anyone hear that frontline has become ineffecive against fleas and ticks?

[marta]

if so what do you use on your farm animals these days?

i heard this from a farm owner whose local small animal vet told her that the clients in the area have been complaining that frontline suddenly does nothing for fleas and ticks. they're recommending some new product starts w/ "v" and is sold only by veterinarians (???). so far i made one application of frontline this year and have not seen any fleas. ticks do attach but i think that's how it goes w/ frontline - they attach and die, right?

[TrueColours]

It may well be a regional issue

The fleas and ticks in your area, due to heavy use of frontline by pet owners, may have built up a resistance to Frontline, but in my area, we dont have as many users of it so it still works just fine

Its the same with fly sprays. The "popular" ones work great for a few years and then dont work at all after that and you need to switch to a new one as the flies build up a resistance to the former one

[redhorse7]

I don't know about Frontline b/c we use Revolution, but this year we're still fighting ticks on the face and ears even with regular application. No fleas, just the ticks and they're sticking! But judging by the number we're finding on the faces, they are really, really bad this year....:no:

[mroades]

Frontline quit working around here about five years ago

[mvp]

Frontline did diddly for my cats (fleas were the problem, not ticks) after 2 years. I'm in Central New York. Revolution is working much better.

[gammillgirl]

Frontline doesn't work!

I found out a little too late, my German Shepherd got Lymes Disease from a tick bite last year.

When I brought him in for hip xrays because he was very lame in the hind end, and so of course with a GSD I am thinking, oh crap, his hips right? Well vet said just to be safe lets also do a tick titer (sp?) His test came back super positive for Lymes, I was in disbelief, I kept saying but he's on frontline, thats when the vet said, oh ya, that hasn't been very effective for the past few yrs. GREAT! so now I have a 2 year old GSD suffering from a horrible case of Lymes.

We now have the dogs on K-9 Advantix, don't know if it works, haven't seen any fleas or ticks....but the damage is already done. Carbon now lives on Previcoxx and Adequan. He does have hip dysplasia, but the vet said that it was the Lymes that worsened the condition and will continue to make him get worse at a faster rate. My poor boy =(

[CB/TB]

My small animal vet recommends K-9 Advantix over Frontline, although they sell both. She thinks it has more repellant qualities. I use the Advantix and we're pretty happy with it. My dogs are out with me several times a day and ( hoping I don't jinxit!) I haven't found a tick on either of them. It is still cool and thegrass is short, but still!

[Daydream Believer]

I had a major resistance issue here at my place with Frontline last Fall. We had a huge flea infestation despite using it as we had for years. My vets said they knew of others with a similar issue despite assurances from the company that there was no proven resistance. I switched to Comfortus for the dogs and Advantage for the cats, used the premise spray, and no more fleas! We thankfully don't have a huge tick problem with our dogs and cats here (fire ants eat the ticks) so I have not found a tick on them yet this season.

Interestingly back in 2006, we had a dog nearly die of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever but that was before the fire ants moved in....and we were using Frontline then. Fire Ants are not good for much but they do seem to really keep down the tick population.

[Jenn2674]

Frontline doesn't work!

I found out a little too late, my German Shepherd got Lymes Disease from a tick bite last year.

When I brought him in for hip xrays because he was very lame in the hind end, and so of course with a GSD I am thinking, oh crap, his hips right? Well vet said just to be safe lets also do a tick titer (sp?) His test came back super positive for Lymes, I was in disbelief, I kept saying but he's on frontline, thats when the vet said, oh ya, that hasn't been very effective for the past few yrs. GREAT! so now I have a 2 year old GSD suffering from a horrible case of Lymes.

We now have the dogs on K-9 Advantix, don't know if it works, haven't seen any fleas or ticks....but the damage is already done. Carbon now lives on Previcoxx and Adequan. He does have hip dysplasia, but the vet said that it was the Lymes that worsened the condition and will continue to make him get worse at a faster rate. My poor boy =(

I don't think any of them work 100% do they? My best friend and her dog that was on Advantix got Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever two years ago. They were both very, very sick.

