PDA

View Full Version : Revenue enhancement? Hunter equitation fee?



paint hunter
May. 5, 2009, 08:09 PM
Perhaps some of you experienced show gurus can explain this fee to me. My trainer took my horse to a rated show last week for some of the baby classes (i.e., training hunters, baby green hunters). It was our first recognized show and I now realize what people are talking about with all the fees. I can understand both state and USEF drug fees, haul in fee, different organization fees, but I still can't figure out what is a "hunter equitation fee" of $35. My horse didn't show in any equitation classes. I don't mind "taxation", just want to know what it is for. My trainer didn't know either but the show said that all horses showing in hunter classes had to pay this fee.

Can someone please educate me?

Vandy
May. 5, 2009, 10:01 PM
I am guessing that it is a Hunter/Equitation nominating fee, which is lower than the Jumper nominating fee, so consider yourself lucky you didn't have to pay that :lol: The shows around here just call it a nominating fee, but I have seen it called a Hunter/Equitation nominating fee as well, to differentiate it from the nominating fee that the jumpers pay. Whatever it's called, it's just another way of taking our money :lol:

I bet how it started is, some jumper rider said to the show manager, "why don't the hunters and the eq riders have to pay a nominating fee too?" And the show manager thought to himself, hey, that's not a bad idea...:lol: :lol:

grandprixjump
May. 6, 2009, 12:35 AM
The show managers had to come up with some way to recoup what they aren't getting due to the decline in attendance... Pretty soon they might come up with a REAL NON SHOWING FEE (If you own a horse within the 200 mile limit of the show and aren't going to that show, you have to pay the management $50 for NON SHOWING HORSE)....:lol::lol:

juniormom
May. 6, 2009, 12:57 AM
The counts will stay down permanently if they don't quit adding all of these fees! You have to be kidding? An equitation fee? Those classes don't pay any prize money. My daughter is no longer a junior, but there are some other eq classes. That is the craziest thing I have ever heard of! They are charging a class fee for the eq, why add extra to that? I get so irritated about being "nickel and dimed" to death! It won't stop unless some of us speak up and do something about it. Also, having the mileage rule eliminated would help. I believe that the show managers should do more to promote the sport itself and work on getting the public to the special classes, thereby eliminating some fees for the exhibitors. Novel idea, isn't it? It is amazing to me that a quarter horse show can be in a faciiity the week before with twice the number of judges and the stall fees are half what they are for the h/j shows! Any ideas?

Mardi
May. 6, 2009, 03:50 AM
That's absurd. Don't put up with that nonsense. If you're not satisfied with the explanation that show staff gave for the fee, then deduct it from your final check and tell them that when they can explain the reason for the fee, then you'll decide if you'll pay it or not.

But what's worse is that your "professional" trainer didn't find out what the fee really was. She agreed to having YOU pay it, without getting a valid explanation.

She's working on your behalf - she works for YOU.
It's HER responsibility to look out for YOUR best interests.

When she presented you with the show bill, and you had a question about the fee, the trainer should have been able to get the answer for you. A REAL explanation - not just "everyone has to pay it".

The explanation was probably in the prize list. Did she look there ?
If not, she should have asked the show manager while she was at the show, or called afterwards. YOU -as the customer of the show and of the trainer- deserve an answer.

If it was me, I'd deduct that fee from her next check.
Next time, she won't be so cavalier about spending your money.

Mardi
May. 6, 2009, 03:53 AM
It is amazing to me that a quarter horse show can be in a faciiity the week before with twice the number of judges and the stall fees are half what they are for the h/j shows! Any ideas?

Yep. It's what the market will bear.

A farrier told me once that when he goes to non h/j shows, he charges one price, and when he goes to a h/j show, he doubles it. He said all farriers do.

Renn/aissance
May. 6, 2009, 09:47 AM
I still can't figure out what is a "hunter equitation fee" of $35.

