The Elusive Round Circle

[oldbutnotdead]

Any suggestions to help achieve a truly round circle?

[punk_pony]

Well, I can't ever find my compass, but turning a glass over and tracing it works. Oh, you meant in dressage- I can't help you there- Sorry!

[Speedy]

Any suggestions to help achieve a truly round circle?

The trick to the circle is that it's really a square with, depending on the size of the circle, a proscribed number of strides per segment.

[Maya01]

Set up pylons on a perfect circle and ride within them :D Then drill it until it is second nature to you and your horse :yes:

[oldbutnotdead]

Ah, but how do I make the perfect circle in the first place? Lunge my horse? He is much better at geometry without me on him . . . .

[retreadeventer]

I was taught this method by my first real dressage instructor - Hilda Gurney. I took a lot of lessons with HER students and they got me going in round circles by use of a sand ring newly dragged, with the quarter lines and center line raked (by me as the WS), the letters, and a few cones.
You develop the FEEL for the roundness by creating TOUCH POINTS on the four points of the 20 m circle in the dressage arena, then you add four more between those "corners". At first when you are riding it you are only looking for the cones and trying to reach them, and then, gradually, you "bow" your horse out instead of riding straight, cone to cone. This "bowing" becomes "bending" and the circle becomes a real circle.
But you have to start with the proper geometry; and need to measure your arena, and make your letters at the proper places. There is 5 meters between each quarter line, center line and quarter line - so your cones need to be on those lines at the touch points. I like to use the center letters as it's easier to set up the four touch points (the rail on either side at E and B are two of the points, then you only need 6 cones for the other touch points.) Remember it is 10m from x in either direction that your other cones go. At first, put down two, one on each side of your passing (a cone on the right stirrup and a cone on the left stirrup) so that you PASS between them to make the perfect circle. Later you can remove the inside cone once you get the feel of your track.
An easy way to do this is measure 20m on your lunge line, anchor one end under a cement block at x and take the other end in your hand and walk the outer edge of the circle, stopping to put your cones on the quarter lines and center line on either side of x. - at the end of the lunge line. These are your touch points.
Now when starting out, count your strides between each set of cones. Should be somewhere between three and six, I think, depending on your horse. (Unless you're riding a 10 hand Shetland!) Keep the stride length consistent so that the stride count is the same for each quarter of the circle.... that's when you know you are getting ROUND in your track. Always always meet your touch points because if you don't you end up making an egg or triangle to catch back up to them.
Now, to BURN that track into your brain -- Close your eyes on a quarter of the circle and count those strides. Open them, check to see if you are at the next touch point - if not, fix the circle and the stride length, then do it again. Then close your eyes for half the circle. Then for fun do one whole one without looking! That's when you know you have got the feel of the 20m circle!
Oh I have fun teaching circles and bending, there's loads of neat things to do with cones and trotting around a dressage arena.
It is WAY easier to teach it live, or see it in a diagram, or photo, than explain in print! Sorry!

[Auburn]

Retreadeventer,

Very well said!! :yes::yes::yes:

[dotneko]

I lunge my students - I attach the lunge line clip to the top
of their boots and I lunge them. I have them close their
eyes and learn the feel of the 20 m circle. No pulling on lunge
line or letting it droop.

Dot

[Ibex]

Best advice I ever got at a clinic: "ride to the outside ear". Bizarre, but it works!

