Groton House 2-phase, which division?

[Daatje]

Ok, so I've decided that I want to try my mare out at the Groton House 2-phase at the end of the month. She's grown up a lot since the last time I tried to jump her in competition (summer 2007). Since then she has foxhunted and is much more consistent over fences at home......I'm still not convinced that she'll be as brave away from home as she has become at home, but I won't find out unless I try, I suppose......

I'm not sure which division I should enter her in and would like to know what you would do if it were your horse......

It's between Elementary and Beginner Novice.

She is a 1st level dressage horse and can jump 3' quite consistantly at home so I'd feel quite silly at the elementary level (2' fences/walk trot test) however away from home she loses alot of confidence. I'm wondering if the 2 foot fences, as dinky as they are, would be better for her in the "away from home" setting. Perhaps Elementary would be a better confidence building experience for her than Beginner Novice?

I was looking at the photos from last year on the Flatlands site and there really didn't seem to be too much difference between the E and BN fences, just the few inches.....

I want to give her the best chance at completing this competition and walking away with a positive experience. She jumps better when the fences have more height, but I'm wondering if at the show, the extra 7" might be a deal breaker for her if her confidence isn't up to snuff that day......

So, if you had a 1st level dressage horse that could jump 3' at home but was still a weeney at competitions, which would you do?

[yellowbritches]

Depends on how big a weenie YOU are ;) For ME, nursing a well schooled but chicken hearted horse over a BN course (I'm assuming by 2 phase we are talking dressage and show jumping??) is not a big deal and usually by the half way mark they've gotten the hang of it and are going gamely to the fences. However, I have a bit of experience with taking horses to their first shows and even found out (by accident) that an old training horse I used to ride needed to be nursed and, occasionally, stuffed, at training a couple of times. But that's ME.

If you get a little nervous or are afraid you won't be able to ride the way a looky, green horse needs to be ridden, go little. No shame in that.

[Daatje]

Depends on how big a weenie YOU are ;) For ME, nursing a well schooled but chicken hearted horse over a BN course (I'm assuming by 2 phase we are talking dressage and show jumping??) is not a big deal and usually by the half way mark they've gotten the hang of it and are going gamely to the fences. However, I have a bit of experience with taking horses to their first shows and even found out (by accident) that an old training horse I used to ride needed to be nursed and, occasionally, stuffed, at training a couple of times. But that's ME.

If you get a little nervous or are afraid you won't be able to ride the way a looky, green horse needs to be ridden, go little. No shame in that.

Good point! :) I'm brave when jumping, I LOVE to jump......the thing that gets me is the fear of being embarrassed by an uncooperative pony! That's silly now isn't it... Now I'm being a weeney about the possibility of my pony being a weeney!

I don't have to decide until Friday, when I'm going to send in my entry. :) I should probably just get over myself and ride her BN. If we get the big "E", then so be it. Won't know where we stand unless I try.

You see, what has me so hesitant is this: The last time I took her out was at the BN level at Green Acres. She was mentally checked out from the start. Barely got her through dressage (didn't want to go down the c-line because she didn't like where the ring was, totally off the aids and disobedient....this is a horse that scores mid 60's at dressage shows in 1st leve) and got 1/2 way through xc when she just stopped.....in the middle of the course, not a fence in sight, and flat refused to go any further. I had spurs and crop, nothing had any effect. She was so naughty and stubborn that day! I retired, quite embarrassed, that my horse quit on me.

She's come a long way in the past 2 years, but I'm afraid of her quitting on me again. I can ride looky, spooky, green, nervous.....but hand me flat out stubborn and I'm at a loss.

I suppose if she's in a quitting mood, fence height isn't going to matter......

We should just have a go at it and see what happens....

Here are a couple of shots of her from last November. She can do it when she wants to.
http://www.freewebs.com/daatje2008/easycare%20daatje%20jump.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/daatje2008/easycare%20daatje%20jump%203.jpg

Maybe I'm dwelling too much on past experiences. I think I need to take her out and ride the horse I have today, not anticipate the one I had two years ago......

[yellowbritches]

Oh, goodness! She's cute!

If she's been foxhunting well, I think the "go" button is well and truly fixed. The biggest thing you can do for her is to make sure she is 110% in front of your leg from the moment you swing into the saddle, and keep her there. Make this first venture all about being positive and forward and try not to worry about the fact that it might be goofy in front of an audience. Stay tall in the saddle. If she were my horse, I'd probably give her a couple of taps or even a swat behind my leg going to the first fence or two, just to make sure she gets that the name of the game is FORWARD, and don't give up until you are through the finish flags. If you ride her positively and forward, she will gain a lot of confidence from that.