Here's what it is: ridiculous.

mvp
May. 6, 2009, 10:25 AM
I know I'm old and haven't been paying attention, but what is the jumper nominating fee for, if not a surcharge tacked onto entries? Why not just jack up the entry fees? Same goes for "schooling over fences" fee. Why not add that into the entry fee?

Confused with pricing strategy that says $19.99 isn't twenty bucks.

Gwendolyn
May. 6, 2009, 10:32 AM
That's absurd. Don't put up with that nonsense. If you're not satisfied with the explanation that show staff gave for the fee, then deduct it from your final check and tell them that when they can explain the reason for the fee, then you'll decide if you'll pay it or not.

But what's worse is that your "professional" trainer didn't find out what the fee really was. She agreed to having YOU pay it, without getting a valid explanation.

She's working on your behalf - she works for YOU.
It's HER responsibility to look out for YOUR best interests.

When she presented you with the show bill, and you had a question about the fee, the trainer should have been able to get the answer for you. A REAL explanation - not just "everyone has to pay it".

The explanation was probably in the prize list. Did she look there ?
If not, she should have asked the show manager while she was at the show, or called afterwards. YOU -as the customer of the show and of the trainer- deserve an answer.

If it was me, I'd deduct that fee from her next check.
Next time, she won't be so cavalier about spending your money.


My exact thought....when I was showing clients' horses, they got an estimate of the show fees up front (which meant I went over the fees on the prizelist and added them up for the client, including figuring out what classes the horse would enter, with the explanation that we may add or scratch as necessary). If there was a question about fees, I had better have an answer! :eek:

scheibyee
May. 6, 2009, 10:39 AM
The show managers had to come up with some way to recoup what they aren't getting due to the decline in attendance... Pretty soon they might come up with a REAL NON SHOWING FEE (If you own a horse within the 200 mile limit of the show and aren't going to that show, you have to pay the management $50 for NON SHOWING HORSE)....:lol::lol:

PLEASE don't give them any ideas!! They're quick to jump on anything these days... :rolleyes:

Vandy
May. 6, 2009, 11:02 AM
That's absurd. Don't put up with that nonsense. If you're not satisfied with the explanation that show staff gave for the fee, then deduct it from your final check and tell them that when they can explain the reason for the fee, then you'll decide if you'll pay it or not.
Yeah, that's a great idea :rolleyes: Save $35, but get suspended from USEF because you failed to pay your fees at a show. Straightening that out will cost more than $35, believe me. Or leave your trainer to cover your fees - I don't know about your barn, but for mine, my check is the last one closed, and anything my clients didn't pay gets tacked on to mine. Oh, and not to mention, make everyone else who is waiting to close out their checks stand in the office behind you late on a Sunday while their horses wait to go home while you argue over $35. Not a great way to make friends and influence your office staff or your fellow competitors!

The key is to look at the fine print on the prize list BEFORE entering the show, ask any questions to the secretary - if the secretary cannot answer your questions, ask for the show manager. If the show manager cannot explain, contact the organization that is running the show or the USEF if it is one of their fees. You may not like the fees, but it's unlikely the show will change them just for you.

Fixerupper
May. 6, 2009, 11:19 AM
and, of course, people run horse shows for fun not for profit - have you ever run one?...it's way fun! When the entries are down and the books are in the red - most fun ever :D

M. Owen
May. 6, 2009, 01:29 PM
I always thought for jumpers that they charge a nominating fee because prize money is offered. If that is true, I can maybe see a nominating fee for hunters, but in equitation they can't offer prize money. Just one more fee! If I saw that fee on a prize list, it may make me think twice about attending the show.

