Video of Curlin's Full Brother

[Cammie]

This was on Bloodhorse this morning-

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/50677/full-brother-to-curlin-is-foaled-with-video

Anyone know why the foal is on a nurse mare? I looked for info on the dam, Sheriff's Deputy, but didn't see any news about her.

[Marney]

How cute is that and look at those legs!!

[Evalee Hunter]

This was on Bloodhorse this morning-

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/50677/full-brother-to-curlin-is-foaled-with-video

Anyone know why the foal is on a nurse mare? I looked for info on the dam, Sheriff's Deputy, but didn't see any news about her.

I do NOT know ... but I can make a possible speculation ... some farms prefer to put the foal on a nurse mare if they are sending the dam a long ways to be re-bred. Remember, TBs require live cover & mares are shipped all over the world to meet their appropriate intendeds.

[DLee]

I believe his dam has a bad front leg, and it might just be too much.

[ravenclaw]

some farms prefer to put the foal on a nurse mare if they are sending the dam a long ways to be re-bred. Remember, TBs require live cover & mares are shipped all over the world to meet their appropriate intendeds.
I have wondered about this before. If a mare lives in Florida (for example) and she has a foal and they want to breed her to a Kentucky stallion, would they ship the foal with the mare to Kentucky? Or would the foal stay behind? If the foal stays behind and is put with a nurse mare, does it stay with the nurse mare until it is weaned?

[Las Olas]

Yes, the foal almost always goes with the mare. Keep in mind that putting a foal on a nurse mare is dangerous itself. I used to book mares for a large farm in Lexington (14 stallions) and we would have people bring mares from all over the country. Most would bring the mare and foal in and we would help arrange for them to drop the foal off at another farm and rest the mare before the return trip. I have never heard of anyone putting a foal on a nurse mare just so it doesn't have to make the trip. IMO it would be a silly thing to do, unless there are other circumstances involved, such as an injury, as DLee suggested.

And, yes, once a foal is put on a nursemare, it will stay there until weaned, as the birth mare's milk will dry up.

[Evalee Hunter]

. . . . I have never heard of anyone putting a foal on a nurse mare just so it doesn't have to make the trip. . . .

Well, I have personally seen/known of foals put on nurse mares so as not to travel with the dam who is going to be re-bred. It may be unusual or rare but I have known of a couple of cases. While putting a foal on a nursemare certainly has potential dangers, so does a foal traveling & being exposed to potential illnesses.

[Las Olas]

Well, I have personally seen/known of foals put on nurse mares so as not to travel with the dam who is going to be re-bred. It may be unusual or rare but I have known of a couple of cases. While putting a foal on a nursemare certainly has potential dangers, so does a foal traveling & being exposed to potential illnesses.

Well, I'm not sure where you saw this, you said at 'some farms' but now you are saying 'it may be unusual or rare', but it certainly isn't a smart thing to do. Especially considering that there shouldn't be a problem with exposure to the foals, as they are under colostral immunity (assuming correct vaccination protocol in the mare) at that point. You would be exposing the dams. So, where did the nurse mares come from? Are you saying that the farms that do this keep their own nurse mares, which one would assume live in the same fields as the birth mares? Otherwise, wouldn't the danger from exposure to the nurse mares be just as great as trailering? To me, that doesn't make sense.

[keepthelegend]

It's actually the norm at some farms to put all foals on a nurse mare especially out of the valuable mares. A farm with probably the best broodmare band in KY take everything right off the mare at birth and onto a nurse mare. I always found it sad.

[Evalee Hunter]

It's actually the norm at some farms to put all foals on a nurse mare especially out of the valuable mares. A farm with probably the best broodmare band in KY take everything right off the mare at birth and onto a nurse mare. I always found it sad.

Thank you, keepthelegend. Glad someone can corroborate my experience. There are all kinds of ways of doing things in the horse world.

[Las Olas]

It's actually the norm at some farms to put all foals on a nurse mare especially out of the valuable mares. A farm with probably the best broodmare band in KY take everything right off the mare at birth and onto a nurse mare. I always found it sad.

And do you care to name such farms? I've worked for Claiborne, Denali, etc. Dated the stallion manager at Airdrie, is friends with the managers at Gainesway, Hill N Dale, Lane's End, Stonewall, Crestwood, Brookdale, Juddmonte, Stonestreet, Darley/Shadwell, etc. and a long time member of the KTFMC. None of them would THINK of doing such a thing unless the mare's health is in question. So, please, enlighten me as to which farms practice this and which valuble mares you are speaking of. I'd love to know! Thx!

[Lamma70]

So if these farms are using nurse mares, are they still getting rid of the nurse mare foals? I didn't think that was happening as much anymore.

[tradewind]

I have heard, but can not verify from personal experience that the dam of the foal is quite compromised leg wise, and can not go out with a band of broodmares so her foals go to a nurse mare so they (the foals) can go out with the group and grow up normally with other foals.

[Las Olas]

So if these farms are using nurse mares, are they still getting rid of the nurse mare foals? I didn't think that was happening as much anymore.

You're right, it's not. I'm not sure what farms Evalee Hunter and Keepthelegend are referring too, as they haven't posted back yet, but in my experience, nurse mares are rarely used and usually only if the is a health issue with the mare and/or foal. For instance, some farms will use a nurse mare in place of an older mare that really loses condition after foaling, a laminitic mare, if a mare dies, doesn't produce enough milk, colics, etc. I only know of two active nurse mare suppliers in the Lexington area anymore, although there may be a few smaller ones. When I was at Claiborne, I believe we had roughly 280 mares and I don't recall ever having more than 5 or 6 nurse mares in a year. At denali, we would have years where we wouldn't use any.

[LaurieB]

And do you care to name such farms? I've worked for Claiborne, Denali, etc. Dated the stallion manager at Airdrie, is friends with the managers at Gainesway, Hill N Dale, Lane's End, Stonewall, Crestwood, Brookdale, Juddmonte, Stonestreet, Darley/Shadwell, etc. and a long time member of the KTFMC. None of them would THINK of doing such an idiotic thing unless the mare's health is in question. So, please, enlighten me as to which farms practice this and which valuble mares you are speaking of. I'd love to know! Thx!

I'm with Las Olas--well actually I don't have her extensive dating experience ;) but I'm pretty well acquainted with most of the big farms in Kentucky and I've never heard of any that "take everything right off the mare at birth and onto a nurse mare."

Keepthelegend, I would also be curious to hear which farm considers that to be their normal practise.

[Las Olas]

I'm with Las Olas--well actually I don't have her extensive dating experience ;) but I'm pretty well acquainted with most of the big farms in Kentucky and I've never heard of any that "take everything right off the mare at birth and onto a nurse mare."

Keepthelegend, I would also be curious to hear which farm considers that to be their normal practise.

What!? Of course you do, you and Mr. B met every one of my dates. Who else was going to keep me from the riff raff and save me from myself ;)

Practise = Practice??? You know I had to point that one out. LOL!

[mintano]

If you look closely at Sheriffs Deputy in the video her left front looks very awful and she seems to have a hard time moving around.

[keepthelegend]

Creekview Farm, a division of Ashford with an outstanding broodmare band (Sky Beauty, Mariah's Storm, Sacahuista, Trolley Song, Circle of Life, etc)takes just about everything off the mare right after birth and onto a nurse mare. Overbrook also uses draft horse mares quite a bit.

[Las Olas]

Creekview Farm, a division of Ashford with an outstanding broodmare band (Sky Beauty, Mariah's Storm, Sacahuista, Trolley Song, Circle of Life, etc)takes just about everything off the mare right after birth and onto a nurse mare. Overbrook also uses draft horse mares quite a bit.

Interesting, but the broodmare band you mentioned doesn't exist (?). Sky Beauty is dead, Mariah's Storm is in Ireland, Trolley Song is in her mid 20's if she's still alive, and Sacahuista is in her mid 20s. So, yes, the old mares would obviously have nurse mares, as I mentioned above. Circle of Life is in her late teens, but I thought she had some foot trouble up front, which would explain the nurse mare. Also, I have been to Coolmore's Lyonstown Stud in Ireland several times and have not seen foals pulled off and put on nurse mares. I wonder if they pulled Rags To Riches' foal off of her and put it on a nurse mare? Regardless, I can assure you, this is not common practice anywhere in Kentucky. It's generally only used with high risk mares (like the ones you named, that aren't dead).

[keepthelegend]

I can assure you all those mares were there in 2001 when I spent quite a bit of time at the farm and I was only throwing a few names out there as examples anyway. It was not just those mares using nurse mares either.

[Las Olas]

It's actually the norm at some farms to put all foals on a nurse mare especially out of the valuable mares. A farm with probably the best broodmare band in KY take everything right off the mare at birth and onto a nurse mare. I always found it sad.


Well, ok, but this is what you said, so I was assuming we were talking real time, not 8 years ago. And, also, this is not the norm at 'some' farms. You only listed one farm (I know Overbrook doesn't pull everything off the mares). One farm with some nice old mares that they are trying to eek out another year of production from does not make this a normal practice.

The reason I am being a PITA about this is because I certainly don't want anyone thinking that they should pull the foals off their mares because 'all of the big farms do it' when they certainly don't. It sends a poor message to fringe racing folks that read this board and think we are tearing foals away from their dams and dumping GOK's how many nurse mare foals into the pipeline when that's not the case.

[keepthelegend]

Sorry, I should have left out names of past broodmares but I did not think it was relevant as they were high profile mares using nurse mares at that farm. Young mares also used them not just older ones...like I said it was standard procedure. We had a few mares at overbrook and while nurse mares were not as prevelant they were still used quite a bit. Honestly there are a few other farms out there but I don't think I need to name anymore.

[Cammie]

Bloodhorse finally followed up to answer the question about why the foal is on a nurse mare-

"[Sherriff’s Deputy] is simply not capable of raising a foal on her own," said Shannon White with Fares Farm, which bred two-time Horse of the Year Curlin. "She has a limited range of motion because of an arthritic knee, so it is tough for her to keep up with a foal. Her milk production is also limited." White said the knee does not bother Sherriff’s Deputy during pregnancy.

So, the foal is being raised by Suzie, a registered Walking Horse and professional nurse mare. Suzie did have a foal, who is now being fed on milk replacer and who will grow up to become someone’s show horse or pet, according to White.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/market-watch/archive/2009/05/15/curlin-s-full-brother-and-his-nurse-mare-her-name-is-suzie.aspx