Missing my boy and feeling guilty [Archive]

thatmoody

May. 4, 2009, 11:58 PM

All last year I rode my boy - a 6 year old TB who I had just started in June. I knew he had some mild neurological stuff going on, but thought it was manageable. Fast forward to a diagnosis of EDM (Equine Degenerative Myelopathy) and full retirement. He is on Vit. E and is doing ok as a pasture puff, but...

Because he is out of commission, my trainer has been letting me ride her incredibly talented Oldenburg gelding, as well as her Friesian stallion. I was planning on riding them along WITH my boy, but this has made her really concentrate on bringing all three of us along, and I feel guilty.

I love riding these two, but yesterday when I was riding the gelding, my boy stood out in the pasture and watched the entire lesson. Riveted, like he was trying to figure out what was going on. I took him afterwards and hand grazed him, so I don't feel like I'm neglecting him, but I think I have a slight case of survivor's guilt. I was really looking forward to training with him - we were really beginning to develop a strong partnership, and now I miss that. I know that I will develop it again with another horse, but for now, I'm torn.

Those of you who come from the English world and ride (and love) multiple horses, how do you do it? I come from a cowboy perspective where you had incredibly cheap horses, but they were yours, and you took great pride in making diamonds out of coal. I really am looking forward to the incredible opportunity that I've been given, but...

HollysHobbies

May. 5, 2009, 08:20 AM

The Tao of Equus might be a good read. :)

Perhaps you could focus on learning something new with him...for me, for example, I've always wanted to learn roundpen work...and I'm working on groundwork with my lame warmblood right now

That's a tough spot...I wish you the best! Sounds like you're doing the right thing!

slc2

May. 5, 2009, 08:34 AM

I am very, very, VERY sure your horse is not sitting around thinking, 'I begrudge her the opportunity to ride another horse'.

I think it is much more like this, not in words, but in habits and familiarity: 'There's my girl, I bet she'll be over soon to give me a treat'. I really think you're projecting how you feel onto your horse. No, actually, I don't think 'Thoroughbreds are good at the guilt thing'. I think that's anthropomorphosizing.

And a little bit of what an Indian friend calls 'Sweet Pain'. We DO love to torture ourselves, don't we.

Horses have habits. When they retire, they get used to a new routine. Some horses get used to the change of routine more quickly than others. My old guy that retired for a while missed our routine, but got comfortable with his brand new routine - VERY comfortable. Lots of pats, grooming, hand grazing, eating, eating and eating, and NO WORK. No fussy grooming, either, just lots of rubbing, massaging and no more standing still to have his mane pulled or his whiskers trimmed. VERY happy. Now he has a pal he goes out with.

When we are working them and interacting with them, they are 'ours'. Before they come to us, they belong to their mother and their herd. When we are done working them, a little bit, they go back to their herd, to their horse friends, to live a natural life full of eating and resting and doing exactly what they deserve, just being natural and being a horse.

We have to be able to let them go and do this. We can mourn that we aren't working with them any more, but we can never, for a moment, pretend, successfully, that they are not leading a natural, healthy life, and if they could think about it, everything they dreamed of.

People wish to retire too, and as far as he's concerned, if he thought about it that way, he'd say, 'I hit the lottery. Look at this wonderful pasture and my friends all around me. I couldn't wish for anything better'. he isn't sitting around stewing because he isn't going to the Olympics or because he's got a condition....he's saying, 'just look at this lovely grass!'

Don't kid yourself. Your 'cowboy' perspective is no different from anyone else's, and the statemnts insult others who have different circumstances.

I have paid x for one horse, x times 10 for another horse, and x times 50 for another horse. I love them all. I feel no different about any of them. It's the time and effort and knowing them that creates the feelings we have.

It doesn't matter how much a horse costs or doesn't cost - don't kid yourself that what someone pays for a horse changes anything of how a person feels about them or what they mean to the person.

It's the time and the effort that we put into them that makes them 'ours' and creates the love and joy we have with them. Money is nothing in that equation.

Like the lady who rescued the dog in Herriot's book, 'Haven't I made a difference to this horse' is what we ALL feel.

That we have cared well for a horse, made the right decisions for them, and made their life better.

YOU are to be commended. Your horse has the best life he possibly could have. Instead of being sent 'down the hill' to limp out his days in a riding school or camp string or pulling an Amish buggy, he's comfortable and happy, in a beautiful pasture, with everything he could want. You really can't have regrets.

