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janedoe726
May. 9, 2009, 10:49 AM
I've been wanting to post for a few days, but a but afraid to on this board. Before I get to my question, please let me preface it with several points:

1. I am neither for nor against a kimberwicke. I am just looking for information.
2. Currently I don't even ride. I am just looking for information.
3. I haven't ridden in a kimberwicke since I was a kid doing open shows and didn't know any different (20+ years ago).

So on to my question-

I know there are no "illegal" bits in the hunters, but I also know that if you show up at a hunter show in a kimberwicke, you're not taking home any prizes. What I want to know is what is so bad about them? Why are they so frowned upon? I just got the SmartPak supplement catalog this week and noticed that the (incredible) jumper on the cover was wearing one. That made me think. My understanding (and I could be way wrong here...) is that the function is similar to a pelham with converters, which are perfectly fine in the hunter ring. Why are we so anti-kimberwicke?

BearWithMe
May. 9, 2009, 11:26 AM
From what i have seen, converters are not used except for very small children, leadline and walk trot stuff, and even then they are not very common.
In the hunters a horse is supposed to be easygoing and relaxed like you would want a field hunter to be but using a kinberwick shows that he has a hard mouth and is probably a little stubborn.
As far as kimberwicks go, your better of learning how to ride with 2 sets of reins and using a pelham without a converter if you absolutely need a bit with leverage.

Little Valkyrie
May. 9, 2009, 01:12 PM
I completely agree with everything BearWithMe said, use the two reins on the pelham if you need the leverage. Also, a pelham is slightly more "traditional" in the hunt field, so that could be a carry-over. I'm also not a fan of the kimberwickes because it is kind of like driving with the parking break on, nothing soft to use, only the stop.

ef80
May. 9, 2009, 03:03 PM
My understanding (and I could be way wrong here...) is that the function is similar to a pelham with converters, which are perfectly fine in the hunter ring. Why are we so anti-kimberwicke?

Converters are just as frowned on in the Hunter ring as a kimberwicke is. A converter or kimberwicke makes the statement that the rider doesn't have the education to use leverage properly. If you can't handle two reins, you shouldn't be using a bit with curb action. A kimberwicke/converter also implies that the horse NEEDS the constant reminder from the curb and therefore is a bit ranker than you want a Hunter to be.

A kimberwicke is not a precision tool. It is somewhat like using a butcher's knife to do complicated surgery.

MissIndependence
May. 9, 2009, 05:07 PM
I find everyone's freak outs to Kimberwickes a little amusing. I just bought a horse that LOVES to go in a kimberwicke. I have not ridden a horse in one since pony club (actually it was a pony). I laughed when I saw it, but the previous owner and BNT trainer who worked with the horse said "hey, he likes it - so if it ain't broke - don't fix it".

I am sure I will experiment with bits and see if the horse likes something else - but for the time being I have no issue riding him in it. I have VERY educated hands, I am an advanced rider and I can stay out of my horse's mouth. Hence....no big deal.

Now....I get the issue when you see a person who is not good with their hands sawing on a poor horse's mouth. I can guarantee you that some of the bits out there can be just as severe as a kimberwicke in the wrong hands! IMO - it's not the bit - it's the skill and precision of the rider using the bit - and the horse's particular taste and "like" for whatever bit. Most horses will let you know very quickly if they don't care for the bit in their mouths.

mrsbradbury
May. 9, 2009, 08:56 PM
I think the biggest turn-off of the kimberwicke is that they're unforgiving.

I am not up on all the different ones, but what comes to mind is a ported mouth, with a curb chain, and one rein. Matched up with quick ponies and little kids. The bit is not flattering to the horses head. The entire bit is "fixed", in such way that if the horse attempts to soften, it can never find relief.

I wouldn't say you wouldn't get a ribbon if you showed up with a kimberwicke, but I think there are other options; and frankly, I don't fully understand the mechanics behind that bit.

