Rules Question - Elimination for illegal equipment

[BlueRidgeEventer]

I'm wondering at what point in a ride can/should a rider be eliminated for using illegal equipment. Thanks for your help with this. I'm working to make sure that some shows that I am associated with running are following correct procedural rules.

For example, a horse enters the ring wearing polo wraps or boots of some kind. When should the rider be eliminated? Should the rider be eliminated immediately upon entering at A? Before they enter the ring? Be allowed to ride through the test and eliminated at the end? Be allowed to ride through the test and not be notified that they are eliminated until scores are posted?

On a similar note, who's responsibility is it to actually eliminate the rider? I am assuming that it's the judge's responsibility, but are other officials allowed to eliminate the rider (and, if so, at what point does the elimination by that official happen). If the judge is the only official who can do the eliminating, if the judge does not eliminate the rider, what is the recourse after the test has been completed and the rider has left the ring (i.e. does the rider just get lucky).

Thanks again!

[eggbutt]

All answers can be found here: http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2009/08-DR.pdf

DR124 is the specific elimination rule.

[Dressage Art]

Judge is responsible for eliminations INSIDE of the show arena as soon as rider enters at A. Judge can eliminate rider at any moment. If it's an important show, like championships, judge probably would eliminate the rider ASAP and ask her to leave. If it's a more relaxed show or a schooling show, judge might let the rider to finish her test just for the sake of practice and during the final salute tell the rider that she was eliminated b/c of the following reasons...

Anything that is going on outside of the dressage lettered court is the responsibility of the show management. Show management is responsible for eliminating the rider outside of the dressage lettered court. If you have a bit checkers and bit checker finds a twisted wire bit, she should go to the show manager and show manager would eliminate that ride. If you will have a TD, show management always can double check with TD for exact interpretation of the rule. TD also should watch for the illegal conduct, but can not eliminate anybody anywhere, but should report the broken rule to the show manager or show judge and they would eliminate that rider. TD also writes up the report that goes directly to USEF.

[Janet]

DR124.2
Only the officiating Jury may eliminate a competitor for a rule violation listed under DR120
or DR122, only from the test in question, and (except for late entry into the arena) only after
the competitor has entered the arena. Members of the Ground Jury have no authority to eliminate
under any other circumstances, except during a test, for use of illegal equipment, not
wearing a number, cruelty and abuse or leaving the arena without the judges’ permission.
Authority for rule enforcement outside the competition ring rests solely with the Show Committee
(see General Rules, GR1217). Competition Management/Show Committee has the
authority to eliminate for use of illegal equipment during a test that is discovered after the
competitor has left the arena.
Can't be eliminated for the polo wraps until the horse enters the arena, because they haven't broken the rule until they enter the arena.

It is up to the judge's discretion whether to tell them they are eliminated as soon as they enter the arena, to let them ride the test and then tell them, or to let them ride the test and have them find out when they check the scoreboard. Around here, MOST judges will do the second.

Only the judge can eliminate for something that happens INSIDE the arena. Only show management can eliminate for something that happens OUTSIDE the arena.

[Anselcat]

Related question ...

If I am a show volunteer (ring steward, gate person, whatever) and see someone heading in for their warm-up lap around the arena who is wearing polo wraps, can I say something? Is that verboten or considered unfair aid to a competitor?

I probably wouldn't say anything if they were carrying a whip in a class that didn't allow them, since I know some riders will drop their whip as they enter at A.

[Gloria]

I don't know whether you "should" say anything but I surely hope that someone would remind me that my tack is going to get me eliminated. You know, in the chaos of showing, sometimes a person just gets too nervous and forget about all the things that she should have remembered... Like letting the tail down, or removing the polo wraps, or wearing a number... But that's me. I greatly appreciate any friendly reminders. Some might find them offensive.. don't know...

[Dressage Art]

If they are in the ear's reach, I think they will appreciate that they forgot to take their wraps off, forgot number, helmet, etc. If they are already far and you have to yell for every body else to hear - may be not, since it can be distracting for others.

