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GPSM
May. 4, 2009, 01:31 PM
I am an amateur rider who has been asked by a barnmate to ride their young horse for them. This is not really a training situation; this is more of a "keep the horse going so no one gets killed" situation (yes, my skills are adequate to handle this horse). Barnmate will be paying me for riding this horse, but I don't know what to charge, because once again, this is not really a training situation, and in terms of skill level, I am not professional level. Thoughts?

Yes, I am aware that this will make me a professional. I am not competing any time in the near future, nor am I a member of USEF, so this is not a problem. Please do not turn this into a "shamateur" discussion, as this is not the situation.

dghunter
May. 4, 2009, 01:32 PM
As a junior, my old trainer would pay me between $15-$20 to hop a horse and hack it around a bit.

TB Fan
May. 4, 2009, 01:42 PM
A few summers ago, I needed my TB exercised one extra day a week for his sanity and my safety. Work was crazy and I couldn't work in the extra day. I paid one of the barn kids $10 a ride. I knew the rides were quick and not training rides so I felt it was a fair amount at the time.

used2
May. 4, 2009, 01:44 PM
There are plenty of qualified juniors and amateurs who would do it for the experience.

The going rate from a pro isn't a help to you in determining a fair value.

In your position you might want to ask yourself what is it worth to the horse's owner.

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 4, 2009, 01:58 PM
There are plenty of qualified juniors and amateurs who would do it for the experience.

In your position you might want to ask yourself what is it worth to the horse's owner.

That depends on where the OP is. There aren't alot of (non-pro) people around here I would want to ride my horse, for example. I know the BO where I used to board would pay different boarders $10 to work some horses in training, but that was lunging (yes the owners knew the BO did this). I've heard people around here offer others $20 for rides on young stock that need mileage (i.e. not training per se).

I'd go a step further and just ask the horse's owner what they are willing to pay.

cleartheoxer
May. 4, 2009, 01:58 PM
I guess it kind of annoys me that you would accept payment. I mean, you said you are not a professional and your "skills are adequate", so that tells me that you're an okay rider. Why not just ride the horse and get the experience for both you and him at no charge? I know it takes your time but why does everyone have to be paid for everything they do these days? If if were my daughter we were talking about, I'd tell her to be happy that the owner of the horse thinks she's good enough to get on it and not to expect payment. But that's just me. You can't put a price on experience.

mysandi
May. 4, 2009, 02:03 PM
I have someone ride my horse twice a week for no cost; she's a much better rider than I am so it works out well for both of us. She gets to ride for free and I get free training.

gg4918
May. 4, 2009, 02:08 PM
I thought that the general rule was that if you get paid for riding or training (no matter what the circumstance or amount) that you are no longer an amatuer. I've turned down money just because of this reason.

meupatdoes
May. 4, 2009, 02:10 PM
I thought that the general rule was that if you get paid for riding or training (no matter what the circumstance or amount) that you are no longer an amatuer. I've turned down money just because of this reason.

Did you read the original post all the way through?

gg4918
May. 4, 2009, 02:15 PM
Did you read the original post all the way through?

OOPS No I didnt!! I'm in class and tend to skim over things. Nevermind!

chukkerchild
May. 4, 2009, 02:25 PM
Haha this reminds me of when I was about 10 and my mother's friend (a very good rider about 25 at the time) said that she wanted to start looking for horses to ride and was wondering what to charge... I misunderstood her and said "I'll let you ride my pony for free anytime you want!" :lol: She was not impressed by that and I was suitably embarrassed.

I'd say $10 a ride, if you ride for an hour (which is generous) thats above minimum. My old coach charged $40 for a training ride, so I think 1/4 of that for an exercising ride seems appropriate. Maybe $12

Beethoven
May. 4, 2009, 02:26 PM
I guess it kind of annoys me that you would accept payment. I mean, you said you are not a professional and your "skills are adequate", so that tells me that you're an okay rider. Why not just ride the horse and get the experience for both you and him at no charge? I know it takes your time but why does everyone have to be paid for everything they do these days? If if were my daughter we were talking about, I'd tell her to be happy that the owner of the horse thinks she's good enough to get on it and not to expect payment. But that's just me. You can't put a price on experience.

Definatly have to agree with that.:yes:

Tini Sea Soldier
May. 4, 2009, 02:32 PM
I am an amateur rider who has been asked by a barnmate to ride their young horse for them. This is not really a training situation; this is more of a "keep the horse going so no one gets killed" situation (yes, my skills are adequate to handle this horse). Barnmate will be paying me for riding this horse, but I don't know what to charge, because once again, this is not really a training situation, and in terms of skill level, I am not professional level. Thoughts?

