weak RH + Haunches travel right = left bend sucks

[normandy_shores]

Help?

My guy is pretty weak in his right hind, especially after the winter off. He's always been this way, but more now than ever. He travels with his quarters right, always.

I've been emphasizing trying to move them over, travel straight, etc. I ride our long sides shoulder fore, do tons of SI at the walk and trot going right, etc. We do tons of walk work on a short and long rein, changing directions, yielding, etc.

We always need to emphasize bending and work on our suppleness, but we're really struggling. This issue effects every aspect of our riding/his development. Oddly enough our left lead canter is way better than the right?


What can I do to help him out? He's an otherwise healthy 19 year old with some arthritis (RH, LF), has good bare feet, gets his lower legs and hocks rubbed with mineral ice, gets lots of turnout.

We're on the brink of a breakthrough - today we had some REALLY good 'up' work in the canter and trot...

[goeslikestink]

look at yourself - if hes always been stiff then most of the time its rider error
as people tend to ride right handed as they are right handed so give on your strongest side this will allow the horse to bend and not be so stiff as in you give so the horse is even

[ShotenStar]

Horses that are weak / soft on the right tend to offer the rider a 'hole' to sit in on the right; it feels like a very natural place to be and can be very hard to get out of. Part of the remedial work involves the rider sitting more on the left / strong side -- basically telling the horse 'carry me here (on the left), not on the right'. So, when on the right rein, sit with more weight on the left and insist that the horse use both sides: the left to carry you and the right to step up more strongly / evenly.

There will be times when you will be sitting / riding in a way that is counter to what all the books and ODGs say. That's OK for the rebuilding / retraining phase. You need to use your weight and the movements as physical therapy sessions and ride what the horse needs, not what the book says.

I've now spent several years rehabbing an EPM horse who was very affected on the right side, to the point that the muscle wasting on the right required a set of shims under the saddle to fill in the 'hole'. It was / is an interesting intellectual exercise, requiring me to analysis every stride of every ride and decide where my weight, leg, and rein aids had to be in order to get her straight and stepping up. It can be done, but there is no shortcut.

*star*

[JRG]

Try left seatbone/ left shoulder back. Anytime my horse's but travels it is always me, and if the butt is drifting, it is usually the opposite seat bone and/or shoulder combination.

[rugbygirl]

GLS, can you expand a little? I think my non-horsey SO might be on to something...you reminded me of it.

My right hand doesn't really work. Since I was small, so I am very used to overcompensating/babying it. I have no grip, can't close my last three fingers on the reins at all, no wrist mobility.

Could this be why my horse feels SO stiff going to the left? To the point that he avoids giving me a left lead canter? (Loves to canter on the wrong lead, this one, you have to ask PERFECTLY, which I have not yet mastered)

Not meaning to hijack, OP, this is an interesting discussion in one-sidedness, that I think a lot of people must suffer from. Humans are notoriously non-symmetric. :D

[Petstorejunkie]

If your right hand does not function properly, then you cannot support the right side of your horse correctly. Since we ride inside to outside this would explain why your horse is having trouble bending left. He can't because you can't. You are probably compensating in other ways as well.
If you are not with a competant trainer, I suggest you find one asap.

[rugbygirl]

I have been with a trainer for quite a while.

I am curious, since your connection to the bit is meant to go from elbow to bit-ring, how your "hand" supports the horse. If you can keep the rein from slipping, is that not enough?

I know that I compensate in other ways as well, but I had never attributed it to my hand before, not until my SO mentioned it to me...I hate it when people use things like that as excuses for soing something poorly.

[narcisco]

Oddly enough our left lead canter is way better than the right?

Canters are very deceptive in determining soundness or stiffness issues because they are asymmetrical. If the horse is sore in the RH/LF diagonal pair, when cantering left, his left hind (his good hind) engages the most and steps further under. He may find this easier than engaging the RH going right.

But, sometimes it works the other way, when the horse is sore on the outside hind and it hurts for that leg to carry alone.


What can I do to help him out? He's an otherwise healthy 19 year old with some arthritis (RH, LF), has good bare feet, gets his lower legs and hocks rubbed with mineral ice, gets lots of turnout.