We can't control that they get a neurological condition - and that isn't our job, that's up to a higher power, and for all you know, the good Lord sent this horse to you because he KNEW you would do right by him and very few others would.

Our ONLY real job with horses, is to give them the best possible life they can have. And you did that, so don't beat yourself up.

Demeter

May. 5, 2009, 08:41 AM

I think it is much more like this, not in words, but in habits and familiarity: 'There's my girl, I bet she'll be over soon to give me a treat'.

I agree.

I mostly ride the horse I lease rather than the mare I own. She watches everything and gives it about 20 minutes after I'm done being schooled by the old guy before she starts calling for me.

Your horse sounds better mannered ;) ... but he's just waiting for the interaction with you that he's come to expect and looking forward to that time.

Jealoushe

May. 5, 2009, 09:04 AM

Just because you can't ride him doesn't mean you can't keep yuor bond and spend time together.

Do you give him a good grooming every day? Do you ever do ground work with him?

I ride my two horses every night and have a close bond with both of them. I can't imagine not spending that time with them if they weren't rideable. I would still be there grooming them, and what not.

2boys

May. 5, 2009, 10:37 AM

It took me a LOOONG time to be okay with retiring my quarter horse when he was eight. I won't repeat what slc said, but agree with it, and highly recommend all of the tips. Again, just know that you are so doing right by him. It is tough though; I get it.:sadsmile:

thatmoody

May. 5, 2009, 01:04 PM

Thanks for the perspective, everyone - I absolutely KNOW that I'm anthromorphosizing, and just because I know that, doesn't mean I will stop doing it :D.

I also didn't mean any offense, by the way - I was getting a bit tangled up in my own words with my ideas about cultural differences, and think I'll just stop there, because I'm having trouble clearly expressing my thoughts today. :lol:

And yes, I'm giving him treats, grooming him, etc., and I KNOW that he's perfectly happy as a babysitter - it's all me, and my own mindset. I suppose it's something I'm just gonna go through - I do have a grieving process for myself and all the hopes I had for this horse, even while he's out there playing with the babies.

angel

May. 5, 2009, 01:52 PM

If he was watching you as intently as he was, I have to feel you were not all that wrong in what you were thinking, especially if you and he were beginning to create a bond. You need to reassure him that he did not fail, but that you love him and want to preserve his health. If you can, you might also want to just saddle him and walk him around the pasture a little, praising him in the old way that you did before. Seeing that you are in Florida, you also need to monitor his selenium levels as Florida is a low selenium state.

thatmoody

May. 5, 2009, 02:47 PM

He's on a selenium supplement as well as the elevate WS, but yes, he did test low for that, as well. It's been a couple of months with not much improvement though. And I was thinking that I could take him into the pond now, too - he would probably enjoy that - as much as I hate groundwork, we're going to ground drive him and practice on him before we GD the babies.

angel

May. 5, 2009, 03:01 PM

What exactly are his symptoms, and did you get a second opinion?

thatmoody

May. 5, 2009, 03:33 PM

He has grade 3 neurological symptoms in the hind end, and grade 1 in the front. It's been developing over the years, but has pretty much stopped progressing in the last year. He's been evaluated both by two local vets, and by a large local equine hospital. He did have the cervical xrays to check for wobbles, as well, and blood tests for sel. an vit. e levels (he was deficient in both). So we're supplementing and re-evaluating in 6 months, but I haven't seen any progress yet (it's been 2 now). He's turned out now in a large pasture with our two babies, and seems to enjoy his new "job" (he's always loved babies). He's definitely not rideable now - both vet's comments were "I can't believe you've been riding him!"

Actually, writing all that kind of helped with the grieving process, I think. It's been a long year searching for first a diagnosis, then for some kind of resolution. I wasn't happy with hearing the news - he LOOKS perfectly healthy except for his gaits. He's a beautiful boy, and only 8...

thatmoody

May. 5, 2009, 03:36 PM

Oh, and the exact symptoms are subtle - he lifts his back legs "funny" (at first we thought it was stifles or stringhalt), and he staggers a bit from time to time.

anchorsaway

May. 5, 2009, 04:14 PM

I went through a retirement last year and it was possibly one the hardest things I've ever had to do. I kept feeling like I didn't do *enough*. I totally understand the 'guilt'!

