Size Size Size. DOES it really matter?

[Oldenburg Mom]

Ok, vet came today for spring shots, and one of my mare's foals was a little bit under the weather so he took a look. Probably just a little bug, nothing to get hysterical about (famous last words!)

HOWEVER, he did say the foal was on the small size ... but hastened to add, "But with warmbloods you never know!" And of course, Baby-Dumpling is the mare's first—which apparently tend to run a little smaller???

Ok, says I. Better I know now. Mama is 16.2 Daddy 16.1. He's suggesting 15.2. Ok, again, I know this is a guess...he might end up being 18 hands (NOT!!) But, I must admit to all, it did "ping" a little.

DOES size really matter that much, at the end of the day? I know we can all point to various smaller horses that have competed against the big boys (can you spell Teddy?) but in the grand scheme of things I think smaller horses (15-16) are not the norm in competition. So, DOES it really matter???

I'm sitting on the fence, because my intellect say No, it doesn't matter—while my heart says, "You bet it matters!!"

Opinions?

[Valentina_32926]

Horses around 16 hands tend to sell - hence more are in competition. My 3rd level mare is just 15.1 1/2 hands, registered Dutch, moves like she's at least 16 hands, :cool:and comes off the trailer at a show like she's 17 hands! :lol:

Size does NOT matter - but because people think it does the larger horses are those in the show ring, even if a smaller horse would benefit the rider better since it would be a better match.

[okggo]

It matters, of course! Some people want a smaller horse!! I think people are so overwhelmed with the big-horse nuts they forget there is also a market for the smaller ones, particularly when they have the talent!

That said, yes I am a proclaimed big-horse nut, but I like substance, not stilts :) Will being 15ish hands turn some people off, yes, but so would being 17 hands.

I say don't worry about the size, it's what's in the package, not the size of it!

[Home Again Farm]

Some of my smallest foals have ended up being my tallest young horses when finished. :yes: Really. :yes:

My smallest filly ever is the one whose pic I put on the Don Schufro thread yesterday. She's now 16.3 and turning three.

Look to the parents and grandparents for some sort of guess-timate, but understand that unless you have a mare and breed her many times, it is hard to make accurate predictions.

Also, this is not something you can change, so don't agonize about what you can't change. :winkgrin:

[Maryanne Nicpon]

I have a small herd of Holsteiner mares that are mostly between 16.2-16.3. Most of the stallions I breed to are around that ballpark size too. I have had foals that matured from 15.3- 18 hands. There are definitely riders out there looking for "smaller" warmbloods (usually when I have the 17.2 horses for sale). But I feel there is still a market for the big ones, though not necessarily the mack trucks of years ago.

It is all about finding the right buyer. I wouldn't worry though. One of my retired mares was barely 16.1, and her two offspring ended up 17.2 and 18 hands. They were both quite normal sized when they were born. Boy were we surprised!

[Oldenburg Mom]

I'm not really worried, per se...I was just surprised at that little *ping* that I think happens to us all when we hear a suggestion that our kids may not be perfect!

THAT's what got me thinking ... I shouldn't be *ping*-ing.... :lol: KWIM??? You all have confirmed what I think ... you never know how big they will/will not grow, and (Thank You, MaryLou) it's in God's hands anyway ... nothing you can do about it!!!

It SHOULDN"T matter; like okggo said, It's what's IN the package, not the size of the package!"

I'm thrilled with the bloodlines too ... Heisman/Olisco/Landadel/Rubinstein/Furioso/Inschallah/Lucky Boy are some of his sterling ancestors. And he inheirited his Mama's beautiful head (a 9 from GOV AND the Selle Francais) so... hey, I could keep him just for his looks. Talk about a stunning pasture ornament!!! :lol:

[Daydream Believer]

Personally I think very big horses are way overrated. I am amazed at how hung up people are over a few inches of height. To me much more important is movement and athleticism....and of course temperament. I love smaller horses...they just seem so much easier to ride...the compactness seems to be more an asset than a liability. I also think there are way more Teddy's out there than people realize but the smaller athletic horses or ponies are passed over in favor of the bigger ones more often than not.