I think you're doing all the right things, and his way of going is very common for horses with a weaker hind leg. They step inside to prevent reaching under with the sore hind leg (which follows with his canter work)

Keep doing what you're doing. Have you run recent flexions? Has he ever had his hocks injected and did that help?

[twofatponies]

I have been with a trainer for quite a while.

I am curious, since your connection to the bit is meant to go from elbow to bit-ring, how your "hand" supports the horse. If you can keep the rein from slipping, is that not enough?

I know that I compensate in other ways as well, but I had never attributed it to my hand before, not until my SO mentioned it to me...I hate it when people use things like that as excuses for soing something poorly.

I would imagine that your two hands have a different feel for the horse - the hand has so many small muscles that can interact with the rein - the elbow is not nearly as complex. It may just be that difference in feel that is enough to make a difference for the horse. Probably something you can learn to compensate for even more specifically, with practice and the help of someone like your trainer watching you.

[slc2]

My guy is pretty weak in his right hind, especially after the winter off. He's always been this way, but more now than ever. He travels with his quarters right, always.

--Are you saying his leg is 'weak' because he always seems to carry his haunches to the right, or because he's had an injury or has some chronic problem on that side that has been diagnosed for sure by a veterinarian, treated, etc?

I've been emphasizing trying to move them over, travel straight, etc. I ride our long sides shoulder fore, do tons of SI at the walk and trot going right, etc. We do tons of walk work on a short and long rein, changing directions, yielding, etc.

--Turn around and go to the LEFT, and leg yield at an angle to the wall. Go to the LEFT and do haunches in.

--Don't just do that of course, and don't over do it, but it helps.

We always need to emphasize bending and work on our suppleness, but we're really struggling. This issue effects every aspect of our riding/his development. Oddly enough our left lead canter is way better than the right?

--How is it 'better'? More upright? Seems easier for you to ride? The right lead canter is fast, flat, sprawled out?


What can I do to help him out? He's an otherwise healthy 19 year old with some arthritis (RH, LF), has good bare feet, gets his lower legs and hocks rubbed with mineral ice, gets lots of turnout.

--Is he getting that because he's off, or just to take good care of him?

--Frankly, if a 19 year old horse is carrying his haunches to the right, and has arthritis in is right hind leg, I am not going to try and 'fix' him. He's found a way to go that is comfortable, I'd leave it alone. If I 'correct' him, I make him 'straight', I bet a very nice lunch I also make him sore.

We're on the brink of a breakthrough - today we had some REALLY good 'up' work in the canter and trot...

[HollysHobbies]

Hills may help to strenthen him behind. I also find that doing dressage out in the field once a week helps us straighten up too.

But I feel your pain--my older 18 yr gelding is also very weak--except to the left (LH is the problem)

I've had good luck on Smart Pak Senior as a joint supplement as well!

I also try to let his muscles "rehab" after dressage work--one day of dressage work, then the next day hack out to loosen up.

Good luck!

[Eclectic Horseman]

My guy is pretty weak in his right hind, especially after the winter off. He's always been this way, but more now than ever. He travels with his quarters right, always.

--Are you saying his leg is 'weak' because he always seems to carry his haunches to the right, or because he's had an injury or has some chronic problem on that side that has been diagnosed for sure by a veterinarian, treated, etc?

I've been emphasizing trying to move them over, travel straight, etc. I ride our long sides shoulder fore, do tons of SI at the walk and trot going right, etc. We do tons of walk work on a short and long rein, changing directions, yielding, etc.

--Turn around and go to the LEFT, and leg yield at an angle to the wall. Go to the LEFT and do haunches in.

--Don't just do that of course, and don't over do it, but it helps.

We always need to emphasize bending and work on our suppleness, but we're really struggling. This issue effects every aspect of our riding/his development. Oddly enough our left lead canter is way better than the right?

--How is it 'better'? More upright? Seems easier for you to ride? The right lead canter is fast, flat, sprawled out?


What can I do to help him out? He's an otherwise healthy 19 year old with some arthritis (RH, LF), has good bare feet, gets his lower legs and hocks rubbed with mineral ice, gets lots of turnout.