Just remember that you've always done right by him and keep that chin up! :)

Pookah

May. 5, 2009, 04:15 PM

I've struggled with this, too, and I would swear that my retired horse is jealous when I groom and ride the younger one. But, a lot of that is anthropomorphizing, and the rest is easily cured through spending some time grooming and fussing over your guy. I do think that some horses are happier when they have a job--whether that is babysitting, doing ground work, etc. Maybe you could teach him a trick or something? I share a project horse with a friend, he was abused and really not good at anything when he arrived. We taught him to bow, and it was really what started him down the road to being "fixed." Three years later, he has come SO far, and he goes wonderfully under saddle and trusts us, and is a total sweetheart, but he still loves to bow and show off. I truly think that it helped him to feel successful at something. So, doing something along those lines might help both of you feel productive, and be kind of fun.

Pookah

May. 5, 2009, 04:17 PM

And PS, don't feel guilty--not many people would be so generous as to do the right thing by this horse!

slc2

May. 5, 2009, 05:51 PM

Retiring our horses means being accepting and sometimes the only immediate comfort is knowing that we are doing the best for the horse.

There is a grieving period. I think what we grieve more than anything is the lost potential and the loss of a familiar partner, but there is also the agonizing thought that we didn't do the right thing every step of the way, or that we should have done something different...I also think there is a great deal of anxiety for ourselves...now we have to go out and find a new horse, there will be new challenges, and a lot of unknowns, will we be able to rise to the occasion? I think fear of what is to come is often more painful than what is.

What is, is a beautiful, happy horse, being cared for just as he should be, based on the best guidance possible - living a natural, healthy life.

Your horse doesn't resent this situation. Your horse is not fretting over the future. Your horse is a lucky fellow to have an owner that takes care of him...'for better or for worse' is really, honestly, what we sign up for when we take ahold of that lead shank.

buck22

May. 5, 2009, 08:25 PM

I feel I never can make enough time for my retiree, that I can never do enough for him, he's always getting whatever "left over" time I have in terms of attention and love. Though of course he gets first class care. My old gentleman is extraordinarily personable and would really rather be in the company of people than other horses. He happily leaves his grain for a grooming session. He loves to just hang around people and "talk" (gently sniff your hair and nape of neck and flick your earlobes).

When you mention your horse watching your ride, and the emotions you feel, I've been there a thousand times. Of course I'm anthropomorphizing, but it feels so real sometimes.... I really *know* that my horse hates being retired, he hates being stuck home, he hates watching everyone else go off.... not that he's herdbound, he just wants to go to work again, and can't :cry:

It makes me genuinely sad, and its been many years and I've never gotten over it. When I had only him, and was looking at the first go-round of his retirement, I wasn't that sad.... I was frustrated spending boatloads of money on horse I'd never ride again, but I adored him so much it didn't really bother me that much. Just having a giant 'pet' was fine as long as I could keep him happy and comfortable. He got every ounce of my time and effort.

As I started adding horses though, then my attention was divided. My retiree, if at liberty, will physically compete to be closest to me, he'll follow me wherever I am, practically sit in my lap if he can, and linger for an agonizing long period of time whenever I leave. Often, I leave, drive down the street, turnaround, sneak back and he's still standing at the last place he saw me, looking for me. Good golly he breaks my heart.

Anyhow, its been years and its no easier for me. I guess, I should be thankful that I have such a special animal in my life that he can make me feel this way. There will never be another like him.

Sorry, that was probably absolutely no help whatsoever :)

2boys

May. 5, 2009, 08:46 PM

slc2

May. 6, 2009, 07:13 AM

It's not possible that the horse is just remembering his old routine as all horses remember all their routines, and that 99.9999% of the anguish is felt by the human, not the horse?

Our horses are not in our lives solely or even mostly, to teach us how to post the trot, or do a half pass. When we ride, I think we forget that.

But they are here to teach us grace, acceptance, and a keying in to the beauties, rhythms, as well as the inescapable truths of their world, not ours.

There's an old story of a horse used to thresh grain, who spent his entire days walking a circle around the thresher. When he was put out to pasture and retired at a very ancient age, he seemed confused. He stood at the gate waiting for someone to take him to the threshing ground.

Finally, after a time, he started to walk in slow, quiet circles in his field.

I think people look at this and react with various, very, very strong emotions.

For some, they cry and beat their chests that the poor animal's mind is now broken by his years of miserable servitude, and use it as a metaphor for the common man who works his years away.

