New mini driver needs help on carts/harness

[Murphy's Mom]

The miniature horse I bought last fall as a farm pet is trained to drive but I never thought I would be able to afford it so didn’t think about it much. Then someone let me drive their mini around the arena a few times. I’m hooked! Now I am in a position where I can afford to buy a cart and harness but I still can’t afford anything fancy. After reading some past COTH threads I’ve come up with a few carts that would be in my price range. Can anyone offer some feedback on these or suggest alternatives? Any advice would be welcome.

Basically I want to drive around my arena some, maybe do a few local schooling shows (very small shows), and the county fair. A “mini lover” not far from me has offered to help me learn to drive. She had me bring Mocha over last weekend and worked with her some (lunging, ground driving) before getting out her spare harness and her fancy custom cart and hitching her up. Then she had me get in and drive. Mocha did great, very soft and quiet and obedient. My harness (an “eBay special”) didn’t pass muster with her (and even I can see it’s not that good) so I’m also looking for a decent, but not super expensive, starter harness.

http://www.buggy.com/minicart.html
http://www.ccfdriving.atfreeweb.com/easyentry.htm
http://www.tackforminis.com/driving/index.asp (this one doesn’t look like it has springs?)
http://www.horsecart.com/carts.html (at the very bottom)
http://easyentrycart.com/
http://www.gscart.com/minihorse2836.htm
Anyone know about this harness?
http://www.minitack.com/mw95.htm

[deltawave]

You have to be really vigilant looking for carts. I sold my old one on Craigslist in a couple of hours--people are looking! We live near Amish country and twice a year they have a big carriage auction which is a great source.

Check out Ron's Horse Harness--they look to have really nice harnesses at a very fair price. I just ordered one for my Shetland--I have a decent biothane one (also bought at the Amish auction) but it's just not good for more than tooling around and I want to do some more serious driving this year.

www.ronshorseharness.com

[Couture TB]

I got my husband's harness for his mini from the amish. Great leather and work and it was only $100. The cart I purchased off of ebay. Think it was $375 after shipping brand new from a guy who sells them.

[movo]

I like these carts. Nicely balanced, a little suspension, they look decent and price includes shipping.

I don't like Ron's harness -- too clunky for me.

http://www.ttminihorse.com/tackstore/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=3

[SLW]

The first miniature harness I purchased was that one in the minitack link. It is a nice light duty harness that has held up.

Both of my carts are from Silver Penny (ccf driving) and I love them. My larger mini, 35", has no trouble pulling his show/pleasure cart but my lighter built 32" is maxed out with his easy entry style, on level ground it is no problem.

So, if your guy is small one of the pipe carts might be lighter and easier for him.

I bought betathane harnesses for both of them and definitely do your homework there. I like the look and ease of care but it does not drape nicely over my husky mini's body like a leather harness does.

Good luck!

[Murphy's Mom]

Thanks for all the replies. Mocha is only 31" so the TTmini cart is out. I really love the look of the wooden basket over the all metal carts. How heavy are those wooden shafts? I've seen some carts with wooden basket/wooden shafts and some with wooden basket/metal shafts. Is there a huge difference in weight? The one we used last weekend was a wooden/metal combination and she seemed to pull that just fine.

I think I might go ahead and order the starter harness from Ozark. Which is preferred - overcheck or sidecheck? The bridle I used last weekend had an overcheck. It looked fine and she went well in it, but there was an awful lot of bridle competing with her thick forelock!

[deltawave]

You should not need an overcheck or sidecheck unless the pony is naughty and roots or dives. But if you had to have one, I think a sidecheck is easier to adjust and deal with and less likely to get in the pony's way. I don't think either one is legal for competition.

[littleum]

Re: sidecheck & overcheck

Both AMHA and AMHR requires a sidecheck OR overcheck in the showring. They are not optional and you will be excused. A lot of local fairs that look to A & R for guidance on Mini classes often require checks. I've been to a fair where the VSEs had to go with checks, but nobody else did. Go figure!

So unless you're strictly going to do ADS competition, have a check handy just in case.

Pam (I think that's her name) at Ozark is really very good and could give you some great advice on getting the right cart for your 31" guy. It depends on how he's built ect. My last guy was a smidge over 32" and an all-terrain all-going kind of guy. Uphill, downhill, deep going, tall meadow grass, mud, asphalt, bad going... didn't matter. He was pretty beastly for a 32" and drove more like a 34". I honestly can't remember ever driving him and wondering if his engine was at redline. (Now his brain was a different story...)

A 31" I leased I never even bothered to hitch. Physically just wasn't there. Probably could handle plodding around on firm flat ground. Another 34" one is so fine and delicate I haven't bothered to hitch her either.

