Barfing dog. . .why?

[Mara]

Lance is some sort of hound cross (he's a rescue), 5 years old, about 50 lbs. He lately has had more barf episodes than I am comfortable with. Usually at night (and always on the carpet, natch). He seems fine afterwards - he's his usual friendly, perky, tail-waving Lance self, ready to engage in whatever activity his humans have in mind. Stools are fine, water intake normal, no weight loss, appetite change, temperature, lethargy - none of that. I did take him to the vet, and blood panel was normal. We came home with a small bag and a couple cans of I/D, which he ate just fine. This was two weeks ago, and Saturday night he had one episode resulting in three little puddles of puppy puke.

Barf consistency depends on how long it's been since a meal. He has a rescue "brother", Simon, who hasn't had any of this vomiting behavior.

Neither dog eats table food, at all. I am zipping up the flame-proof suit now. . .

I feed Pedigree, with a squirt of flaxseed oil on it.

So, any ideas? I am baffled by this - the dogs don't go out unless they are with me - usually at the end of a leash, so I would know if they chowed down on something they shouldn't have. Even when we get to run free, it's a small fenced playground area, and I can see them at all times.

I just want to make sure Lance is okay. I think it bothers me more than it bothers him.

[WhisperHeart]

my big leonberger/great pyr cross would barf up beneful(what the shelter fed) couldn't keep it down at all so i imediately started to switch him to Diamond Naturals Large Breed 60+, after i switched him to the diamond the barfing stopped completely


Lance's system just may not be able to handle the pedigree and therefore he throws it back up....try switching him to something else it might stop


i also have a cat that use to throw up alot finally found a food he keeps down

[page3girl]

I have an old cat that barfs if she doesn't get her daily dose of 1/2 a pepcid AC (yes, the same stuff you guy at the pharamacy). She also gets 1 cc of enulose daily. Bloodwork/vet exam doesn't point to anything more then a "delicate constitution." It's also imporant that what she eats is pretty closely regulated. She's a total snarfer, so if you leave dirty dishes in the sink, she's on 'em and likely to throw up from licking up rich remains.

When I've had a couple episodes where my golden retriever had some serious tummy upset, took her to the vet, and got pretty much the same RX: the pepcid AC and be very, very careful about what she eats (and my golden eats anything and everything on the property!). Sometimes, it seems they just need something like the pepcid to help settle their stomachs/break the cycle if they are throwing up daily.

I agree with the previous suggestion about food. With both of these guys, I have to be very careful about what pet foods to feed. The wrong one, while very desirable to the snarfer, is apt to be too much for their systems. I've heard vets and local folks with more knowledge about feeding cats/dogs than I have caution that some brands, while very high quality, may be too rich for some.

[citydog]

Is he retching and heaving and horking (vomiting)? Or is he sort of easily blorping up food (regurgitating)?

If he's regurgitating he might have a condition called megaesophagus. There's a brilliant Yahoo Group (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/megaesophagus/) with information on that. Not a great condition, but it can be quite manageable.

If it *is* vomiting, it could be that the food you're feeding just doesn't agree with him (maybe he doesn't handle grain well or whatever), or that he needs more smaller meals rather than one or two big ones.

Good luck.

[jetsmom]

If he does it when his stomach is empty try feeding smaller meals more often.

[Simkie]

I'd also consider food allergies and would try switching to something without corn, wheat or soy. I'm a huge fan of California Natural for dogs like this--my Samoyed was the same way. Switching food stopped the urping.

[Dance_To_Oblivion]

I would also recommend switching up foods. My boxer used to vomit more then normal and then I switched foods ( I've used 100% organic food with success as well as Diamond Chicken & Rice Naturals, and some other more organic/holistic food that worked for her). Also second feeding smaller meals with increased frequency.

Good luck because that is certainly not a fun problem to have!

[Pancakes]

I would nix the flaxseed oil -- dogs can't metabolize it well, and it doesn't add anything but calories to them. Fish oil is a much better source of fatty acids (omega 3s) and have so many more benefits than flaxseed oil -- joints, heart, coat, etc. The flax oil might be upsetting his stomach (high fat content delays gastric emptying).

Is he vomiting when he goes a long time between meals? Is it often on an empty stomach, at night or in the morning, or green (like bile)? Some dogs have bilious vomiting syndrome where their stomachs get upset if not fed often enough. I second whoever said to break up the overall amount he's getting into smaller, more frequent meals. See if that helps.

