Opinions on this horse

[jmac84]

I hope this is OK to do? I have been sort of shopping for a new horse. As an older rider no longer interested in taking on big challenging horses, I have developed an interest in Haflingers. I own a Haflinger mare now that I love, but I am not sure she is right for what I want to do - low level dressage (maybe through second level) eventing, hunter pacing, etc. I came across the horse shown in the following video clip. He just turned six. He was shown at TL last year and placed well locally. This clip was taken at a recent show where he did a Beginner Novice combined test (placed 3rd out of 17) and a first level dressage test (scored 65%). The clip is from the combined test dressage. I thought he was very cute, but a good friend of mine was fairly critical of his short stride behind. I definitely see that he gets a little quick and short and is not always tracking up, but was kind of thinking that it was a matter of a little tension (first show of the year for a six year old) and probably strength. Obviously, I will have to go see him to be sure, but was wondering what others think of the video? If it's more appropriate, you can PM your comments. Thank you!!

http://www.vimeo.com/4250997

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Looks a bit spunky in the jumping part... :)

I'm a haffie fan, have one sitting in the back yard right now. That being said, no way in heck would she ever be able to accomplish training level. She's built in all the wrong ways... But cute!

This guy is cute, yes a little short behind, i'm not sure i would blame it on tension being the first show of the year... Has some play in it possibly. What i see, and i have a hard time with small videos, he's just not quite built to really come under himself, giving you that short choppier stride behind. However, i do feel he is rushing and unbalanced, which also plays into not being able to stride up as well. I would like to see the rider slow him down some and learn to rock him back and sit a little in his rear.

Rarely do i see a haffie that can truely use its hind end. They are just not bred to be dressage ponies. Not saying there are not some FANTASTIC ones out there! This guy seems to me in the mediocre range. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but i dont see him going above 2nd. Which you say is about your goal... So, if i were you, i would go and try him. I'll buy a "not so perfect mover" if the attitude is right and our personalities mesh. You can go a lot farther on a horse you like than one you dont.

Me being a pony person, i would have to try him myself if i were looking to buy. Ponies have a big personality! You either click or you dont!

[slc2]

I seriously do not think this is a 'six year old nervous at his first show of the year short stride behind' type thing.

This is just the type of horse this is. He just doesn't have a big, sweeping gait. That just isn't how he moves. Sure, some schooling might make him a little smoother and a little more supple - work on suppling and strengthening. But it just isn't that type of horse. He's a little fellow with quicker, shorter strides.

He moves better in the free walk. That's more like how one would think he could be in the trot and canter, but it's not a HUGE difference with what he is like in the trot and canter now.

No, he's not going to win the Olympics, but he is LOVELY. He is forward, you would just want to be sure he isn't too sharp for you. He's unusually forward over jumps, you would want to be sure you can ride him to the jumps and not feel like he's too quick or strong.

[jmac84]

Thank you both! I really appreciate it. Because I just think Hafies are so darn cute, I think I was giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt. You both hit on the exact same issues my friend did. I agree in addition to looking a little short strided, he also looks a little sharper than I anticipated or want. He is described as having a "2" temperament and a horse anyone can ride, but that is not what I see over fences.

I got both lucky and unlucky with my mare. She is a surprisingly nice mover and very light to ride. Natural overtrack at the walk and easily tracks up at the trot. She does get quick which I think is a pony thing, but responds well to readjustment with half halts and leg. Unfortunately, she has had a somewhat inexplicable low grade lameness for some time and I just don't think she's meant to be a competitive dressage horse :(


Thanks again!! The search continues ...

[butlerfamilyzoo]

If you like Haffies but want something more competitive... Include in your search welsh cobs (section D). You have that "cute pony" baroque look, but (and depends on the horse/pony of course) they have huge strides, and usually a very nice temperament to work with. Only issue with them is that the power may take you off guard, you dont expect it coming out of that smaller body, nor do you expect it to feel the same as if you were riding 17h... :) Section Ds are 13.3h and up, typically you find them more in the 14h range as a norm, and many cob crosses tend to be nice too.

Good luck on your search! Lots of nice horses/ponies out there for sale right now!