Can you tell from this pic how big this horse is? The jump is at least 4 feet....those are 5 foot standards.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/IMG_4473.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/IMG_4481.jpg













It is a 14 1/2 hand stallion. This is Wayward Wind a 20 year old Col. Spanish stallion we stand here. He showed in jumpers with kids riding him for years. We freeschooled him last week and this is what he did coming out of the pasture. He has as much stride and scope as any horse 2 hands taller than him. It is not the size that matters IMO.

[Jessi P]

This is Wayward Wind a 20 year old Col. Spanish stallion we stand here.

Very nice!

[SilverSpringFarm]

My friend's 12.1H Welsh stallion:

http://stopekstables.com/buckcarivps.jpg

[SilverSpringFarm]

I remember when I had my mare in for training at a big eventing barn, someone walked up to me and says. "That's a very nice mare. She'd be the perfect size for a children's mount."

My immediate thought (minus the expletives) was "Since when is 15.2H considered child sized???"

This is a mare that wears a 36cm XXW tree saddle when she is at her fittest.

I felt much better after I watched that same woman spend a half an hour struggling to keep her 17H gelding in frame.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

I think a big part of it is natural presence too!

How tall would you guess my Oldenburg yearling is? These were taken easter weekend when he turned a year old at a show.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/TBJMPR2/Aiden/HNRIMG_0050_1.jpg


I’ve done the tripping out over my boys height. To me he still seems a bit small compared to other kids his age but he’s wide and looks much bigger when he wants to. His mom is a tank at 16.2 (wide body and lots of bulk) and dad is 16.1

[Oldenburg Mom]

HOLY SMOKES Silver Spring and Daydream! Very nice! Oh, and I love the

I felt much better after I watched that same woman spend a half an hour struggling to keep her 17H gelding in frame.

Hehehehehe. Not to be nasty,... but what goes around comes around; I can happily admit when it comes to horses I am an expert in ..

**nothing** :D

[Oldenburg Mom]

How tall would you guess my Oldenburg yearling is?

A LOT bigger than my boy ... who at 11 months, is only about 500 lbs (estimate of the vet.)

I guess I'll just have to take some snaps tonight and share them tomorrow.

[IrishWillow]

Sizes DOES matter. But, in good ways and bad. I prefer horses right in the 15.3 - borderline 16.1h size. They are handy, can usually jump plenty big enough for me, and tend to be very easy to "hold together". My 16.3h gelding feels like he has no natural balance compared to my smaller guys and just isnt as easy to hold together. Also, I like the smaller size for the hunter ring (as long as they have a big canter) bc the fences are literally bigger for them and makes them jump rounder and cleaner. My 15h guy is JUST gorgeous over 3ft fences, whereas a big 17h horse sometimes looks like he is just stepping over and sloppy.

[IrishWillow]

:lol: I felt much better after I watched that same woman spend a half an hour struggling to keep her 17H gelding in frame.

Exactly! :yes:

[Oldenburg Mom]

Irish, my guy is bred to jump, so your comments are very interesting. I never thought of it that way... but I can see your point.

I remember scribing for training level when a 5'10" lady came in riding an Icelandic. Yes, she won the class. And Elly Schobel at Devon on the pony stallion ... who could forget that? Plus, he placed very very high in the Materiale AND Suitability classes.

Of course, it IS intimidating to be next to those huge hulkers. Having said that, his best friend is Mr. Duchovny ... Le Duc of the BirdandBees-Willem (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=24288) fame. I'll try and get him in the snap tomorrow too!! Duc is a good 16.2/16.3

[railmom]

There are definitely riders out there looking for "smaller" warmbloods (usually when I have the 17.2 horses for sale).

Ha, ha, this always happens!!

I had a small filly last year, both parents 16.3. She was a bit early, had some issues....she is now a big yearling, pushing 15 hands!

[SilverSpringFarm]

As for jumping, if you really want to see something spectacular go to youtube and watch some of the mule jumping contests.

When you see a 15H mule jump a 5' wall (in perfect form) from a stand-still it really makes you question some of the old adages about what makes for a good jumper!

[Daydream Believer]

Thanks! What really impressed me about that old stallion when we jumped him was his power. He flat blew me away. He was leaving out strides and still had the scope to spare. I wish he were younger as I think he could have been a great eventer. He has a heart of a lion but is just as sweet as could be.