Yes, I am aware that this will make me a professional. I am not competing any time in the near future, nor am I a member of USEF, so this is not a problem. Please do not turn this into a "shamateur" discussion, as this is not the situation.

I hate bills... so if I had my own horse at the same place... I might ask them to pick up my shoeing bill for my horse...if I'm only riding the greenie once or twice a week.
If I was riding the horse 3-5 days a week and doing more training (i.e. schooling over jumps, lunging, etc)... maybe ask them to pick up shoeing bill and pay for a lesson on my own horse once per month with my trainer.

Gwendolyn
May. 4, 2009, 02:41 PM
As a person that started charging to ride horses when I was 15 (these were NOT show horses, but backyard/green horses that simply needed exercise rides), I agree with the OP about wanting to charge. Yes, you learn something from every horse you sit on, but giving a greenie mileage isn't necessarily a huge boost to one's riding resume. If this was a seasoned show horse, I would say do it for the experience, but it sounds like this is a greenie/problem horse that just needs someone to sit on it a few times a week.

When I was younger (I'm not sure how old the OP is, just giving an example), I charged between $10-$20 a ride (I did this for a few years, so prices increased as my experience increased). When I officially started "training," I believe I charged $25.

I would say between $10-$20 is a fair price, depending on your experience. I would also factor in travel and gas expenses, if you have to ride the horse on days that you don't plan on being at the barn.

Czar
May. 4, 2009, 02:44 PM
I guess it kind of annoys me that you would accept payment. I mean, you said you are not a professional and your "skills are adequate", so that tells me that you're an okay rider. Why not just ride the horse and get the experience for both you and him at no charge? I know it takes your time but why does everyone have to be paid for everything they do these days? If if were my daughter we were talking about, I'd tell her to be happy that the owner of the horse thinks she's good enough to get on it and not to expect payment. But that's just me. You can't put a price on experience.

And it kind of annoys me when owners think I should ride for free b/c they are giving me "experience". And my absolute favourite is when the horse is green as grass or rank to boot!

It really depends on the situation & persons involved with this sort of arrangement - as in, does the OP have nothing else to ride, is the horse in question well-broke, is the OP a decent rider who will improve the horse etc....

Beethoven
May. 4, 2009, 03:01 PM
And it kind of annoys me when owners think I should ride for free b/c they are giving me "experience". And my absolute favourite is when the horse is green as grass or rank to boot!

It really depends on the situation & persons involved with this sort of arrangement - as in, does the OP have nothing else to ride, is the horse in question well-broke, is the OP a decent rider who will improve the horse etc....


Well then don't ride the horse if they don't want to pay you. Pretty easy in my mind. I am sorry but I would never pay anyone but a pro with years of experince to ride my horse. Sorry, but unless its your job then no way are you getting paid. Then again I would never be in this situation. Truthfully I would rather my horse sit and do nothing than having people ride him. Its better for both of us.

Giddy-up
May. 4, 2009, 03:10 PM
And it kind of annoys me when owners think I should ride for free b/c they are giving me "experience".

But you are a trainer, correct? So in your situation, yes I see it to be annoying cause it's your profession. The OP is not a pro nor do they wish to be one.

OP--I guess it depends on the situation. Is the owner going to groom/tack so all you do is hop on/off? Are you doing all the care yourself? With a young horse--how long do you plan to ride on average? 20 minutes? 40 minutes? All that I guess would factor into you figuring out what your time is worth.

heartinrye
May. 4, 2009, 03:13 PM
When I was a junior I was asked to ride a horse and jumped at the idea, only after did the mom try to pay me, I refused since I actually had fun riding the horse, plus when people at the barn heard- they were all lining up! Lots of experience for me, and convenience for those who were busy!

Czar
May. 4, 2009, 03:28 PM
But you are a trainer, correct? So in your situation, yes I see it to be annoying cause it's your profession. The OP is not a pro nor do they wish to be one.

OP--I guess it depends on the situation. Is the owner going to groom/tack so all you do is hop on/off? Are you doing all the care yourself? With a young horse--how long do you plan to ride on average? 20 minutes? 40 minutes? All that I guess would factor into you figuring out what your time is worth.

Yes my situation is a little different...I'm an in-between - I have my pro status b/c I get paid to ride and I teach a few lessons but I don't actually have my own business nor do I ride full-time...anymore. I suppose this is a bit of a sore spot for me since as a young professional, there were many times owners thought I should jump at the chance to ride their beastly horses who had barely been handled or who had been cast off from another trainer b/c of their unrideability simply b/c I was young.