Others smile at the brave and gentle spirit of the faithful animal who so kindly and patiently serves man, and wishes to keep on serving even when his work days are over, just like the Bible says.

I just keep watching...people and horses....

Say the threshing horse walks- walking is the best exercise there is for old horses. He seems well fed, and the walking prevents stiffness. He stands with his pasture mates, and he seems quiet and calm. I see merely one that had acquired a habit over the years. I'd see a horse that like all horses, has a phenomenal memory for routine.

The saying goes that no animal clings to its habits more than the horse. I believe it. Our horses watch and wait for us, not because they miss work at all, not because they are miserable or trying to cause us guilt, but merely because it was their routine for years.

I was delighted when my old timer got into his new routine. He remembers everything if we saddle up for a hack, and I expect him to recall evey move I made for years - horses have phenomenal memories. But I don't take it as pain. It brings me great joy that he pricks up his ears when he sees me, and that he lazes around in the grass enjoying himself.

He earned it, 1 million times over. He has his forever home. And I hope one day he lies down quietly in the grass and passes peacefully and gently, with his friends all around him, thanking him for everything he did for us for so many years. When he was young, he taught us, and when he was old, he was still teaching us even more important things, we just didn't realize it.

The most important thing, Willem said, to paraphrase, 'is that someone loves you'.

The ownership of a horse is about love, not about riding. We love to ride them, and when that time is done, there is just love.

buck22

May. 6, 2009, 07:28 AM

It's not possible that the horse is just remembering his old routine as all horses remember all their routines, and that 99.9999% of the anguish is felt by the human, not the horse?
Without question, I know my retiree wants to go out and explore again. Though his body can't keep up, his mind is still extremely active. Though, any *feelings* attached are completely on my end..... he just begs all day long, like a dog that wants to be by your side and never leave it. When he's with you, he sighs contentedly, when he can't be he has this riveted forlorn stare. The forlorn is my addition, I really don't know what he's feeling, but he does stare intensely.

great story though :D

2boys, I don't know how you ever get anything done with them in your back yard.... I could never walk outside thinking of doing a quick errand/etc if I had that arrangement, I'd be cuddling my horse all day long.:lol:

slc2

May. 6, 2009, 07:37 AM

I simply do not agree with you, you are entitled to see this as some sort of noble tragedy of clinging devotion, but I don't. If the horse is 'staring' or seems to be not adjusting well, then the new routine has not been put into shape properly, and needs to be adjusted to his needs. I get no 'sweet pain' from seeing this sort of thing. If this is happening, something needs to change. The horse may need a different sort of facility, with more horsey company and/or pasture.

buck22

May. 6, 2009, 08:16 AM

hmm. Its been four years since he's worn a saddle, I don't know how much longer it should take for my horse to realize he's not going to work any longer. :lol: The routine, if there ever was one, has been broken for a while.

He lives out 24/7 on 3 wooded rolling acres with friends in a paddock paradise type situation. He has hay and pasture 24/7. He is in wonderful heath other than being lame and retired. He is playful and spirited and spends his days playing and rarely loafs.

I completely understand your position from a practical emotional standpoint, but do you feel my horse is distressed because he follows me around like a dog seeking attention? He adores human attention, should I take that as a sign that his living arrangements aren't all that they could be? How else could I possibly enhance his life other than turn him loose back to his original range?

Really, I wish I could, there is no limit to what I would do for this animal.

I simply do not agree with you, you are entitled to see this as some sort of noble tragedy of clinging devotion, but I don't.
I understand your point though, and do feel a clinging devotion, though noble tragedy is a bit more romantic than I really feel. We're deeply united, we've shared a very long past and a lot of intense experiences together. I think, when I'm around he wants to be a part of whatever I've got going on. I also can reach all the itchy spots :)

slc2

May. 6, 2009, 08:32 AM

You see it your way, I see it differently. You don't have to change your mind. I'm just saying what I think.

I think if a horse is following me around like a dog, he doesn't have enough horse friends and smething is wrong and he's trying to tell me. I agree that some of that is very sweet, but if it seems very needy and persistent, I think there is a problem he wants fixed.

My horse used to cram himself up against the stall door when I came in and look longingly after me when I left. HOW ADORABLE. NO, I was worried, and I started digging around and showing up at odd times. I found out the person I was paying plenty to turn him out with his pals was not doing it, AT ALL. Not one day. NONE of the horses were going out.