[JB]

First thing I'd do is switch to a higher quality food and see if that helps. Ok, first thing would be to stop the flax oil, just in case ;) But beyond that I'd still switch to something higher quality. Pedigree is full of corn, and while it may have been fine to begin with, it's just not very easily digestible and is a common allergen - something he may have developed over time.

[Posting Trot]

Yes, I think you need to switch the food.

I have a wheaten who all of her life has had issues with barfing, and I tried many different foods over the years (she is now 14+). Interestingly (well, it's interesting to me, anyway :D) two things happened in the past year.

One was that she got a horrendous case of mites. Really horrendous. Bad. Anyway, she had to have 7 doses (one every two weeks) of something like triple strength ivermectin to deal with the mites. And she also had to have two rounds of antibiotics to deal with secondary skin infections. Like I said, bad.

Second, she suddenly got a lot creakier, and she didn't seem to tolerate either Rimadyl or Deramaxx well at all. So, she's been on one aspirin (people aspirin) per day. She's not creaky at all any more.

And I changed her food to a combination of Organix (a chicken and rice based kibble) and the Honest Kitchen's Embark (a dehydrated raw food based on turkey which you then rehydrate).

She's eating better than she has in her entire life, and she's had no episodes of barfing at all (of course I'm jinxing myself).

Now, was it the ivermectin? The antibiotics? The aspirin? or the new food? Or some combination?

I suspect it's a combination of these things, or maybe something else suddenly changed that made her tolerate her food better.

Good luck.

[OffTheHook]

Ditto the switching foods. My mix from the local shelter developed this problem overnight after she reached adulthood. She couldn't keep anything down, would throw up undigested food and the yellow vomit of an empty stomach. Had a barium series done to make sure she didn't have a blockage and she came up clean. She didn't have any other symptoms, just the vomiting. She'd even throw up boiled chicken and rice and the I/D from the vet.

At the suggestion of a fellow student from our agility class I switched her to a limited ingredient diet food, free of grains and soy. She didn't throw up a single meal after that until I tried her back on Purina One and she started vomitting again. Natural Balance LID is her food now. It's more expensive than the supermarket foods but totally worth it. You can find it at Petco if you're interested. Good luck and I hope your puppy gets well soon!

[Mara]

Thanks all. Yes, I do wrestle sometimes with the food issues! I suppose I need to look at getting some higher quality foods online. And I did not know that about flaxseed oil. We'll save it for human consumption only from now on.

His barf episodes are generally about once/week or every ten days, and usually they are preceded by a great show of "heaving and horking" as someone put it. Sometimes it's just a little pool of mostly digested food and bile; the other night it was a giant pile of moist kibble, about three hours after eating. (He was gracious enough to do it outside, right at the end of our walk!) The dogs do eat 2x/day, BTW; never right before or right after heavy exercise.

Ulcers are something I hadn't considered either. I think I'll try the food switch first, see if that helps.

As I said, I think I worry more about this than the dog. He is in the prime of a fit, healthy life - great teeth, no skin issues, coat is shiny. If there is something more insidious wrong I'd rather catch it before other manifestations become apparent. . .

Also it would be nice to not have to worry about the non-barfing dog eating Lance's leavings. :sigh: It's such fun, trying to simultaneously check on Lance, grab the cleaning supplies, and keep Simon out of the vomit puddle all at the same time.

[gypsymare]

Try a food with no corn, wheat or soy. You may even want to nix the rice. If he gets better then you can try adding back in the ingredients one at a time to figure out which one he's sensitive to, or just keep him on the food that works. Sometimes it's even a type of protein that they can be allergic to so there are formulations that exclude chicken or red meat. He may have loose bowels for a bit through the transition. Innova Evo (there is chicken and red meat types) and Wellness Core are two to try off the top of my head. These are no-filler foods which you can feed much less of and will pass through the stomach more quickly than a large meal of a corn-based food.

How fast does he eat? He could be sucking a lot of air in with his kibble resulting in bloat. Making it soggy can slow them down and speed up digestion, or feed it in something like a Tug-a-Jug.

[Mara]

Definitely will switch food!
Both he and his bro are pretty speedy eaters, which isn't unusual as they both came from rescue groups who fostered several dogs at once. All of the healthy dogs with no "issues" were fed together, resulting in the mindset of "eat it as fast as you can before your neighbors come barging in". They've slowed WAAAY down, though.

I did forget to mention that both dogs also get a couple of heaping spoonfuls of canned pumpkin (not pie filling, plain pumpkin) with their evening meal. Simon doesn't need it, but Lance gets sort of stopped up if he doesn't get the extra fiber. It's not horrible constipation or anything, but long time squatting, and it can take literally most of the 45 min-1 hour walk before he finally goes. The pumpkin is the magic trick there (nice when it's raining, and no one wants to stay out for upwards of an hour).

