it must be for vets and farriers to be finally called out to some kind of problem that someone's been dinking around with to try to avoid paying a professional, and the professional can see that what WAS probably a relatively simple issue to fix is now a complicated mess.



And often in those cases, we then get castigated for running up a bill and not being able to "fix" the problem...

[Samantha37]

Nice sleuthing Caffeinated !! That definitely looks like a 17k horse to me ;D

BTW- I live in central VA, I used to work in Middleburg. There is NO WHERE in VA that will charge you those prices for radiographs. Even a bone scan is less than that. Give me a break. I'm also 22 years old and I am so much more mature than you!- [edit]. Get a vet out- quit screwing around and actually call the vet out. There is no vet who would advise you like you say yours has been doing- my guess is that you actually haven't called them in the first place. You've probably worsened the problem tenfold so now it is going to really run up a hellacious vet bill. Nice going!

[Ghazzu]

There is no vet who would advise you like you say yours has been doing- my guess is that you actually haven't called them in the first place. You've probably worsened the problem tenfold so now it is going to really run up a hellacious vet bill. Nice going!


alternatively, it may be that the vet in question is so fed up with the op that he's quoting astronomical fees in the fervent hope that she calls somebody else...

[Samantha37]

alternatively, it may be that the vet in question is so fed up with the op that he's quoting astronomical fees in the fervent hope that she calls somebody else...


Haha that is true :) Seriously though- isn't giving advise like the OP says she has gotten advise opening a vet up for a lawsuit?

[Ghazzu]

Haha that is true :) Seriously though- isn't giving advise like the OP says she has gotten advise opening a vet up for a lawsuit?


I learned many years ago that there is often a wide gulf between what the vet said and what the owner says the vet said...

[Fharoah]

You asked for opinions,virtually everyone said get the vet. If your vet is quoteing you more than you can afford call a different vet perhaps a GP with regular film xrays they will be inexpensive. It is ethically your obligation to seek veterinary help for your pour horse. No vet can give make give correct advise on how to treat a very lame horse unless they see the horse.

CALL THE VET it is the moral thing to do!!

[trubandloki]

I learned many years ago that there is often a wide gulf between what the vet said and what the owner says the vet said...

:yes:


:lol: It makes me laugh, I think of what is said to Mr. Trub vs what he hears. It is the same thing.

[hossluva]

Hey Horsegirl, I'm hoping you've called out the vet and are online right now typing up an up-date on what's been done about your horse....

[pines4equines]

O.M.G!

[hossluva]

Guess not, huh? Does anyone have any idea where this gal is?? Just curious...

[goeslikestink]

How about cutting the feet off right at the coronary band? No feets, no problems!

you twit haha

[spurgirl]

Look, OP, If you are indeed a real person, not a troll, and your horse is suffering in the manner that you are saying, you not only need to CALL the vet, you need to make an appt. for the vet TO COME AND PHYSICALLY SEE AND EXAMINE YOUR HORSE. If your vet does this "telephone diagnosis" that you describe, then you NEED TO FIND ANOTHER VET, no matter how much history you have with him regarding other horses. Any competent vet would certainly come out, examine the horse, check her hoof/sole quality, temp., etc., etc., BEFORE even taking xrays. A good vet would also take the LEAST amount of films, esp. if he knew his longtime client was a little strapped for cash. Here in very expensive southern CT, our vet charges perhaps $40-60 an xray (I have not had to have any done for a few years now), and you certainly don't need more than, what, 2 side views-one of each foot?

Many of us have dealt with founder/laminitis, and it is one of the most agonizingly painful illnesses for a horse to go through...SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you for being "pennywise and pound foolish" in regards to the financial aspect of this mare's care, and allowing her to suffer, for days, or weeks...You are being ABUSIVE. I hope someone in the barn calls AC soon on you, so this poor animal will get some proper care. JMHO

[hossluva]

this thread is going to be closed. thanks to the only person who responded with what i needed. Simple advise to possibly make her feel better.

FYI: "Feeling better" is not always an equivalent to actually healing and being better. This sounds like it's been going on for quite a while. It is negligent for you to not get proper veterinary care for your horse, so have you?

[goeslikestink]

And often in those cases, we then get castigated for running up a bill and not being able to "fix" the problem...

thats true -- owners just dont get it sometimes by holding off and thinking they can help or cure things doesnt actually work

there was a case on houston spca on animal planet, grey arab mare pretty horse
anyways they seized it as it had loads of duck tape on its feet got the farrier out to meet them there and then back at the operations centre , farrier took of the duck tape and found that the horse had founder not once but more than once , duck tape was grotty and old and stank, farrier said some people think they helping th ehorse via diapers and duck tapeing it but in truth it dont work asit keeps all infections in and makes the whole thing ten times worse he surgested keeping the horse doped until court case but the horse didnt even make it as it never had a chance as it was to weak to eat and died


my point is op -- you knew this problem 2mths ago and now are asking what to do as you have to have vets in and a farrier to correct condition but it may be to late already
we can only go on hearsay of whats wrong with your horse but you contrict yourself so many times so obviously the horse is in a worse state then mentioned you get defensive becuase truth hurts --- that normal with humans

you do have a choice --1 pts which you cant do as it cost money via a vet plus you need someone or somewhere to put said horse
2-- choice call a vet and farrier and get the xrays needed - which you cant do as cant afford said horse and vet bills are to large already
3-- keep it until it drops downs and cant get up , and keep doing the dapier thing which you have got a clue if that going to help or hinder
4--
sign her over

now your 20 so that makes you an adult, and your a new mum
your child is the 1st and formost thing you need later in life to buy al new things as she grows older shouldnt think your on a great income or perhaps single mum with benifits
you parents cant afford to keep the mare
and your income is meant for you and your baby to live on and buy things for


so what to do- you have 2 choices -- left if you not willingly to pay for a vet and farrier services --
you either pts -- and put the mare out of her misery as shes in pain
or you sign her over to get the help she so desperately needs

now as adults we have to make some tough decessions in our lives as it not all a bed of roses
today is one of them days-=

girl your struggling not good with a young baby in tow if you sign her over she might make it
with no costs to you,
better than being caught out by spca for not doing the right thing,

just think later in life you can save up and have lessons with your child and go out to places
not done before theres a whole new life out there waiting to be had with you as a new mum showing off your child so put your enenrgy into having fun and being able to afford it easily without the worry of a sick horse

[hossluva]

This has not been going on for 2 bloody months!! OMG. That's it... Let's hunt her down and turn her butt in. That poor horse. That's totally disgusting!! How on God's green earth is she feeling. What a flippin' freak. :rolleyes: :eek: :confused: :mad: :o

[hossluva]

Shame on you Horsegirl - (for life?? I think not!!)

[LMH]

How does Furazone draw an abscess?

I have heard of magnapaste, ichthammol (sp?) and animalintex but never furazone

[sublimequine]

How does Furazone draw an abscess?

I have heard of magnapaste, ichthammol (sp?) and animalintex but never furazone

I have an abscessed horse I'm treating right now with furazone as per vet's orders, but it's not being used as a drawing agent, as the vet already dug out/opened up the abscess. It's being used to keep the part he opened up from getting infected. :confused:

[bascher]

Good for you for getting the vet out! I'm glad it's nothing more serious and that it will clear up! Just a quick question, someone posted an ad a couple pages left of a paint horse and the horse you just posted (who is really nice by the way!) is a chestnut. I'm really confused..what am I missing??