And before this thread takes a wrong turn....it would have been a different story for me had I been offered a half decent mount even if super green as I could have used such an opportunity to make a name for myself & would have taken full advantage of that. I DID ride lots of rank beasts as I knew you had to start somewhere but at some point, riding all the bad ones starts to give you the WRONG sort of reputation, not to mention, takes a toll on your riding.

tbhuntergirl
May. 4, 2009, 03:29 PM
My horse is being leased out right now, so I don't really have anything to ride. I'd definitely ride it for free!

But even when I had my horse, if someone asked me to ride their horse for a certain period of time, I'd do it for free if I had time for it. But I'm the type that really values experience. :)

GPSM
May. 4, 2009, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the thoughts and input. I really appreciate it.

To clarify a couple of points: this is a young, green horse who is very big and knows it. Keeping the horse in (light) work is in everyone's best interest. The owner has asked me to keep her going, and offered to pay. I will be doing the grooming, tacking, etc. I am supposed to determine what to charge and let her know.

Normally, I would not expect or accept payment, but I have two horses of my own and am currently working only part-time, as my contract for my full-time job was not renewed (lack of funding). I am actively searching for other work, but until I am back in full-time work, I need to supplement my income in any way I can.

I am in my mid-twenties, and have been riding for the majority of those years (about 2/3).

I was thinking in the range of $15, so it is good to see that based on many of your thoughts, I am not far off.

Petstorejunkie
May. 4, 2009, 03:55 PM
Ammys i had exercising for me were paid in lessons (i was a trainer/instructor at the time). i personally would not pay for an ammy to ride my horse. i've heard of ammys charging $10 a ride

Mav226
May. 4, 2009, 06:59 PM
I guess it kind of annoys me that you would accept payment. I mean, you said you are not a professional and your "skills are adequate", so that tells me that you're an okay rider. Why not just ride the horse and get the experience for both you and him at no charge? I know it takes your time but why does everyone have to be paid for everything they do these days? If if were my daughter we were talking about, I'd tell her to be happy that the owner of the horse thinks she's good enough to get on it and not to expect payment. But that's just me. You can't put a price on experience.

The OP is not a junior. Nor does she say she's wanting to do this for experience.

Would you habitually mow your neighbor's lawn for free? How about wash their car? I certainly enjoy mowing my lawn every once in a while, but I'm not about to do the whole darn block for the "experience."

The OP's time and skills (pro or not) are worth something. Obviously, the owner feels comfortable with her abilities regardless of her non-pro status.

I should mention that I've seen many many amateur riders who are far superior to some "professionals"...

Equibrit
May. 4, 2009, 07:06 PM
I wonder how you are going to ride a young horse without training it !

maclaydreams
May. 4, 2009, 07:14 PM
As a person that started charging to ride horses when I was 15 (these were NOT show horses, but backyard/green horses that simply needed exercise rides), I agree with the OP about wanting to charge. Yes, you learn something from every horse you sit on, but giving a greenie mileage isn't necessarily a huge boost to one's riding resume. If this was a seasoned show horse, I would say do it for the experience, but it sounds like this is a greenie/problem horse that just needs someone to sit on it a few times a week.

When I was younger (I'm not sure how old the OP is, just giving an example), I charged between $10-$20 a ride (I did this for a few years, so prices increased as my experience increased). When I officially started "training," I believe I charged $25.

I would say between $10-$20 is a fair price, depending on your experience. I would also factor in travel and gas expenses, if you have to ride the horse on days that you don't plan on being at the barn.

I am on the fence about this issue, I find whether or not is appropriate to charge varies by the situation (and at 15, I find it very inappropriate). I would normally say that for everyone who think they're important enough to be paid there's ten people out there interested in the 'experience', and that thanks can be expressed in other ways that can still be financially beneficial (I feel more comfortable receiving a new bridle than a cheque). The OP sounds like she has a very legitimate reason to charge and a very reasonable rate.

But isn't your argument fairly backwards? If, for the sake of debate, someone is interested in riding horses for the 'experience', a greenie/problem horse WILL be a much better experience than hacking around a seasoned show horse, as pleasurable as the latter might be. I find this saying that one would only be interested in doing a job for free that's fairly easy or enjoyable to do. That's fine, I completely understand- I would love to hack around seasoned show horses! But if a rider is truly out looking for the "experience", learning to ride a quirky horse will, in the long run, improve their riding far more than a presumably made show horse. When people say that they are doing something for experience, I don't find it means they intend to ad it to their riding resume, but moreso that they are learning skills that will benefit them in the long run as a rider and horseperson. Ironing out problems on greener horse will teach you how to iron out the same problems on the higher quality horses when you've gotten wherever experience is supposed to bring you!