--Is he getting that because he's off, or just to take good care of him?

--Frankly, if a 19 year old horse is carrying his haunches to the right, and has arthritis in is right hind leg, I am not going to try and 'fix' him. He's found a way to go that is comfortable, I'd leave it alone. If I 'correct' him, I make him 'straight', I bet a very nice lunch I also make him sore.

We're on the brink of a breakthrough - today we had some REALLY good 'up' work in the canter and trot...

I agree. I'd want to see the xrays of the right hock. Bone spurs or lack of cartilage can really make bearing weight on a bent hock uncomfortable. You won't fix that with exercises, you'll just make him sore and resistant.

I'd be thinking Hock injections, Legend, and if those don't do the trick, then I'd just lower my expectations and/or the type of work.

[normandy_shores]

Thank you everyone for the replies!

look at yourself - if hes always been stiff then most of the time its rider error
as people tend to ride right handed as they are right handed so give on your strongest side this will allow the horse to bend and not be so stiff as in you give so the horse is even

I know I ride better one way, but he came out of 5 months off like this. I didn't cause it, I just make it worse!

Horses that are weak / soft on the right tend to offer the rider a 'hole' to sit in on the right; it feels like a very natural place to be and can be very hard to get out of. Part of the remedial work involves the rider sitting more on the left / strong side -- basically telling the horse 'carry me here (on the left), not on the right'. So, when on the right rein, sit with more weight on the left and insist that the horse use both sides: the left to carry you and the right to step up more strongly / evenly.

There will be times when you will be sitting / riding in a way that is counter to what all the books and ODGs say. That's OK for the rebuilding / retraining phase. You need to use your weight and the movements as physical therapy sessions and ride what the horse needs, not what the book says.

I've now spent several years rehabbing an EPM horse who was very affected on the right side, to the point that the muscle wasting on the right required a set of shims under the saddle to fill in the 'hole'. It was / is an interesting intellectual exercise, requiring me to analysis every stride of every ride and decide where my weight, leg, and rein aids had to be in order to get her straight and stepping up. It can be done, but there is no shortcut.

*star*

Thanks. I do collapse to the right, and I have been having trouble stabilizing my right leg the same way I do my left. I've gotten some tips about keeping my right hip forward, sitting left, getting my right ankle on. It's coming along!

Try left seatbone/ left shoulder back. Anytime my horse's but travels it is always me, and if the butt is drifting, it is usually the opposite seat bone and/or shoulder combination.

I've been working more on right hip forward (which naturally makes my left go back). I was struggling when i was thinking of it as "left seatbone back". I collapse on my right side a lot, but have been working on getting my upper body back and UP. When that's up, everything below seems to work better!

I know I perpetuate the problem, but my horse came out of 5 months off this way (even trotting straight lines on the ground). He's due to see the chiro, and while he's 19, I may go the x rays/injections route.

Canters are very deceptive in determining soundness or stiffness issues because they are asymmetrical. If the horse is sore in the RH/LF diagonal pair, when cantering left, his left hind (his good hind) engages the most and steps further under. He may find this easier than engaging the RH going right.

But, sometimes it works the other way, when the horse is sore on the outside hind and it hurts for that leg to carry alone.




I think you're doing all the right things, and his way of going is very common for horses with a weaker hind leg. They step inside to prevent reaching under with the sore hind leg (which follows with his canter work)

Keep doing what you're doing. Have you run recent flexions? Has he ever had his hocks injected and did that help?

I haven't done recent flexions, though he's sounder than when I got him! He's due for chiro work, and I'm considering doing x rays. He's 19, I figure we're winding down anyhow.

I have done IM injections, but no joint injections. I saw little or no improvement back then. I usually ride two days consecutive, one easy, one harder. He does get LOTS of stretches and warm up (almost always gets a warmup before I even get on). I know I can't take him back 10 years in health or get him perfect, and I don't want to push for perfect or make him sore, but I'd like to help do some strengthening to lessen the issue and prolong his longevity.

My guy is pretty weak in his right hind, especially after the winter off. He's always been this way, but more now than ever. He travels with his quarters right, always.