On the Innova, or any food with lower grain content, would this be more of a problem? God, I know I sound ridiculous, worrying if my dog doesn't make poopy at least 2x/day!

[Simkie]

On the Innova, or any food with lower grain content, would this be more of a problem? God, I know I sound ridiculous, worrying if my dog doesn't make poopy at least 2x/day!

I can tell you that for my Samoyed with urping and allergy issues, Innova was WAY too rich. We tried a few times with her, and her stools never firmed up on it. California Natural (made by the same company as Innova) was just right for her--it's still a really high-quality food, but with just a few ingredients and not as rich as Innova or Innova EVO or Wellness CORE.

My dogs on Innova (the two I currently own) and the old Samoyed on Cal Nat and the various dogs I've had in between on Innova/Cal Nat had no potty issues.

[Pancakes]

Thanks all. Yes, I do wrestle sometimes with the food issues! I suppose I need to look at getting some higher quality foods online. And I did not know that about flaxseed oil. We'll save it for human consumption only from now on.

His barf episodes are generally about once/week or every ten days, and usually they are preceded by a great show of "heaving and horking" as someone put it. Sometimes it's just a little pool of mostly digested food and bile; the other night it was a giant pile of moist kibble, about three hours after eating. (He was gracious enough to do it outside, right at the end of our walk!) The dogs do eat 2x/day, BTW; never right before or right after heavy exercise.

Ulcers are something I hadn't considered either. I think I'll try the food switch first, see if that helps.

As I said, I think I worry more about this than the dog. He is in the prime of a fit, healthy life - great teeth, no skin issues, coat is shiny. If there is something more insidious wrong I'd rather catch it before other manifestations become apparent. . .


So you're right to worry. Often times, chronic vomiting can be a sign of other things.

First off, have him dewormed, even if you think there's no chance he has worms. Empirical deworming is cheap and often has surprising results. Panacur is a good choice; it gets giardia, hooks, and rounds. You'd have to go to Drontal if you want to get tapeworms. (Is he on flea/tick/heartworm prevention??)

Second, switch the food to one that is low-fat, low-fiber, and easily digestible. If the I/D worked, why not stick with it? It is essential that the formulation is consistent, so commercial diets are best. Hill's, Iams, Royal Canin, and Purina all make many different formulas that fit this criteria. Pedigree Weight Maintenance also does.

My little food allergy Soapbox: Food allergies are relatively rare. Contrary to popular belief, most food allergies are protein-based, not corn or grain-based. And, if you think your dog has a food allergy, you must do the following two things:
1. Find a source of carbohydrate and protein that your dog has NEVER eaten before. This includes table scraps, treats, and any food product (read the labels!). Sound hard? There are many weird sources out there (like kangaroo and oat, capelina and tapioca, venison and potato) for those dogs with a very varied dietary history. This is why I tell owners to not change up their dogs' foods so much -- when something happens, you are left with very few choices.
2. You must do the trial for 8 weeks before deciding whether or not it works.

Third, many dogs with a normal chem/CBC panel have underlying problems. If he does have ulcers, it's due to a secondary problem. Is he on any other medication? NSAIDs? Endoscopy is the best way to identify ulcers.

Fourth, have your vet rule out everything else. Radiographs can help look at many organs at once and give a lot of clues. If you have the money, abdominal ultrasound can rule out a lot of things at once, and if he has some sort of IBD, the vet may be able to see some evidence on ultrasound. A barium study could identify a gastric outflow obstruction or some anatomical reason for the vomiting.


Anyway. For your dog, I would suggest switching back to an easily digestible diet such as I/D (or I can suggest a list of brands/specific formulations) which is low-fat, low-fiber. I would also suggest going through a round of deworming just in case. If that doesn't help, then doing radiographs and a urinalysis (to assess kidney function) would be my next step. And then ultrasound, etc...

Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you'd like a list of foods or if you have any other questions.

[yankeeclipper]

My dog was always getting an upset stomach from the protein levels of the food, peanut butter, cheese. Those were the 3 worst that gave him an upset belly. Changing to a low protein diet and not feeding anything with cheese or peanut butter eliminated the problem.

[Ben and Me]

And I did not know that about flaxseed oil. We'll save it for human consumption only from now on.