I do get a little amazed sometimes when a 5' 0" woman believes she has to have a 16 hand horse to "look" good in the ring. Truly it is not about size but as someone else said...it's the package. It is funny also that in western riding, people care much less about size but much more about whether the horse can "do the job" or not.

[SilverSpringFarm]

It is funny also that in western riding, people care much less about size but much more about whether the horse can "do the job" or not.

I have to admit though... Sometimes those big cowboys on their 14H reining horses do look pretty darn funny!

That stallion of yours is gorgeous BTW. He looks like the complete package to me!

[fordtraktor]

It depends on what you mean by "matter." Does it make the horse better? No. Does it make the horse sell for more? Often. Does it reduce the number of sellers willing to look? Certainly.

For what it is worth, I prefer smaller horses, both to ride and because I think they often stay sound longer. You can also usually get them for a better price (which is nice for me as buyer but not for you as seller). That's because demand is higher for 16.2 hand nice horses than 15.2 hand nice horses, and price reflects demand -- basic economics.

[Festivity]

Size does matter to some people. I am always being told that I need to "graduate" to a bigger horse. My 15 hand older gelding was always just fine for me. 14-15 hands is far enough for me to fall off of, thank you very much. Figures that I was told to trade up, my youngster has topped out at 14.2 hands. He has no problem carrying me or doing anything I ask of him so I see no reason for him to be bigger.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

A LOT bigger than my boy ... who at 11 months, is only about 500 lbs (estimate of the vet.)

I guess I'll just have to take some snaps tonight and share them tomorrow.

Aiden is only 14.1 hands tall but he looks much bigger in that pic when he floats at a show. :yes: Last time I did the weight tape on him several weeks ago he was 676lbs. He was weighed on the scale at the vets last week and was 940lbs no that so I'm curious to see how that compares to the tape (mental note to tape tonite) but I think he's around 700lbs.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

That Welsh stallion is just too cute! :D

I've spoken to a lot of people who are looking for a horse in the 15.2-no more than 16hh range. I've got them in that range but some of the horses people were interested in were going to be too large for their needs. And I've noticed more and more people just talking about wanting honies. I've been surprised but glad. Maybe people are getting over the trend for big sport horses just because they are big.

There are too many good horses out there being overlooked due to an inch or two. I've especially never understood why people seem to think that they need large horses (with a lot of bone) for dressage of all things. I'm tall and long legged so I need a somewhat taller/substantial horse to take up my leg but I don't need a 17hh monster. Why would a 5'4" woman need one?

[sid]

In dressage, there is a very, very good market for "ladies sized" athletes. Remember, many dressage enthusiasts are women.

This is one reason, beyond the fact that he was a top dressage competitor in his day, that serious women dressage riders/breeders come to Boleem. He is only 16 1 1/2 hh, though he looks much taller as his is built so uphill. Because he is "round" he fills up the leg and I think that is something dressage riders want, regardless of height.

Granted, he's thrown a few quite larger than himself (warmblood genes for height can be unpredictable at times), but often those who are more modest in stature are extremely desirable for the competitive woman's market.

As long as the movement, the gaits, the willingness to work...and the horse is "built" conformationally for the sport, regardless of height, you should do fine. And, of course, we've all heard about those smaller horses that are just powerhouses as jumpers, too.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Altamont, I know what you mean. I'm 5'9", so, yes, *I* think I need a bigger horse, again to take up my leg.

Of course, what the heck does it matter .... I haven't ridden seriously in almost 3 years :lol:(at least I'm honest about it ... unlike some people I know!! :lol:) BUT, I'm going to start again, I swear swear swear!!! (And stop rolling your eyes, you guys. I can see you from here ... :lol:)

I guess I just go back to that little *ping* ... I really loff this boy as he was the last one I got from my stallion (before I lost him in November to colic.) And he's out of my Rubinstein mare. He's adorable with such a lovely temperament.

Of course, we are ALL attached to our babies...but I think there are those special ones that come along and grab our hearts and won't let go.