[rabicon]

I think he is really cute and does nicely for his build. I think he needs a little work on the canter transitions and a little more march in his walk but he does a nice job and I'm no expert either so..... He looks well balanced for a 6 year old also. I'd say he'd probably top out at 1st level with decent scores but they will drop considerably at 2nd level (more than likely) It might help if the rider could post the trot on this young horse to help him not be so short in the back until he was a little older but at first level you don't have that option. He looks forward to the jumps but he's not fighting the contact of his rider and he just looks happy with his job and looks as if he really likes to jump. This is also a good thing though because he is probably not ever going to dump you by stopping dirty or running out. You might have to hold a little more but if you go with short reins and long arms you will be able to control him a little better and rate him more so than riding him deep seated and having long reins. I would not try to keep him in a "frame" going around jumping this can also make them be a little more frantic when jumping. If you do try him and jump him let him have his head a little more to the jumps, he might really surprise you. They probably say anyone can ride him because he looks almost point and shoot as a 6 year old and he really doesn't look that difficult just might need a little different riding. The only thing I'd say about jumping is if you want to go higher than 2'7 he probably will not be able to. He looks as if he is almost topped out and probably doesn't have the scope to move up to Novice level at 2'11. Good luck oh btw if you are looking for something easy to ride to go somewhere try looking at some qh crosses or good ole qh's that are built up hill. With the right confo a nice qh can do a lot in dressage.

[slc2]

omg rabicon, his walk is the best thing about him!

[rabicon]

Yea, but my horse walks just like that and thats our worst thing. All we get are 6's and needs more march on med. walk and needs more overstep in freewalk :lol: Their walks are identical, and I've been studying alot of walks lately to help my guy ;) But it is the best thing but it will need work. If he is scoring 65 at first level then he is probably getting better scores on the trot work and canter work than the walk.

[slc2]

This horse's free walk is absolutely lovely for this type of horse. But it just isn't a big swoopy loopy gaited horse. That's just how the horse is. And it's a very nice little horse for a little jumping a little dressage and a lot of fun.

[Bats79]

I like this pony and I think his walk shows how well he can move, as does his freedom in the shoulder at the canter.

But I think something, either training or physical, is off. He disunites FAR TOO MUCH in the canter in his jumping round. He changes in front and he changes behind, both on corners and in the straight line that leads me to see a bit of "extra" weakness there.

This makes me believe he could be quite a lot better than he is. I don't think it is unsoundness but rather a "trained or ridden in" stiffness and a bit more suppleing and strengthening work could see this pony developing a lot more cadence in his trot than you would expect. The hindquarter just isn't "there" yet.

Good luck in your search. :)

[hitchinmygetalong]

I agree completely with slc2. He is what he is, which is darn cute and he certainly appears to be quite a solid citizen. I was a bit concerned with some fussiness with his head, but I'm wondering if that might be a reflection on the rider, not the horse.

I hope you do go see him and report back to us as to whether he is as nice in person as he is in the video.

[stolensilver]

I like him too. He appears to have a good trainable brain on him which is worth far more than big gaits. I don't see any reason why he couldn't learn how to do half passes and flying changes with the right rider. If he's what you want go and see him and try him out.

Someone earlier recommended Welsh Ds as an alternative to a Haffie. While Welsh Ds are lovely horses/ponies they are generally pretty hot and fiery. Not something for someone wanting an easy ride. We have a lot of them over here and they can be outstanding athletes but very few of them are quiet. Fire breathing dragon would describe quite a few of them!

[goeslikestink]

I hope this is OK to do? I have been sort of shopping for a new horse. As an older rider no longer interested in taking on big challenging horses, I have developed an interest in Haflingers. I own a Haflinger mare now that I love, but I am not sure she is right for what I want to do - low level dressage (maybe through second level) eventing, hunter pacing, etc. I came across the horse shown in the following video clip. He just turned six. He was shown at TL last year and placed well locally. This clip was taken at a recent show where he did a Beginner Novice combined test (placed 3rd out of 17) and a first level dressage test (scored 65%). The clip is from the combined test dressage. I thought he was very cute, but a good friend of mine was fairly critical of his short stride behind. I definitely see that he gets a little quick and short and is not always tracking up, but was kind of thinking that it was a matter of a little tension (first show of the year for a six year old) and probably strength. Obviously, I will have to go see him to be sure, but was wondering what others think of the video? If it's more appropriate, you can PM your comments. Thank you!!

http://www.vimeo.com/4250997

what do you want to do-- if this suits your needs then you have answered your question

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Someone earlier recommended Welsh Ds as an alternative to a Haffie. While Welsh Ds are lovely horses/ponies they are generally pretty hot and fiery. Not something for someone wanting an easy ride. We have a lot of them over here and they can be outstanding athletes but very few of them are quiet. Fire breathing dragon would describe quite a few of them!

