Yucca legality

[Ritazza]

Is yucca legal for the USEA? Barn manager swears up and down that it's illegal and had me pull my horse off her joint supplement this week. I really don't want to be doing that regularly!

Also, somebody mentioned tryptophan as being illegal, but I highly doubt that. Anyone know?

[deltawave]

The SPIRIT of the rules is that no substance that could potentially affect performance or behavior is allowed. That's a different question, though, than "will this substance test?". Tryptophan probably won't, but I'm not sure about yucca, but see below. The USEF has a "drugs and medication" email hotline (on the USEF website) that is very good at responding to questions quickly, IME. I would go there for a definitive answer, not here. :)

[wishnwell]

I am a supplement idiot to a degree. I did go and took a look at the Drug list from '07 ( not sure if there is a more updated one but that's what I found ) and didn't see Yucca. Unless it can be called something else. I too would like to know since my horse gets this.

[yellowbritches]

dw is right. There is a section in the drugs and med booklet (which I suggest everyone picks up if they will be competing in USEF recognized shows) regarding herbs and "holistic" type things. The basic gist of it is that if it alters or enhances a horse's way of going, it shouldn't be used (whether it tests or not). It also says something along the line that one should be careful using them, as there is little research to go along with them.

Yucca supposedly has an anti inflammatory property, so it would act like bute or banamine (neither of which are illegal in and of themselves, but they do have to be used in the correct amounts at the correct times and NEVER together before a show). Using something with yucca in it on a daily basis, in the most technical way of speaking, would be like using bute or banamine every day.

I suggest two things:
Call or email the USEF drugs and meds hotline (they are great and very helpful)
Consider a different joint supplement WITHOUT yucca, such as Cosequin or Corta Flex (my two faves).

[Hilary]

But MSM has anti-inflammatory properties and that's legal.....

I completely understand the intent of the rule but I keep finding situations that fly in the face of it and are considered OK - msm, magnesium, regumate.... all these things are used to make the horse more comfortable and rideable, but they are legal.

Bute and Banamine and Valerian have been named as illegal substances. As far as I know, yucca is not on that list. Except that small amounts of bute and banamine are OK at a non-FEI horse trial. But not both together -so again, ambiguity. A little is fine, a lot is not.

[deltawave]

I agree that it's very ambiguous, but in the case of yucca and plant-based/herbal products, you are dealing with the potential for HUGE variability in whatever the "active ingredient" might be (and the possbility that there are more "active ingredients" than we actually know about). Whereas with something like a B-vitamin, MSM or magnesium you are dealing with a more or less singular substance that could be considered more or less pure/predictable in its content.

[yellowbritches]

I agree that it's very ambiguous, but in the case of yucca and plant-based/herbal products, you are dealing with the potential for HUGE variability in whatever the "active ingredient" might be (and the possbility that there are more "active ingredients" than we actually know about). Whereas with something like a B-vitamin, MSM or magnesium you are dealing with a more or less singular substance that could be considered more or less pure/predictable in its content.
Agreed.

Also, bute and banamine are only illegal if used in the wrong amounts or at the wrong time. You can't use them together within a certain period of time, and you can only use them separately in certain amounts within a certain time frame. 1 gram of bute 12 hours prior to competition is far more predictable (in how it works and how it tests) than an uncertain amount of yucca (or whatever) in a nutracutical.

[Bobthehorse]

MSM and Flax have anti-inflammatory properties, but that doesnt mean they are comparable to bute or banamine. Thats like comparing a slice of bread to a glass of metamucil, isnt it?

[SevenDogs]

Agreed.

Also, bute and banamine are only illegal if used in the wrong amounts or at the wrong time. You can't use them together within a certain period of time, and you can only use them separately in certain amounts within a certain time frame. 1 gram of bute 12 hours prior to competition is far more predictable (in how it works and how it tests) than an uncertain amount of
yucca (or whatever) in a nutracutical.


Having worked directly with USEF hotline (and yes, they are very helpful), 1 gram of bute 12 hours prior to competition is generally considered within the legal limits, but they can not guarantee it because horses metabolize bute differently and the horse's size, etc can affect it's concentration at the time of testing. But I do agree that it is probably much more predictable than other supplements.

One big of caution: You must declare AHEAD of time that you have given bute and that it has been given for therapeutic reasons (forms available online or at the show office). It is my understanding that if they find ANY bute in the horses system (below the legal limit or not) and you have not declared it, you will be penalized.

[yellowbritches]

Having worked directly with USEF hotline (and yes, they are very helpful), 1 gram of bute 12 hours prior to competition is generally considered within the legal limits, but they can not guarantee it because horses metabolize bute differently and the horse's size, etc can affect it's concentration at the time of testing. But I do agree that it is probably much more predictable than other supplements.

One big of caution: You must declare AHEAD of time that you have given bute and that it has been given for therapeutic reasons (forms available online or at the show office). It is my understanding that if they find ANY bute in the horses system (below the legal limit or not) and you have not declared it, you will be penalized.
Yes, thanks for clarifying. I was speaking in very general terms (I was in a hurry and about to walk out the door).

Thanks for the heads up on the declaration form, as well. I did not know that.

[LexInVA]

Ruh-roh! Better no do that!

[SevenDogs]

Thanks for the heads up on the declaration form, as well. I did not know that.

I almost learned the hard way! I thought I was doing great by checking with USEF, etc., when someone pointed out the declaration requirement AFTER I had given the bute to my older horse. :eek:

I always try to tell others about the form because it is easy to forget and we don't want to be published in the USEF magazine hearings section. :no:

[deltawave]

Yes, it's important not to think "giving no more than one gram of bute 12 hours before I compete is OK" because what is actually meant is "most horses, when given one gram of bute 12 hours before they're tested, will have a blood level that's under the legal limit". That's a big difference. :)

[SevenDogs]

Yes, it's important not to think "giving no more than one gram of bute 12 hours before I compete is OK" because what is actually meant is "most horses, when given one gram of bute 12 hours before they're tested, will have a blood level that's under the legal limit". That's a big difference. :)

Thanks Deltawave, for phrasing it exactly right. Although the USEF hotline and the literature is very helpful, they will NOT tell you that it is OK to give 1 gram of Bute 12 hours prior. They will tell you exactly what Deltawave says above. There is no real way to know how your specific horse will react.

I know that anytime I use Bute at a show (even within these guidelines and filing the appropriate declaration form), I am risking testing positive above the legal limit and the possibility of penalties. I don't use it very often, but when I do I am assuming that risk.

[poopoo]

And one gram doesn't do sh%t as it is only 50% of the therapeutic dosage anyway.

[ne900]

And one gram doesn't do sh%t as it is only 50% of the therapeutic dosage anyway.

I have to disagree with you here- we have had horses show improvement on 1/2 gram 2x per day. (Note: I am talking specifically about horses that were laid up with injuries, I am not talking about using bute before or during a competition.)

[Bobthehorse]

Kind of like taking one advil instead of two.