[ShannonD]

I can understand needing a larger horse to take up your leg if you are taller or long legged, but often these people overlook the fact that what they really need is a horse with a bigger barrel, not more height! And yes, I do think that some people with long torsos look "odd" on short horses.

But personally? I just came across a 15h Oldenburg mare, whose 3 year old colt by a 16.1h stallion is currently sitting at 15.1h. That makes me WANT her :) I'm 5'2 and just sold my 16.1 1/2h Trakehner mare. She was one hot headed, hormonal mare, and she definitely solidified my desire for a short horse! Her height (and substance) intimidated me.

While a few inches isn't going to be the difference between spraining a wrist or breaking a wrist in a fall, it COULD mean the difference in the severity of a concussion. Or so I'd like to believe!

Not to mention...I LIKE being able to buy medium-sized tack & equipment, able to find deals on average-horse sized blankets/boots/etc, and not having to spend more to buy bigger. As well as spending less $ on feed ;)

Not having to buy a "warmblood size" trailer is appealing as well.

[SilverSpringFarm]

That Welsh stallion is just too cute! :D

His disposition is to die for too. Every time I visit that farm I find myself wondering if there's a way he'll fit in the trunk of my car...

[Bellfleur]

Ha SIZE MATTERS!!!

I have a super coming 3 yr old. He is now only 15.1. His movement and conformation and brain make him a fabulous FEI prospect and he could win the 4 yr olds next year. With all of his attributes if he would finish 16.2 even he would be worth 60K, at 15.3 when finished I am NOT going to get that for him, not even close. Size matters even when is shouldn't.

Super Super fancy chestnut mare with chrome 15.2 plus a smidge. 3 super correct gaits, exceptionally trainable, unbeatable mind, comfortable and easy. Very sweet and affectionate. Excellent bloodlines for breeding too!! Schooling 3rd. First time out showing 66 plus percent with three days notice of the show. She filled in at the last minute for a rider when her mare went lame. Still here!!

17.3 very very nice Chestnut mare (little chrome)SOLD in 3 weeks from when I placed her ad on DressageDaily for 15K more than the 15.2 mare. 15.2 mare is a better mover and has a more trainable mind and is more comfortable.

It should not matter as long as the horse fits the rider but it does. A bit shorter is much easier to ride too but I find it so much easier to sell one that is at least 16.1 and I can get a lot more money for them.

[Vesper Sparrow]

I think a big part of it is natural presence too!

My vet insisted on putting 16.2 hands on my boy's Coggins, saying that there was no way he was 15.3, even though the BO tried to set him straight. I sticked him the day after and he still measured 15.3....

[tarragon]

I wouldn't get worried about your filly just yet. My filly is a first foal out of her dam, and I'd always heard first foals are smaller too. She was definitely the smallest foal at her inspection, but most of the others were little older than she was. Her dam is a little over 16.1 and sire is 16.2, and my filly is already 16.1 3/4 at not quite 3 years old.

As a taller woman (5'9, most of it leg), I generally do like a taller horse, or at least one that takes up my leg- it's just awkward to me to have my feet dangling down below my horse's barrel. A lot of it, though, is body type. My 16.1 big-bodied mare takes up my leg more than my trainer's 17.2 slab-sided gelding does, and I don't feel like I look big on the mare at all, but on the 16.1 fine-boned ArabX I felt gargantuan.

[Daydream Believer]

That stallion of yours is gorgeous BTW. He looks like the complete package to me!

Thanks! :)

[ASBJumper]

OM - I've resigned myself to the fact that there's simply no way of predicting height... anything can happen. My friend has a mare whose WB parents are both over 17hh.. mare was a good sized yearling.... mare is now 15.2 and a smidge at 7 yrs old. :confused: WTF??! LOL!!

And in my case? I bred my 15.1hh mare to a 17hh stallion whose kids are all REALLY TALL, like many many are over 17hh. The resulting filly is 15.3hh at 5 yrs old (was exactly 13.3hh on her first birthday).