--Are you saying his leg is 'weak' because he always seems to carry his haunches to the right, or because he's had an injury or has some chronic problem on that side that has been diagnosed for sure by a veterinarian, treated, etc?

I've been emphasizing trying to move them over, travel straight, etc. I ride our long sides shoulder fore, do tons of SI at the walk and trot going right, etc. We do tons of walk work on a short and long rein, changing directions, yielding, etc.

--Turn around and go to the LEFT, and leg yield at an angle to the wall. Go to the LEFT and do haunches in.

--Don't just do that of course, and don't over do it, but it helps.

We always need to emphasize bending and work on our suppleness, but we're really struggling. This issue effects every aspect of our riding/his development. Oddly enough our left lead canter is way better than the right?

--How is it 'better'? More upright? Seems easier for you to ride? The right lead canter is fast, flat, sprawled out?


What can I do to help him out? He's an otherwise healthy 19 year old with some arthritis (RH, LF), has good bare feet, gets his lower legs and hocks rubbed with mineral ice, gets lots of turnout.

--Is he getting that because he's off, or just to take good care of him?

--Frankly, if a 19 year old horse is carrying his haunches to the right, and has arthritis in is right hind leg, I am not going to try and 'fix' him. He's found a way to go that is comfortable, I'd leave it alone. If I 'correct' him, I make him 'straight', I bet a very nice lunch I also make him sore.

We're on the brink of a breakthrough - today we had some REALLY good 'up' work in the canter and trot...

His left lead is strong, his right lead is not. He's up and balanced left, and struggles right. Combination of his health, being a TB and my crummy riding. He did flex a few years back as positive in LF/RH, but no traumatic injury or anything. He's 19; I haven't had x rays or anything done. I probably should, but at his age with 5 months off, I almost expected this. I don't want to push him to being sore, but I do want to help him strengthen it to prolong his longevity. Slow strengthening might make him less sore in the long run? I certainly don't demand perfection -- I know I'm an average rider and he's an old horse and we're just doing training level and hopefully first. We do this for fun, but his health is priority.

Hills may help to strenthen him behind. I also find that doing dressage out in the field once a week helps us straighten up too.

But I feel your pain--my older 18 yr gelding is also very weak--except to the left (LH is the problem)

I've had good luck on Smart Pak Senior as a joint supplement as well!

I also try to let his muscles "rehab" after dressage work--one day of dressage work, then the next day hack out to loosen up.

Good luck!

Thanks! I wish I had hills, but I live on flatlands just above sea level. I don't even have decent ditches or berms to walk him up or down! I do consider his workload -- we usually ride only two consecutive days and usually not too hard. The last 2 days he's been a saint so we quit after 20 minutes of trot work. Hey, why push when things are good? He gets tons of stretching, a long warm up (usually a warm up before I even mount), and it's the time of year where he's back on field turnout (a good gallop to the field and back, plus all day out there with his buddies).

I haven't had much luck with joint supplements -- he's on basic vitamins and his diet has been evaluated by a nutritionist. I did adequan IM years ago but saw little difference. Little bugger won't take bute so I can't even give him the "breakfast of champions" that most of the older horses in our barn do. He doesn't seem in pain, seems eager and happy to work, gallops and trots around at his hearts content -- I just want to get him stronger for longevity reasons.

Glad you've had good experiences with your smart pak -- I miss having smart paks!

I agree. I'd want to see the xrays of the right hock. Bone spurs or lack of cartilage can really make bearing weight on a bent hock uncomfortable. You won't fix that with exercises, you'll just make him sore and resistant.

I'd be thinking Hock injections, Legend, and if those don't do the trick, then I'd just lower my expectations and/or the type of work.

I'm not as educated in joint injections as I'd like to be. I don't want to do any long term damage, and don't really want to cheat him into health. I think I'd be afraid of pushing him too hard just because he feels good for a bit. He's not unhappy in work, runs around like a mad man, and is generally happy, I just want to ride him more correctly and get him stronger.

Good point about the bones purs or lack of cartilage. I should bite the bullet and just do x rays and see what's really going on. At 19, I don't really expect any different.


Thanks to everybody!