Mine is hot with big movement, but super light and easy to ride and i can trail ride her for hours on the buckle... While i havent been to an enormous amount of welsh shows, i've seen cobs that can "turn it on" in the ring when asked, and walk out like they were dead and be quiet as mouses being led around the grounds by kids... If buyer is ok with the "spunk" this guy shows in his jumping class, which i consider on the "hot" side, i would think she could suit many a welsh cobs. Yes, there are wacko ones in all breeds, and i would be interested to know what bloodlines are in your area, and no they are not for everyone... But i personally cant stand the dull sided kick and spur rides and LOVE my cob. You cant beat her brain.

My husband, breaking every safety rule in the book, but you and i both know we all did it at one time in our stupid years on old faithful... :lol:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/SDC10277.jpg?t=1240749009

Hot and crazy? no... But yes, she can turn it on in the ring when she wants to! (She was 4 and a half in that pic).

That being said, the Haffie in my back yard. You want to talk about crazy... She spooks at every imaginable monster she can make up... As a NINE yr old who rides and drives... Walk on the buckle? NO WAY! Haffies aren't exactly known for being "sane" either... She may move like a dead head western horse, but her brain is always looking for things to blow up over... :)

[stolensilver]

BFZ I'm in the UK so we have lots of Welshies over here. Many of them are hot! LOL! Obviously some of them are laid back and ideal for someone looking for a quieter horse but in the main I'd say they were higher energy than the average rider is looking for. If I was searching for an easy horse for a rider I'd be more likely to look at Connemaras and their crosses or small Irish Draughts as they are more likely to have a quieter temperament. Fells, Dales and Highlands can be laid back enough for a novice too. Of all the UK's native breeds I'd put the Welsh D as being the hottest.

[Parrotnutz]

as a hunter rider I have to say he doesn't look too quick....I would like to see him with a better ride as he looks choppy which I think is rider. The only time he sped up was at the end when she asked him to to get through the timers. The overall ride was Not smooth which makes it look like he may be a bit up....but I reserve judgement on that until I would see a better ride on him. He looked like he was cute and fun over fences.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

I guess maybe in the US we have breeds (in larger numbers) that are hotter, so i do not see my D as being "hot" to that extreme... Thinking arabs, saddlebreds, hotter "fire breathing dragon" type park horses that seem to brain fry over anything they can. (And i'm not bashing all of them either, the greatest lesson horse i ever owned that ANYONE could ride was an arab...) But to me, hot is spooking at everything on the planet, hauling your arms off, flying around the ring oblivious to their rider... The only Ds i've known in the US have not been that way. Yes, they can "turn it on" in the show ring, but have still been lighter to ride and sane. Maybe we imported the quieter lines. :) There are no where near the numbers here that you have though, so its hard to say when you do not see them around much. No one knows what to call mine when they see her out and about. We've taken her camping though, rode her down the trail for hours in a bareback pad, as a three year old. I rode her in a Christmas parade this past Dec after her being off all year due to my pregnancy, in a bareback pad, with about 60 other horses, 3 marching bands, and being followed by two fire trucks with lights going, horns honking, and sirens going... Her first parade. She got nervous and backed up a couple times over a dog dressed up like a sheep that she totally couldnt figure out. That was the worst of it. Now, did she prance and show off for the crowd.. Heck yeah, but lightly on the bridle and stopped and stood whenever i asked. :)

Menai breeding. Maybe they are quieter? Her colt is even quieter, keeping with the Menai lines, used to pony him down the trail as a weanling/yearling, best behaved foal i ever owned.

I consider QH our quietest native breed. I had a lovely one, broke her out myself, quieter than dirt... One day out of the blue, she started bucking in the arena (like a bronc, straight up roach backed), never figured out what caused it, she never did it again while i owned her, but i also never trusted her again either. Put me in the hospital with a concussion, thank god for helmets, i wouldnt be alive today otherwise. So again, good and bad in every breed! :)

[Chall]

I think he's very cute. One thing about him, he does seem to have the build to carry an adult. I have a 15h Arab, and love his height (I'm older) but I sometimes feel guilty that I may be too heavy for him. On your guy I don't think I would. That would be part of the whole equation for me.