On another random note...I was at Whole Foods the other day and was offered samples of flavored Flaxseed Oil and Fish Oil. I checked out the ingredients--both have xylitol as sweeteners. Please check the flaxseed oil you're giving and make sure it doesn't have xylitol as that can be fatal to dogs. (First link I saw was from Snopes, and it agrees with what I've heard from our vets... http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/xylitol.asp ) Just a little PSA :)

[Pancakes]

On another random note...I was at Whole Foods the other day and was offered samples of flavored Flaxseed Oil and Fish Oil. I checked out the ingredients--both have xylitol as sweeteners. Please check the flaxseed oil you're giving and make sure it doesn't have xylitol as that can be fatal to dogs. (First link I saw was from Snopes, and it agrees with what I've heard from our vets... http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/xylitol.asp ) Just a little PSA :)


Yes, xylitol is toxic to dogs. It's also found in many kinds of sugarfree gum, so be careful!

The kinds of fish oil you give to dogs (and yourself!) should NOT be flavored, though. Capsules are just fine. CVS brand is actually really good and proven to contain what the claim (something nutriceuticals often don't). You want a ratio of 180 mg EPA/120 mg DHA, and give one 1000mg capsule per 10 lbs body weight. Those capsules shouldn't have sweetener in them, and dogs should LOVE the taste of the fish oil on their food (just pop the capsule and squeeze it on). Nordic Naturals also makes a good fish oil (omega 3) blend.

[Mara]

Wow, lots of info. I did know that about xylitol; I'm a pretty careful dog mom and try to keep up on things like this. (I am the one who, at parties, scolds people for feeding scraps to the dogs, and once lunged at a startled owner yelling, "NO! Don't feed them grapes! Grapes are toxic to dogs!" Fortunately she was grateful for the intervention, once she got over her shock. . .)

Anyway, yes, both dogs are on heartworm preventative year-round - Interceptor, with the extras, because the other, non-vomiting dog is quite a grazer and tends to get whipworms.

I had not considered I/D year round. . .he didn't have any episodes of vomiting at all while he was on it. (Now I feel guilty for just blithely switching him back to the Pedigree. Duh, Mara).

So I'll start there. He is due for his yearly check-up in a month, but no reason I can't just go early to get a handle on this. I don't really care about the carpets, I don't. I just want my guy 100% healthy.

[kdow]

The kinds of fish oil you give to dogs (and yourself!) should NOT be flavored, though. Capsules are just fine. CVS brand is actually really good and proven to contain what the claim (something nutriceuticals often don't). You want a ratio of 180 mg EPA/120 mg DHA, and give one 1000mg capsule per 10 lbs body weight. Those capsules shouldn't have sweetener in them, and dogs should LOVE the taste of the fish oil on their food (just pop the capsule and squeeze it on). Nordic Naturals also makes a good fish oil (omega 3) blend.

Someone who had various brands tested for heavy metal content (and accuracy of labeling) also reported that the CostCo Kirkland brand is good - so that's a relatively reasonably priced option.

(Note that this was not a study conducted by a science group, though - just someone a friend knows who paid for the testing out of pocket for some reason.)

[Pancakes]

Someone who had various brands tested for heavy metal content (and accuracy of labeling) also reported that the CostCo Kirkland brand is good - so that's a relatively reasonably priced option.

(Note that this was not a study conducted by a science group, though - just someone a friend knows who paid for the testing out of pocket for some reason.)

Very true! It is a good brand. Consumerlab I believe does some great testing and they also recommend Kirkland (CostCo) brand. In fact, a LOT of their supplements are great.

[Pancakes]

My dog was always getting an upset stomach from the protein levels of the food, peanut butter, cheese. Those were the 3 worst that gave him an upset belly. Changing to a low protein diet and not feeding anything with cheese or peanut butter eliminated the problem.

I think it is more the fat levels in peanut butter and cheese rather than protein that would make stomachs upset.... but low protein, low fat both increase rates of gastric emptying and therefore cause less gastric issues.

[Mara]

Someone who had various brands tested for heavy metal content (and accuracy of labeling) also reported that the CostCo Kirkland brand is good - so that's a relatively reasonably priced option.

(Note that this was not a study conducted by a science group, though - just someone a friend knows who paid for the testing out of pocket for some reason.)

Good to know, as my husband has been taking them for 4 years!

[wendy]

God, I know I sound ridiculous, worrying if my dog doesn't make poopy at least 2x/day!
you do know it is NOT normal for dogs to poop more than once a day? dogs who poop more often are usually being fed cheap food full of fillers or have some problem with their diet such that they aren't digesting it properly.