Anyway, glad to hear that there is nothing too serious going on.

[goeslikestink]

I learned many years ago that there is often a wide gulf between what the vet said and what the owner says the vet said...

true -- vets cant commit themsleves for free

op ghazzu has given you free advice -- adherd to it
or sign your horse over to local spca

[goeslikestink]

I have already called out the vet please see above post.
thanks

having an abcess doesnt make for a horse underweight -- so whats the vet say about her weight issues

[bascher]

having an abcess doesnt make for a horse underweight -- so whats the vet say about her weight issues

I thought that the horse came back from the lease underweight?

[sublimequine]

I have always used this for abscess's and the vets around here recommend it. I am not familiar with laminitis but very familiar with abscess's because of my old gelding. and that is what we always used or...god i can't remember the name of it... it smells bad and if burns your hand if you get it on your hand and like makes your mouth taste like chemicals...It sucks for humans but works great on horses... I jut don't like it because if it makes me that mad just using it with gloves...why put it on your horses feet?

Sounds like DMSO.. :confused:

[bascher]

I've been doing a bit of research on Furazone, and the some of articles that I have been reading seem to suggest that you should apply Furazone before the abscess ruptures, so I guess it does help in some way with the eruption process? Then other articles only recommend using it after the abscess has ruptured so...sorry I'm no help :)

[goeslikestink]

I have always used this for abscess's and the vets around here recommend it. I am not familiar with laminitis but very familiar with abscess's because of my old gelding. and that is what we always used or...god i can't remember the name of it... it smells bad and if burns your hand if you get it on your hand and like makes your mouth taste like chemicals...It sucks for humans but works great on horses... I jut don't like it because if it makes me that mad just using it with gloves...why put it on your horses feet?

i still dont beleive you have called the vet and are treating it as abcess becuase you know abcesses can make ahorse lame but as you have had them in the past
you know full well what to look for

might fool some dont fool -- poor horse

[Fharoah]

I am wondering this to as I was PM

"xrays were required like he told me they were and it was 1700$ i had to get this done because someone actually was threatening me over the phone because someone posted an ad on here of another horse i am selling.."

either the vet is robbing her, or?

[nlk]

Op~ It sounds like you have NO idea about your horses health. First you need to find a new farrier and vet, like others have said. A) NO respectable farrier is just going to "treat" a horse for founder with no x-rays. They need to know the degree of rotation etc. to properly shoe and treat founder. Also with out heat and a digital pulse a farrier isn't going to suggest founder. If he did he has NO IDEA what he is doing.

This is why you are getting the troll status...

I will say as a younger mother of two if my horses health was ever jeopardized he would be sold even if it was a donate to a college or auction sale at least he would have a chance for proper care. I would in NO way expect someone to care for their animals and put their children in anything but top priority position. ( it sounded like some were suggesting you care for your horse like you care for your child, sorry I don't agree, while my horse will be solid before his health and well being is in question my children will ALWAYS take priority to my animals)

[goeslikestink]

Op~ It sounds like you have NO idea about your horses health. First you need to find a new farrier and vet, like others have said. A) NO respectable farrier is just going to "treat" a horse for founder with no x-rays. They need to know the degree of rotation etc. to properly shoe and treat founder. Also with out heat and a digital pulse a farrier isn't going to suggest founder. If he did he has NO IDEA what he is doing.

This is why you are getting the troll status...

I will say as a younger mother of two if my horses health was ever jeopardized he would be sold even if it was a donate to a college or auction sale at least he would have a chance for proper care. I would in NO way expect someone to care for their animals and put their children in anything but top priority position. ( it sounded like some were suggesting you care for your horse like you care for your child, sorry I don't agree, while my horse will be solid before his health and well being is in question my children will ALWAYS take priority to my animals)

agree 1000%

[rainechyldes]

I feel like being devil's advocate today (I quit smoking yesterday, so that probably explains it)

Lets review.

She got the horse back 2 mths ago. *underweight) obviously due to the before pictures, this was a gorgeous looking horse.

And says she is working on getting weight back up (I'll agree here, she probably is she's in a group situation like it appears is maybe getting shoved off her food? I'd think she's be a bit heftier by now.

2 1/2 weeks ago, the farrier did the horse's feet and she/he went lame.

The vet has been called, and come out.

Gave her the treatment options -which she is following as she stated here.

So, where's the fire? What am I missing here?


My thoughts:
Horse probably needs more groceries.
It's an abscess, and treatment works, yay!?

I don't see the huge amount of lambasting going on all the entirely necessary by this point, but like I said I quit smoking yesterday, so my brain is a but muddled today.

[Go Fish]

Here's some free advice from a vet:

HAVE A QUALIFIED VETERINARIAN EXAMINE YOUR HORSE.
NOW.
YOU'VE ALREADY POTENTIALLY COMPROMISED HER FUTURE HEALTH AND SOUNDNESS BY DINKING AROUND IN THE HOPES OF AVOIDING A VETERINARY BILL.

Good advice...

Or, do nothing, just like you currently are, and wait for some sympathetic neighbor to call the SPCA on you for animal cruelty. :mad:

[Go Fish]

[QUOTE=equinegrl4lyf;4091585 I am NOT someone who does not take care of her horse at all.../QUOTE]

Yes you are...

[Seven-up]

$1700.

Ok, let's say $50 for a farm call. Never seen one that high, but whatever. Now let's say another $50 for an exam. Probably generous. 5 shots of the foot puts you at $320 per picture. Maybe they shot both front feet. That puts you at $160 per shot. I'll take off another $100 for sedatives, draining the abscess, and supplies. That puts you at $150 per shot. Ain't. No. Way.

The OP's mom either got robbed blind or there was a whoooooole lotta work that needed to be done on that horse.


Ghazzu, I think you need to move to VA so you can buy yourself and all of us a yacht.

[Androcles]

I2 1/2 weeks ago, the farrier did the horse's feet and she/he went lame.

The vet has been called, and come out.



No, and no. Where did you get that the vet had come out? (prior to the 5 pages of exhortations to call a vet). She realized she wasn't going to get free veterinary advice after all and is now saying the vet came out AFTER 2 1/2 WEEKS OF SUFFERING by the horse, at a ridiculous cost that no one believes. So what else is not true here?

[JSwan]

I'm familiar with several equine practices in the area and that figure isn't accurate.

Well... that's not entirely true. For a PPE for a high end performance horse, for loads of images for a really serious chronic lameness... as most of us know the tab can add up pretty fast.

But for something like this - especially if it's a routine farm call - I'm estimating a couple hundred bucks. And that's pushing it a lot - the vet might get there and probe a little until the abscess spooged. I know a 100 or 200$ vet bill might as well be a million $ if money is tight but that sum is usually something a clinic can work with a client on. There's always a way - even if it means putting the horse down for a treatable condition.

Must be tough to be a vet trying to work blindfolded with one arm tied around his/her back.

On the other hand - many an animal has suffered or died because the owner was penny wise and pound foolish.

[Seven-up]

I'm familiar with several equine practices in the area and that figure isn't accurate.

Well... that's not entirely true. For a PPE for a high end performance horse, for loads of images for a really serious chronic lameness... as most of us know the tab can add up pretty fast.




Yeah, that $1700 figure is a teensy bit inflated. My PPE (which included full exam, flexions, and digital x-rays of feet, ankles, knees and hocks) was $1200. It was something like 28 pictures, I think?