The second my horse started getting turned out, he was content and relaxed, and no longer dogging me to fix the problem.

If they are after us constantly, there is something they want fixed, and they know it's up to us to fix it. Horses are horses. They should indeed love their person and be very affectionate, just not needy and dogging us, leaving food, other horses and all their other pleasures in life, and tagging around after us constantly saying, 'excuuuuuse me....listen please....' They could very well do this when the problem is with the person, instead of themselves. Ever thought of THAT?

And I think it's entirely possible that the retired horse senses the owner's agitation and guilt and is going to follow the owner around and dog them until they drop the luggage and relax! Your horse is going to have to stick around til you accept things and relax.

The horse cares about how the owner feels and will stick with them til they calm down and come to their senses. When I am having airway problems my horse sticks right by my side, and as soon as I am better, he goes off to eat his grass. 'You're fine now, so I can go now'.

You can see it as horsey is SO devoted and misses his riding SO MUCH, and I think he's saying, 'I can't enjoy my new life until you stop feeling this way, PLEASE just accept this and let me enjoy my pasture and my friends'.

buck22

May. 6, 2009, 10:06 AM

That is a really interest and frank way of looking at things slc, I think there is advice in there I can take. thanks!:D

eta:

My horse used to cram himself up against the stall door when I came in and look longingly after me when I left. HOW ADORABLE. NO, I was worried, and I started digging around and showing up at odd times. I found out the person I was paying plenty to turn him out with his pals was not doing it, AT ALL. Not one day. NONE of the horses were going out.
I went through this at one point last year, for the same reason, and it didn't take me long to figure out that my horse wasn't being put outside either. Hence we moved.

ccoronios

May. 6, 2009, 10:21 AM

Oh my word, slc -
That story was going through my mind as I was reading this thread. It was the last story in CW Anderson's book about different breeds. I didn't remember that it was a thresher, but I do remember that one day, he heard the noon whistle from the factory and then heard it again as it signaled the end of lunch break. He happened to be standing near a large tree and something clicked in his mind. He spent the rest of his life (as he had before) with that whistle - and wore a deep track around the tree.
Thanks - I HATE crying at work - it runs my makeup.
C

ccoronios

May. 6, 2009, 10:28 AM

thatmoody -
Could your horse have a job? I don't know what your barn is like or what his personality is, but I'm thinking of teaching beginners - how to groom, how to tack up, parts of the horse - all that good stuff. And, for that matter, basic facts of life (like some horses get sick - just like some people).

Learning to ground drive, long line - those are things you can learn together to increase YOUR knowledge. And you can long line out on 'trails' - around pastures, etc.

Good luck. You're so very fortunate that you're able to KEEP this horse and still have your riding experiences. I can't imagine the trauma of those who love their not-so-sound/ healthy equine friends and aren't able to provide a lifetime home.

Carol

slc2

May. 6, 2009, 08:32 PM

There are probably lots of stories about patient work horses who go on with their routine. I can't remember where I read the one about the work horse I mentioned. But I'm sure there are many of them. I think it is a subject that has moved and puzzled and fascinated people for a very, very long time.

I hate to say it, but a horse doesn't even have a frontal area of his brain, like we do. You can't expect him to forget habits and change the same way humans do. They will go on and on and on doing the same things. This is just their nature.

You have to be EXTREMELY careful with ataxic horses. It is very, very important that you not put yourself in a situation, or anyone else caring for the horse. You don't want your horse killing you or someone else.

Often they are best off with as much space around them as possible and as little restraint of the head and neck as possible, and a pasture is usually the very best place for them. Pavement, gravel, ruts, tree roots, can be a big problem.

The OP said the vet told her, 'I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE RIDING HIM', and this means the horse needs to NOT be ground driven or any of the other things you're recommendiing. His job needs to be to be happy, to eat, and to enjoy a natural life with his pals. You WILL see other horses together holding up an unsteady horse. They're big enough, and strong enough.

It is painful, I think, for us controlling, busy, competition minded, possession-loving, jealous humans to even CONSIDER that our horses don't need to be ridden and worked to be happy. In fact, it's rather natural for them to NOT be worked and to be very, very happy. Our horses do not 'need' a 'job'. They are just horses. They are not our sports equipment.

Back to ataxia. They can fall on you. THey weigh 5-10 times what you weigh. That's not a good recipe.