Jumphigh83
May. 6, 2009, 01:54 PM
I wasn't sure when Billy was coming back from school so I didn't send in St Clements entries....He's home so I thought I would take a few of the horses up for the weekend to show....NOT! $50 late fee, $50 (a DAY) ship in fee, and the ever popular $35 "office fee"(they have to rent the office??) $135 dollars PER HORSE before the trailer got hooked up (that is whole 'nuther story) or diesel got put in the truck or the classes were entered....so they dont want your 500 dollars they want your 500 PLUS 135 PER HORSE in misc fees...so they get NOTHING. What a STUPID business decision. WAKE UP management!!... the day of sticking it in and breaking it off in the exhibitor might just be over...(Thank God) $550 dollars(late, ship in times 2 and office for three horses) in stupid fees? I think NOT!

Jumphigh83
May. 6, 2009, 01:57 PM
and, of course, people run horse shows for fun not for profit - have you ever run one?...it's way fun! When the entries are down and the books are in the red - most fun ever :D

I have NO problem with horse shows making a profit....I DO have a problem with usury fees....there is profit and then there is profiteering....BIG DIFFERENCE!

Mardi
May. 6, 2009, 02:25 PM
Yeah, that's a great idea :rolleyes: Save $35, but get suspended from USEF because you failed to pay your fees at a show. Straightening that out will cost more than $35, believe me.

No one is going to get suspended from USEF.

Once she has the explanation, if she disagrees with it, or finds the fee excessive, she has the option to deduct it from her check. Let show management come after her for it. Or let them report her to USEF. Then USEF can go after her for it.

When/if she hears from USEF, she can pay it if she wants. She can also file a complaint with USEF about show managment charging excessive fees.

The point is to SPEAK UP and stop being railroaded into paying these meaningless fees.


Oh, and not to mention, make everyone else who is waiting to close out their checks stand in the office behind you late on a Sunday while their horses wait to go home while you argue over $35. Not a great way to make friends and influence your office staff or your fellow competitors!

Why wait until the very end of the show ? The fees aren't a secret, and an exhibitor's show account can be pulled up at any time. The time to ask is at the beginning of the show, not at the end. Anyone who waits until the end of show to dispute fees is obnoxious.

mvp
May. 6, 2009, 02:41 PM
The time to ask about fees is when you get the prize list. Get the answer or solution you want. (By the way, please don't expect that because you are a BNT you get different rates than others. It used to chap my hide bad when their clients were not charged post-entries but the rest of us were!) Then vote with your feet and your wallet, letting the show management know why you took whatever course of action you did.

PonyPenny
May. 6, 2009, 10:11 PM
The shows at the LA Equestrian Center in Burbank have alot of these fees. I have never understood the nominating fees. What am I being nominated for? They charge a jumper nominating fee even for classes with no prize money. The have a hunter/equitation nominating fee and then a jumper nominating fee. What if you want to do jumpers and equitation and not hunters? You have to pay two nominating fees. There is also a late fee for all shows even their "B" rated ones. It is a beautiful facility and the shows are well run, but I cringe at paying these fees. Many of the local medal finals are at this facility, so I guess you have to pay to play.

Mardi
May. 6, 2009, 11:31 PM
And the show manager recently had a puff piece written about him in a h/j magazine.

Who are they kidding ?

mvp
May. 7, 2009, 07:59 AM
jumpinghigh83

"Sticking it in and breaking it off in the exhibitor"-- a delicious spin off on just "sticking it to" that I clearly (clearly!) need to add to my vocab. Thanks! Seriously.

PineTreeFarm
May. 7, 2009, 09:57 AM
No one is going to get suspended from USEF.

Once she has the explanation, if she disagrees with it, or finds the fee excessive, she has the option to deduct it from her check. Let show management come after her for it. Or let them report her to USEF. Then USEF can go after her for it.

When/if she hears from USEF, she can pay it if she wants. She can also file a complaint with USEF about show managment charging excessive fees.

The point is to SPEAK UP and stop being railroaded into paying these meaningless fees.

Why wait until the very end of the show ? The fees aren't a secret, and an exhibitor's show account can be pulled up at any time. The time to ask is at the beginning of the show, not at the end. Anyone who waits until the end of show to dispute fees is obnoxious.

