baby's first saddle -- what type saddle?

[staceyk]

Hi,

My coming 3 year old 16.1 hanoverian gelding has been wearing a surcingle for about 5 months. I've recently started saddling him, 3X with a Crosby Prix de Nation and 3X with a Black Country dressage saddle. He hasn't really bucked but he started out "hunchy" through the back with both saddles.

At this point he seems used to the jumping saddle but the dressage saddle still makes him hunchy. When lunging in the dressage saddle he stretches down far more, looks like he is trying to get comfortable.

My question is, should I skip the dressage saddle for now? What type of saddle do people use to start their horses?

[Equibrit]

A beat up German all purpose with a deep seat that seems to fit almost everything, made by Courbette. Ugly as all get out but you can stay in it and not worry about hurting it.

[Kaelurus]

The oldest, ugliest, most beat-up saddle you own. Baby's aren't known for being nice to their tack... ;)

Once you're ready to get in the saddle, make it something you're comfortable in, with a bucking-strap, just in case! You may not need it, but it sure is comforting...

[staceyk]

So the hunchiness is normal and I shouldn't worry about it? My horse I mean. That was my main question. I'd prefer my dressage saddle but will find SOMETHING to ride in if I have to.

[Kaelurus]

Honestly, for his first longeing lessons, I wouldn't be so concerned. You certainly don't want to put something on him that is obviously too big or small, but if it appears to fit relatively well, just go with it. He's going to grow and muscle-up significantly in the first few months anyway, so getting a saddle to "fit" him will be quite a chore. You'd have to readjust too often for it to be practical. Just make sure its not pinching anywhere. I'm sure there will be people who disagree, but this has been my experience at least. The saddle we use is probably 30 years old, and has the leather worn clean off the cantle :cool:

[Leena]

Hi Stacey,

No it is not normal that outchy feeling. I recall riding my big Canadian in an inappropriate saddle and he refused to move forward.

Very soon I did call a saddle fitter and end up buying another saddle. What I do now is this; I use a stick and I take mesurements of the shoulders. Then I see if my saddle will fit.
I can already tell you one is going to be too wide for one of the fillies.

They need the best experience !

Good luck and happy starting !

[SaddleFitterVA]

Use one that fits the horse, then, try to find one that fits you too.

Brand is irrelevant, what is relevant is that the horse has well-fitted tack.

If a beat up, old, ugly saddle fits, then by all means, use it, so long is it doesn't have a broken tree.

If you don't know which one fits, then find a saddle fitter to help you choose.

[pintopiaffe]

I think it's crucial for early saddle fit to be correct. Yes, they grow and change tons, but IME, it colours how they react to tack for a long, long time, possibly forever.

I prefer treeless, or something light and wide enough that I can pad it up with a nice sheepskin or fluffy pad and gel pad for them to have room for the muscles to grow and develop. Nothing wrong with Wintec, cheap, old, used... provided it meets the criteria of a bit too wide and I can pad it up. It must NOT impinge the scapular, which unfortunately, on *my* particular greenies, Wintecs do. :( It's a shame as I really love the new Wintecs. I really think this is key, since the saddle will often slip forward on a greenbean.

I also prefer something with at least a VSD flap, as I want my stirrups a couple holes shorter than dressage length when I first get on. Heck, I really like starting them in a big ol' western saddle, but I shrunk out of my beloved Crates and don't have one any more. :(

Bottom line for me is it *must* fit the horse. I won't compromise there. Yeah, it sucks because you know what fits them today probably won't fit by the end of summer... but I just think it's terribly counterproductive to use something that doesn't fit.

[staceyk]

I'm not a saddle fitter but the saddle isn't obviously ill fitting. It doesn't rock or bridge, and both saddles are a medium tree. The dressage saddle is 18" but he is a pretty big horse. If I thought the saddle didn't fit I wouldn't be using it :-)

What i'm hearing (between the lines maybe) is that the hunchiness is absolutely not normal or expected and that I should look at saddle fit. Am I right?

I'm asking around about other saddles I could borrow while getting him started.

[Leena]

Stacey,

One thing maybe to check: make sur you are saddling behing the shoulders and if you put the saddle nude on him and with your fingers you might find some tight spots.

Also check your girth; I have seen more disconfort coming from the girth.

Asking a saddle fitter is a very good idea; at least you will have the hole picture.

Good luck !

[Equibrit]

I doubt that he is feeling the consequences of an ill fitting saddle if you haven't mounted him yet. He's probably just doing what comes naturally and trying to get that thing off his back. Give him time to get familiar with the feeling.

[egontoast]

It could be that he is just reacting to the different feeling of the girth rather than the saddle. You could lunge him in both until he is used to them. If the saddles fit, he ought to work through it. Sometimes it's easier to get through that WTF stage on the lungeline.

[Demeter]

My horse's trainer starts youngsters in western saddles ... maybe because they have such generic fits and can be padded up. They get used to the extra weight and leather and seem to feel secure and safe very quickly. And it's easy to find western saddles that aren't too expensive and fit the wide-load warmbloods nicely.