I'm adding up 2 + 2 and not getting 1700.


It's a crock. Exactly how much of this story is a crock, well, I'm pretty sure it's more than just the vet bill.

[JSwan]

Mmmm.... as I wrote before I know that practice and that figure isn't accurate. Emergency fee is going to be a few dollars higher - block and sedation might add about 80$ - I think - have to check my bills - but if the bill was almost 2K then you must have taken pictures of every bone in that horse's body.

I don't know what the problem is here but your stories seem to change. Since this BB has a couple of regular trolls, and a few guests stars from time to time - guess there's no way for folks to know if you're one or not. Natural to be suspicious.

But I live near you and the vets aren't that expensive - unless we're talking about some a chronic injury/illness, or a big lameness workup from certain vet clinics. Specialists - that sort of thing.

Good luck with the horse.



It was not a "routine farm call" it was considered emergency... She got blocked and sedated got mutable pictures done.

Yes this vet is expensive.. as i have stated throughout..

I am done with these posts.

[Fharoah]

My MRI cost 2k, if basic diagnostics and xrays cost $1700 why not spring a few hundred more for much better diagnostics. $1700 for what you you describe is simply unrealistic.

[Laurierace]

Why are you guys still discussing this? She is either full of crap or a lunatic or both, save your keystrokes and move on to the next windmill.

[dq for life]

After what, 3 weeks now, why was it an emergency call?

[Entourage]

5 grand for x-rays huh? I must know who your vet is! My horse had tons of x-rays and surgery at Blue Ridge for under 2 grand. Methinks you are full of it.

[Entourage]

I actually know who the poster is now that I've gone through and read the rest. I know who the mare is too. I find it really hard to believe she came back from the woman who leased her very thin, because I know her too and know she is very prompt with communication and her horses were always in wonderful care. She certainly never had this mare priced at $17,000. Guess what, I know the vet too, because that's my vet. In fact they were at our barn yesterday for an emergency call. The farm call fee is $80 bucks, emergency or not. Horse at the barn had x-rays and ultrasound of the hock. Also got bute, antibiotics and had to be sedated twice. The total bill was under $500. I'm extremely flabbergasted by this story. Just wow. I'm also baffled as to what barn in this area would charge 800 a month unless the horse was in training?

[Rhyadawn]

coming in late.

This was an entertaining read! Wow... new one born everyday....

OP, good for you on calling your vet. You made a step in the right direction. Please understand that many of the people you told to grow up are (at least) twice your age and have been riding and caring for horses longer than you have been alive. Coming to a forum such as this you will get as many different oppinions as answers and while not all of them are the current trend it doesn't mean they are wrong.

You have a baby. Congrats! They whine, cry, spit, and cost a lot of money. Think about that next time before you hop in the sack. Some women ride all through their pregnancies and never have a problem; others do everything to protect their baby and still lose the pregnancy. Life isn't fair like that. You made a choice to stop riding and lease your mare.

I'm not saying this to be hateful, but you need to prioritize. You can't live off mommy and daddy forever, and if you can't afford your horse then you need to sell or even give away. I know its sad and hard, but you have responsibilities.

[Kenike]

Maybe it's just the angle, but the bay in the "after" pics with this mare looks just as "skinny." Neither look to be in horrible weight, though (as in not in danger...does that make sense?)

Op, good for calling the vet. Not sure what all was done, but that's an awfully high bill for what you said was done. The comments about you starving the horse stem from the statements of you only feeding her maybe a flake of hay each day. That's not enough. Sorry, but it's true. Still, if it's what your vet says, then whatever. At least you've finally made the more aggressive attempt to help her.

That said....

I, too, quit riding while I was pregnant. I had 2 miscarriages before when I kept riding. I wasn't taking chances with this one. I nearly lost him, too. I respect your decision. However, that baby you have decided to have at a very young age (I'm 33, btw) needs to be your top priority. If you can't afford the vet bill on your horse, then you probably ought sell her and make sure you DO have money for your baby. Trust me. Someone else can take her on and pay her vet bills while you attempt to be some sort of decent mother (not a kick there, just know how hard parenthood is...and I've been married for over a decade, so I have help!).

[mandalea]

Gotta agree with this.

AND- the vet bill you have coming to you is only going to get bigger unless your horse dies. You should've had the vet out before now. I don't care how old you are. It's basic common sense. Stop saying 'I can't, I can't...' and making excuses. Get the vet out to the poor horse.

Well, here in Australia, it cost nearly $300 for a shot of Lethabarb. ($226 US). SO maybe she WOULD be better off putting the horse out of it's misery - it's cheaper.

And I certainly know that any vet is willing to let you pay off the bill over an extended period.

Mine does. And I've worked for him and handled the billing, the reminders etc.

I know how the system works.

(I know when I did tech support briefly I much preferred the people who'd call at the first sign of an issue, even though it meant more 'that's not really a problem' calls, just because the people who tried to fix it themselves often made things exponentially worse.)

Exactly.

We had a guy come in with a dog that had Parvo, and had one at home, DEAD, from it, and we ended up having to put his dog down because he waited till it got MUCH worse.

Then we had to super disinfect everything -_-

alternatively, it may be that the vet in question is so fed up with the op that he's quoting astronomical fees in the fervent hope that she calls somebody else...

I know mine would :L

[hossluva]

This story is a crock of crap. Everyone's totally confused over an abscess? The farrier didn't recognize what was going on? Pads and corrective shoeing for founder w/out rads? Treating founder w/out diagnosis? $800 board when you have no money? Another horse for sale?? A horse "falling down lame" is an "emergency" almost 3 weeks later, 'cuz she's not that lame? A vet call for an abscess that costs $1,700. w/blocks and tranqs? It's all a bit suspect.

FWIW, watching a horse walk around on 3 legs for 3 wks w/out having a clue about what is wrong is plain wrong. My vet hates furazone to treat anything. She had me toss it all. Icthamol or magnapaste work fabulously to draw an abscess, and soaking in epsom salt is usually recommended too, if this is even real and that is truly all it is.

[ladipus]

Well now that i have calmed down mayeb i should explain this whole situation better.


shortened story=
I got my mare back=she was underwieght=asked why? lady said couldn't afford her and lost my number=BS because i contacted her by email never got response=thats beside the point=got her back when agreed and threatened to sue her=

She was underweight...we got her back up to a "skinny" horse...aka...couldn't see ribs but could feel if you try...That is skinny to me...

we used senior feed as it was reccommended BY THE VET I cannot stress enough the fact that the vet HAS been included in alot of this whole ordeal.

She then got trimmed...walking back to her stall she was lame...No one would call the vet the min that happened. NO ONE. don't lie to yourself...

gave bute immediately...changed nothing figured it was soreness since she hadn't ever been without shoes (her shoes were taken off and i was going to keep them off because she was doing well and farrier didn't have aluminum which is what she has been shown in and had for past 3 years)

Next day i come out and see her and she is more sore than before...This is only one day....i continue giving bute (1 1/2 scoops which is what was recommended by the vet) H said it takes about 5 days to FULLY kick in but will help with pain...so i followed the VETS directions...

second day i try to put diapers (what we use to pad because they are better than gauze) and some ferazone wrap in vet wrap to help pain...she falls on me because its her RIGHT FRONT foot. she lets me do the other one..

third day i see improvement but want second opinion...i call farrier back out since vet has said he will probably need to take xrays....farrier comes back out...Says the sole of her foot is soft...it is a large spot. right in center.
To big for an abscess...
we decide that we will treat her for founder as the other horse that looks similar has founder...

she allows him to put pads and shoes on her...