I bred the same 15.1hh mare to a 16.2hh stallion who is producing averaged-sized horses, often between 16 and 16.1hh. The resulting colt is now almost 11 months and stands 14hh at the withers, 14.3hh behind. He is going through a growth spurt right now and will likely be pushing 14.1hh on his first birthday... go figure??!! :lol:

[PNWjumper]

I was just given a stunning 15.1h (MAYBE pushing 15.2) dutch mare because the barn that had her just couldn't find anyone to buy her. She seems so tiny compared to my other horses...I mean seriously, she feels like she's half the size of my 15.3h AO Jumper. She's perfect over the fences, scopey as anything, has a huge stride (bigger than my 15.3h mare, in fact) and stunning to boot. It just blows my mind that people weren't beating down the door to get her just because she's 2 or 3 inches shorter than most people want. Boy am I excited to play around with her this summer!

I guess my feeling is that size only matters if you're planning on selling the horse. And it's not that a short horse isn't saleable, you just have to look a little bit harder to find someone. I feel like a 16+h horse is marketable to anyone (even those looking for smaller horses) whereas a small horse isn't marketable to those who "have to have" a bigger horse. And, in regards to jumping, the reason size matters to a lot of people is the assumption that a smaller horse isn't going to have the step to get down the lines (from a jumper perspective, it's not just going down the lines in a "lopey" manner, but the ability to get through something like a triple combination).

I know your comment was more directed at the fact that you "pinged" when the vet said that, but I think that's a natural reaction to hearing something that you hope isn't true even if it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. And I agree with what others have said.....baby size doesn't mean a whole lot. I've had big horses that started out life tiny and small horses that started out life huge.....you just never know!

[Go Fish]

I take it this baby is destined for the hunter/jumper ring?

If it has the step and the jump, size doesn't matter.

I have a 38" inseam, so I need a horse with some SIDE, not necessarily SIZE.

[showjumpers66]

We have a really tough time selling horses that are less than 16.1 hands. A lot has to do with the "step" for the hunter ring. There is a market for small juniors, but they need to be the whole package and right at 15.3 hands.

I wouldn't worry about the size of your foal yet. I have seen small foals mature to a large size and large foals be average sized at maturity.

[kdow]

I can understand needing a larger horse to take up your leg if you are taller or long legged, but often these people overlook the fact that what they really need is a horse with a bigger barrel, not more height! And yes, I do think that some people with long torsos look "odd" on short horses.

Yeah, I'm a long torso person with shortish legs. (Figures, right? Just what I need to ride horses! :) ) My favorite lesson horse was the guy built more on the slim-barrel side (he had good bone, just wasn't hugely rounded out at the girth like a couple of the other horses) who was somewhere between 15.3 and 16.1 hands, at a guess.

I just felt like I fit best on him, in terms of being able to use my leg and in terms of the look. One of the other horses was 14.3 or so, and while I could use my leg on him fine, I always felt like I looked a little big/out of proportion.

(I think it also comes in that I've always been more muscular than slim, so a short and refined horse can look a little badly matched. My favorite guy had nice solid looking legs - I think he had some draft in him somewhere along the line - and a nice but not dainty head. So I think that helped, too. :) )

Though all that said, it does come back to personality after all, since I liked him most because we got along very well. :)

[Oldenburg Mom]

I know your comment was more directed at the fact that you "pinged" when the vet said that, but I think that's a natural reaction to hearing something that you hope isn't true even if it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Gee, I wish I was as articulate as you ... that's EXACTLY right. Which is why I came here to discuss it.

What also bothers me, and I'm sure this hits home with a lot of folks out there, babies are like kids: you want them to be better than all the other kids at school because they're YOUR kids and you see only their most wonderful, brilliant, and remarkable traits.

*sigh* Life just isn't like that. Nope, nope, nope. The only thing ANY of us can do is just keep taking the next step along the road we've set ourselves. At my age the road ahead is far shorter than I'd like to admit...

Pix: too dark and rainy last night ... as soon as I can, I'll get some pix. Let's see what you all say when you see him.

[hessy35]

Ok, vet came today for spring shots, and one of my mare's foals was a little bit under the weather so he took a look. Probably just a little bug, nothing to get hysterical about (famous last words!)

HOWEVER, he did say the foal was on the small size ... but hastened to add, "But with warmbloods you never know!" And of course, Baby-Dumpling is the mare's first—which apparently tend to run a little smaller???