Beau Cheval
May. 4, 2009, 07:22 PM
Honestly, it is my opinion, no matter the age of the rider one should be grateful for the opportunity and leave it at that. Remember, people pay loads of money to get to ride, so IMO it is more than enough to get to ride a horse for free. I do understand that adults have jobs so time is money etc. But I'd keep it low, in the $15-20 range, since for not that much more someone with professional status could be riding.

Equitate.
May. 4, 2009, 07:26 PM
$10-15 is about right. an old BO paid me $12 a ride.
IMO, experience is valuable, but so is time. Nothing wrong with getting paid in this case.

Long Spot
May. 4, 2009, 07:32 PM
I wonder how you are going to ride a young horse without training it !

An excellent point. Since with young horses especially, consistency equals training...fill in the blank.

On the other note...

I may have missed it, but how many days a week are you planning on hacking the horse? That would be my deciding factor. If it's more than once , I feel $15 is too high per ride. OP, you've stated you're not a pro. A talented ammy with years of experience, yes. But not a pro. So in essence, you really are doing this person more of a favor, than performing a job, yes? Performing a favor leads me to feel that gas money and a burger or a gift card per week for dinner would be more in line with what is actually going on.

Does this barn friend have a trainer? What does she/he charge? I'd be very careful about possibly stepping on toes with the trainer. If you end up charging close to what the trainer would charge (for a hack, not a training ride since you've stated you will only be hacking), you've entered hazy waters and might end up persona non grata with that trainer. Inadvertently doing a training ride instead of a hack could end up with the same outcome, regardless of the price.

Ibex
May. 4, 2009, 07:33 PM
$15-$20 around here.

As to the OPs skills - she's not a new rider, nor did she post her resume here, so there's no point in analysing the "what-ifs" of the situation. It doesn't sound like a horse that she'd ride just for her own personal development or fun, so why shouldn't she charge?

Gwendolyn
May. 4, 2009, 09:27 PM
I am on the fence about this issue, I find whether or not is appropriate to charge varies by the situation (and at 15, I find it very inappropriate). I would normally say that for everyone who think they're important enough to be paid there's ten people out there interested in the 'experience', and that thanks can be expressed in other ways that can still be financially beneficial (I feel more comfortable receiving a new bridle than a cheque). The OP sounds like she has a very legitimate reason to charge and a very reasonable rate.

But isn't your argument fairly backwards? If, for the sake of debate, someone is interested in riding horses for the 'experience', a greenie/problem horse WILL be a much better experience than hacking around a seasoned show horse, as pleasurable as the latter might be. I find this saying that one would only be interested in doing a job for free that's fairly easy or enjoyable to do. That's fine, I completely understand- I would love to hack around seasoned show horses! But if a rider is truly out looking for the "experience", learning to ride a quirky horse will, in the long run, improve their riding far more than a presumably made show horse. When people say that they are doing something for experience, I don't find it means they intend to ad it to their riding resume, but moreso that they are learning skills that will benefit them in the long run as a rider and horseperson. Ironing out problems on greener horse will teach you how to iron out the same problems on the higher quality horses when you've gotten wherever experience is supposed to bring you!

For the sake of debate, charging at 15 is NOT inappropriate when the person charging is a much better rider than the owner, the person charging is teaching the horse skills that improve it's value, and the person charging causes the horse to be sold quicker and for more money than if the horse was ridden by just the owner/sat in the field and did nothing.

My point being, that just because you are not a "trainer" does not mean that you don't know what you're doing. Maybe the OP has had a lot of experience with greenies, and therefore does not need that "experience" as a rider. Maybe she would benefit by riding a made horse, and being able to work on herself. Time IS worth something, and if the OP is providing a service to the owner (exercise, training, whatever), she should be compensated.

Mac123
May. 4, 2009, 10:15 PM
To me the status of "professional" or "amateur" only really factors into the equation if the situation deals with an amateur trying to get around the amateur rules.

Remember, "professional" or "amateur" is only a status stating whether a person accepts money for riding or teaching. It would be nice to think that the status also designated skill level, but alas, that is not the case. I've seen professional riders who are professional in the technical sense but are such poor riders I would practically pay them NOT to ride my horse. And I've seen amateur riders who ride so well I would beg, plead, and steal to get them to sit on my horse. Alois Pollman-Schweckhorst was an amatuer for quite some time before turning pro; he was a school teacher who also happened to be an international competitor. And let's not forget Steinkraus himself was an amateur.