I call vet tell him what farrier says..he says put her on very limited hay...turn out without grass (which is not available so we have her stall door open to go in the barn) and to feed a fiber food with as little sweet as possible...So that is what we are doing...

She is on 2 1/2 scoops fiber morning and night and has very limited hay yes...only 1-2 flakes. No i am not starving my horse by any means...with the limited turn out she has actually gained quite a bit of weight, and not being ridden.

I have spent alot of money on shoes and suppliments and nice feed for this mare i take VERY good care of her.

Just because i do not want to call the vet to take xrays that he said he needs to take..i should not have to put my horse down or sign her over to the humane society?

everyone needs to know where i am coming from here...I can afford the 500$ for the vet to come out and look and ultra sound and stuff....that isn't what she needs..because of her symptoms we want to rule out what it might not be...if it isn't founder...which it is quite likely it isn't....it would be a waste to have him come out and take xrays....

that is all i was saying about calling him out until nes. i have been in contact with the vet...he is a very well known and liked vet throughout VA.


She is no longer on bute we are trying different things...

I wanted to explain by story before i came on here and said something small that everyone would blow up and say go to vet...so i tried to tell as much detail in little amount....apparently that was the wrong thing to do

just wanted to see if anyone elses horse has possibly had similar symptoms and what they did to make more comfortable.

that is simply it. If she was dying or needed to be put down or given to SPCA i wouldn't be on here.


I'm sorry for blowing up but i have taken everything that has happened to my poor mare very seriously and i have considered taking legal action against the lady leasing her. I am very very sensitive to the whole baby and horse thing. I love my horse but love my daughter very much and making time for both is hard but what needs to be done is being done so when people say stuff like what comes first...its very hard and unless your a mom you don't understand cause i certainly did not. Being only 20 y/o and having these responsibilities makes you grow up QUICK and i'm still having trouble with that..


and now that everyone one has heard me rant and rave...

please be understanding...My horse WAS seen by a vet when she came back from the lease...which was 2 months ago...not like a week ago...she is no longer "skinny" you can't feel or see rips...

just wanting some insite into founder and causes and treatment you found helpful.

Vets do not know everything and neither do farriers...the best way to learn is from experience that is why i came on a message board...because someone might have found something for them that worked better than someone a vet said...that is simply all.


thank you to those who have understood
:cry:


Sorry you're having to go through all of this....not particuarly pleasant experience especially having just had a baby-not to mention-i've been in similar circumstances getting horses back from being sent out and having them not return in the same condition is very upsetting...that being said...it kind of sounds like maybe the horse was having a tough time adjusting from going to wearing shoes to going barefoot-which alot of them takes a while-especially if they have thin soles or their feet are soft/mushy to begin w/...so your mare could have easily bruised her soles which can and will make them very foot sore...then getting trimmed could have irritated that even further...and she could be fixing to abscess....

so you can try soaking her foot in some warm water/epsom salts-that always gives relief and will help draw anything out...then you can either pack her foot w/ a good poultice or something like durvet's epsom salt poultice-this definitely won't hurt her-it might not help-but it won't hurt...then put a baby diaper over it for good cushioning,wrap over top of that w/ vet wrap and leave it on for a good day or two...often times that offers alot of relief to a sore foot and it may be all she needs to draw out any infection/abscess...you may need to continue this process a few more times over the course of a week or so....and in the mean while....you could try putting her on a course of antibiotics in case it is an abscess or something punctured her sole and made its way into the inside of the hoof than you physically can't see....and you can also continue w/ some bute or try an alternative approach such as BL solution-which is devils claw/yucca combination....and if that doesn't work....there's a great hoof analgesic/anti-inflammatory hoof packing called Magic Cushion that you can try packing her hoof w/....then i'd say....if after some time and you still don't see any improvement....unfortunately ....the longer you wait...the worse things might get,you made need to bite the bullet and have the vet come out...for all you know....maybe its not the hoof at all?!? or the vet might think a its a different leg altoghether that's bothering her? the vet can do a blocking to determine exactly where the un soundness is coming from

Good luck

Also...a good hoof supplement to help strengthen her hoof in the mean while can't hurt either

[JSwan]

Why are you guys still discussing this?

You're right and I apologize if I've unwittingly played into any drama.

I was just thinking that since I live in the area I might be able to put the vet charges into perspective. For all I know there are places in the US where those fees are normal.

I'd hate for a lurker and/or novice horse owner, especially one that lives around here, to read those posts and be frightened away from that practice or believe xrays/images are that expensive.

Whatever the story is about the OP - I hope the horse recovers fully.

[alittlegray]

I don't want to get 'involved' in the argument over health care, here. I do want to chime in and reassure you all that this poster is not a Troll.

She is young, and does have a new baby.

[kdow]

yea i made a mistake getting pregnant...i also got married moved out and am able to stay at home with my daughter while my husband works because that is what WE decided to do...People will ALWAYS come before horses and i guess unless you have a child you won't understand that because even when i didn't have my daughter i was pissed i wouldn't ride..my parents leased her out and was trying to sell her, but he wouldn't sell because the market sucks so bad and we weren't going to give her away.

my famil will ALWAYS be my top priority. I'm not saying horses aren't because i have to go feed every morning that is about 20 min away and i have to bring my daughter and you know it works for me now..


I'm really kind of concerned that it sounds like at the moment you basically can't afford an emergency vet call out plus some minimal amount of treatment. Horses are masters at finding ways to get injured. What if instead of being lame you went out one day to find she'd been kicked by another horse and was bleeding and needed stitches? Or if she started colicing?

It's unrealistic to expect everyone with a horse to have huge savings dedicated to emergency costs (although it'd probably HELP, given how accident prone some horses can be) but I think a bare minimum is knowing "okay, if I have to, I can get $X from so-and-so for an emergency call out and to have her put to sleep humanely." - and to be aware that finances might force you to have her put down even though she has a very treatable problem, because you can't afford to treat it.

(And yes, I have put my money where my mouth is on this one - I don't have a horse, but before I adopted my dog I checked out the CareCredit program to make sure that I would qualify for a reasonable amount of money should at some point he need emergency care. I also consulted a couple of relatives to ask if they'd help me out if worst came to worst financially, and agreed to a basic outline of repayment if they needed to loan me money - some kind of payment every month until it was paid off, exact amounts to be determined after the dog was sorted out. Because I could not stand being in the situation where I had to watch him suffer because I couldn't arrange for his care.)

If you can't be certain where you'd get that money, or you couldn't make that decision to put her to sleep if you couldn't afford the care and couldn't make arrangements with your vet, then it really doesn't seem fair to the horse for you to be keeping her. Even if it means you and your parents have to take the loss and give her away because of the current market.

(And if your parents won't let you give her away because they paid for her, then I think your PARENTS need to agree right now to take responsibility for any future emergency vet costs until such time as the economy improves so she can be sold, or until you're in a position where you can realistically afford to provide her with decent basic care - including emergency vet call outs when they're necessary. It's part of maintaining their 'investment' in her - they're not going to be able to sell her if she ends up permanently lame, otherwise injured, or dead because of lack of vet attention.)

[Posting Trot]

I don't think anyone has been telling you to put the horse before your child. Quite the contrary.