You can indeed be suspended for nonpayment.
If you want to dispute entry fees it costs $100. If you lose ( and you will lose) you owe the disputed fees plus $100. Plus any expenses for a hearing.

If you issue a bad check and don't pay the fees are very high. As much as $750 in fines.

So make sure you understand the fees BEFORE you enter.

monalisa
May. 7, 2009, 09:59 AM
I think that many show managers believe that once the "recession" is over, like later this year if you listen to NYT, that everything will return to "normal" (read, the good old days). Hate to break the news, but I think the good old days are over - do others believe that we will return to the days of spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow in another 12 months.

Once the reality sets in, that the world has changed, at least in the US, then maybe we will see some changes at the shows. I am holding my breath, and keeping my checkbook and horses at home.

MIKES MCS
May. 7, 2009, 01:18 PM
Now that the recession has hit Horse show world people who otherwise would never have even looked at fees are just starting to realize they are being charged for NOTHING ! Horse show management took a look at Jumper Division Nominating fees and decided that this would be a great way to generate an extra few thousand for their own pocket , That’s IT . This fee should be called what it is , Management enhancement fees. It's not enough to earn a paycheck anymore, if you had to sweat and slave 16 hours days for the rich and famous's entertainment , your gonna sure as hell milk em for all their worth.. So when Show management is left with nothing BUT people who pay their bills through trust funds I wonder where your numbers will be . You get what you deserve and in the end it's gonna cost them their business .. Just like the track , if the 2 dollar bettor leaves , you got only a handful of high rollers .. you got nothing .
JMHO

mvp
May. 7, 2009, 01:26 PM
I like the sentiment of MIKES MCS's post because I see a caveat and a solution.

Horse show managers can ask for whatever they want. They can insist on whatever size profit margin they want. If you are dumb enough to pay it, then that's on your end.

The solution is, as always, to spend your money in a way that lines up with your values.

When people say "You must pay to play" (as though that's a metaphysical truth and constant) I stop playing if I think I'm being bilked. If the recession makes the horsey set get a little more cost-conscious, I think that's a great side-effect.

Peggy
May. 7, 2009, 02:08 PM
IMHO, they're like the junk fees that you pay on a mortgage that make the real rate higher than the advertised %. Or pricing gas at $2.25^99 so it looks more like $2.25 than $2.26. People tend to add up the entries and stabling when they're guesstimating what a show will cost and forget about the medley of show and association fees.

When I was managing shows I tried to get the rest of the board to eliminate the junk fees (grounds, EMT...) and just add a dollar or two to each class fee so people would have a better idea of what the show would cost (plus, it would be fairer to the person who came in to do one walk-trot class). Needless to say, I was over-ruled on that one. The fees got added in the first place because costs went up and they didn't want to raise entry fees. Hello:confused:

MIKES MCS
May. 7, 2009, 06:54 PM
Unless your running a small schooling series , Horse Shows Do make a lot of money.. Up until this point the average exhibitor at a rated show really didn't bother with looking at the entries, their Trainer took care of it. now the under $250,00.00 Middle Class American Crowd ( BA HA thats what this administration says is Middle class) is starting to take notice.. $5.00 there , $20.00 here $50.00 over there never really mattered, who cared what it was for .. you spent more than that on your morning Latte , Until NOW There was another thread on why do A shows offer x pole divisions ??? This is why .. Get EVERYONE to the BIG Show with the BIG fees and each one of those x polers bring another $450.00 to show management and that has NOTING to do with entires! add 20 of them and thats $9,000 1/2 of which covers nothing accept the show managers pocket.

Yes I know about Insurance, I know about EMTS I know about Cost of Help , Judges Ribbons Ring maintance I know about it all.. I also know the attitude is MILK THEM FOR ALL THEY'RE worth now cause they might not have in another year .