The more important issue, I think is what the value of the service being performed versus the benefit received. I'm in that vague land like Czar where I both charge and ride for free depending on the situation. Some times it would be innapropriate to ask for payment because it is valuable experience (for instance, riding for a trainer where I was getting free schooling during the rides). Other times, I have accepted payment when either my time was just as valuable as the experience riding or when the horse was a nut job and even "hacking" was either going to require risk or training.

Also, I'm a firm believer that every ride improves or "de-proves" a horse. Every ride. Even hacking. Paying an experienced rider to do a good job and to at least make sure training doesn't go downhill, if not actually improve the horse, doesn't seem that unreasonable.

If a co-worker asks you to cover a shift, would you do it for free? You're getting experience in your field, right? Yes. And sometimes it's valuable enough to warrant doing it for free. But most often, it requires time, effort, and work and deserves compensation.

I have been paid between $10-$25 depending on the situation and my experience at that time. Once I charged $15 to "hack" a horse only to find out it had a rearing and flipping over problem, bolting problem, and general "stupid" problem. And I had to clean all the tack every ride. I felt that it was a bit underpaid. Did it give me experience? Yes. Was I training it? Definitely. Rode better than the owner. Was it risky? Yep. Still have a reacurring injury 3 years later from it.

I see nothing wrong with the OP charging a modest amount for her time. I've never understood the attitude in this business that everything should be done for free. It's not like that in any other business. Time = money, and only moreso in our economic time. Opportunity costs are definitely at play, here.

80s rider
May. 4, 2009, 10:21 PM
I also get annoyed that everyone expects to get paid for every little thing. I do understand the OP's situation, and I think that $15 is reasonable. However, I would like to add that it's nice to do people favors every once in awhile and not expect to be paid for every little thing. It would drive me nuts when my fellow boarders were charged $25.00 for the BO to do a simple ear/nose trim of their horse. I'd always do it for them as a favor-takes 5 mins on most horses. Pay it forward....

Czar
May. 4, 2009, 10:43 PM
I also get annoyed that everyone expects to get paid for every little thing. I do understand the OP's situation, and I think that $15 is reasonable. However, I would like to add that it's nice to do people favors every once in awhile and not expect to be paid for every little thing. It would drive me nuts when my fellow boarders were charged $25.00 for the BO to do a simple ear/nose trim of their horse. I'd always do it for them as a favor-takes 5 mins on most horses. Pay it forward....

Sorry...but I have to pick on this too - we have 30 horses at our place so that quickly turns into over 2 hours and if you do it for one, how can you not do it for another? Plus, not everyone's horse is a peach to clip ;)

Hate to say it, but favours in the horse business usually don't go over so well...the odd time it's a really nice thing to do for a good client but most of the time it seems that people start to take advantage or think they are entitled. Having grown up in "the business", I would say it's usually best to keep it professional.

Trixie
May. 4, 2009, 11:02 PM
Ammys i had exercising for me were paid in lessons (i was a trainer/instructor at the time). i personally would not pay for an ammy to ride my horse. i've heard of ammys charging $10 a ride

Under USEF rules, that makes them NOT amateurs.

PonyPenny
May. 4, 2009, 11:03 PM
My daughter was offered $10.00 a ride to ride an adult riders horse while she is having surgery. The lady insisted on paying her and my daughter graciously accepted. I think $10.00 to $15.00 is a reasonable and fair rate.

joyful
May. 4, 2009, 11:11 PM
If this isn't a "Shamateur" issue, I don't know what is. IF you charge to ride someone's horse - you are a professional. Period. End of story.

What part of the rule don't you understand? Try being nice and just ride the horse instead of scraping for money for your efforts. Or walk away. If your time is sooo valuable that you MUST be paid to ride then perhaps you should be a professonal. Perhaps you could say "I'm flattered that you asked, but I'm an amateur and the rules of our Federation prohibit me from accepting payment and I can't afford to jeopradize my standing."

If your willing to break this rule, which other rules are subject to your convenient interpretation?

What happens if you get hurt? Where is the liability? What happens if the horse gets hurt? Whose fault is that? We all know that crazy things happen with horses that are no one's fault.

I urge you to follow the spirit of the rules of our Federation, and to take the high road. Think about a worst case scenario, and how a court of law would see this. It's not worth breaking the rules for a few bucks.