I've always used Frontline Plus and my vet, who we just saw a month ago, said to keep on using it.

[Bluey]

I don't know about Frontline b/c we use Revolution, but this year we're still fighting ticks on the face and ears even with regular application. No fleas, just the ticks and they're sticking! But judging by the number we're finding on the faces, they are really, really bad this year....:no:


We have been using Revolution successfully for some years, but this year our vet told us it is not working as well any more and, since we don't have cats, to try that one a month pill Sentinel and a Preventic collar.
Seems to be working fine, as little dog has been around mice, rat and rabbit dens as we cleared some old lumber out and still doesn't has any fleas or ticks on her.

I would go with what your local vet is seeing working in your area.

[092556]

We gave up on frontline about 10 years ago, then went to advantage which worked for a several years, it would last almost 2 months for a long time. We have been using K-9 Advantix for the last 4 years, we don't do it every month, we do it as needed.

[pj]

Front Line worked really well here until last year and then fleas almost ate up everyone's dog. Vet switched us to Advantage and it works fast and well. Front line still works on the ticks around here, just not fleas.

[MunchkinsMom]

Guess I am the only one that has my dogs on Comfortis now for fleas and ticks?

I did read somewhere that some of the topic stuff is not working any longer, but I can't remember where I read it.

[RedTahoe]

We use Revolution: Fleas, Ticks, and Heartworms.

[Guin]

I haven't "heard" it, I know it personally to be true. Frontline stopped being effective in Massachusetts about four years ago. I gave up and switched over to tick collars that I replace every eight weeks. Hopefully the ticks won't become immune to the collars until my nine-year-old dog is dead and gone.

[Ghazzu]

I haven't "heard" it, I know it personally to be true. Frontline stopped being effective in Massachusetts about four years ago. I gave up and switched over to tick collars that I replace every eight weeks. Hopefully the ticks won't become immune to the collars until my nine-year-old dog is dead and gone.


Been working fine for me in MA.

[BelladonnaLily]

Frontline seems to be working fine for fleas on my farm dogs here in Va. The reason I know this is because if there is ONE flea in my house, it will tear me up (and leave hubby alone). Fleas LOVE me for some reason :lol:

That said, doesn't do a thing for ticks. We found this out 2 years ago when we started finding more ticks, then one dog tested positive for the lyme antibodies. This year, we did Frontline early, but I accidentally order the wrong size Preventic collars so they went several weeks without...we found ticks all over the house and on them. As soon as I got to the vet to pick up the collars, not a tick to be found.

Now, we live on a large farm and our dogs spend alot of time running through fields and woods while we are walking, trail riding, etc. So, they have lots of exposure to ticks. But the Preventic collars so far have been the best.

[IFG]

I used Frontline Plus monthly for several years, and it was great. Then one month last summer, it quit working. I used Advantix for a few months, then went back to Frontline Plus again, and it worked fine. I suspect it is like wormers, and cycling helps to avoid resistance.

[okggo]

We haven't noticed resistence but I did ask our small animal vet about Frontline and she said that is their favorite product, and what they recommend to all their clients (in Maryland).

The rotational thing just plain makes sense though....may have to strong arm them into letting us get a different brand.

[Raleigh's Mom]

I noticed that Frontline was no longer working for my dogs about 2 years ago. Same thing with the Advantage products. My vet did say that they are starting to hear the this from their other clients as well. Last year, I switched the dogs heartworm preventitive to Sentinel, which has really helped with the fleas. My vet recommended Preventic collars for the ticks, but I have just been checking the dogs for ticks. Two of them sleep in the bed with us, and I am not crazy about the idea of the tick collars.