If money is tight you should sell the horse as soon as you get her sound. End of story. Yes, the economy is bad so you (or your parents) will take a hit on the price.

But if you're paying $800 a month for board and you're not getting the benefit of riding, that fee adds up pretty fast. A year of that board is $9600, plus the other assorted fees and bills to maintain a (sound) horse. So you could take a large hit on the price and still come up ahead in the medium-term.

The other possibility (if you think you want to keep the mare for your own use) is to move her to a smaller, less expensive facility, perhaps where you might do some of the work. Again, even a small savings in monthly board adds up over a year's time.

Finally, you wondered why people jumped on you. Here are several reasons: 1) you're a relatively new COTH'er; people don't know you and don't have a context for your posts;

2) initially you described a horse that was too thin and falling down lame and combined that with an open statement that you didn't want to spend money on a vet;

3) events as you told them over several posts seemed to change and people worried that you weren't simply filling in details but that you were actively fabricating a story to take the heat off you;

4) in some of your posts you didn't seem particularly motivated to find out what was really wrong with the horse and then act on that knowledge;

5) you lambasted people who gave you what was a *very* reasonable suggestion--that only a vet who has seen the horse personally could give you a definitive diagnosis of what was/is wrong.

Live and learn.

Good luck.

[spaghetti legs]

and on that note, this thread leaves me feeling full and content... like a big bowl of pasta and a nice glass of wine...

http://www.excommerce.com/Portals/4/satisfaction-guaranteed.jpg


Nothing brings the satisfaction like a good old fashioned train wreck, that manages to keep it under ten pages... snappy, with good old fashioned flaming, threats to shut the thread down, suggestions the horse is euth'd, etc. and a CONCLUSION!!! and can I just repeat that it was kept under ten pages?! Incredible!

Give yourselves a pat on the back people!! =)

Now let's see if we can keep a thread about heavy riders to < 10 pages!! =)

[Entourage]

I just got a particularly nasty PM from her telling me I'm ruining her name. Based off my one post where I said I knew the parties involved...with no names listed.

BTW she's also not paying $800 a month for board. She "was" when the horse was at the trainers. Confusing much?

[trubandloki]

I just got a particularly nasty PM from her telling me I'm ruining her name. Based off my one post where I said I knew the parties involved...with no names listed.


YOU are ruining HER name?

Um.....

Yeah.

Your post was clear and concise and ... well had what sounded like good facts.

I am totally missing how you are ruining anybodies anything.

[Rhyadawn]

yea i made a mistake getting pregnant...i also got married moved out and am able to stay at home with my daughter while my husband works because that is what WE decided to do...People will ALWAYS come before horses and i guess unless you have a child you won't understand that because even when i didn't have my daughter i was pissed i wouldn't ride..my parents leased her out and was trying to sell her, but he wouldn't sell because the market sucks so bad and we weren't going to give her away.

my famil will ALWAYS be my top priority. I'm not saying horses aren't because i have to go feed every morning that is about 20 min away and i have to bring my daughter and you know it works for me now..


So i have issues...okay? who doesn't but if someone puts there horse before there child...something is wrong

Unfortunatly in this market, giving them away may be your only option. Horses are expensive and have a knack for getting into trouble when you can least afford it. People know this, and aren't going to pay 20k without seriously questioning it. I've been riding sale horses that 10 years ago would have sold for 25 to 30 that are now selling for 10 or less.

Saying that we wouldn't understand unless we have children of our own. GROW UP! but I supose when I was your age I thought like that too. Then reality came, along with owning my own house, business, car, and going through the loss and rebuild of those things and I realized that even though I've made mistakes I've taken the right actions after.

And as for your horse, I've heard one person say soak with hot water and epsom salts, and it needs repeating. Multiple times a day.

[Moderator 1]

We've removed some posts related to personal information linked to in a sales ad. It's inappropriate to identify another poster if they don't choose to themselves, and we don't allow links to horses for sale on the forums.

You're welcome to provide further suggestions or comments, but please keep it productive.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[spaghetti legs]

I say we just can this whole thing now ;)

no more! Ka-put!

[Huntertwo]

[edit] A diagnosis isn't going to just drop out of the sky like [edit].

YOU and 80 percent of the others on this post should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves and your viciousness. :no:

I just love it when I see people with very few posts pop out of the woodwork to jump on the name calling bandwagon. Before you call someone else a troll, take a look at yourself - especially you, littleum.

The poor girl came on her looking for advice and instead she gets crucified. Troll? Perhaps - I don't know and neither does anyone else. Unreal...:no:

[equinegrl4lyf]

this is bad

[magnolia73]

I only read one page- but for GOD'S SAKE- get a budget, call your vet and help your horse. If he can't accomodate you, ask for a recommendation and tell him that you simply can not afford his fee.

Sometimes you can't afford the best, or all the diagnostics, but your horse needs an educated, experienced set of eyes on her feet. You can get that for under $5000.... OK? I'm willing to bet you can get someome out there to shoot a few films and give you a plan for less than the cost of emergency euthanasia and a call to the renderers.

[magnolia73]

If you had the vet out, and it was a simple abcess, and it cost $1700, you might find a new vet.

If you are on a budget, you need a vet who can work in your level of ability to pay. My horse was lame, vet came out, used hoof testers, pulled shoe, dug out abcess, perscribed antibiotics and a foot soak. Cost maybe $150? Including $75 worth of antibiotics.

Do yourself a favor- find a more affordable vet for this kind of stuff.

[Sakura]

Wow... I remember being a new mom, hubby was in Iraq, no family in the area and a horse farm to take care of... I was a zombie most of the time... if I could just get through the day without crying it was a good day.

My horses weren't getting the usual A+ care they were used to, but they weren't being neglected either... food 2x/day, hay 3x/day and troughs scrubbed and filled once a week... it's A LOT of work with a baby in tow. The cynical non breeders on this forum may not fully get just how much extra it is... especially if PPD is part of the equation (not saying the OP is dealing with PPD, but I sure did).

Calling the vet is one thing... you need to have the vet out to take pictures. No excuses... Bite the bullet and buck up to the responsibilities that come with owning a horse. Had a friend with a lovely Warmblood gelding that exhibited some of the symptoms you describe in your mare... turns out he had a fractured coffin bone... it can be worse than you think... or it can be nothing at all... You mention that you would feel disloyal to your vet if you used another... my mom said that about her OB/GYN when her sister told her to get a second opinion for a problem she was dealing with... second Dr. found stage 3 cancer... my mom would probably be alive today if she hadn't waited so long to get things right.

The vet bill may set you back a couple hundred dollars (really, there are competant vets out there that aren't going to rip you off), but having peace of mind and a plan will be priceless... and you will be able to look into your mare's eyes and see relief not pain.

Good luck whatever you chose...

[Entourage]

If you had the vet out, and it was a simple abcess, and it cost $1700, you might find a new vet.

If you are on a budget, you need a vet who can work in your level of ability to pay. My horse was lame, vet came out, used hoof testers, pulled shoe, dug out abcess, perscribed antibiotics and a foot soak. Cost maybe $150? Including $75 worth of antibiotics.

Do yourself a favor- find a more affordable vet for this kind of stuff.

It's not the vet being expensive...I'm not sure how she is paying/getting quoted these prices. We use the same vet. My horses abcess bill was under $300 and that included x-rays, bute, sedation, and the farm call. This was a few months ago.

[dalpal]

OP..I feel for you...and yes, your daughter does come first.