Pick your postion - amateur or professional. You can't have it both ways.

klmck63
May. 4, 2009, 11:19 PM
If this isn't a "Shamateur" issue, I don't know what is. IF you charge to ride someone's horse - you are a professional. Period. End of story.

What part of the rule don't you understand? Try being nice and just ride the horse instead of scraping for money for your efforts. Or walk away. If your time is sooo valuable that you MUST be paid to ride then perhaps you should be a professonal. Perhaps you could say "I'm flattered that you asked, but I'm an amateur and the rules of our Federation prohibit me from accepting payment and I can't afford to jeopradize my standing."

If your willing to break this rule, which other rules are subject to your convenient interpretation?

What happens if you get hurt? Where is the liability? What happens if the horse gets hurt? Whose fault is that? We all know that crazy things happen with horses that are no one's fault.

I urge you to follow the spirit of the rules of our Federation, and to take the high road. Think about a worst case scenario, and how a court of law would see this. It's not worth breaking the rules for a few bucks.

Pick your postion - amateur or professional. You can't have it both ways.

From what I understood, the OP does not show nor is she a member of USEF. Therefore the Amateur vs Pro status doesn't matter or make a difference for her. I think Amateur was used more to describe the fact that she is not a trainer by profession? This is just how I interpreted it, I don't know if that is how it was meant or not :)

Kementari
May. 4, 2009, 11:20 PM
If the main point in my riding someone else's horse is to improve the horse - whether through training or fitness - then I expect, under most circumstances, to be paid (though I have trained for free for friends/family as a favor).

If the main point in my riding someone else's horse is to improve me - whether through experience or fitness - then I expect, under most circumstances, not to be paid (and perhaps even to have to pay for the privilege).

If someone doesn't think I am good enough to improve their horse, then they are free to not ask me to ride it and not pay me! No harm, no foul.

For what is basically an exercise ride (though both horse and rider learn, of course, from every ride), I would charge $15-$20 - depending on location and how much time I'm spending (not just riding, but also grooming, tacking up, etc). :yes:

ETA: The OP said that she doesn't show, so really the rules don't matter one bit. Plenty of people - MOST people, I'd venture, actually - don't care about maintaining USEF amateur status because it simply doesn't affect them. Me, I know I can't show in ammy classes because I occasionally train for money, but I really don't care as I'm an eventer and think ammy classes are a bit silly, so don't have a problem not entering one on the rare occasion that it's even offered.

FolsomBlues
May. 4, 2009, 11:22 PM
The owner approached the OP asking her to ride the horse and offering to pay. Obviously she is thinking more than a gas card and free burger.

I have often contemplated doing the same thing when work has gotten crazy. I would expect some kid to be excited about riding my horse and possibly do it for free. I would expect to pay any other adult with decent riding skills and a life of their own.

I agree with everyone else that $15 per ride seems fair. Maybe cut her a small break if you're going to be doing it 3-4 days per week.

FolsomBlues
May. 4, 2009, 11:28 PM
If this isn't a "Shamateur" issue, I don't know what is. IF you charge to ride someone's horse - you are a professional. Period. End of story.

What part of the rule don't you understand? Try being nice and just ride the horse instead of scraping for money for your efforts. Or walk away. If your time is sooo valuable that you MUST be paid to ride then perhaps you should be a professonal. Perhaps you could say "I'm flattered that you asked, but I'm an amateur and the rules of our Federation prohibit me from accepting payment and I can't afford to jeopradize my standing."

If your willing to break this rule, which other rules are subject to your convenient interpretation?

What happens if you get hurt? Where is the liability? What happens if the horse gets hurt? Whose fault is that? We all know that crazy things happen with horses that are no one's fault.

I urge you to follow the spirit of the rules of our Federation, and to take the high road. Think about a worst case scenario, and how a court of law would see this. It's not worth breaking the rules for a few bucks.

Pick your postion - amateur or professional. You can't have it both ways.


READ THE OPENING POST!!: "Yes, I am aware that this will make me a professional. I am not competing any time in the near future, nor am I a member of USEF, so this is not a problem. Please do not turn this into a "shamateur" discussion, as this is not the situation."

She knows it makes her a Pro, she doesn't care, she isn't competing, won't be any time soon, and isn't even a USEF member so it is not her "Federation". All she wants to know is what is a fair price to charge for exercising someone's horse WHO HAS OFFERED TO PAY HER.

joyful
May. 4, 2009, 11:34 PM
Your own words state that you an amateur.
IF something bad happens and you are being paid - a court of law will determine that you are a professional... and expected to be responsible - on ALL levels. Are you prepared to accept the liability for an accident - to yourself or the horse? It's just not worth it. Don't charge. You're inviting bad consequences!