[goeslikestink]

BFZ I'm in the UK so we have lots of Welshies over here. Many of them are hot! LOL! Obviously some of them are laid back and ideal for someone looking for a quieter horse but in the main I'd say they were higher energy than the average rider is looking for. If I was searching for an easy horse for a rider I'd be more likely to look at Connemaras and their crosses or small Irish Draughts as they are more likely to have a quieter temperament. Fells, Dales and Highlands can be laid back enough for a novice too. Of all the UK's native breeds I'd put the Welsh D as being the hottest.

i have had many a welsh still do, i find them intelligent and a good general a;ll rounder type
be a b c or d as i have each one as in sections
to me a good welsh or welsh cross you cant beat them for good competition ponies or horses
welshes are like border collies dont work them they get boulshy if you work them they will love you to death but they also are vvery independant horses and dont need fathing about with or modecodling
you handle them as alpha or they will walk or over you

[jmac84]

Well, I am looking to do low level dressage, maybe some eventing and hunter pacing. I would like to have a horse capable of working up to nice second level work and maybe novice eventing. What surprised me a little is that he was forth at the local regional dressage and combined training championships at training level last year and scored in the mid 60s at the same show that the video was taken from at First Level. I don't know what the competition or judging was like, but I was expecting bigger swingier gaits than what the video shows. (I know that is not what Hafies are known for, but if you go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSDXbEqJ7gQ and check out Navaho, you will see what some of the more modern ones can look like - I keep hoping I find an extra 10k under my bed to buy him!) He is not tracking up at the trot much at all, and gets tight and up and down at the canter - presents a nice picture though and is very obedient so that may be why he does well. They are asking 18k though which seems high. I may still go see him because he is just so darn cute!

[slc2]

the schooling alone on that pony is worth twice that.

[jmac84]

Wait slc - which pony is worth 36k - the one in the first video, or Navaho, the one in the video I just posted the link to?

[jmac84]

Just to clarify - Its the first pony that is listed at 18k. The asking price on Navaho is 30k. Both may very well be worth it - If I had the money in the bank waiting to be spent, I would absolutely love to own a pony like Navaho :) I just love him, and they've done a great job with his training. He is owned by Cedar Lane Farm, and they are breeding and training some fabulous modern Hafies.

[Valentina_32926]

You should be able to take this horse to second level - not sure how competitive he will be BUT a LOT of that depends on you. You can improve his choppy stride somewhat - it won't be a miracle but for second level you should be fine. Looks like a nice steady Eddy.

[rabicon]

The 2nd pony is NICE :yes: He is worth more I would say than what they want. The pony your looking at to me is not worth what they are asking. I would say maybe 12,000-14,000. But thats mho. You can find much nicer calm horses and ponies for 18K :yes:

[jmac84]

That was my friend's reaction to the first pony as well - cute but there are nicer ones out there for the price. She doesn't think he will be competitive at recognized shows with his limited gaits. Would be a great pony club type pony though.

As for the second one, I am kicking myself because he was originally advertised by the trainer at $24k, but then that ad was pulled (probably owner/trainer miscommunication) and now they are asking $30k. I was going to consider stretching myself to make a reasonable offer based on the first asking price, but I don't think they would take that now. Oh well :(

[equusaround]

I liked both ponies but they are different. The first pony is darling - a lovly happy pony that seems to enjoy being ridden. But, he is hampered by his conformation is performing up to "warmblood" standards. He is a pony. He has pony gaits and not a ton of scope. I'm sure with great riding he could do a 3'3" course, but it would require excellent riding at evey fence. I'm also sure he can do 2nd or 3rd level with good training and riding, but he will never have the gaits to be competitive. But, he could be a lot of fun and a great friend. He looks lovely in his lower level test - a very steady eddy.

Navaho has a lot more training and is more "horse-like" in his gaits. He is trained to 3rd level and schooling 4th. He too will not be competitive againist warmbloods (although more than the 1st) but he'd be a great kids horse or a horse for an adult rider who wants a smaller package mount that can get through 3rd level or maybe higher (my former trainer took an Icelandic GAITED pony through all the movements of GP, so it is possible if they have a good mind).

I have no idea about the price of Haflinger ponies. The prices you quoted sound like warmblood prices in this economy so you might want to check prices and make a reasonable offer.

Good luck and have fun!