There's a story that went around that a groom died leading a wobblers colt when he fell on him, and I've heard all sorts of stories thru the years about shiverers and other neurologically abnormal horses falling on people and killing them.

When I went up to a big farm when they went bankrupt, one of the hired-in staff (brought in by govt to prep horses for sale), he told me they sent a whole truck load (12, I think?) of foals to weanlings with very badly deformed legs to be put down. They simply could not take the risk of them falling on someone and hurting them (there were some wobblers, some with deformed legs, some with both, he told me).

Additionally, you have to think about behavior changes. At one place I was at, the old breeding stallion started to develop cauda equina, and lose his coordination behind. He would nearly fall, and he got very panicky and defensive if he felt like he was going to lose his balance. I would NEVER want to put long reins on such a horse or try to work them in ANY way. They need their head and neck free and unemcumbered.

thatmoody

May. 7, 2009, 10:18 AM

I would not be able to in good conscience allow anyone but me to handle him. I've worked with him for a long time, and he trusts me when he does begin to be uncoordinated, but I know how to get the heck out of his way and not to hang onto his head - a beginner wouldn't. He's just not safe to be around, although it's hard to believe the way he tears around his pasture. But then I'll see just a bit of hind end wobble or slip, and know that if that were carried through, he would go down, and how do you predict when that's going to happen?

I think that my job now is to just adjust to him not being there in a particular way in my life - he's ok, and he LOVES his babies (and they love him back), and I have other horses to ride that keep ME busy. I think the biggest problem for me was not enough mourning time before I started riding another horse. I should have taken a couple of months before starting someone else, but that's just how things work. Part of the problem IS that he's separating from me, and not following me around as much - I have to see that as a healthy process, rather than something to be upset about.

Thanks for everyone's perspective on this - I figured there were other people out there with retirees who could help me :D.

nappingonthejob

May. 7, 2009, 10:29 AM

That story was going through my mind as I was reading this thread. It was the last story in CW Anderson's book about different breeds.

Marguerite Henry's "Album of Horses", actually.

ccoronios

May. 7, 2009, 10:49 AM

Yes - it was Marguerite's book - I could picture it, but the wrong name(s) came to mind.

And slc - you certainly brought up some good points - the 'big picture' I'd considered when making my comments about possibilities, but your expanded knowledge filled in a lot of the details of which I was not aware. Definitely would not want to expose horse or human to additional trauma/stress/injury.

'moody - good for you, realizing the potential danger. Sounds like a nice big pasture and a lot of love are the right prescription for your buddy!

Carol

rraven326

Oct. 7, 2009, 08:41 PM

My old retired guy was always depressed when we went to shows without him. He would eat less and stand at the gate even though most of his turnout buddies were with him. So, I started taking him to shows and having one of my students hand walk him around a couple times per day or stand at the ring. He jumps on the trailer and loves the attention. I really think our retired horses just miss being fawned over and being busy. Not dissimilar to retires and older parents.

slp2

Oct. 8, 2009, 09:56 PM

I have changed my mares routine recently. I have a 3 yo filly on trial. Because she is on trial, we needed to make arrangements for her to be in a private turnout. As a result, my 15 yo mare is going out 24/7 for a couple weeks and at night, the 3 yo is in her stall (heavens!!) When I had my mare in the cross ties, the other boarders were saying, "Oh look at her staring down that filly in her stall." Not really. She was probably just wondering how much food that baby was consuming that she couldn't eat! She has also had a huge work change--I usually ride 5-6 days a week and my vet has told me to give her 2 weeks off because we made changed her angles some in her feet. She definitely seems to wonder why I am not saddling her up--but is happy to go back out into the pasture after a short grooming session (and this is a horse that has a terrific work ethic). But she thinks it's pretty cool to go out with her BFF overnight (girls slumber party!) and be able to mosey out to eat grass whenever she feels like it. They adapt.

There was one horse at our barn that came running in from the pasture when his owner called to him. It was cute, but yet kind of pathetic. He was in this lovely, huge pasture, with his horse buddies, but he would come galloping up to the gate. Needless to say, he was a horse that never seemed to have any self confidence and "the elevator didn't go all the way to the top" in his case. So he just really didn't enjoy life that much and we think that his owner was the only relief from the demons in his mind. ;)

slc2

Oct. 9, 2009, 05:52 AM

How did you get your interest in Ottowa and New York Asian escorts?

thatmoody

Oct. 9, 2009, 06:56 AM

Ugh. That's a particularly annoying spammer.