If I were in your shoes, I would try to give the horse to someone who has time and money to put her back together. She is a beautiful girl!!!

You sound like you are also strapped for time, which is also huge when you are trying to rehabilitate an animal.

Good luck, not trying to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but I just think (from your posts) that it would be in your mare's best interest to find her a new home.

Looking at her previous show pictures, I would bet you could find the right home. Right now, she isn't worth any money if she is lame, but someone might be willing to take a chance on her and put money/time into her rehabilitation. I know I sure would if I were in a position to do that.

[jetsmom]

And please feed her more than one flake of hay per day...

[littleum]

YOU and 80 percent of the others on this post should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves and your viciousness. :no:

I just love it when I see people with very few posts pop out of the woodwork to jump on the name calling bandwagon. Before you call someone else a troll, take a look at yourself - especially you, littleum.

The poor girl came on her looking for advice and instead she gets crucified. Troll? Perhaps - I don't know and neither does anyone else. Unreal...:no:

Have you actually READ the posts? The BS about the "oh woe is me, my vet costs $5K for films"? The excuse after excuse?

So no, I'm not sorry. Not one bit. I might have shown my fangs, but the OP's still showing her arse.

She needs to pull up her big girl panties and deal with it.

[mbm]

threads like this make me sad to be part of the human race. the internet has indeed unleashed the nasty underbelly of human nature. JR high x10. <shakes head sadly>

OP: good luck with our mare.

[Kenike]

Sakura, you are my new hero :)

[hossluva]

The poor girl came on her looking for advice and instead she gets crucified.

She definitely got some advice... I don't think one can expect to open a thread with a weak story rampant with contradictions to which the bottom line is the horse appearing to be in peril due to the decisions its owner is making without expecting, too, to be crucified. At least a little bit. :winkgrin:

Hopefully it is indeed an abscess and the horse will be fine within the month. Then promptly sold or given away!! :yes:

[Filly85']

YOU and 80 percent of the others on this post should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves and your viciousness. :no:

I just love it when I see people with very few posts pop out of the woodwork to jump on the name calling bandwagon. Before you call someone else a troll, take a look at yourself - especially you, littleum.

The poor girl came on her looking for advice and instead she gets crucified. Troll? Perhaps - I don't know and neither does anyone else. Unreal...:no:

Huntertwo, you and I are on the same page. Look at them patting each other on the back for 'a job well done'. You know what I'm thinking... If I said what I was thinking I would surely get kicked off the board. I'm a little more blunt than you so I will refrain myself.

Just blame it on the lack of reading comprehension, education, and human decency. Message boards tend to attract all kinds. No one will ever get anymore sucking up from me on this board.

Well, at least she did get some good advice from a few of the posters who weren't talking down to her. If the rest can't respond to her in a mature manner (most are probably adults who don't even own horses), then their posts don't hold any weight anyway.

[dalpal]

To the OP....

I think most people told you what you needed to hear, but just didn't want to hear it.

NO ONE can diagnosis your horse over the internet. It's one thing to say "Hey, my vet thinks this.....has anyone had any experience with this" vs "Hey diagnosis what's wrong with my horse please, so I do not have to call a vet."

Your horse could have anything wrong with her...it could be nothing, and yet, it could be major.

If you are only giving this horse one flake of hay a day and no grain....you really need to come to reality and realize that you just need to give this horse to someone who can care for her properly. If you do not have the time and have a child...then the horse is better off with someone who does have time and can put her well being first.

You also need to calm down and stop ranting.....you make yourself sound like a lunatic everytime you continue with rants....if you disagree with someone, ignore them or respond in an adult like manner. At 20, you should be able to do this.

Also, when you post something like this on an internet message board....you have just opened yourself up to all sorts of ridicule. If you cannot take the good AND the bad...do yourself a favor...don't post it. It's hard to have any respect for someone who posts that they won't call a vet for a horse that may potentially be in trouble, then go on to rant away when people tell you to call the vet.

It's scary that you have such faith in strangers on an internet board....you should realize that NO ONE can look in a crystal ball and tell you what is wrong with your horse.

I hope you will do right by your mare and give her to someone who has time and money to put this poor thing back together. Holding on to her at this point isn't fair to her (IMO)....you've pretty much stated that she isn't the biggest priority in your life (understandable), but she has got to be with someone who can make her their priority.

[JSwan]

Well, at least she did get some good advice from a few of the posters who weren't talking down to her.

Um - I called BS on the cost of films and the stated refusal to seek veterinary care as required by LAW. Yes, we are required by law to seek adequate veterinary care for our animals - whether or not we can pay for it. Otherwise - we are guilty of animal abuse or cruelty.

The OP lives near me and I'm familiar with THAT practice.

Her personal life is none of my business and I'm not judging her at all. I

I'm only acting on the information given.

Her posts appeared to convey a desperation about stated expenses that are simply not true. When they are not true, her situation, though difficult, is not as desperate. If it is not as desperate, then exactly what is so complicated about having a vet out to check the horse over? Vets around here are really good, work with clients on financial stuff, and try their best to minimize expenses, especially if they know the client is going through a rough time.

She made it appear the animal was in dire straits. If so - get the vet out. If the horse has an abscess, well, that resolves and is a pretty standard typical thing for a horse owner to deal with. Usually you don't need a vet but sometimes you do.

That was the advice given - which is sound. Some of that advice came from a vet.

Starting out in life is tough.... but we all get through it. I feel for her if she's having a rough time but sorry - if an animal is in pain or suffering - ones personal troubles are not an excuse not to have the animal treated.

Had this animal been found down in a pasture and the SPCA and ACO called out to seize it - EVERYONE on this board would have been calling for the OP's head - and letters would be sent to the prosecutor to have her charged with animal abuse and cruelty. Telling her to call the vet NOW avoids that scenario.

I don't know what the real story is and again - it's none of my business and I'm not judging her. I wish her luck in her new life - and I hope this horse is ok.

[Huntertwo]

To the OP....

I think most people told you what you needed to hear, but just didn't want to hear it.

NO ONE can diagnosis your horse over the internet. It's one thing to say "Hey, my vet thinks this.....has anyone had any experience with this" vs "Hey diagnosis what's wrong with my horse please, so I do not have to call a vet."

Your horse could have anything wrong with her...it could be nothing, and yet, it could be major.

If you are only giving this horse one flake of hay a day and no grain....you really need to come to reality and realize that you just need to give this horse to someone who can care for her properly. If you do not have the time and have a child...then the horse is better off with someone who does have time and can put her well being first.

You also need to calm down and stop ranting.....you make yourself sound like a lunatic everytime you continue with rants....if you disagree with someone, ignore them or respond in an adult like manner. At 20, you should be able to do this.

Also, when you post something like this on an internet message board....you have just opened yourself up to all sorts of ridicule. If you cannot take the good AND the bad...do yourself a favor...don't post it. It's hard to have any respect for someone who posts that they won't call a vet for a horse that may potentially be in trouble, then go on to rant away when people tell you to call the vet.

It's scary that you have such faith in strangers on an internet board....you should realize that NO ONE can look in a crystal ball and tell you what is wrong with your horse.

I hope you will do right by your mare and give her to someone who has time and money to put this poor thing back together. Holding on to her at this point isn't fair to her (IMO)....you've pretty much stated that she isn't the biggest priority in your life (understandable), but she has got to be with someone who can make her their priority.

