HELP-What color is this yearling pony?? UPDATE WITH DNA RESULTS [Archive]

Summerwood

Apr. 22, 2009, 11:29 PM

I have a yearling welsh colt that I registered with the WPCSA as liver chestnut but after the thread about liver chestnuts....well, I am not sure he is liver chestnut anymore. He certainly looked like that was what he was going to be when he was shedding out his foal coat-he was born bright red chestnut with chestnut mane and tail. Then he had dark brown circles around his eyes and liver chestnut looking winter coat. This spring he has now shed out to have a red chestnut looking face, lighter body, mottled legs, and flaxen with silver mane and tail! And he has a darker stripe down his back. He is registered half-welsh but is a purebred, dam is fleabitten grey, Hillcrest's Blue Angel (Gayfield's Vida Blue x Farnley Gorse) and sire is black, Ledinjadon Hoo Me (Ledinjadon Tuxedo x Land's End Hermia). Can any of you color experts please help me with his color? I am really curious to know. I have more photos if you need them but it is hard to get anything but an action or extreme close-up of him!

I had to put a link because my photos were too large here??
Scroll down to "Milo".
http://www.summerwoodwelsh.com/Youngstock.html

Thank you!:)

trakehner013

Apr. 22, 2009, 11:34 PM

He is very cute!

Summerwood

Apr. 22, 2009, 11:37 PM

Thanks, he thinks so too!:winkgrin:

Daventry

Apr. 22, 2009, 11:55 PM

Wow, interesting! He sure looks like he has a silver gene.

littleum

Apr. 22, 2009, 11:57 PM

Looks like a classic silver bay to me.

There's a DNA test for silver (Z-) I'll bet $5 he comes back A/- E/- Z/- ;)

RiddleMeThis

Apr. 23, 2009, 12:19 AM

I would bet that its a flaxen chestnut going gray.

darkmoonlady

Apr. 23, 2009, 12:39 AM

I'd say that he looks like a silver bay, however, if you really look he has a lot of pangare going on as well. I think he might be a flaxen liver with pangare lightening him up even further. He is gorgeous. What are his sire and dam's coloring??

rideagoldenpony

Apr. 23, 2009, 12:39 AM

Silver bay! And adorable!!!

alliekat

Apr. 23, 2009, 06:39 AM

I am no help with the color but is is very very cute!!!

Apr. 23, 2009, 07:24 AM

I think it's worth testing his Extension, Agouti, and Silver status. At this stage I can see arguments for either Silver Bay or liver w/ flaxen.

I'm confuse though, maybe I'm not seeing things right - how many white legs does he really have? :confused:

slc2

Apr. 23, 2009, 07:33 AM

Foals often have light colored legs that become mottled looking and darker as they lose their baby coat.

This one looks like a silver bay.

I don't think it's what's called a silver dapple. That's more of a sepia (very brown, not as red) tone, whether lighter or darker.

THis one has the richer reddish coloring and silvered-out mane and tale that looks like a silver bay. It also appears the legs are darkening as he grows which isn't unusual. Silver bay is not unusual in some pony breeds. He looks like he will have one hind stocking, but I'd rather wait and see for sure.

VirginiaBred

Apr. 23, 2009, 07:33 AM

So cute!!! :)

Apr. 23, 2009, 08:09 AM

Foals often have light colored legs that become mottled looking and darker as they lose their baby coat.

I know, but in a couple of those pictures he really, truly looks like he has high *white* stockings.

Summerwood

Apr. 23, 2009, 08:51 AM

Thanks everyone for the compliments. I think he is really something myself but I am of course biased :D.

His dam is fleabitten grey and sire was black. Here is a link to his pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/summerwoods+rhythm+n+blues

I believe he will only have one sock in the back, the other legs are actually dappled or mottled looking. I have never seen anything like his color before so maybe he is turning into some other color. I will have to get him tested because now I just have to know! I don't know if you can tell from the photos but his eyelashes are a lighter tan (for lack of a better word) color and his mane and tail have dark silver in them.

Penthilisea

Apr. 23, 2009, 09:07 AM

Sad to say but he just looks like a baby going grey fast to my eyes. My friend has what looks like a CLASSIC red roan filly right now- but she;s really just bay going grey.

SabinoPonyLover

Apr. 23, 2009, 10:51 AM

I vote for silver bay as well. Here is the one we had.

http://www.lazyfponies.com/images/liddlejesse2.jpg
http://www.lazyfponies.com/images/liddlejesse3.jpg

Cindy's Warmbloods

Apr. 23, 2009, 11:20 AM

I also vote liver chestnut going grey.