I do have a funny anthromorphic story about Elli, though. My trainer was giving a lesson the other day to a couple of more advanced students (thank god it wasn't the kids!) and I was washing Elli after doing some ground work and lunging him. He was loose while I washed him, when he looked up, ran into the arena (someone had forgotten to close the gate) and joined the lesson! He trotted right around a couple of times till we caught him, but we were all laughing like crazy! He wasn't panicky or out of control, just joining in :D.

He's not doing as well as I'd like, though - I have to increase his work a little and see how he does. He's a little more unsteady; I didn't really notice it till we went to do his feet the other day, and he's starting to have more balance problems. I'll up his Vitamin E and see if that helps, and add more fitness work. It's pretty obvious that he'll never be ridden again, but I want to keep him as healthy as possible.

cyberbay

Oct. 9, 2009, 10:09 AM

I don't think we're anthropomorphizing. Maybe posters mean 'reading into'? IME, species -- well, at least the ones we know well (cats, dogs, horses, etc.) -- possess the same pool of emotional feelings and have likes and dislikes. And that we are all, in the end, self-serving. We interact with our friends, etc., or those we find enjoyable, b/c they fill or serve a need. Whether we want to admit it or not. I think animals do the same. A long-time relationship builds trust and a bond, and that's why a dog will sit more readily with its owner than the owner's friend. That owner has met the needs of the dog, with reliable food, shelter, and acceptance (a big one) and if those are the high priorities of the dog, the dog hangs around a lot. Horses have access (group turnout, stalled next to each other) to their own kind than do a lot of our home-kept cats and dogs, so they get their needs met by their own kind much of the time.

Also think that most retired horses would like a pleasurable routine to continue. And that includes some light riding (good for minimizing arthritis pain, another worry) or some exercise. Like human retirees, lots of freedom is initially enjoyable, but after a year or so of it, some nice engagement and feeling a part of things seem to rise to the top. Everyone seems happier that way...

2Below

Oct. 9, 2009, 11:04 AM

OP, you can't help the way you feel. It's OK. And my TB absolutely watches me when I pull another horse out of the field and it's not him. He loves his job, I believe he loves me (or some horse equivalent of love) and he thinks it's always his turn. Also, TB's generally don't relish retirement like other horses. They typically started working when other horses are still running around playing, it's hard for them to get used to not having a job. I don't think your guy is mad or sad or resentful, he's probably just thinking it's his turn. I highly recommend reading "Animals in Translation" to help you with what you're going through and keeping your guy in a routine, like bring him in first, groom him, feed him treats, then ride the others. That would be his new job, and I'm sure he'd be thrilled with it!

narcisco

Oct. 9, 2009, 12:02 PM

I have totally revised my opinion on what horses think, do and feel because of my big Friesian.

We have latches on our runs that the ablest person can't undo. But, Bram can. We had to put a bullsnap on his gate. That, he can't undo.

So, he decided to undo the snap on the mare's stall next to him, and let her out. SOMEHOW he convinced her to leave her stall, go to the stack of hay, and drag a bale of hay in front of his stall.

When I arrived to feed, there they were, both eating together from the bale of hay she had fetched for him. Unbelievable. Organized.

In another scenario more similar to yours, my mustang gelding, Flash, would hang over the fence and watch every step of my ride on my old schoolmaster. After watching for sometime, suddenly Flash started doing Spanish walk as I was leading him. Not pawing or striking, but the same Spanish walk I had been working on with my Andalusian.

Flash was really jealous of Chicho. One day when I had Chicho out handgrazing, Flash broke through the wall of stall (!), charged out and attacked. It was everything I could do to break them up. There were strong herd dynamics and strong feelings at work.

I disagree with slc that a horse following a human in a herd means the horse doesn't have enough horse companionship. Our horses go out in complimentary herds daily. They go out with their friends, on grass. But my horses will leave their friends and follow me when I walk the fenceline. They want something and it's not food, turn in or more horses. They like me, they like work.