GPSM
May. 5, 2009, 01:40 AM
I understand what you are saying, but I am NOT "trying to have it both ways." I described myself as an amateur because, up until this point, that is what I have been, and to help better describe my situation and skills. Even this is just a temporary thing; I do not plan on taking the professional thing any further, i.e., I'm not striking out on my own and setting up a business, or taking on any more rides.

Because, up until now, I have not been a professional, I posted on here asking what would be fair to charge. I gave as thorough a description of my situation and skills as possible to help determine what would be fair. I'm obviously not a big-name professional who deserves $50/ride, and I tried to convey this.

I will cross any bridges in regards to liability issues in the court of law if I come to them. In the meantime, I have health insurance, have been injured by horses (both my own and not my own), and have never had any problems with liability issues.

You may not agree with me, and that's fine; just please don't try to tell me that I am in the wrong, just because it is not something you would do.

mrsbradbury
May. 5, 2009, 10:11 AM
I am professional, young, but with good diverse experience. My business is fledgling, and I do not have a widely established name in my area.

I charge $15.00 to ride, some owners have the horses ready and waiting, sometimes I do my own tacking.

I tell owners that I do NOT ride by the clock. If horsey is having a bad day, we work on something positive and I don't push it. I still need to be paid for my time, and the risk of swinging my leg up on that horse. The last thing you want to deal with for $15.00 is "well, so and so, metioned you only rode Mr. Apples for 40 minutes on Tues, so do you think you can throw in an extra 20 minute day to make up for that hour I pay for?"

I have ridden enough horses to be past "the experience", and I have turned down a really rank one. I love to ride, and this is my profession; I expect to be paid in something other than gas cards, joules shirts, and hamburgers. (I prefer cheese anyway;))

Good luck, have fun. and if you need the money right now, and this person wants to pay you, take it, and we'll sort out the rules, and liability later.

sketcher
May. 5, 2009, 11:13 AM
Honestly, it is my opinion, no matter the age of the rider one should be grateful for the opportunity and leave it at that.


I might agree with that type of thinking except that paying someone also brings with it expectations and a specific committment. If you want someome to hop on your horse when they feel like it then they get a free ride whenever the do it.

If you want someone to ride your horse for X length of time, for X days per week, then you pay for it unless you are lucky enough to have someone around the barn that is just hungry to ride.

I know a lot of entitled adults when I was a teenager. People offered me their horses all the time because I rode 3-4 hours after school and all day on the weekends. I was on top of a horse as much as was humanely possible. I was nothing special as a rider, I just couldn't get enough. and, I would trail ride horses that owners wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the ring on. Some people became very demanding once you started excersizing their horse for them, some of them even tried to turn me into their errand girl, you know adding other small tasks on to to before or after the ride since I was there anyway. Rarely did any of them express gratitude because the extra riding and variety created a much happier horse who often started performing much better in the show ring.

Trixie
May. 5, 2009, 11:20 AM
IF something bad happens and you are being paid - a court of law will determine that you are a professional... and expected to be responsible - on ALL levels. Are you prepared to accept the liability for an accident - to yourself or the horse? It's just not worth it. Don't charge. You're inviting bad consequences!

Inviting "bad consequences"? Who are you to judge that and tell her not to charge?

The OP can charge if she wants to charge, as long as she then doesn't proceed to go into the show ring as an amateur.

Coreene
May. 5, 2009, 11:42 AM
OP, I would pay $25 for a service like yours. Would not expect more than you did your own tacking/untacking. For a working or busy person, it's a godsend to have someone who can exercise.

joyful
May. 5, 2009, 03:48 PM
I apoligize if I offended anyone. She asked for opinions. My opinion was not to charge, which is just the same as naming a price. If my answer isn't what she wanted to hear, oh well - she posted the question.

I had the VERY unfortunate experience of watching a friend get sued for riding a horse that got hurt (not even while she was riding it!). THe owner decided that the injury was the result of my friends riding and sued her. Because my friend charged her $15 a ride (she was also an amatuer) the court decided she was professional, and liable for the loss. Of course she had no insurance. My friend drove 45 ins each way to ride this horse and was mostly interested in collecting car money. She's now paying off the owner... and a lawyer. Not fair, not nice, but "stuff" happens.

I am an amatuer. I ride other peoples horses. I charge nothing and accept no gifts. I learned from watching what can happen when our little horse world is exposed to the legal system. Beware!!!