[Bluey]

I noticed that Frontline was no longer working for my dogs about 2 years ago. Same thing with the Advantage products. My vet did say that they are starting to hear the this from their other clients as well. Last year, I switched the dogs heartworm preventitive to Sentinel, which has really helped with the fleas. My vet recommended Preventic collars for the ticks, but I have just been checking the dogs for ticks. Two of them sleep in the bed with us, and I am not crazy about the idea of the tick collars.

I take the flea collar off at night and put it back on in the morning.:)

[Daydream Believer]

Guess I am the only one that has my dogs on Comfortis now for fleas and ticks?



No I'm using it also and posted earlier. I love it!

[ponygirl]

I have never had a flea problem until this year. I use Frontline Plus and it's not working. I have 2 indoor cats that get Revolution. I was told by the vets that Revolution for dogs isn't so hot but it has to be better than Frontline Plus. Dog goes to the vet Friday so will inquire as to what to use now.

[Pony Fixer]

Just wondering if all those with products that "quit working" if you purchased through your vet or an online pharmacy. We see occasional "product failures" of one or another brand--sometimes it's human error, sometimes its high exposure (kills 99% ticks means they still get 1%--since ticks lay eggs by the thousands, one leaf can have 4000 baby ticks meaning your dog can get 40 ticks and the product is "working"). My fear is that there is counterfeit product out there. We all know this stuff is pricey and how clever it would be to make bogus product to dump into the stream, so to speak. There is less "policing" with even the reputable online pharmacies to the point where most companies will not guarantee the product unless purchased directly from a vet.

It's just a thought. Of course, I think everyone is up to no good. I have heard of no studies of documented resistance, although that does not mean it isn't happening, either. Personally, I use Advantix, but my dogs are not in high exposure areas either (mostly just my non-wooded yard).

[sheep with a gun]

Guess I am the only one that has my dogs on Comfortis now for fleas and ticks?

I did read somewhere that some of the topic stuff is not working any longer, but I can't remember where I read it.

Just a note, Comfortis [which my vet has had great success with!] ONLY works on fleas.
For clients with flea and tick problems he recommends using Comfortis and a preventic collar.

[Daydream Believer]

Just wondering if all those with products that "quit working" if you purchased through your vet or an online pharmacy.

In my case it was brandname Frontline purchased from my vet. I was told by my vet that I was not the only client reporting trouble either.

[Horsegal984]

Frontline quit working for me too, and it was bought directly through the clinic i work for! The product that starts with the V is Vectra 3D, which is what I switched to, and it has been working great. It is very much the same thing as K9 Advantix, the only difference is in the type of flea birth control.

And as somebody explained, Comfortis works probably better than anything else out there right now for fleas, but does nothing for ticks.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[Alagirl]

if so what do you use on your farm animals these days?

i heard this from a farm owner whose local small animal vet told her that the clients in the area have been complaining that frontline suddenly does nothing for fleas and ticks. they're recommending some new product starts w/ "v" and is sold only by veterinarians (???). so far i made one application of frontline this year and have not seen any fleas. ticks do attach but i think that's how it goes w/ frontline - they attach and die, right?

It seemed to be the case where I used to live, I put Frontline on, 2 weeks later the fleas were back, as bad as before. Advantix, not so much. But considering the flea reproduction cycle, it makes sense. One flea has to make it, and you got monster fleas on your hand inno time!

[asanders]

I have heard of no studies of documented resistance

That is what I thought, and wrote as much in another thread, but since anecdotal pressure was mounting, I did an actual literature search, and in fact resistance has been documented, and a gene mutation identified.

The first real paper was from 2000 in Veterinary Parasitology. In one of the three strains they tested, they found reduced efficacy, however they concluded that it was unclear whether the reduction was enough to be noticable in regular product use.

Then in 2004, a specific mutation was identified (published in Pesticide Biochemistry and Physiology)

It sounds as though this mutation would be widespread in some areas, but certainly not "all fleas everywhere"

There is also a lot of 'junk paper' out there which basically rehashes anecdotal reports and speculation without any real science, so always consider the source.

Of course, I think some end use problems are the result of changes in season, weather, animal care etc. which lead to either an sharp increase in the base population, or reduced concentration of product on the animal.