(and I LOVE bits!!):yes:

janedoe726
May. 10, 2009, 02:57 AM
I find everyone's freak outs to Kimberwickes a little amusing. I just bought a horse that LOVES to go in a kimberwicke. I have not ridden a horse in one since pony club (actually it was a pony). I laughed when I saw it, but the previous owner and BNT trainer who worked with the horse said "hey, he likes it - so if it ain't broke - don't fix it".

I am sure I will experiment with bits and see if the horse likes something else - but for the time being I have no issue riding him in it. I have VERY educated hands, I am an advanced rider and I can stay out of my horse's mouth. Hence....no big deal.

Now....I get the issue when you see a person who is not good with their hands sawing on a poor horse's mouth. I can guarantee you that some of the bits out there can be just as severe as a kimberwicke in the wrong hands! IMO - it's not the bit - it's the skill and precision of the rider using the bit - and the horse's particular taste and "like" for whatever bit. Most horses will let you know very quickly if they don't care for the bit in their mouths.

I totally agree- especially with the last part.

Thanks, everyone for the input. Again, I'm not looking into using one, just curious as to why they're so terrible! And I agree they should not be used in the wrong hands...

goeslikestink
May. 10, 2009, 03:55 AM
I think the biggest turn-off of the kimberwicke is that they're unforgiving.

I am not up on all the different ones, but what comes to mind is a ported mouth, with a curb chain, and one rein. Matched up with quick ponies and little kids. The bit is not flattering to the horses head. The entire bit is "fixed", in such way that if the horse attempts to soften, it can never find relief.

I wouldn't say you wouldn't get a ribbon if you showed up with a kimberwicke, but I think there are other options; and frankly, I don't fully understand the mechanics behind that bit.

(and I LOVE bits!!):yes:

disagree and folks its kimblewick there no e afterwards

bits are as only servere as your hands that use them

op- please read my sitcky of helpful links and pay perticular attention to the 2 3 and 4th links on 1st page

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=178116

enjoytheride
May. 10, 2009, 04:25 AM
I think the reason so many horses go well in a kimberwicke is because of the leverage, riders assume the horse likes the bit because he sets his head in it. Setting the head behind the bit is different then carrying the bit and taking contact. Western people use a kimberwicke because it has the curb chain and is closer to the curb bit then a snaffle, and they are relying on the leverage as well. I see lots of ponies matched up in kimberwickes but I don't think most of their riders have the hands that go with it.

To most people the kimberwicke says one of two (or perhaps both) things: 1. horse/pony that can't be stopped 2. Winglish people that are pretending to go english.

Silk
May. 10, 2009, 12:46 PM
] Winglish people that are pretending to go english.


LOL!!! I see a lot of the QH people doing the versatility and/or the open classes dressed hunt seat using the kimberwick.

Thomas_1
May. 10, 2009, 12:57 PM
I know there are no "illegal" bits in the hunters, but I also know that if you show up at a hunter show in a kimberwicke, you're not taking home any prizes. What I want to know is what is so bad about them? Why are they so frowned upon? Why are we so anti-kimberwicke?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a KimbLEwick bit at all. Kimblewicks are traditional English hunting bits originally from the English town of KimbLEwick near Uttoxeter . Seems though they were first taken over to the USA by someone with a speach imediment. What a thilly bunt :winkgrin:

I use them quite a lot with ponies and hunters.

As with all bits, the action of the Kimblewick is dependent upon the position of the riders hands.

Kimblewicks act as a mild, short shanked pelham with some leverage which acts on the curb and poll. The slotted ones have more leverage, more like a pelham than the unslotted ones. Mine tend to be all D ring ported and if they are Uttoxeters slotted then I use them with the reins through the D rings.

For Mrsbradburty who didn't understand the mechanics: Its action is the same as that of other pelhams, but because its shorter in its cheeks and by its shape it the rein to slip to the bottom of the cheeks and so the rein slides on the d ring. If the hands are lowered prior to pressure being applied to the reins, the rein will slide about an inch and the bit will assume about a 45 degree angle in the mouth, thus giving more poll and curb pressure. This causes the mouthpiece to act in a downward and backward motion on the lower jaw. This is complemented by the downward pressure on the poll, giving the bit a lowering action. And when the rein is used, the curb chain does come into play, but it shouldn't straight away, there should be some give in the rein before the curb chain tightens.