I think at some point, most of us come on here with a mystery symptom and ask for opinions. No? Isn't that what the "Horse Care" section is about?

Of course we should all ask our Vets and not rely on strangers, but it is nice to get some ideas before our Vet has a chance to get out and see the horse.

As far as calming down and stop acting like a lunatic - can you blame her?
Someone went as far as implying she was on Food Stamps and calling her trailer park trash...:no: That was just plain uncalled for.

I don't think she needed 10 pages of people calling her an unfit owner and that she should surrender her horse. And if she can't come up with the money, she shouldn't have a horse.

Perhaps $1,000 to her in her financial situation is like $25,000 to some of us. If my Vet told me my mare needed a $25,000 procedure to save her life and I simply didn't have the money, does that make me an unfit owner?

The name calling was just uncalled for.

[dalpal]

I think at some point, most of us come on here with a mystery symptom and ask for opinions. No? Isn't that what the "Horse Care" section is about?

Of course we should all ask our Vets and not rely on strangers, but it is nice to get some ideas before our Vet has a chance to get out and see the horse.

As far as calming down and stop acting like a lunatic - can you blame her?
Someone went as far as implying she was on Food Stamps and calling her trailer park trash...:no: That was just plain uncalled for.

I don't think she needed 10 pages of people calling her an unfit owner and that she should surrender her horse. And if she can't come up with the money, she shouldn't have a horse.

Perhaps $1,000 to her in her financial situation is like $25,000 to some of us. If my Vet told me my mare needed a $25,000 procedure to save her life and I simply didn't have the money, does that make me an unfit owner?

The name calling was just uncalled for.

If I ask for advice on this site, it is simply for advice...I don't expect someone to diagnosis my horse over the internet...for all I know, I could be taking the advice of a 10 year old. There is nothing wrong with asking for suggestions..but to flat out say.."I don't want to call the vet"...well, you are just asking for ridicule.

Sure, there were some pretty ruthless posts on this thread, but if you don't respond to them, they are the ones who look bad.

I think what got people going, were the outrageous vet billing claims and yet, when people suggested another vet, she said..no. That's when the train started coming.

[mbm]

this thread is plain sick.

if i were the OP i would be calling the cops. they don't take lightly to what some are doing here.

[Ghazzu]

this thread is plain sick.

if i were the OP i would be calling the cops. they don't take lightly to what some are doing here.

Get a grip.

[equinegrl4lyf]

thank you to all the people who have cared throughout this.
Those who did personal attacks have been taken care of.. legally that is..
and the COTH forum admins have been notified.

just so everyone knows you need to be aware of what you say and who you say it to. Because i was the wrong one to insult. I am not scarred of having to take things to the police when it comes to protecting me and my family.

with that said.

I hope you all are really ashamed of the comments such as trailer trash and others...half of you don't even know what was originally said. the Fharoah girl or guy whoever has stated the SAME thing over 5 times in this same post....isn't that "trolling" according to some people? no?

well it doesn't matter because the people who truely attacked me will surely pay there day when it is there time.

I did come on here for ADVICE that is it. Not a diagnosis. NEVER was that what i wanted. I would never ask people like you all for things such as that.

its sad if you ask something the wrong way how everyone gets there little panies up in a bunch.

i type fast and miss spell words because of that... i get called uneducated..

i had a daughter...kept her unlike some poeple would...got married and took on the responsibility of my horse...

I call that freaking GUTS.

i work my butt off along with my husband to be able to live where i do, provide my daughter with EVERYTHING she wants and have my horse where i want with the care that i need.

How dare ANY of you say anything about my situation or my financial situation that is NONE of your bus. I said i wasn't going to call the vet OUT until abs. nes. You all are LYING to everyone if you say that your horse comes in limping and you go running to the vet calling him out.

i've seen other posts on this horse care board with the more "well known" people ask almost the same way i did and NO ONE attacked them.

This world is really sad and i am now scarred to death to have my daughter grow up with people like this in the world.

[Entourage]

Yeah you guys better watch out! When she sends you nasty PMs and curses you out just because you happen to know who she is and who her vet is and who her horse is and where it came from but you don't share any of this with anyone, she will call the cops and have charges pressed against you! Or at least that's what she told me she's doing to me and I got a nice big belly laugh out of it.

[Fharoah]

I expressed my feelings repetitively you are obviously very pretentious. I suggested you find a less expensive vet, harshly because I believe there is no justification for not having a vet look at a horse in pain, the outrageous priced xrays you likely could have held off on for a few weeks once you had the suspected diagnoses of an abscess. I certainly never called your number. Yes I question your truthfulness in the amount you were quoted and charged, it is no ones business except you used the cost as a reason not to get the vet.

Family is the most important thing in my life, my pets are part of my family!

[MistyBlue]

Seriously...why do threads always devolve into ye olde, "I'm calling the cops/gonna sue/you're all in trouble" stuff?
The police do not attend to online insults from a chat forum. Period.
Serious repeated threats of violence specifically spelled out to crtain people by other identifiable people they will turn over to a certain unit...but not online insults.
Unless they've change the laws since I last volunteered for the local PD...this past Saturday. :confused:
If the police did do something about that, then Entourage could press the same charges with her PM from the OP.

Boy is this board getting wonky lately.

[Lulu]

In my humble, amateur opinion, the only party with a legal claim here would be the vet clinic who was publicly accused of charging exorbitant prices to pay for their new digital x-ray machine.

[SmokenMirrors]

thank you to all the people who have cared throughout this.
Those who did personal attacks have been taken care of.. legally that is..
and the COTH forum admins have been notified.

just so everyone knows you need to be aware of what you say and who you say it to. Because i was the wrong one to insult. I am not scarred of having to take things to the police when it comes to protecting me and my family.

with that said.

I hope you all are really ashamed of the comments such as trailer trash and others...half of you don't even know what was originally said. the Fharoah girl or guy whoever has stated the SAME thing over 5 times in this same post....isn't that "trolling" according to some people? no?

well it doesn't matter because the people who truely attacked me will surely pay there day when it is there time.

I did come on here for ADVICE that is it. Not a diagnosis. NEVER was that what i wanted. I would never ask people like you all for things such as that.

its sad if you ask something the wrong way how everyone gets there little panies up in a bunch.

i type fast and miss spell words because of that... i get called uneducated..

i had a daughter...kept her unlike some poeple would...got married and took on the responsibility of my horse...

I call that freaking GUTS.

i work my butt off along with my husband to be able to live where i do, provide my daughter with EVERYTHING she wants and have my horse where i want with the care that i need.

How dare ANY of you say anything about my situation or my financial situation that is NONE of your bus. I said i wasn't going to call the vet OUT until abs. nes. You all are LYING to everyone if you say that your horse comes in limping and you go running to the vet calling him out.

i've seen other posts on this horse care board with the more "well known" people ask almost the same way i did and NO ONE attacked them.

This world is really sad and i am now scarred to death to have my daughter grow up with people like this in the world.

[edit] You type fast so you misspell? Please! It is called spell check, look it up.

A horse depends on us to take care of it and not make excuses. You can't afford feed or care or emergency vet care then give her to someone who can. I have a separate account for my horses in case of things just like what you described. If you can't take care of the animal and continue to make excuses then sell her for whatever you can get for her and let someone who is better financially and settled in their life to devote the time and energy into her and her health and well being. Your comments about the horses pain, the problem, and what your feeding her was ignorant and not at all educated at all. If you can't handle the responsibility then you shouldn't have her. Simple as that.

