Not sure what to tell acquaintance - horse not suitable?

[twofatponies]

Any advice on this? A woman I don't know terribly well has a horse that is in some ways not suitable for her. Her trainer told her to sell him and get something she can actually ride. She is very hurt (she's a sensitive type) and asked me for my opinion.

My opinion is, I wouldn't ride her horse, because he's pretty civilized if you don't challenge him too much, but if you really need him to do something, he gets really big and strong and is very hard to control. She doesn't go there - she does a huge amount of ground work and some very light riding in very controlled circumstances. If she gets in a sticky situation, she gets off and does more ground work. I saw him get really pissy the other day when the trainer asked him to trot instead of canter, and he didn't feel like it. I said to the person next to me at the time, "I wouldn't get on that horse, that would be scary!"

What I said to the owner (because I feel like it's not really my place to interpret or opine on the trainer's opinion) is "are you enjoying what you are doing with him now, or do you wish you could do more with him?" and "it can be dangerous if a horse won't listen when you really need him to - what if you are riding and something unexpected happens, and you really need him to stop or go or turn *right now*, not have a big long conversation about it?" and told her it really had to be her decision.

I can't decide if I should have been more blunt about it. I think the horse is unsafe IF she wants to do more with him (show, trail ride, ride in groups, deal with any kind of distractions), but he's safe enough if she only does the things she does now (ground work alone in the indoor with the doors shut, etc.).

For me, i want to be able to go out and ride for miles and work on dressage and do mounted games with my friends on weekends, and so on, and I love having a horse that has the temperament and training to do those things with me. But maybe for her she's too nervous a person in general (horses aside) to really want to do those things... But if she had a mellow gentle horse, she might find the confidence to branch out a bit. She tends to perceive the horse acting up as him "being afraid"; I tend to think he has her number, and knows when he can ignore her and do what he pleases.

Anyway, I didn't know what good advice would be, and I came home feeling like I should have said more or less. I don't know. If she were a close friend I might have said more! But I felt like it wasn't really my place to tell her what I thought, so except for the above, I mostly listened. I'm unfortunately one of those good listeners. Sigh.

Any thoughts? Anyone else been in a similar situation?

[atr]

If she has asked for your opinion, give it, honestly.

If she has not, stay far, far away from it.

[twofatponies]

If she has asked for your opinion, give it, honestly.

If she has not, stay far, far away from it.

That was fast! I ran into her today and she asked me what I thought. I gave the waffly answer in my post... I could call her and talk more about it, or just drop it.

[Chief2]

If she has asked for your opinion, give it, honestly.

If she has not, stay far, far away from it.

I'm with you! If more people did that more often, think of how much less trouble would we all get into. And after you give it, get the heck out of Dodge! :D

[Laurierace]

If she is happy doing nothing other than ground work while locked away in an arena by herself then she should keep the horse. If she aspires to do more she should find a more suitable horse. Asks her what she wants to be doing with a horse and let her draw her own conclusion.

[BuddyRoo]

ditto....

But...since she DID ask....I'd maybe follow up with, "Look, I was kind of tiptoeing before because I knew you were upset. If you want to talk more about your horse, I'll lay it out there for you no frills. But at the end of the day it still really comes down to what YOU want and what YOU are comfortable with."

If I ASK someone what they think, I WANT the truth. Not a fluffy version. But there are a lot of people who ask and still don't want to hear it. So I think you were wise to tiptoe a wee bit.

[findeight]

Drop it.

If she asks, you can answer but it's her business. Proceed on tip toe, feelings are way to easily hurt and too much drama results.

Unless you do not care to keep any kind of relationship with her. Quickest way to run anybody off is to suggest they do not know what they are doing with the horse or that it's the wrong horse for them. It just makes them determined to prove you wrong-and hate your guts. Possibly sharing with others they hate your guts.

If you want or she asks again, why not suggest some lessons from a Pro experienced in dealing with these things. That way, you do not have to give your opinion, will not hurt her feelings and avoid the drama.

[Tiger Horse]

watched a fellow boarder struggle for two years with a horse that was unsuitable - everyone knew it. Trainer told her it was time to let go, find something she could actually have some fun with. After she fell off for the upteenth time, I finally approached her . . .

told her we were all concerned about her - she is single and in no position to get hurt, etc. Asked her some questions - was she having fun? Did she look forward to coming to the barn? Gave her a lot to think about - told her I'd been there too and I knew it wasn't easy to "give up", but . . . it was so worth it for me . . .

Within a few weeks she had decided to re-home her horse. Is taking some lessons and share boarding on a mare at the barn. She smiles when she rides now and she's almost ready to start looking for a new horse of her own. I couldn't be happier for her! :D

Moral of the story: sometimes you just have to hear, what you already know in your heart, from someone else.

[Drive NJ]

I'd probably have told her exactly what she asked for - your opinion (while I completely agree with those who said if no opinion was asked, I'd not give one).

From what you said the most helpful opinion you could give would be what you told the person standing next to you when you were watching him go

"I wouldn't get on that horse, that would be scary!" and then explain
"For me, i want to be able to go out and ride for miles and work on dressage and do mounted games with my friends on weekends, and so on, and I love having a horse that has the temperament and training to do those things with me. "

That would tell her that for YOU he's not the right horse. She can take it from there.

[fordtraktor]

When training I told more than one client that their horse was not suitable for what they wanted to do. Once I told a client that their horse was unsafe.

They either sold the horse or kept it depending on whether they were more interested in doing what they told me they wanted to do or keeping the horse. Most were initially upset but knew I was telling them the truth based on what they told me their goals were.

Either way, as a trainer I didn't take offense one way or the other. If they wanted to keep the horse, I was happy to continue training it or giving them lessons to help them do the best they could with what they had.

But I would never volunteer that information offhand. Periodically I would sit down for an "evaluation talk" about how things are going, and that is when I would bring up very serious issues like this.

I would never volunteer my opinion now unless asked. If I were you, I would not bring it up again unless she does. Then the previous poster's answer (It depends on what you want to do with him) is perfect.

[meaty ogre]

I was that person sort of. I got into horses as an adult, not knowing which side to get on/off. I enlisted the help of a "trainer" to find me a suitable horse. It was a bad match. An intolerant and sensitive but well-trained TB and a beginner rider with steady hands but unsteady everything else. Recipe for disaster. I suspected same early on, and asked friends since I knew little to nothing.

Give it time they said.
It can take a year to bond they said.
Maybe he just needs to be in full training.
Just longe him before every ride.
He needs time to settle into new barn/herd/routine they said.
Some gave me calming supplements or remedies to try.

But nobody said the obvious truth.

I wish SOMEONE...anyone...would have said to me, "Hey, Meaty, you don't know what you're doing well enough to ride that horse and you're gonna get your skull cracked if you keep trying. Better sell and get one who is better matched to your skills and what you want to do."

Eventually I figured it out but much, much later and very much the hard way.

Whether they listen or not is up to them, but the fact that this lady is asking you means she is already questioning this in her own head. Maybe she is like me and has a suspicion but wants an opinion to reinforce this since she doesn't know a lot. Maybe she thinks the trainer is nuts and is just looking for an opinion to refute him/her. Either way, I always vote for voicing your opinion clearly, firmly and succinctly when asked for. I am known amongst my friends for doing just that, so when they come to me for an opinion they know I won't give some wishy-washy runaround but my true, honest opinion, and I know they wouldn't have asked if they wanted anything else.

[Saidapal]

You can be blunt and gentle at the same time to take some of the sting out of the truth:

"I've been thinking for quite a while now you might be better off and have more fun with a horse you can really have fun with. Your horse might be nice, but he's a real stinker and I don't even know if I would want to deal with him. Wouldn't you like to come with us on trail rides and such? Think about it, and I'll be more than happy to help you (or point you in the right direction) to find something more suitable if you decide to go in that direction."

Your giving your opinion, but not backing her into a corner. Plant a seed and then let her think about it. I agree she probably already knows the answer and is hoping beyond hope she's wrong. In the long run she will appreciate your honesty, and the fact that she's asking you shows she values your opinion.

[Foxtrot's]

You are kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't! It is a good way to lose a friend but you would have the clear conscience because you didn't butter over the bread.

In Pony Club (as DC and an older, more experienced parent) I did feel I should warn against horses that were not suitable for the kids in my opinion. Once on a hunt, where the girl's private trainer told her she could hunt the horse, I went right up to the watching parents and told them that in my opinion the horse was crazy outside an arena, and not so smart in one. If there had been an accident, I would have felt responsible. As it happens, child and I gave up our hunt and returned to the trailers.

With wonderful horses around, it is a shame when there is no match in the pairing of horse and rider.

[twofatponies]

Thanks for all the (diverse!) suggestions. :D

I don't know this person terribly well, which was part of my hesitation. She and the trainer have known each other for ages, and she's had horses for years (from what I've heard the previous one was more difficult than the current one). Again, not knowing her very well, she strikes me as a person who is nervous/anxious by nature, not just around horses.

I didn't feel like she was asking my opinion because she knows and respects me so much as because I happened to walk by. :D

I don't like drama, and I didn't feel comfortable getting in on what, to me, might be more a discussion between her trainer and herself. But perhaps she really did want *my* opinion, not just someone to vent to. I wasn't sure about that.

But I think I will store away some of your ideas, and if I run into her again in the next few days, and the topic comes up, I'll offer some further thoughts.

Thanks guys! Feel free to continue...I'll keep reading.

[twofatponies]

Thanks for all the (diverse!) suggestions. :D

I don't know this person terribly well, which was part of my hesitation. She and the trainer have known each other for ages, and she's had horses for years (from what I've heard the previous one was more difficult than the current one). To my knowledge she did not buy the horse through the trainer, or with the trainer's advice (she's not "in training" - just goes to the trainer for occasional advice and lessons).

Again, not knowing her very well, she strikes me as a person who is nervous/anxious by nature, not just around horses.

I didn't feel like she was asking my opinion because she knows and respects me so much as because I happened to walk by. :D

I don't like drama, and I didn't feel comfortable getting in on what, to me, might be more a discussion between her trainer and herself. But perhaps she really did want *my* opinion, not just someone to vent to. I wasn't sure about that.

But I think I will store away some of your ideas, and if I run into her again in the next few days, and the topic comes up, I'll offer some further thoughts.

Thanks guys! Feel free to continue...I'll keep reading.

[Paddys Mom]

If you are usually an honest, upfront person, then there is a reason she asked YOU. ;)

Give it time they said.
It can take a year to bond they said.
Maybe he just needs to be in full training.
Just longe him before every ride.
He needs time to settle into new barn/herd/routine they said.
Some gave me calming supplements or remedies to try.

But nobody said the obvious truth.


Yeah, I also heard:
Get a saddle fitting (it fit)
Full lameness workup (nothing wrong)
Treat for ulcers (no difference)

The only thing that worked for my opinionated mare was moving to a new owner where she only was expected to walk around a trail always with one other horse.

I wish someone had suggested this BEFORE I spent 6 years and thousands of dollars. Finally, it was my trainer who said, "I have never seen a worse match than you and your mare." :sigh:

Signed,
Happy Owner of a New Horse ;)

[fordtraktor]

I'm glad there are some people out there that want the honest advice! Frankly, in my experience they are rare. Most people don't want to be told their horse is unsuitable/ill-mannered/a problem. And if you dare suggest it, they often get angry (much like the person in the OP).

It is like telling parents their kids are little hellions -- often gets a very bad response for some reason.

In fact, eventually I have come to learn that inevitably it isn't a problem with the horses/kids, it is the fact that I just don't understand them and their needs. :lol:

[twofatponies]

I'm glad there are some people out there that want the honest advice! Frankly, in my experience they are rare. Most people don't want to be told their horse is unsuitable/ill-mannered/a problem. And if you dare suggest it, they often get angry (much like the person in the OP).

It is like telling parents their kids are little hellions -- often gets a very bad response for some reason.

In fact, eventually I have come to learn that inevitably it isn't a problem with the horses/kids, it is the fact that I just don't understand them and their needs. :lol:

Don't get me started! :yes:

[pony89]

I liked your answer! One of the most thought provoking things someone said to me when I struggled with my mare, was along the lines of "Do you have fun at the barn? Do you look forward to going? Are you achieving the goals you would like to achieve? Are you proud when you get off?" And the answer was no. My solution was to get a really good trainer and keep the horse, but the point is that it got me thinking.

It's easy to kind of pick and pick away at what you are willing to do with your horse until suddenly you are afraid or unable to do any of the things you would like to do. It's like the story about the frog in a pot of water; you can heat it slowly and he won't jump out because it just creeps up on him. Those questions made me really think; the person didn't tell me what do do, but once I really evaluated what she said, I knew what I needed to do. You are right, she does need to decide for herself.

[Paddys Mom]

I'm glad there are some people out there that want the honest advice! Frankly, in my experience they are rare.

Well, I see now that they are not well acquainted.

My friends and family all know that if they want an outspoken honest opinion, they ask me. If they want sugar-coating, they ask my sister. ;)

[sidepasser]

Well If the person asked me, I'd tell them the honest truth..

1. The horse is not for you my dear..but here is what you can do to rectify the situation:

2. Send horse for full training and go, watch and learn, then ride said horse with trainer's supervision; or

3. Sell horse and get something you can have fun with and is more suitable for you. I know you love this horse, but honestly ask yourself "are you having fun?".

I am not one of your more politically correct COTHERs, I tell people what I believe and why if asked. If not asked, I keep my mouth shut and figure they can learn "the hard way" or from their "trainer". But if asked, don't kill the messenger..I tell it like it is and do try to be mindful of the owner's feelings. I am of the mind: Don't ask me if you don't want the truth.

There's too much pussy footing around in the horse world...and too many people spend too much money, time, effort and yes..self esteem..trying to put a square peg in a round hole. If more people were upfront and honest, we would have more people riding I believe, because most people "drop out" due to exactly this thing. They don't know and everyone pussy foots around and won't tell them the TRUTH, which is: either hire a professional trainer and get this horse under control or sell the horse and find one that is more attuned to YOUR needs; i.e. babysitter type, more advanced, better behaved, better ground manners, etc.

Sometimes people need to hear the TRUTH and darned the consequences of "sparing feelings"..how many folks I wonder feel bad today because someone they knew got hurt, or quit riding because they were new to horses, and didn't have anyone stop and tell them the truth about the situation. Sure you might rub some feathers the wrong way, but I bet one can sleep at night knowing you told the owner what you believe is the truth.

I know I'd feel bad for years if someone asked me for the "truth" and I squirmed and wormed around and said what I THOUGHT they wanted to hear..for goodness sakes, just say it. They either heed it or not.