[Petstorejunkie]

I all honesty, being a goober is normal for the first few tackings. as long as the saddle looks balanced and you cannot find anything terrible about the fit, just encourage him to move forward on the lunge with it. He's used to the surcingle only applying pressure for a few inches of his spine, he just has to get used to his whole back.
I start horses in either my pos indian leather all purpose (which has a fantastic balance point, go figure) it's a regent. or a thornhill protrainer plain flap cc which is a wide tree. OR i use a bareback pad

[JB]

No offense meant, but far far too many people do not know how to really tell if a saddle fits. So yes, I would be assuming saddle fit is a big issue here.

Whatever the color or style of the saddle, none of that matters - all that matters is whether it fits the horse.

Now, once you get in the saddle, then it *also* matters whether it fits you as well. If not, you can cause balance or pressure point issues that a youngster might not appreciate.

Which Black Country saddle were you using? Do you have pictures of each saddle on him? A BC could easily have a different shape to the back panels than a Crosby.

[FriesianX]

For a dressage horse, when they are first actually RIDDEN, I do like an all purpose type saddle, something to keep the weight off the back a bit. In lunging work, I'll use either an all purpose or a Wintec dressage saddle. Some horses are humpy at first, others just don't care. I like the saddle to fit well - no pinching, etc. Many jumping saddles (such as the PDN) are pretty narrow, so keep that in mind, it could be too tight in his shoulders or back. But he's only had a saddle on a handful of times, he may just be a humpy type horse for a while.

When I send my guys out to be started, they go in a western saddle the first few times - as already mentioned, a nice 'general fit', but they switch pretty quickly to an old all purpose.

If you are unsure of saddle fit, is there someone nearby you can ask? Maybe an area trainer or saddle fitter? Even if it costs a few $, still worth it inthe long run. And ask them to show you what they do to check saddle fit, so you can check as you use other saddles on him. Oh, the joys of young horses:lol:

[Bronte]

I have used a Wintec AP for the last 20 years. It is a medium tree, light weight and they have all been great in it! And if it gets damaged, I don't care!

[merrygoround]

I would go for an all purpose in order to stay light on his back, however it must fit him. As long as you feel secure in it, your comfort is secondary. ;)

[angel]

Hunchiness is normal when just starting a horse. If you really want to see them hunch, attach a crupper to your surcingle!:lol: You can have a wonderfully fitting saddle, and the horse will still be a little cold-backed when they are just learning. Be sure that the saddle is a secure one for you, however, because when you first begin sitting on it, the horse will be moving around like a drunken sailor!:yes:

[staceyk]

This weekend a friend is bringing me her old stubben and we'll try that, then maybe I can borrow a western saddle from another friend. Can't hurt to mix it up.

A number of people seem to be posting about starting babies. Interesting reading!

[BBowen]

I ended up having to buy a Wintec for my 3 y.o. last year. Was hoping that I could use her mom's saddles (Amerigo Deep Jumping Saddle or a Keiffer Wein dressage saddle, both with medium trees). Unfortunately, both saddles were too small and pinched behind the shoulder. She was having none of it. Got the Wintec close contact and put in the MW gullet and she loves it. No so comfortable for me, but at this stage, her comfort is what matters. She is a coming 4 y.o. Dutch warmblood, 16.2hh.

[JB]

For a dressage horse, when they are first actually RIDDEN, I do like an all purpose type saddle, something to keep the weight off the back a bit.
I'm curious why this is specific to a "dressage horse"?

Many jumping saddles (such as the PDN) are pretty narrow, so keep that in mind, it could be too tight in his shoulders or back.
Plenty of Dressage saddles are narrow as well ;)

[tarragon]

Most dressage saddles have longer tree points than the average jumping saddle, so if your dressage saddle is placed too far forward it would be more restrictive through the shoulder. My saddle fitter says that most dressage saddles are placed too far forward.

[staceyk]

Hi,

I hadn't realized that about the points -- it explains why jumping saddles seem more able to fit a variety of horses.

BTW, Tarragon, this horse is by DeLaurentis (isn't Olivia also?).

SEK

[tarragon]

Yep, Olivia's a De Laurentis also. I think our two are almost the same age and it sounds like they are about the same size. And both redheads :winkgrin:

FWIW, the first saddle I put on her was a old Pessoa jumping saddle. The only time she even seemed to notice it was when she first trotted, the flaps popped a little and she just looked back like "what is all that racket?"

It was a little different when the trainer I sent her to tried his big western saddle on her though, she had a serious hump in her back with that big honking thing on her, and while she didn't buck very hard, she crow-hopped around in the canter for several days. Unfortunately she pulled a muscle playing around in her paddock, so she's on a little break in her training until she's all better.

I think it's fairly normal for youngsters to be a bit cold-backed and even buck for a while until they get used to wearing a saddle. I just concentrate on sending them forward on the lunge line if they start to buck.