So it really depends on what kind of 31" you have. With the Minis it's not just about size, but also how they're put together and just what kind of physical gifts they have.

[movo]

Sidecheck vs. Overcheck. Get the sidecheck harness because you can remove the sidechecks and put them back on very easily. The overcheck is permanent.

[SLW]

Ditto the sidecheck. I only used the sidecheck the first few row crop field drives I did with my mini. It was just to keep his nose up.

Are you familiar with kicking straps??? I recommend one of those for safety reasons.

[Murphy's Mom]

So it really depends on what kind of 31" you have. With the Minis it's not just about size, but also how they're put together and just what kind of physical gifts they have.
Good to know. Mocha is very sturdy and put together nicely. I bought her strictly on color (dun/buckskin) as a farm pet shortly after my buckskin QH mare died last year. She was very much underweight and at that time I had no intention of doing anything but in hand work with her. Now that she has gained weight she's looking pretty good. The woman who is helping me really likes her and thinks that she can do well in the driving ring with a little bit of conditioning and practice. Hopefully I will be getting another driving lesson today (the weather is a little iffy right now) and I'll run my list of carts by her. I know I need to be careful choosing, but now that I've decided to buy one, I want it now! :D

[nfld_pony]

I don't think Ron's making anymore... and they are terrible. my coach has the mini pairs and i have the pony, and we don't use them.

go chimacum. they're awesome.

[deltawave]

Curious--what is it about the Ron's harnesses you didn't like?

[nfld_pony]

They're WAY over built.

On my pony sized harness the rosettes were larger than my friend's draft bridles.

The saddle was enormously overbearing.

It was stiff. No matter how much oil I put, or not much I rolled in in my hands, it never became soft.

The browband was way to thick, and short. I asked for a longer more narrow one, and he wasn't able to put any chain on it, because he only buys the one size chain in large quantities.

The metal on the traces didn't fit over my trace hooks.

The driving lines were an inch wide. I'm 6'2 and about 240 and they were too big for my fingers!!!

I ordered it with a breast collar and later a neck collar. The traces were supposed ot be the same, but they didn't fit the neck collar when it came, (and I'd already bought new ones because the first ones didn't fit my trace hooks) so then I needed more again!

A judge noted the mini pairs harness as "the ugliest harness [she'd] ever seen".

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g218/dwyerfarm/Mar2007_101.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g218/dwyerfarm/April2007194.jpg

[Thomas_1]

Why oh why oh why are overchecks and side checks coming as standard fit ? :confused:

Why for goodness sakes are shows insisting that they're used? :confused:

[atr]

I can't answer you on the checks, Thomas. Tis strange.

I sent my Ron's harness back as soon as I opened the box. It was just hugely clunky even for my 37" mini, very stiff and not as well made as I would like. For an extra $50 I found a beautiful set of harness in my local tack shop. No idea of the make, I'm afraid but it is really nice, good leather, good stitching and very well proportioned.

My easy-entry cart came from Frontier. It is robust and well balanced and fits Pip nicely.

[Murphy's Mom]

I went ahead and ordered the starter harness from Ozark (minitack.com). I'm glad I asked for opinions because I almost got the one from Ron's due to the cheaper price. I haven't ordered the cart yet, but I'm thinking about this one...
http://www.carriagedrivingessentials.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=2523&category_id=186

I *think* it is the Frontier cart with wooden dash. Same price, same photo used on both sites. Shipping should be cheaper though since they are in California and I'm in Washington.

Can someone enlighten me as to the use for a sidecheck or overcheck. Why are they not allowed in ADS shows? I suppose I'll have to use one at the fair (I've been told it's mandatory) but I don't have to use it for every day training. Thanks!

[SLW]

A girlfriend has that cart and it is very nice. She drives a 35" mini with it. :)

[littleum]

Why oh why oh why are overchecks and side checks coming as standard fit ? :confused:

Why for goodness sakes are shows insisting that they're used? :confused:

I don't know, honestly. It's been in the rulebook since Day 1 (going on 30 years now). A check MUST be used.

Remember that in the Miniature world we have a lot of people from the Arabian/NSH/ASB/Hackney/Shetland world, so checking up a horse is simply what's done.

But in my strictly amateur opinion? The check gets abused as a training shortcut with Miniatures. It lets people get away with stupid shit and shortcuts. It lets a lot of rank, badly-wired, fruitloops get wrestled around the ring. I'm all for safety, but when the only thing that's making an entry "safe" is the check... that's not any kind of safety.

I'd just as soon drive without it. I show with mine so loose it bounces and slaps my pony's neck. I think it's really unattractive and distracting but I don't get a choice.