[SillyHorse]

Related question ...

If I am a show volunteer (ring steward, gate person, whatever) and see someone heading in for their warm-up lap around the arena who is wearing polo wraps, can I say something? Is that verboten or considered unfair aid to a competitor?

I probably wouldn't say anything if they were carrying a whip in a class that didn't allow them, since I know some riders will drop their whip as they enter at A.
In dressage, what you can't do is coach in any way once a ride begins a test. There may be some other things you can't do, but you certainly can tell someone they need to remove their wraps or boots.

[quietann]

It was only a schooling show, but I was quite happy to find that the person in charge of getting horses to the rings had a measuring tape and scissors clearly available, and would measure the whip of anyone who asked, and cut off the end if it was too long. She also reminded people who were "on deck" to remove wraps or boots if they had them on.

I think we should take a page from our eventing friends and help each other out, up until the horse is in the ring.

[tm]

And then if you go over and actually take the wraps off for the distracted rider, you are truly a wonderful person and I'd like to think that you are accruing a lot of good karma points! :)

[scubed]

when I volunteer/bit check, I always ask, "do you have someone to help you remove your boots/wraps/running martingale, etc. or would you like me to do it for you before you go in?" I feel that sounds more like I believe they know the rules, but is also a reminder and an offer of help if they need it. I also have started just taking my (legal) dressage whip with me and lending it to riders if the one they have is too long (used to do the scissors).

[eggbutt]

when I volunteer/bit check, I always ask, "do you have someone to help you remove your boots/wraps/running martingale, etc. or would you like me to do it for you before you go in?" I feel that sounds more like I believe they know the rules, but is also a reminder and an offer of help if they need it. I also have started just taking my (legal) dressage whip with me and lending it to riders if the one they have is too long (used to do the scissors).


Super good for you!!!!! :yes::yes::yes: I will thank you in advance for all the nervous riders who forget to thank you!!!!

[FriesianX]

I have TWICE actually seen judges remind competitors as they trot around the ring, that they are still wearing polos - I thought to myself, what a KIND and understanding judge! Volunteers can definately remind people. Until you enter at A, people can help you out:yes:

[SevenDogs]

when I volunteer/bit check, I always ask, "do you have someone to help you remove your boots/wraps/running martingale, etc. or would you like me to do it for you before you go in?" I feel that sounds more like I believe they know the rules, but is also a reminder and an offer of help if they need it. I also have started just taking my (legal) dressage whip with me and lending it to riders if the one they have is too long (used to do the scissors).

Volunteers like you are THE BEST!! Thank you!! :yes: :yes: :yes:

[Anselcat]

I guess my question wasn't entirely clear. I was trying to find out if there are limits on what you can say when you are show staff. If I was leaving the ring as a competitor and noticed that the next horse coming in was wearing wraps, I'm really not so petty that I would stay quiet and allow the rider to get eliminated. ;)

[asb_own_me]

when I volunteer/bit check, I always ask, "do you have someone to help you remove your boots/wraps/running martingale, etc. or would you like me to do it for you before you go in?" I feel that sounds more like I believe they know the rules, but is also a reminder and an offer of help if they need it. I also have started just taking my (legal) dressage whip with me and lending it to riders if the one they have is too long (used to do the scissors).

Definitely big karma points coming your way :)

[scubed]

and, asb_own_me - a good friend of mine has a dog (Catahoula mix) named Pony, so a horse named Puppy doesn't seem so odd

[Foxtrot's]

Volunteers like you make riders believe that you are on their side, not looking to be punitive and it can only strengthen and improve the sport.

[slpeders]

Interestingly, this came up at a show this summer and our TD said that from her perspective while SHE couldn't say something to a rider, the gatekeeper/bitchecker could say something. Her point was that since she roams the grounds and is staff, she could be perceived as giving favor to a rider if she mentioned something to one, but missed another. Whoever is standing AT the ring would more likely see each rider in a class and as long as they consistently did the same thing (and her recommendation was exactly what Scubed said - ''do you have someone coming to help you take your wraps off?") that was ok.