Kementari
May. 5, 2009, 07:00 PM
If you damage someone else's horse, you are going to be liable whether you charged for riding or not. Just like if you hit a baseball through someone else's window, you're on the hook, even though no one ever paid you to play baseball.

If you are riding other people's horses, it is wise to have liability insurance. Professional liability is more expensive than personal, so that may be something to take into account.

kates93
May. 5, 2009, 07:45 PM
OP, I pay an 18-year-old to ride my horse 2x-3x/week. I pay her $20/ride. She isn't a pro per se, but is working towards becoming one and rides better than I do.

I see it like this: I approached her, I offered to pay her, she does me a service and helps keep my horse sane (this way, she gets 5-6 rides/week--she is coming 5 and, although she is a sweet girl, fun and not rank, she does need miles). Keeping my horse sane, by extension, keeps me sane. I absolutely expect to pay for that service.

What she does, that I really appreciate, is goes the extra mile with my horse. She doesn't just get on and go, she also does stuff like load her now and again, give her baths, and rides her places I might be cautious to, for the experience. To me, it's worthwhile.

Actually, she is leaving for college here in the near future and I'm going to be high and dry! You don't happen to live in Washington, do you? :D

WW_Queen
May. 5, 2009, 10:17 PM
IME it also depends on how often you will be riding. I used to charge $20-$25 for "problem" horses 1-2x a week but if it was multiple horses on the farm or multiple times (like 3x +) per week, then just $15.

There are always risks with horses. I had a horse that broke bones on multiple "trainers" and riders, which is why no matter whether they were paid or not they had to sign a waiver. Back then things were more casual, nowadays you should have your own waiver for the owner to sign before you mount up that indicates you are liability free should any accidents occur.

GPSM
May. 6, 2009, 01:55 PM
Actually, she is leaving for college here in the near future and I'm going to be high and dry! You don't happen to live in Washington, do you? :D

:lol: Nope - far from it! Best of luck finding someone!

chawley
May. 6, 2009, 02:20 PM
[QUOTE=joyful;4072169]I apoligize if I offended anyone. She asked for opinions. My opinion was not to charge, which is just the same as naming a price. If my answer isn't what she wanted to hear, oh well - she posted the question.

QUOTE]

If you re-read the OP's post, you will see she was not asking if we agreed w/ whether she should charge, but was asking opinions on how much to charge.

That being said OP - I would say $15 range is reasonable.

And for those that say you should be grateful for the experience....well that depends on the situation. I personally think that people should be free to make their own decisions in this area, assuming they aren't violating any rules (which the OP isn't).

For younger or inexperienced riders trying to gain experience, I would mostly agree that experience is more valuable than money. Nevertheless, I am an active adult amateur who shows at rated shows, so I of course don't charge to ride others horses, which I do often. But if I weren't showing and no longer needed to concern myself w/ USEF rules, I'd charge too, unless it was a close friend or something. Time is money at this point in my life.

kates93
May. 6, 2009, 04:41 PM
:lol: Nope - far from it! Best of luck finding someone!

Hmm. Too bad for me. I think it might be time to continue my mare's proper edjumacation anyway. I didn't want her doing much jumping before she turned 5 but her 5th birthday is in June :)

PS: totally, totally agree with chawley--time is money!!

Horseymama
May. 6, 2009, 05:49 PM
I have to agree with Mac123, every time you sit on a horse you are training (or un-training) it.

And the words "professional" and "amateur" do NOT denote skill level.

She should be paid for her time. I think $15 sounds about right if it is green and reasonably well-behaved. Definitely more if it is a difficult horse.

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 6, 2009, 05:55 PM
Wow...this thread went crazy. I've been in a similar situation--I sympathize with you (OP) I guess. I was offered $20/ride to ride a greenie and I was in a financial situation where I thought twice about it.

I really don't get the "do it for the experience" comments. The Op is an adult. Someone has asked the OP to ride their horse for money. From my perspective, there is no way I want to ride any greenies or fresh off the track horses in my life at this point for the "experience" of it. It is not an honor for me to get to ride another person's inexperienced horse when it means I don't have time to ride my own and have more likelihood of dealing with naughty behavior. I do agree that anytime you ride a horse you are training it, and more is impressed upon a young horse each ride than a campaigner. I don't think the OP was asking us if we think the OP is qualified to do this though...

I know some "pros" who make me shudder and I wouldn't let them near my horses.

I hadn't thought of the liability issues of the horse getting injured and think that is worth more thought, OP. Perhaps a waiver would work (depending on your state's laws)--i.e. I'm not giving you legal advice ;-)