But at the end of the day, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and if it don't work, try somthin' else.

Knock wood, I've been using Frontline for years in MD and FL and have had no problems.

[Alagirl]

and I guess now ia as good a time as any to ask this question:

Would you consider switching anti flea meds like you woul wormers? :confused:

[Pony Fixer]

Then in 2004, a specific mutation was identified (published in Pesticide Biochemistry and Physiology)


Oh, I haven't gotten to that journal yet....hahahah. You would think that would have been picked up on by one of the MANY vet journals I do get and read!

Was the mutation for resistance to Frontline (fipronil) or Advantix (uh, forget active ingredient, too lazy to look on the box)?

It's bound to happen (resistance), although I think most "product failures" are not due to this. Just sayin....

[magnolia73]

Just wondering if all those with products that "quit working" if you purchased through your vet or an online pharmacy.

Yup- I have wondered that. For a while, I bought Frontline at Pet Mart - and it never seemed to work. Then I started buying from the Vet and it worked. I think it may have to do with the age of the product etc.?

We switch it up- this year, the cats look great, but the dog is itchy- though no fleas.

[LauraAU]

We use Comfortis for fleas, and still use Frontline for ticks. Frontline still seems to take care of ticks, but definitely didn't take care of fleas last year, and that's why we started using Comfortis. The combination seems to work well.

[asanders]

Oh, I haven't gotten to that journal yet....hahahah. You would think that would have been picked up on by one of the MANY vet journals I do get and read!

Was the mutation for resistance to Frontline (fipronil) or Advantix (uh, forget active ingredient, too lazy to look on the box)?

It's bound to happen (resistance), although I think most "product failures" are not due to this. Just sayin....

reference was to fipronil. I think I read a related marker is seen in cockroaches also (fipronil is apparently used in roach baits)

It was an interesting article as it discussed the implications of potentially testing suspect wild populations for resistance to inform the decision of what product to treat with, dependent on the cost of genetic testing continuing to fall. I suspect that within 5-10 years someone will figure out the niche x pricepoint application and someone (maybe pest contol companies, or large animal facilities) will have access to a commercial test. I guess it also depends on what alternatives the test result suggests, and whether comparable resistance information is available about them.

[<3OTTB]

My dog got fleas when on Frontline. I never skipped an application because of the high tick population where I live. My vet had me switch to K-9 Advantix which he said was better.

EDIT: Frontline Plus

[Amwrider]

You can't use Advantix on your dogs if you have cats, right?

I am using Frontline plus and it is not working as well as in the past. Anyone have any success with Bio-Spot?

[wendy]

I've heard that Bio-Spot causes severe reactions in many dogs

[Pony Fixer]

Advantix is fine in households with cats as long at the cat isn't licking the dog where it is applied. It may not be applied to cats, obviously. I have a cat and have used Advntix exclusively for years.

The FDA is currently doing some research about reactions to topical flea products. The major ones were included, as well as Hartz, BioSpot, etc. I have seen reactions to the meds (usually a direct skin issue), but it is usually more the pet than the product (ie, some pets seem more sensitive to ANYTHING). Hopefully this will result in stricter regulation of the uh, less effective brands (Hartz, et al) since this stuff seems to be the biggest offenders IMO, and also doesn't seem to actually work (and if you want to see a really sick dog or cat, let them get some of that stuff in their mouth--hello, neurologic issues!!) The FDA is NOT researching effectiveness.

I can't remember his name, but there is a vet "tick guru" who studied Frontline P and Advantix head-to-head using dogs walked through heavily infested areas (yikes, I'd hate to be a peon dog walker in that study!). He found Advantix more effective. However, in a talk I heard him give, he was the one that showed a photo of a leaf with tens of 1000s of tick nymphs and gave the statistic that if the product was 99% effective, you could expect dozens of ticks. That has always stuck with me, as none of these products claim 100% effectiveness, and you only need a few to become an infestation quickly!