Ok, says I. Better I know now. Mama is 16.2 Daddy 16.1. He's suggesting 15.2. Ok, again, I know this is a guess...he might end up being 18 hands (NOT!!) But, I must admit to all, it did "ping" a little.

DOES size really matter that much, at the end of the day? I know we can all point to various smaller horses that have competed against the big boys (can you spell Teddy?) but in the grand scheme of things I think smaller horses (15-16) are not the norm in competition. So, DOES it really matter???

I'm sitting on the fence, because my intellect say No, it doesn't matter—while my heart says, "You bet it matters!!"

Opinions?

I think it matters a lot in Sport Hoses. Wish it didn't, but it just does. I'd wait a while. You just never know if that baby will shoot up or not.

[Oldenburg Mom]

I think it matters a lot in Sport Hoses. Wish it didn't, but it just does. I'd wait a while. You just never know if that baby will shoot up or not.

Yes, but will it reach the stock tank ... and will the judges really BELIEVE that the hose has they same reach as, say, a GARDEN hose?

(my apologies ... I just couldn't resist!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:)

[whbar158]

It really is all about the total package too. My horse is small 15.1, and we have done the 3'6" hunters. What is interesting about him is that he is a bulky QH and looked like he is 16h when he is in the ring by himself which makes his short stride look even shorter because he looks like he is a bigger horse with a short stride.

I have seen an increase of smaller horses in our NCHJA shows and they DO jump better than the huge ones and do beat them even if they are a little faster. I hate to see little people on huge horses and having trouble with them.

I think it is important to get a horse that fits you and the job and size to me matters more with fit of you than the job.

I have ridden and shown horses from 15h-17h and I am 5'2" smaller ones are usually more fun :)

[Oldenburg Mom]

I have ridden and shown horses from 15h-17h and I am 5'2" smaller ones are usually more fun :)

Why do you think this is true? More responsive, perhaps? Why would a smaller horse be more or less responsive than a larger one ... is it, yet again, back to that old problem ... TRAINING?

[sid]

The smaller package may give a feeling of being more "nimble" -- and that's a good feeling!

[quietann]

The smaller package may give a feeling of being more "nimble" -- and that's a good feeling!

It certainly is! My little (15 hand) Morgan is very much a "sportscar" -- super-responsive to shifts in weight, very maneuverable, with occasionally "iffy" brakes :lol: My trainer, who is used to riding big WBs (her personal horse is 17.3), got vertigo the first time she rode my mare.

I am 5'1" and slightly "fluffy" as well as being a re-rider, so when I went horse shopping I wanted something small and athletic. I've met several older women who are trading in their huge WBs for something smaller... maybe not as small as my mare, but it sure is nice to feel like the ground isn't quite so far away.

Just as an example for horse-rider size matching, here's a photo of me on the mare (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/33cc22aa11bb/Horses/Feronia/IMGP4801.jpg) versus a photo of me on the other horse I ride, who is a big-boned 16.1 hand Canadian WB gelding (http://annsrats.com/horses/greenacres2008-07-06/jhappytrump.jpg). I absolutely love the gelding, but getting my leg around him is difficult. And if the mare is a sports car, the gelding is a big old Cadillac, squishy suspension and all.

Now of course things may be different at the top of the market, where a certain sized horse is just the norm, but there *is* a market for smaller horses, too.

[smilton]

I think it depends on the rider and the horses ability
I would honestly say I would love to be able to ride ponies. The agility and quick response you get from smaller horses you just can't find in the 17h+'ers. Plus you don't have far to fall when the little boogers pull a pony stunt. Unfortunately I make my 16.3h 1300lb gelding look like a pony. I have difficulty riding anything under 16.1 that isn't built like a tank unless I jack the stirrups up to my arm pits. At 150lbs and 5-10 I'm not that huge but until you see me on a horse you wouldn't believe my magical ability to creat ponies.
I'm currently shopping for my next giant and I'm ashamed to say I have a 17h cut off and I envy pony jockeys. If I could ride a little horse I would.

[Oldenburg Mom]

quietann ... GORGEOUS mare ... may I ask, Why aren't you a member of the "OMGiH I loff my mare" clique??? She is a stunning color ... and that mane and tail are ... well, you two work very very well together. I just loff my mares...simply adore them.