[merrygoround]

Yes!! He is cute. He did though appear to be running. The video was a little uneven in its play and it was hard to discern but I saw little give in the riders hands at any gait. In the jumping phase, he got faster, and faster. His rider was calm cool and collected.

The question is....are you on for that?

The second pony was far more adjustable, and really quite nice.

I don't feel qualified to comment on pricing really but will anyhow. I think theyar both priced quite high. Perhaps I've spent too long here out on the wilds. :lol: :lol:

[rabicon]

http://www.qualitydressagehorse.com/ Check out Jazzabelle, she is suppose to be very easy and she is nice for the same price as that hafilinger pretty much. There are so many out there that can be competitive for you and easy in that price range. Already scoring 72 at her first show in training level and she is young still :eek: And may I suggest connemaras are amazing little jumpers, usually calm and sane, they are adorable and can make really nice dressage horses.

[equusaround]

I wouldn't recommend a 3 y.o. filly for a rider who up front states she doesn't want a hot horse or a challenge. Youngsters are unpredictable at times even if they are saints! An older rider who doesn't want to be over-faced shouldn't get a 3 y.o. PERIOD!

The OP was quite correct in looking for a well started small horse or large pony for herself.

Sorry for the rant.

[stolensilver]

Those two ponies are HOW MUCH???? I'm stunned. The people selling the first one must be having a laugh. I thought he was going to be $5000 or under. No way is he ever going to be worth $18,000.

The second pony is beautifully schooled but from watching his videos he isn't confirmed in his changes yet and has another 1-2 years of work needing to be done on his pirouettes to make them good enough to show a judge. His price is astronomical for what he is.

Do Haflingers command a premium price in the US?

[slc2]

I think the second video is a nice horse.

I'm not sure, but the thing is, there are people who really like Halflingers and would pay a lot for a schooled one. There' just aren't that many people like that :)

Both asking prices seem a little high for this market, but they are asking prices, not what the horses have sold for.

Horses that do more than first level, that are rideable and have show experience, are never really cheap.

When someone really, really has a 'breedism', and really, really wants to show THAT breed in dressage, the sale price does funny things, like goes up and up, so it's hard to say.

[purplnurpl]

I didn't read all of the replies. I checked out the first page of them though.

did anyone notice this horse cross cantered for 1/2 of the jumping test?
And the reason he gets a little quick before the fences is because he is so underpaced in general. I wanted to chase them with a crop when they circled to the first fence. Two point would help greatly--along with allowing him to move with more impulsion...maybe even allow him to sort out the rear end issue.

Not a fan of one that never even tries to correct his cross canter, not to mention counter canter while cross cantering and then jump from that stride. oooops!

Anyway. He's totally cute!!! I'd check him out in a heart beat. I'd also have a really good lameness specialist do his hind end flexions.

[jmac84]

Thanks again everybody - I think for all of the above cited reasons, I am going to pass on the first one. Mostly, I do think he is overpriced in light of his general quality. I don't want to kid myself into thinking, "well maybe if he develops more strength, is ridden more over his back - then he'll be a world beater" LOL. I keep telling myself "what you see is what you get and take off the rose colored glasses". I am trying to focus on what I really in real life want and need and not what I would like in a dream world. Ideally, well started, ready to show and hopefully, on a good day, be competitive at the lower levels against the big boys, great brain, type that can be a dressage pony one weekend and hunter pacer/trail blazer the next, safe in the barn around my daughter, etc. That is one thing that appealed to me about the first pony. He supposedly fox hunted last fall, is a lesson pony for some of her students and allegedly can be ridden by most anybody.

[RidesAHaflinger]

Ideally, well started, ready to show and hopefully, on a good day, be competitive at the lower levels against the big boys, great brain, type that can be a dressage pony one weekend and hunter pacer/trail blazer the next, safe in the barn around my daughter, etc. That is one thing that appealed to me about the first pony. He supposedly fox hunted last fall, is a lesson pony for some of her students and allegedly can be ridden by most anybody.

If these are the things you're looking for and if you're already sold on Haflingers, I think this guy would make you very happy. I base that on watching not only the video you posted but also the one at their website where he is being ridden in a lesson by what they say is a beginner. He looks pretty darned saintly to me and I believe I would trust him to fill your wish-list, including being safe for your daughter. Is he a little rough around the edges in places? Well, yes, but good grief he's only SIX! With the training he already has in place and another year or so of consistent good training, I bet he'd meet or exceed your goals and you'd have great fun getting him there. My 6 y.o. cross-canters. It's not the end of the world. Working him over ground poles and cavaletti (and monthly chiro adjustments) are helping him get stronger and more balanced and he'll get it all sorted out eventually. My 8 y.o. canters beautifully!