My point is none of us really know what a horse is thinking, we certainly don't know what the OP's horse is thinking, and we might be really surprised if we did.

thatmoody

Oct. 9, 2009, 12:10 PM

Yes, he's in with a mare and a bunch of foals, so he has quite sympatico companionship. He plays with the foals quite vigorously, and seems to enjoy himself and get enough exercise that way. What he seems to miss, though, is the interaction, so we have to work with him at least 2x3 times a week, and even then that isn't really enough for him. He had a great work ethic and I rode him at least 5-6 x a week and we WORKED when we rode, even when we trail rode - he was as fit as an eventing horse. But I don't really have time for more, even though I'm only seriously riding one horse now. My daughter's old horse has a bit of seedy toe, and I'm back working full time, so my time is a LOT more limited, and I'm sad about that, too (not to mention that I still miss riding both him and Mac - come to think of it, I've had a lot of losses this year!). I'm happy though because I'll have enough money to show this year :). I'll probably haul him along to shows some, too, just to keep the stallions company, as he's the only one who can tolerate them.

Kyzteke

Oct. 9, 2009, 12:28 PM

I come from a cowboy perspective where you had incredibly cheap horses, but they were yours, and you took great pride in making diamonds out of coal.

I come from that perspective as well, at least I did when I was younger (raised in AZ) and now live out west.

And most "cowboys" I know/knew don't retire a horse to a lush pasture when it can't be ridden anymore....especially if it's a younger horse. They sell 'em or shoot 'em.

So good for you for doing it differently.

Otherwise can't really add anything that hasn't been said by others. Of course you are sad, disappointed and probably alittle guilty ('cause people, UNLIKE HORSES like to do that to themselves) and COTH is good place to come for "an ear." Almost everyone of us knows what's it's like to love an animal and have them take a piece of our heart.

But the bottom line is that Life is often sad & disappointing and even more often it doesn't give us what we want. No matter if you subscribe to the belief "When one door closes another opens," or if you simply believe "It is as it is..." you still have to deal with it and accept it...that's just Life.

Best of luck...the thing I always hang onto during times like this is "This too shall pass." And it always does.

Tif_Ann

Oct. 9, 2009, 12:46 PM

There was one horse at our barn that came running in from the pasture when his owner called to him. It was cute, but yet kind of pathetic. He was in this lovely, huge pasture, with his horse buddies, but he would come galloping up to the gate. Needless to say, he was a horse that never seemed to have any self confidence and "the elevator didn't go all the way to the top" in his case. So he just really didn't enjoy life that much and we think that his owner was the only relief from the demons in his mind. ;)

hmmm well, my boy does this for me ... and he is far from not confident. He's always been a bit of a loner, having been a stallion and feral until he was 7ish, and he's nearly completely blind ... but he lives in pasture 24/7 and is very content out there. But he also likes the attention and coming in and comes running when I call him. Ok, sometimes he walks ... but he comes nearly 95% of the time. And he really only does it for me, consistently ... my sister just called in fact, and said she even went out to his pasture with a grain bucket (something I NEVER do) and he wouldn't come running for her.

Maybe in your case it was a "pathetic horse" ... in mine, I know Pi loves the attention and he trusts me more than nearly anything else. I figure part of it is the fact he is blind - he can "relax" a little bit around me, knowing he can trust me to "be his eyes".

I know I'm taking your comments a little personally, and I apologize, but it just seems really judgmental to think that way just because a horse comes running for their owner. Does that mean those horses that run away from their owners in pasture are the opposite - full of confidence, loving life, and not "pathetic"?

slp2

Oct. 9, 2009, 09:20 PM

Sorry Tif Ann--I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. My horse (as many other boarder horses) happily come up to me and their owners when we go out into the pasture--not pathetic. I have never owned a horse that was hard to catch. But this horse was frantic and worried all the time--and would run up almost "desperate" to get to his owner. Unfortunately, he just wasn't ever easy to live with (dangerous at times), and couldn't fit in socially with the other horses. That's an extreme example, I know. I feel that "balanced" horses enjoy working, being with their owners, and being out with other horses too. Those are the ones that are able to adapt to new routines--although they can still relish grooming, attention, carrots, etc.--I don't think they mull about it like we might think they do. My mare does indeed trust me more than she trusts others--I know several people that have handled her when I am out of town and was told that she was much more antsy around them. But, if those same people handled her as often as I do, she would relax with them too. I think it's really cool that your blind horse can trust you to be his "eyes".

I am always amazed at how animals who suffer a disability (such as loss of a leg) just "move on" and adapt to their new situation. Much better than most people. They don't seem to dwell on it much. They are amazingly resilient.