[Sakura]

The smaller package may give a feeling of being more "nimble" -- and that's a good feeling!

17+hh = tanker

15hh = motor boat

:)

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

He could just be a slow grower. I met a lady at the training barn who has a 4 year old by the same sire as my guy. She said he was short forever and she was worried and when he turned 3 sprouted up to 16.1

[hessy35]

Yes, but will it reach the stock tank ... and will the judges really BELIEVE that the hose has they same reach as, say, a GARDEN hose?

(my apologies ... I just couldn't resist!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:)

LOL.. my bad.. too funny.

[Boomer]

My preference is 16 -16.3 h, but I would consider 15.3, maybe less, depending on if the horse had a more substantial build. I'm 5'8" so I always feel like a giant on anything less than 15.3.

I've got a TWH that is 15h and I do rider her occassionally, but I always feel huge on her.

My home-bred boy is 17.1 h (a tad ;) larger than I was hoping for) out of my 16h mare by a 16.3 hand stallion. I feel some-what gnat like on him, but when I see pictures of us, we look well fitted.

[MistyBlue]

Why do you think this is true? More responsive, perhaps? Why would a smaller horse be more or less responsive than a larger one ... is it, yet again, back to that old problem ... TRAINING?

Not the training.

Smaller horses are more adjustable, quick and agile.
Think of the difference between a gymnast (ever see a 6'3" tumbler?) and a supermodel. While both can be trained to do tumbling passes...who will do it faster, more precise and better? :winkgrin:
Or for riding...really oversized horses are like driving a firetruck. Smaller horses like a sports car. And yes, even in jumpers. You can change the amount of strides you use in jumpers. ;) Not to mention about 80% of a jumper course is done on the ground and it's usually won or lost there and not in the air. Try taking some inside turns with a 17.3 firetruck. Then try it again on 15.2.
In dressage...I cringe seeing the amount of small people on gigantic horses...since they tend to ride pretty defensively trying to control a whole lotta stride and horse body. And I mean the average every day riders and competitors...not Olympians. Despite the fact that many normal everyday equestrians think they're Olympic material, they're not. So they probably don't need Olympic level enormous animals.
Soooo...does size mattter? Yup, to the buying public that assumes they're capable of more than they are...or that they'll be accomplishing more than they actually will. Not to say they all can't...just very few people have the time, training, income, resources and natural talent to hit those levels. But they think they do...or they think because they see 17.3hh on TV competing all the time they need that too. The equate the look of a large horse with success or acceptance sicne that's what they see.
In reality, the height of the horse doesn't matter. So buyers for the shorter ones will either be shorter women, reriders who want a shorter height to possibly tumble from or to more easily get on and the riders who will buy the best horse for the job regardless of it's size because they're honest about themselves and don't care what the other folks on the show grounds will think. ;)

[kookicat]

I like a smaller horse. They are so much easier on themselves than a bigger horse. Plus, it's not so far to fall! ;)

[DMK]

Several of us were talking about the future of show jumping and more than a few of us think the days of Cumano and Cumano knock offs may be reaching an end. It does seem to be about the smaller, lighter WBs with a bit more blood, sort of like Oki Doki, Flexible, Sapphire, Hickstead and a bunch of others I can't think of right now.

Not that a horse like Cumano isn't always going to be special, but he's special because he is such a freak - he's a big horse who can ride like a small horse - that doesn't happen with most big horses though. The point is today's courses require a lot of adjustment, especially WC type courses - monster course slike WEG and the Olympics only come along every couple years, and courses like Spruce meadows and Aachen aren't exactly popping up all over. So when a small adjustable horse like Hickstead can win over a big course and that type of horse is usually favored over an indoor course ... well, I think there is a reason why you see a lot more smaller jumpers today than you did even 5 years ago.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Just as an example for horse-rider size matching, here's a photo of me on the mare (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/33cc22aa11bb/Horses/Feronia/IMGP4801.jpg) versus a photo of me on the other horse I ride, who is a big-boned 16.1 hand Canadian WB gelding (http://annsrats.com/horses/greenacres2008-07-06/jhappytrump.jpg). I absolutely love the gelding, but getting my leg around him is difficult. And if the mare is a sports car, the gelding is a big old Cadillac, squishy suspension and all.