The thing that's really irritating is judges almost never excuse the bad actors, but they'll kick you out of the ring faster then you can blink if you come in unchecked. I've seen entries slam into rails, buck, rear, do shit that clearly endangers other entries and only ONCE in 20 years seen the judges demand the entry leave. Hell, your horse can be so awful an all-stop has to be called and 5 people untangle them, but you can carry on! Show up without your check hooked or without a martingale? Scram. ---_---

[deltawave]

I got my Ron's harness yesterday and it is, indeed, on the "chunky" side. :) However, the harness I'm replacing is not substantial ENOUGH, so I'm going to put it together and see how it looks/fits. The bridle may not work with my pony's little-girl head, but OTOH she's a chunky (albeit feminine) girl so it may actually work out fine. Compared to many harnesses I've seen the quality is better than most, although not as good as one of the top-of-the line brands. Which I'm not quite ready to cough up for yet. :)

[appybeads]

I ordered a harness for my mini from Ron's Harness. It was nice quality for the money, but for my 36" mini (who was a little on the chunky side then) it looked awful. Picture "does this harness make my arss look big":lol: it went back.

I broke down and bought the Driving Essentials "Essential Harness" it is great for the money spent. Fits my horse great, Jan & Jack are great so patient with newbie driving person like me.

I did have the Ozark one a few years ago too, it was nice for the $$ and the people there have great customer service too!

[olehossgal]

Been driving/training minis since '85/'86; have also done a lot of research on both harness and carts; here's my take---
My first, and still in 'everyday' use, with nary a repair ever needed!, harness, was a Smuckers "Lite" in russet leather, and I wouldn't 'take' for it; nowadays, I admire the Camptown and Chimicum beta/leather combos, and have had good luck with a beta from The Carriage House in FL....all use GOOD Amish makers, I believe. That said, many think that the Ozark Mt. harness has a pretty good reputation/track record, and will likely be fine--though I'd suggest a pad for breast collar, breeching, and even harness saddle, for horse's comfort in everyday driving, as each part is a bit on the 'narrow' side.
The cart you chose does indeed appear to be Frontier's wooden 'basket' version of their popular EE cart. IMO, the Frontier is the 'best of its kind'--that is, the inexpensive EE 'pipe' cart. No, it is NOT 'ideal'--coil springs are NOT the 'best' suspension, and the seat is shallow(front to back), not all that well-padded(only 2" foam), so won't be all that comfy on a lengthy drive. The pneumatic wheels help, however, in 'damping' the ride--and IMO, the Frontier offers the best OF ITS KIND in toughness through use. I am on my second; sold the first still in excellent using condition, except for a 'chewed' seat back, where I'd tied other minis to it to pony them behind the cart. It is also decently light in overall weight, esp. important for minis!

Looks like you've made some good choices! Congratulations, and enjoy!


Littleum is right; the two Mini registries wrote 'check' requirements into their BREED SHOWRING requirements from day one, probably because many there then were ONLY 'about' OTHER breed showrings, like Hackney, Saddlebred, Arabian, even American Shetland, which means heavy on the Hackney cross...all these are 'high-stepping', 'roundy-round the ring' breeds , at least in their breed rings; NO thought to actual CARRIAGE driving standards, IMO--hence the check being a REQUIREMENT...and they are too 'hidebound' to change it. I STARTED in the Miniature breed show ring, and was successful--BUT, I also wanted to learn more, and when I did, I no longer enjoyed nor wanted to continue in the breed show ring(at least, in 'on-the-rail' driving), so I have quit there.

The running martingale is NOT a 'rulebook requirement'--and I early on quit using one, though I'd been 'told' I should, because I could see it had no benefit. Most use it because they see everyone else doing so, and as noted, there is a tendency to use them to 'trap' a horse between it and a tight overcheck, to produce a 'false' appearance of collection to hurry a horse into the breed showring.

BTW, there are some exciting new designs in competition carts for minis-ever lighter in weight, while being tough and balanced! Several American builders have developed improved 'models', including IteBte, and Scotmans; the Smart Cart from Pacific in Canada; and now, Bellcrown USA is working on a new version, and word is that Bennington UK will unveil a new mini cart this month! I have Bennington's current (and so far, only) mini cart, and it has very good features, but is really best-suited to minis 36 and up, IMO...am very interested in seeing what they 'come up with' for the newer, supposedly lighter-weight, design!

Margo in NM

[LuvMyVSE]

Seems like you have the "right stuff" in order. Where are you located in WA? I live in the Monroe area. There is a very active community of drivers in this area, and also a lot of competitions. Welcome to the world of Mini Driving! :D

[Murphy's Mom]

I'm between Yakima and Ellensburg. Plenty of horse people, but not much in the way of showing unless I want to go over the mountain (I don't!). Just ordered the cart today. Harness is due to arrive next Wednesday. I'm already thinking about a 'B' size mini or small pony after looking at the Happs website. :lol: