Persistent Foal Diarrhea...Updated on pg 2

[Daydream Believer]

My first Col Spanish foal, the curly coated filly, has had "scours" or now I think just diarrhea for over a week. She has not acted sick, continues to eat and play, and her temp is normal...so there is no emergency here but I'm getting frustrated trying to clear this up. She is three weeks old today. She maxed out her IgG test also so no problems there.

I noticed it first about a week ago and thought it might be a late foal scours showing up. I kept her clean and kept an eye on it. I decided over the weekend when it did not clear up, to try some BioSponge. One tube of that in three doses (small foal) and no change. I wondered if she got a touch of threadworms so two days ago I gave her a little ivermectin. Not my first choice but I've seen it work before. Nothing...if anything her poo is runnier now.

I noticed her eating manure this morning so I picked up some Probios gel. She got a 10 cc dose of that tonight. I've been cleaning her up daily and she's getting sore.. even using Shiney Hiney to help with chaffing.

She acts absolutely fine otherwise. The poo is very dark and quite liquid now. Mare is obviously out of foal heat by 21 days.

Can anyone think of anything I've missed or should try? I took her temp this a.m. and it was 99.4 F so perfectly fine. Other than the diarrhea, she acts normal. I'm trying to decide if I should call a vet or what now or if I'm just overworrying things.

One other thing...she's been in at night but starting tomorrow I was going to put her and her dam back out after evening feed to see if the "cleaner" environment of the pasture helps. It's been either cold or damp here and I've been careful with her as she has such a short fine coat.

I appreciate any input or suggestions. :)

[Signature]

Hi! :) Could she be drinking water? We had a foal that would nurse but also drink water and she had constant loose stool because of it we were told. Never hurt her luckily and she never acted sick or anything! :D

[Daydream Believer]

Thanks!

Well...come to think of it, I have seen her playing in the water at the trough but I am not sure if she's drinking or not. Hmmm...I will watch her tomorrow. I will be here all day. Also, maybe in the stall she's playing in the buckets too.

Good thought! Poor thing will have not hair on her hiney either. She's so tender now after a week of washing and fussing that we did not wash her tonight...thought we go every other day and hope she doesn't lose her hair.

Poor baby! I hate it when they are not 100%.

[not again]

Is the mare's milk really rich?
We continue with the pro-biotics with any of our foals until the loose stool has resolved. And the generic baby oil (lavender scented) works really well for the scald around the tail. We poke a hole in the safety seal and can aim for the whole area and also squirt the tail so the diarahea is easier to remove.
Babies sure love to play in the water buckets to worsen the situation, don't they!
Good luck with your cutie!

[Daydream Believer]

Anne,

I'm not honestly sure about the milk. None of her other foals ever had scours like this. This is her fifth foal.

Thanks! I think baby oil is a great idea! It ought to make it much easier to clean up. I have some mineral oil up at the barn already that should do. I looked it up and it's the same ingredients less the fragrance. :-)

How much Probios do you give and how often? I gave about 10 cc tonight and thought I'd do another dose in the morning perhaps....or maybe only go 24 hours? I don't want to overdo it. I've never used Probios on a foal so I'm a bit uncertain. It says on the tube to give 10cc to newborns and then 4 days later another 10 cc's....obviously that's as a preventative rather than to treat chronic diarrhea.

[Equilibrium]

Daydream,

I have one mare who's foals all scour like your describing. After many tests to find out my foals were healthy I started them on boring ole yougurt. I too had bio sponge which did not work. The yougurt helped and I keep them on it for a good 2 weeks. I'm guessing the mare's milk is really rich and it doesn't help that each of her foals are little piglets!

Terri

[pintopiaffe]

Ditto the baby oil--but watch for sunburn!

Hang the water bucket too high for bebe, or outside of stall door (Mum has to reach over to drink) if you can... I bet she's drinking since all else is good.

Probios to Mum too. Up to 15cc for scours for foals... I like DynaPro better if you can get your hands on any, Ration Plus is similar...

Farms used to get Bismuth by the gallon jug... Pepto Bismol works fine, I can't quite remember the doseage, but someone here should remember--should be right about the same as for adult human if I'm recalling.

If it's just Mum's milk is too rich, not a heck of a lot you can do there... you already *don't* feed too rich... just your grass coming in might be enough with a good milker.

Obviously you know to keep an eye on the temp. Otherwise, it's just a sore hiney issue... My little guy a couple years ago was AWFUL, wasn't until later vet told me that the Regumate I was using to time her (delay foal heat) was the cause... :mad: I didn't know that... I tried everything. He HATED BioSponge (I find Miracle Clay is more well accepted, but doesn't quite have the same research to back it as the BioSponge) and I was dosing him daily with that, probiotics, etc. etc. etc. I too went to yogurt. I used vanilla organic. He actually LIKED that. :lol:

[Equilibrium]

Too funny, mine like the organic vanilla too!:D

Terri

[Equine Reproduction]

Pepto Bismol contains aspirin, which can thin the blood. Usually not a problem, but if there is an issue with the foal, it isn't worth the risk. Use Kaopectate.

Hope that helps!

[Daydream Believer]

Thanks everyone! I'll give some Kaopectate a try too. Can I give that an Probios together? Poor kid is already tired of seeing me headed at her with a tube of anything.

I went to her stall this am first thing and she was chowing down on her dam's manure again. Not sure if that could be a problem or if she's just trying to self medicate and get her gut better adjusted. I think the full turnout might help. We have a nice stretch of weather ahead with warm nights so I'm going to go for it. She bounced out this a.m frisky and playful so she's still feeling OK.

Funny about the grass idea PP, as this started about when I put her out in a grassier paddock during the day. The mare is a good milker also.

[Oakstable]

I just got a case of DynaPro if you want a bottle.

Sally

[Daydream Believer]

Sally,

Thanks! I would love a bottle. I will pm you.

[grayarabpony]

I second the Priobos, it worked well for my guy when he had trouble.

[Home Again Farm]

Other possibilities - eating sand? lactose intolerance? In 2004 when I pulled our little orphan Ballerina through pneumonia and clostridial diarrhea, she then became lactose intolerant. She kept up with darkish diarrhea but no other signs of any illness until she was 4 months old and off all milk products.

[Equine Reproduction]

I went to her stall this am first thing and she was chowing down on her dam's manure again. Not sure if that could be a problem or if she's just trying to self medicate and get her gut better adjusted.

So long as the mare is healthy and has no issues, that's a GOOD thing. It helps propagate the gut flora with good bacteria. It's also one of the things recommended for orphan foals - throw a shovel full of manure from a healthy horse in with the foal so that it can eat it. Yum!

Good luck!

[ise@ssl]

I would recommend BioSponge. Comes in tubes. Absolutely great for foals and youngsters - we've even used it on adult horses if they get some sort of loose stool problem.

[Hillside H Ranch]

I would recommend BioSponge. Comes in tubes. Absolutely great for foals and youngsters - we've even used it on adult horses if they get some sort of loose stool problem.

I think she tried the BioSponge with no change.

[Daydream Believer]

I think she tried the BioSponge with no change.

Yes, that is true. It has not helped.

Kathy, yes, I knew eating manure was not bad but it still makes me think "ick!" Her dam is who she's eating the poo from and Lodi is quite healthy and hale.

Lactose intolerance is an interesting idea. I've never had a foal do that before. I shudder to think of several more months of this! I wonder if there is an enzyme for horses like people who have this problem? I guess if it persists beyond another week, I will have to get a vet involved and maybe run some tests?

[winsmorefarm]

I would also recommend the Biosponge as well. I understand that she tried it, but perhaps the dosage needs to be increased and she may need to give it multiple times during the day, as the OP said that she only gave one tube, which may not be enough.

When my colt was younger he has similiar issue (over a few months). We wound up getting the Biosponge powder and mixed it with yogurt (Trader Joe's Banilla - banana and vanilla), along with a little beet pulp (which also acts as a prebiotic) and hand fed it to him, so mom would not inhale it. You can also mix powder with just yogurt and give it to foal orally.

He got it everyday and sometimes 2 - 3 times during mom's estrus cycle. Without it, he had constant diarhea (sp?). Then it just cleared up and we haven't had to give it to him since (now he's 10 months old). The vets checked him out and could not find anything wrong with him during that time.

Here's the link for more information on Biosponge, including standard dosing recommendations and a new video that gives a bit more info. on how Biosponge works: http://platinumperformance.com/animal/equine/products/productcategories/product.cfm?category_id=458

Hope your foal gets better.

[ise@ssl]

Did you take a fecal sample to your Vet? Actually you should take 2 - not from the same poop. Let them look at it under the microscope and maybe they can identify if there is a parasite or something else.

One tube of BioSponge is not enough - JMHO.

[RyTimMick]

Try Biosponge. The best thing is Mom's poop. Don't clean out the stall so much that the foal doesn't get around to eating it. Mom's poop works the best.

Tim

[EventerAJ]

I know of a farm that has had the EXACT same thing this year, with 4 foals. At about 2-3 weeks, they get really bad (shooting liquid) scours. Blood tests normal, no fever, fecal swabs inconclusive. Foals were still very lively, nursing well, otherwise completely healthy & normal except for the squirts.

They treated the foals with ProBios, Biosponge, and kaopectate. Probios and Biosponge twice daily, kaopectate three times a day. They used the biosponge powder, and mixed it with the kaopectate for those doses. None of these treatments produced a vast improvement, but after a week or so the foals seemed to get better. Never figured out the cause, I figure it may be worms (?) due to the lack of obvious disease. Also, the mares of the first two inflicted foals were new to the farm this season, so they may not have had the regular worming protocol of the rest of the herd.

They also used mineral oil, but in a spray bottle. Very easy!

[goodpony]

It would seem to correspond with increased Milk Production---You can try lactaid tablets or similar (for lactose intolerance). I would also keep up on the probios or yogurt.

[Tango14]

I had two fillies from the same breeding with inexplicable diarrhea almost from birth. The vets said equine lactose intolerance is extremely rare. Is it, and if it is are there any studies on this?

In every other respect they were both fine but it was so bad that the all the hair on either side of the butt came off. It had to be cleaned twice daily and mega amounts of lubricant used. Both were under vet care and the diarrhea persisted for almost two weeks. The first filly was given antibiotics and 48hrs later the diarrhea stopped. The second fillly was simply put on probiotics and it eased up. I wish I'd known about BioSponge and I also wish that I had known to test for possible Clostridium difficile and Clostridium perfringens infections.

Is it possible for a foal with either of these infections to recover without antibiotics or not?

[CrossWinds81]

I worked as a tech in a very prominent equine hospital in lexington, ky...ie loads of foals born, and plenty of foals w diarrhea in isolation. Maybe I'm just a tad on the safe side because of it, but I would at the very least take a fresh sample culture for diarrhea profile which will test for several things like Salmonella, clostridium, c perf, rota virus...etc. Could definitely be a lactose intolerance...we used regular off the shelf generic lactaid, prob just 1 1/2 tabs 4x per day if you're able to administer it that often. Might think about ulcers too. Does she grind her teeth? I also recommend putting her on the yogurt or probios. Also, something I found by accident researching Krohn's (my boyfriend has it)...chia seeds...yes, the same darn thing the use for chia pets...they are very good at regulating the digestive tract, maybe add a little slippery elm in as well to help with the mucous lining. They act similarly to flax...they get very gelatinous when soaked in h2o, but they also have a better amino acid and mineral complex and much higher more balanced Omega 3's in comparison to flax. My boyfriend has def noticed a huge difference since taking them...no more cramps, will settle stomach cramps and gasiness within minutes of taking it. Whole Foods sells them and you can find them online for even better deals. Lots of benefits from ingesting them yourself including possibly helping to level spikes in insulin. I'm a big fan of Immunall as well, you might give that a shot for a few days too. Have fun washing baby bums!!

[hluing]

I have become a foal diarrhea expert this year...Ugh!! I have had two colts that have battled this for around 2 months now. Never had temps, clean fecals, all bloodtests were inconclusive (at the beginning had slightly elevated WBC, slightly, which resolved by the retake). But they felt terrible when the loose stools flared up and my vet and I have tried everything. For supportive measures here is my routine.
Kaopectate (30 cc twice daily). In that mix one scoop of probios, one crushed rantitadine tablet (get at drugstore). Now when they had active diarrhea, they would get a 1/2 tube of probios paste twice daily and 30cc Biosponge twice daily. Up to 3 times daily in the beginning. I swear by both these products...but you have to use a big enough dose and frequently enough.
Good luck and keep us updated.
FYI-I suspected a pica type mechanism for my boys as well since not only did I see them eating some of mom's poop...they also occasionaly seemed to like a dirt snack. This seems to have improved over time....

[sfstable]

So long as the mare is healthy and has no issues, that's a GOOD thing. It helps propagate the gut flora with good bacteria. It's also one of the things recommended for orphan foals - throw a shovel full of manure from a healthy horse in with the foal so that it can eat it. Yum!

Good luck!

Icky but true !!

My c-section orphan colt (who was dead on arrival and revived) had problems with diarrhea. Turns out I was keeping his stall TOO CLEAN. I was so scared he would get sick because he had such a rough start that I was obsessive about keeping him clean. My vet took one look at his stall and asked "is it always this clean ?" He told me to throw manure in from my other broodmare but I just could not bring myself to purposely feed him poop.:lol:

I ended up doing live culture yogurt, powdered probios, and rantitadine tablets in his Buckeye milk replacer. This solved his problem and I was not grossed out :D

He is now a healthy two year old with healthy looking manure.

[Daydream Believer]

Thanks for everyone's ideas and input.

I wanted to give an update. Filly has now gone 24 hours without diarrhea! Woohoo! I think it was the Probios that finally did it. She has also been out since last evening versus in the stall overnight...so if she was playing in water buckets, she's had less opportunity for that also. My fingers are crossed that this run of luck continues.

It has been a great thread though and I have some great ideas now also if this happens again!

Thanks!