[cutemudhorse]

I was taught this method by my first real dressage instructor - Hilda Gurney. I took a lot of lessons with HER students and they got me going in round circles by use of a sand ring newly dragged, with the quarter lines and center line raked (by me as the WS), the letters, and a few cones.
You develop the FEEL for the roundness by creating TOUCH POINTS on the four points of the 20 m circle in the dressage arena, then you add four more between those "corners". At first when you are riding it you are only looking for the cones and trying to reach them, and then, gradually, you "bow" your horse out instead of riding straight, cone to cone. This "bowing" becomes "bending" and the circle becomes a real circle.
But you have to start with the proper geometry; and need to measure your arena, and make your letters at the proper places. There is 5 meters between each quarter line, center line and quarter line - so your cones need to be on those lines at the touch points. I like to use the center letters as it's easier to set up the four touch points (the rail on either side at E and B are two of the points, then you only need 6 cones for the other touch points.) Remember it is 10m from x in either direction that your other cones go. At first, put down two, one on each side of your passing (a cone on the right stirrup and a cone on the left stirrup) so that you PASS between them to make the perfect circle. Later you can remove the inside cone once you get the feel of your track.
An easy way to do this is measure 20m on your lunge line, anchor one end under a cement block at x and take the other end in your hand and walk the outer edge of the circle, stopping to put your cones on the quarter lines and center line on either side of x. - at the end of the lunge line. These are your touch points.
Now when starting out, count your strides between each set of cones. Should be somewhere between three and six, I think, depending on your horse. (Unless you're riding a 10 hand Shetland!) Keep the stride length consistent so that the stride count is the same for each quarter of the circle.... that's when you know you are getting ROUND in your track. Always always meet your touch points because if you don't you end up making an egg or triangle to catch back up to them.
Now, to BURN that track into your brain -- Close your eyes on a quarter of the circle and count those strides. Open them, check to see if you are at the next touch point - if not, fix the circle and the stride length, then do it again. Then close your eyes for half the circle. Then for fun do one whole one without looking! That's when you know you have got the feel of the 20m circle!
Oh I have fun teaching circles and bending, there's loads of neat things to do with cones and trotting around a dressage arena.
It is WAY easier to teach it live, or see it in a diagram, or photo, than explain in print! Sorry!

**WOW!**

[Blugal]

In addition to retread's remarks above (although I make do with fewer cones), I like things explained visually and in very logical progression - so having it explained in math and geometry and visually (both diagram and in the ring) helped.

If you're good at geometry or math, you can figure it out (or have someone help). Draw out a diagram of the ring and fill in the letters and the measurements: The corner letters are all 6m away from the end. A 20 metre circle has a radius of 10 m. So you need to touch the side of the ring 4 metres past the corner letters (H, K, M, F). In a 20 x 40 of course the centre-line touch point is at X.

In a 20x60 it's a bit more complicated, but still do-able. The measurements along the long side are: 6 metres from the end to M, 12 metres from M to R, 12 metres from R to B. (Rinse and repeat for the rest of the ring.) [If this is confusing, basically half-way is 30 metres, and you know it's 6 metres to M, and the other two letters are equi-distant, so subtract 6 from 30, you get 24, divide by 2, left with 12 metres.]

So a 20 metre circle starting at C will need to hit the centre line 2 metres past the R-S line (6+12+2 = 20 metres).

A 20 m circle starting at E or B will have touch points on centre line at the same place as the above circle from C: 2 metres inside the R-S line and 2 metres inside the P-V line. (Draw three 20 metre circles in your diagram. They fit the entire ring, with tops/bottoms touching.) Now your 3-loop serpentines are also all set.

The one thing I hate figuring out is 5-loop serpentines in a 20x60!!!

[whoacorwin]

Well crap...I thought when on my tests it said circles not...and they drew a round circle it meant they did not have time to finish the happy face to let me know how much they liked my circle...ha ha!

[Carol Ames]

Once again; I crafted proofed and edited:winkgrin: a reply, only to lose it before posting:mad:; I will try again the AM; I am too uncomfortable and disgusted to deal with it now!:mad:

[oldbutnotdead]

Please keep the suggestions coming! Hmm, punk_pony, maybe the key would be to drink the liquid in the glass, turn it over, trace a circle, and then ride!

[LR1976]

Well crap...I thought when on my tests it said circles not...and they drew a round circle it meant they did not have time to finish the happy face to let me know how much they liked my circle...ha ha!


So that's not what that means???:(