In our practice, when folks have had issue with recurrent flea/tick problems, we recommend (in addition to environmental treatment if possible) to alternate FrontlineP and Advantix at 3 week intervals during peak season. I have not had any complaints from clients on this regimen. FWIW, I have found 4 ticks now on my daughter, two on me, one on the hubs, but none on my dogs! I think this year is gonna be bad--I don't usually see that many on the humans until later in the "heat" seasons!!

[wendy]

finding ticks on dogs treated with frontline doesn't mean it's not working. The product doesn't repel ticks, it just kills them after they bite on. So you may well find ticks strolling around on your dog, or be attached but dying.

[drmgncolor]

I've been using Promeris for about a year and have had really good luck with it. I only apply it every 8 weeks too.

And I am very allergic to fleas. I know if there is even 1 in the house... they will (no kidding) jump OFF the dog and ON to me. I must taste great to fleas. :(

A

[IFG]

For now, I will stick to the Frontline Plus with Advantix when needed in rotation. There have been reports that Promeris is a problem. Even snopes did not see these reports as unjustified:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/promeris.asp

[drmgncolor]

Yep, I heard those reports too, but like I said... I haven't had any issues. Probably an allergy. I'm sure there are dogs/cats out there allergic to Frontline/Advantage as well.

[Horsegal984]

The biggest problem with Promeris that we have had so far is clinets complaining about the smell!

To whoever asked about Biosh!t and Hurtz and all those other types of products, one they don't work, and two they are WAAAAY more of a risk to all of your animals than anything you get from your vet. Everybody I know in the veterinary community is thrilled that the EPA is finally getting involved and doing something to investigate the number of pet deaths in direct relation to the product.
If you've ever seen an animal reacting to this, it's somethign you'll never forget. And something interesting I've learned as a result is that owners are more likely to spend outside of their budget to save their animals when they view it as their fault. I've seen people who have come in saying they aren't gonna spend a dime on that 'damn cat' drop big $$$ when the 'illness' is explained to them as really a reaction to them trying to save a few dollars by using a product labeled as safe.
There's not much I wouldn't give to know that I'll never spend another 12hour ICU shift sitting next to a cat who has to be kept in a medically induced coma to avoid him having more uncontrollable seizures.

Almost any product you use has some risk of side effects, and believe me even working in the field I know how important it is to save money where you can. Buying Frontline and havign your vet show you how to divide the tube for multiple animals is a good, SAFE way. But that spot on SH!T that hartz and sargents and bio-spot and all the other ones make..... never never never worth it. Don't even work, which makes it even more not worth the risk!

::: Stepping off my soapbox now:::

Katherine
Vet Tech

[marta]

3 pages of posts and i thought it was just some local gossip i heard;)

[drmgncolor]

The biggest problem with Promeris that we have had so far is clinets complaining about the smell!

Yeah it is a little strong, but once it dries it goes away. I don't like the white goop though. But honestly, it works for like 8 weeks!

[Iluvgoldies]

Revolution as a product does not kill or prevent ticks very well at all. It dont even think its on the main label.

If you are using Revolution, then you have to use something else (preventic collar, frontline) for the ticks. Pfizer even recommends this. Some places even give free preventic collars when Revolution is purchased for this reason.

[SSS4]

Happened last summer to us in NY..I had fleas everywhere and all my dogs had frontline on them. Vet switched us to comfortis, within minutes fleas were falling off dead, have not seen one since then! Much easier than frontline too, just give them the pill in their food...don't have to worry about swimming, baths etc.

[sidepasser]

Has anyone used Adam's flea and tick control spot on?

I have it on one of my farm dogs now and he is the only one not scratching. The other two are wearing Frontline Plus and both are scratching. All got doses same day after their "flea" bath.

[Jumperprincess]

I think I live in the tick capital of America, I use Advantix and have never had an issue -well, for the dog that is. I have picked ticks off myself but my dog has been tick-free!!