Nikki17
May. 10, 2009, 02:21 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a KimbLEwick bit at all. Kimblewicks are traditional English hunting bits originally from the English town of KimbLEwick near Uttoxeter . Seems though they were first taken over to the USA by someone with a speach imediment. What a thilly bunt :winkgrin:

I use them quite a lot with ponies and hunters.

As with all bits, the action of the Kimblewick is dependent upon the position of the riders hands.

Kimblewicks act as a mild, short shanked pelham with some leverage which acts on the curb and poll. The slotted ones have more leverage, more like a pelham than the unslotted ones. Mine tend to be all D ring ported and if they are Uttoxeters slotted then I use them with the reins through the D rings.

For Mrsbradburty who didn't understand the mechanics: Its action is the same as that of other pelhams, but because its shorter in its cheeks and by its shape it the rein to slip to the bottom of the cheeks and so the rein slides on the d ring. If the hands are lowered prior to pressure being applied to the reins, the rein will slide about an inch and the bit will assume about a 45 degree angle in the mouth, thus giving more poll and curb pressure. This causes the mouthpiece to act in a downward and backward motion on the lower jaw. This is complemented by the downward pressure on the poll, giving the bit a lowering action. And when the rein is used, the curb chain does come into play, but it shouldn't straight away, there should be some give in the rein before the curb chain tightens.

The Kimberwick (Kimblewick in the UK) bit is a form of Pelham. Actually either pronunciation/spelling is correct.

mrsbradbury
May. 10, 2009, 09:59 PM
For Mrsbradburty who didn't understand the mechanics: Its action is the same as that of other pelhams, but because its shorter in its cheeks and by its shape it the rein to slip to the bottom of the cheeks and so the rein slides on the d ring. If the hands are lowered prior to pressure being applied to the reins, the rein will slide about an inch and the bit will assume about a 45 degree angle in the mouth, thus giving more poll and curb pressure. This causes the mouthpiece to act in a downward and backward motion on the lower jaw. This is complemented by the downward pressure on the poll, giving the bit a lowering action. And when the rein is used, the curb chain does come into play, but it shouldn't straight away, there should be some give in the rein before the curb chain tightens.

Thank you very much for this explantion, I never thought of it as a "pelham variation"; I use a broken pelham quite a bit in my program.

Thomas_1
May. 11, 2009, 04:49 AM
The Kimberwick (Kimblewick in the UK) bit is a form of Pelham. Actually either pronunciation/spelling is correct. Yep that's right in America only.

In America it's totally logical that it's correct that it's the Kimberwick bit which is a traditional English Hunting bit named after the village of KimbLEwick in England. :sadsmile: :winkgrin:

ILuvmyButtercups
May. 11, 2009, 05:44 AM
which ever, just like any other bit, some horses just go better and prefer a certain bit.

I have a hard headed, crafty old former Arabian endurance horse, who can become almost impossibly strong at the gallop. His neck is thick, hard and cresty, even after being on Quiessence and lite feed for over a year. I used to gallop race horses, hundreds of them in my day, and this Arab is every bit as strong as the toughest TBs when in the field racing along side others.

I've tried every bit out there - all the snaffles, gag bits, full bridles, pelhams with two reins, long shanks, short shanks, hackamores short and long, leather chin straps, chain. After slamming into the rear end of a field master's horse one day, I was determined to find SOMETHING that would work to slow or stop this otherwise super horse/turned great hunter.

Enter the Kimberwicke/Kimblewick! An Uxeter one, with leather chin strap, the rein on the bottom slot. My horse goes fantastic now, comes up to the bit confindently, gives at the slightest touch, and best of all, on those gallops he's remains in the hand, fluidly attentive, neither behind or over the bit. Best of all, I can easily stop him, no fuss, no muss. I don't care if the bit is unfashionable or has a tainted image ~ I want us, and anyone else with us to be safe! That's all that matters. I wouldn't show him in a Kimblewick, what would be the point anyway? Judges won't pin Arabs in hunter regardless; not if we're up against TBs and Warmbloods in the same division. :(