So welcome to the real world of responsibility and being an adult.

[Entourage]

What I find amusing is she is threatening me just because I happen to know who she is and didn't agree with the pricing she quoted from her vet...because I use THE SAME VET. Apparently that is some way making her uncomfortable or something...who knows. All I know is she PMed me and went off on me with cursing and insults. I've never said her name, posted her name, spoken her name to anyone. Wonder if the people who actually did so and went so far as to call are getting the nasty PMs also? Just baffling and amusing at the same time. I even asked how she is going to file a police report, because people were mean to her online? She can't give a reason. She offered the "report number" the police gave her and I said sure give it to me, she ignored that too and could only reply with a "we'll see" statement.

[HenryisBlaisin']

I'm new here on the forums, and I really don't see this as picking on a newbie.

In most states, failing to provide adequate medical care to an animal is considered animal cruelty. If the OP's horse was lame for more than a day and the vet wasn't called, that is failing to provide adequate medical care, at least IMO.

Does it take guts to have a baby and take care of a horse? I don't know, because I don't have children. My choice, because I'm a responsible adult who takes necessary precaustions. But it does take responsibility. Yes, OP, the baby DOES have to come first. Nobody here has said differently. Keeping the horse may seem brave or noble, but if you have no means to care for it, no matter what emergency arises (whether that's savings or a credit card kept for that sole purpose), then the responsible, mature, brave, noble thing to do is to find the horse a home where his or her care can be managed at the highest level.

I'm not bashing the OP because I'm not telling her what she wants to hear. I've been in the position where I had to make a heartbreaking decision about whether to keep a horse when I didn't really have the money. Because I loved my horse deeply, I made the decision to let her go to a home where I knew she could be provided for. I've also had to make the decision to put a horse down when there was nothing we could do to keep him pain-free. I could have kept him on bute or another drug, but it was clear he was unhappy-so, because I loved him, I let him go. Somethimes loving a horse means doing the right thing, even if the right thing isn't the outcome YOU want. You owe it to the animal to do what's best for the animal, not the owner.

The brave thing is to put your feelings aside, and do what is right for the horse.

[kdow]

I think at some point, most of us come on here with a mystery symptom and ask for opinions. No? Isn't that what the "Horse Care" section is about?

Of course we should all ask our Vets and not rely on strangers, but it is nice to get some ideas before our Vet has a chance to get out and see the horse.

[...]

Perhaps $1,000 to her in her financial situation is like $25,000 to some of us. If my Vet told me my mare needed a $25,000 procedure to save her life and I simply didn't have the money, does that make me an unfit owner?

The name calling was just uncalled for.

I posted to the Around the Farm forum with a question about my dog. Had someone told me that it was a problem for a vet, I would not have responded 'I can't afford a vet' - I would have responded 'okay, thanks, I wasn't sure and I can't afford to take him to the vet for nothing.' Further, if he'd been showing signs of distress or limping or something along those lines, I would not have posted first! I would have taken him to the vet first, and then possibly come back to ask for experiences with the diagnosis. ("Hey, the vet says my dog has rare Floridian[1] Grass-Eating Syndrome, anyone else have experience managing it?")

I do agree that people got more personally vicious than they should have, but some people feel very strongly about animals and animals getting proper care, and I imagine if you've seen an animal put down (or had to put it down) because it had a problem that COULD have been dealt with, but got beyond that point because the owners didn't want to pay for care, it becomes a very emotional issue when it seems like the same thing is happening.

And I totally understand $1000 being a lot of money to some people - it's a lot of money to me. (There's a reason I don't currently own a horse.) But I really think that part of being a responsible owner of an animal is at minimum having access to enough money to pay for the animal to be put to sleep humanely if you're unable to pay for the care. If you can't afford even that much (which it sure sounded like in this case, since she was saying that even to just call the vet out would be more than she wanted to pay) then you need to rethink whether you are able to fairly own that animal.

(Likewise, if you would be unable to make the decision to put the animal down for a treatable problem that you couldn't afford to pay for - if the animal has an issue you need to either deal with it or put the animal out of it's suffering. It's not fair to make it hang around in pain or even make the problem worse by trying out inappropriate fixes because you can't afford the treatment, won't rehome it, and won't just have it euthanized.)

I'm not saying the OP *is* in that situation - but way she presented her case it sounded like it's a distinct possibility, and that means she might need to reassess and make some tough choices - including possibly selling/rehoming the mare at a significant financial loss.

[1]- No offense to people in Florida, I just picked that state because he's originally from there. :)

[Seven-up]

Epic trainwreck thread complete with personal insults and namecalling (by the OP first, of course) followed by apologies for losing her temper, followed by 'ZOMG, u guyse is so meen i'm leeving an nevr comming back' followed 5 minutes later by a revamped (therefore completely different) version of the events followed by one rational poster who gets tackled for simply stating facts, offering verification and NOT revealing names followed by another 'I'm never posting here again' followed by more insults by the OP followed by "threats" (if you can call it that) of 'You don't know who you're messing with I called the cops and I'm suing everyone for being mean to me you just wait you'll see!'


Pleeeeeze. Can I get in on that lawsuit? I haven't had a brush with the law in many years and I've been bored.


And while I was typing, yet another I'm leaving and not coming back. See you in 5 minutes.

[Entourage]

Apparently I'm being sued for talking about her and her family....all my posts on this topic are still here yet I can't seem to find where I said a word about her or her family. Yet she went through and deleted all her posts. Yikes.

[MistyBlue]

Oh, I'm betting those posts have been saved somewhere already.
You know how it is...put something on the internet and it's there forever whether you delete it or not.

A good lesson to learn.

[Seven-up]

Apparently I'm being sued for talking about her and her family....all my posts on this topic are still here yet I can't seem to find where I said a word about her or her family. Yet she went through and deleted all her posts. Yikes.

Well, there are several lawyers on this board who probably would be happy to help you out. If you needed any help, which you don't, because you didn't do anything.


But how has this thread not had the lid put on it yet? Threads get shut down all the time if the wrong person sneezes. Meanwhile, 8 pages later... (EDIT) and 7 makes it 9...

[Go Fish]

I said i wasn't going to call the vet OUT until abs. nes. You all are LYING to everyone if you say that your horse comes in limping and you go running to the vet calling him out.

Hon, yes I do...if my horse is limping/lame, I do call the vet out right away. But that's just me...

Just for the record, define "absolutely necessary." I'd like you to clear that up for us...how bad does it have to get or how long does it have to go on before you reach that point? I think that's what most people have an issue with.

[SmokenMirrors]

Honestly...this has turned HILARIOUS.


well as someone said before let me go to wal-mart with my food stamps!
=]
har har har.

and go back to my trailer?? yea thats funny.

no one should be saying anything about my lifestyle or my horse or WHY i have a child. If you don't know what your talking (which none of you do) i would stop personally.

It became public knowledge when YOU posted it. When one posts on a public forum then it becomes fodder for the masses. If you don't want people to talk smack about you then don't post anything that is worthy to reply to.

Like a few others, I too will call the vet when my horse is limping and I have already gone over them and if I haven't found the reason then they are called out. I try to do what I can on my own but I am always airing on the side of caution, after all, my horses are an investment and my buddies and I love them about as much as my kids. There are even some days I love them more than most people I meet as they aren't rude, they don't like, they don't make snotty comments and they know when to back off.