[mjrtango93]

I would think if your confident over fences your horse would learn more from BN. He is more then capable of the height, and could quite honestly walk over any fence on a BN course if it came to that. Foxhunting should have helped with installing the go button so I say go for it. If you still have issues after this show maybe try to find a hunter pace to ease him into cross country without the pack. That way you can take a trusty goer with you and its just the 2 of them and not 20. I have a feeling you will be pleasantly surprised how much he's grown in the past 2 years though.

[Finn'sMom]

Some 2 phases let you do an extra jumping round. Maybe you could go around once at elementary to gain confidence, then do a round at BN. It might be worth looking into.

Just an idea - I think from your posts that you are both quite capable of going BN and are going to be pleasantly surprised!

[frugalannie]

Oh believe me, there are some very interesting rides at the GHF two phase every year! You cannot POSSIBLY be embarrassed. Everyone out there knows what it's like in the spring: Some will come out and be perfect, some will have a meltdown (rider or horse) and most will be somewhere in the middle. It's a lot of fun and a great chance to see everyone again.

For my horses, I think that the elementary fences are so small that it gives a 3' horse an excuse to not pay attention and instead react to a) the judge's stand b) the ponies in the field over yonder c) the horse that just got loose in warm-up d) the wind and e) etc.

[Daatje]

Oh, goodness! She's cute!

If she's been foxhunting well, I think the "go" button is well and truly fixed. The biggest thing you can do for her is to make sure she is 110% in front of your leg from the moment you swing into the saddle, and keep her there. Make this first venture all about being positive and forward and try not to worry about the fact that it might be goofy in front of an audience. Stay tall in the saddle. If she were my horse, I'd probably give her a couple of taps or even a swat behind my leg going to the first fence or two, just to make sure she gets that the name of the game is FORWARD, and don't give up until you are through the finish flags. If you ride her positively and forward, she will gain a lot of confidence from that.

That is awesome advice, thank-you! I will do my best to ride her forward from the get-go and not let her mind (or mine!) wander.....I think we're going to sign up for BN.

[Daatje]

Oh believe me, there are some very interesting rides at the GHF two phase every year! You cannot POSSIBLY be embarrassed. Everyone out there knows what it's like in the spring: Some will come out and be perfect, some will have a meltdown (rider or horse) and most will be somewhere in the middle. It's a lot of fun and a great chance to see everyone again.

For my horses, I think that the elementary fences are so small that it gives a 3' horse an excuse to not pay attention and instead react to a) the judge's stand b) the ponies in the field over yonder c) the horse that just got loose in warm-up d) the wind and e) etc.

Good to know! :D If we look goofy, we won't be alone. :)

That is my concern about the lower fences. She will just bumble over them, not really paying attention to them...... Not just her either....I'm equally as guilty of not paying attention to the tiny fences!

Last year we went (to the GH2 phase) and just did a dressage test. I love it there, so just going to spend the day with my horse will be a lot of fun. :) Hope for a nice, sunny day!

[Daatje]

I would think if your confident over fences your horse would learn more from BN. He is more then capable of the height, and could quite honestly walk over any fence on a BN course if it came to that. Foxhunting should have helped with installing the go button so I say go for it. If you still have issues after this show maybe try to find a hunter pace to ease him into cross country without the pack. That way you can take a trusty goer with you and its just the 2 of them and not 20. I have a feeling you will be pleasantly surprised how much he's grown in the past 2 years though.

That's a good idea, attending some hunter paces. Our hunt, the Wentworth, hosts several throughout the season and I was planning on attending the one in June at least.

She continues to amaze me with how much she has grown up between the ages of 6 and 8, so you are most likely right about me being pleasantly suprised with her at the 2 phase.

I think we'll try it (at BN) and see what happens. :)

[RiverBendPol]

Oh believe me, there are some very interesting rides at the GHF two phase every year! You cannot POSSIBLY be embarrassed. Everyone out there knows what it's like in the spring: Some will come out and be perfect, some will have a meltdown (rider or horse) and most will be somewhere in the middle. It's a lot of fun and a great chance to see everyone again.

For my horses, I think that the elementary fences are so small that it gives a 3' horse an excuse to not pay attention and instead react to a) the judge's stand b) the ponies in the field over yonder c) the horse that just got loose in warm-up d) the wind and e) etc.
:eek:You're not thinking of anyone in parTICular, I trust!:cool:

[frugalannie]

Well, for the "Perfect" rider, I had you in mind, Pol.

[quietann]

to OP, good for you for trying BN. It's not that much of a difference in fence height. You should have fun!

I may be there with my mare, but just for dressage in the afternoon, *if* I have a trailer and an assistant. Both of us are a lot happier and calmer now that we're not jumping, but I want to "ride at Groton House" in one way or another, and this looks like how to do it. If we make it, look for the "newly minted gold" Palomino.

[joharavhf]

I think I've recently discovered that my horse jumps BETTER over the higher heights. Just today he basically threw himself over a hay bale and KNOCKED it over....but then jumped fabulously over a bigger (2'3???) pile of logs....

If your horse is like that then I'd go with the BN division.