The price is high, given the current overall market for Haflingers which is pretty much in the tank and has been for years now. If you are truly interested in him it never hurts to see how much negotiating room there is in the price. If it was me I'd also like a little evidence about the fox-hunting he's done. If he's truly been out and about and handled all of that well, I'd be especially inclined to latch onto him. That temperament, experience and exposure in a young Haflinger bodes very well for the future. They live a long time, you know. And if you're anything like me (and it sounds like you are), you have somewhat modest ambitions as far as competition goes but a definite standard for the safety and reliability (and fun!) you want in a horse. A trusted, gorgeous and willing golden equine (or two) to see you through your own golden years is...well, it's priceless. :D

[rabicon]

I wouldn't recommend a 3 y.o. filly for a rider who up front states she doesn't want a hot horse or a challenge. Youngsters are unpredictable at times even if they are saints! An older rider who doesn't want to be over-faced shouldn't get a 3 y.o. PERIOD!

The OP was quite correct in looking for a well started small horse or large pony for herself.

Sorry for the rant.


My point is that there are nicer ones out there to do what she wants and be competitive for the price of the one she posted. The pony is 4 and is said to be calm and children ride her so it would take riding and trying to make sure. And there are 4 year olds out there calmer than any 10 year old. We have one here. Anyways my point was not to go run and buy this pony or try it but to show the op that there are some cute nice ones out there and imo the haffie is priced to high.

[jmac84]

Thank you RidesaHaflinger for that insight! And for mentioning the lesson video because I hadn't seen it. It is interesting because I almost like the way he moves in that video better. He just looks looser behind. I did notice though that he is in a standing martingale. I am not sure I would call that rider a "beginner" either, so I am not sure it tells me he is "bombproof" (not that I expect that).

I would be interested in other folks thought on that video, to the extent anyone is still ready to indulge me :) If you follow the first link, there are additional videos to the side with one of Peanut in lesson.

Thanks again - I keep going back and forth on whether to see this guy or not. I feel funny about saying "I'll come down to see him, but only if the price is highly negotiable because I think he is over priced"?

[rabicon]

Still don't see 18K, and now I think I'd say more around maybe 10K if that. The horse looks safe for a beg. maybe. lol He seems to be a little irratated in the video and he looks as if he is going to take a lot of strength to ride. He wants to counterbend so you are going to have to probably use a lot of inside leg to keep him from doing it and he looks as if he can be a handful in this video more to me than the other. He also doesn't seem to track up as much with the right back leg than the left. He is cute and if you really like him that much, you know the saying, a horse is worth what someone will pay for him. If you really like him go try him and if you love him than buy him. Its your money and your choice we are just here giving our opinions. And the are like you know what, and everyone has one. good luck:D

[jmac84]

yes, Rabicon, when I looked again at the video I also thought he seemed to track up unevenly behind. (But I also probably see things that aren't really there because of my recent history with a NQR horse!) I am also somewhat suspicous of the controlled setting he is in - Its not as if the student is riding him in a big outdoor, and I question the martingale.

[RidesAHaflinger]

I did notice though that he is in a standing martingale. I am not sure I would call that rider a "beginner" either, so I am not sure it tells me he is "bombproof" (not that I expect that).

I saw the martingale too and I have to say it did not concern me in the slightest. I don't know why they had it on him but I saw no evidence in any of the videos to indicate he throws his head. I thought he looked like a steady and honest 6 y.o.

Thanks again - I keep going back and forth on whether to see this guy or not. I feel funny about saying "I'll come down to see him, but only if the price is highly negotiable because I think he is over priced"?

:lol: I can see how that would be a tad uncomfortable. However, unless the price says "firm" or "not negotiable" my assumption is there is wiggle room. How much wiggle room is always the $64,000 question. Best of luck whatever you decide!

[HCF]

Actually in the lesson video, he's not in a standing martingale, but draw reins. Don't know that I would put a beginner on a pony with draw reins!! And I agree that he's not even in the back end in that video - not consistently throughout the video, but at times. Still, if the price is negotiable (18K is too much!!), he's very cute and worth taking a look at!