Wow! I think the palomino and you are a great fit size-wise and she is stunning as well. :) I bet you are just tickled with her.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Ok, just sticked my guy. He's 13.1 at almost 11 months (DOB 6/10/2008) BUT, I also did a weight tape on him ... he's 565 lbs. I think he might be a little brick outhouse.

But he IS growing!

[YankeeLawyer]

Ok, just sticked my guy. He's 13.1 at almost 11 months (DOB 6/10/2008) BUT, I also did a weight tape on him ... he's 565 lbs. I think he might be a little brick outhouse.

But he IS growing!

Generally I find you can add approx 2 hands to the yearling height to predict final height, but some are late bloomers and some stop growing early. My Florencio filly was 15 hands at 12 months and 16.1 at 2 years old, but has slowed a bit and I think will finish at about 16.3. But Sam was 13.2 at 2 (yes TWO) and finished at 15.2, so you never know....

[back in the saddle]

Just as an example for horse-rider size matching, here's a photo of me on the mare (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...a/IMGP4801.jpg) versus a photo of me on the other horse I ride, who is a big-boned 16.1 hand Canadian WB gelding (http://annsrats.com/horses/greenacre...happytrump.jpg). I absolutely love the gelding, but getting my leg around him is difficult. And if the mare is a sports car, the gelding is a big old Cadillac, squishy suspension and all.

Can I ask how tall you and the mare are? You look perfect on her.

[Sakura]

Ok, just sticked my guy. He's 13.1 at almost 11 months (DOB 6/10/2008) BUT, I also did a weight tape on him ... he's 565 lbs. I think he might be a little brick outhouse.

But he IS growing!

Are you still feeding Horse Sense??? My long yearling Arabian was that size... you may need to give him something that is formulated for young, growing horses...

[quietann]

Just as an example for horse-rider size matching, here's a photo of me on the mare (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...a/IMGP4801.jpg) versus a photo of me on the other horse I ride, who is a big-boned 16.1 hand Canadian WB gelding (http://annsrats.com/horses/greenacre...happytrump.jpg). I absolutely love the gelding, but getting my leg around him is difficult. And if the mare is a sports car, the gelding is a big old Cadillac, squishy suspension and all.


Can I ask how tall you and the mare are? You look perfect on her.

Thank you :)

I am 5'1" plus a little if I stand real tall :) and weigh about 140 pounds. Maresy is 15 hands with front shoes on, and probably weighs 900 pounds or so. She's fairly lightly built for a Morgan.

(and since people seem interested, here's a relatively recent conformation shot: http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/april2009/indoor2.jpg. She is not perfect -- among other things, she toes in, which of course isn't visible in this shot -- but she's a nice little mare.)

I tend to look the best on anything from 14.1 to 15.1 hands and am fine on a sturdy medium pony (13+ hands) as well. When I was still jumping, I found that the ponies didn't have enough neck out in front of me, though. Had one bad fall because the pony just could not lift his front end and me over a jump larger than two feet.

But seriously, folks... there *is* a market for smaller sport horses; it's not the stratospheric market of the big WBs, but it's there, and I suspect it's growing.

[YankeeLawyer]

Are you still feeding Horse Sense??? My long yearling Arabian was that size... you may need to give him something that is formulated for young, growing horses...

That is a good point. When I bought my little guy (the aforementioned midge at age 2), I actually called a couple of nutritionists (one, at Purina, was particularly helpful) for advice, as my guy had been on 24/7 turnout and fed in a group of older horses where he was the low man on the totem pole and did not get his share. At the time, they did think he could catch up to his genetic potential, but it required carefully monitoring his diet to make sure it was optimal for him, and since he was already two at the time, we did not have a very big window to make that happen. As I said, he did end up growing another two hands, which was pretty good considering some had thought he might finish up a large pony or just over the line into neverland.

[Jessi P]

(and since people seem interested, here's a relatively recent conformation shot: http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/april2009/indoor2.jpg. She is not perfect -- among other things, she toes in, which of course isn't visible in this shot -- but she's a nice little mare.)

LOVELY mare!