Summerwood

Apr. 23, 2009, 01:50 PM

SabinoPonyLover, I have to say that he does look a lot like your pony!!!

I would fall on the floor if he turned grey. I would never have guessed anyone to say he was going to do that. He does have a lot of light areas but they are not grey they are more the flaxen color that is in his mane.

Apr. 23, 2009, 01:54 PM

IMHO, he was born much too light, legs too light, to be going gray.

pintopiaffe

Apr. 23, 2009, 02:05 PM

Wow, no guesses at all...

but the stockings thing!!! I'm with JB--one foal pic I'd swear he had four stockings! I've never seen one change like that... (but then I only do 'easy' colours like tobi :lol: )

showponies

Apr. 23, 2009, 02:44 PM

I would say will end up grey, and very cute!

summerhorse

Apr. 23, 2009, 10:04 PM

Daydream Believer

Apr. 23, 2009, 10:07 PM

I agree that he is a silver bay. Lovely color! Most likely the gray mare is also a silver and no one knows it because she grayed out. Hopefully this guy will not gray also and will stay such a neat color.

Summerwood

Apr. 23, 2009, 10:53 PM

He does look silver bay BUT I think that is just grey messin' with ya! I think he's probably flax chest. going grey. If he was to be a stallion I'd test him for silver though. (and E and A!)

Any pictures of Mom's parents?

His dam's sire is Gayfield's Vida Blue who was grey. I am not sure what color Farnley Gorse was. Does anyone know? Was Downland Drummer Boy bay?

LaurieB

Apr. 23, 2009, 11:00 PM

Another vote for a pony turning grey.

rideagoldenpony

Apr. 23, 2009, 11:02 PM

His dam's sire is Gayfield's Vida Blue who was grey. I am not sure what color Farnley Gorse was. Does anyone know? Was Downland Drummer Boy bay?

*Downland Drummer Boy was bay.

I still do NOT think he's grey! ;) I have a similarly colored mare.

TaliaCristianna

Apr. 23, 2009, 11:13 PM

I'm totally on the fence with him. Could easily see him testing as a silver bay, could also easily see him testing as a flaxen chestnut. The addition of pangare makes it even more difficult to guess.

Definitely am not thinking gray because by 10 months I would expect to see a lot more white coming in on his head.

Summerwood

Apr. 23, 2009, 11:18 PM

He does not have any white hair except on the blaze and sock. The other hair that may look white in the photos is actually a creamy color, similar to what is in his mane and on his legs (mixed with dark dapples). He also has dark dappling on his little booty cheeks.:D

Apr. 24, 2009, 07:57 AM

Definitely am not thinking gray because by 10 months I would expect to see a lot more white coming in on his head.
Even at 10 months he could be hiding any signs of graying - I've known a couple of horses now who didn't show a single strand of white hair until after their 1st birthday.

However, I'll still stand by the "not gray" because his legs were far too light at birth. That's even more reliable, IME, for predicting gray than any white around the eyes. Foal legs are born the adult color if they're going to gray. If they aren't, they're born "foal colored" which depends on the actual color. I have yet to see a "foal colored" foal turn gray (when it's clear that the adult color is a "normal" color - all bets are off with double dilutes :lol:).

whbar158

Apr. 24, 2009, 10:02 AM

I think if you showed me those pictures I would never guess they are the same horse! The stocking thing is crazy. I sure hope he doesn't go grey because he is pretty cool looking.

SilverSpringFarm

Apr. 24, 2009, 10:38 AM

Even at 10 months he could be hiding any signs of graying - I've known a couple of horses now who didn't show a single strand of white hair until after their 1st birthday.

Yes, but they are usually the exception and not the rule!

LaurieB

Apr. 24, 2009, 11:02 AM

However, I'll still stand by the "not gray" because his legs were far too light at birth. That's even more reliable, IME, for predicting gray than any white around the eyes. Foal legs are born the adult color if they're going to gray. If they aren't, they're born "foal colored" which depends on the actual color. I have yet to see a "foal colored" foal turn gray (when it's clear that the adult color is a "normal" color - all bets are off with double dilutes :lol:).

JB, I really like your theory about the color of foals' legs, because it would make my life easier but...then how do you account for a foal like this one (pictured at 2 days) http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Tiz-3-11-09-b.jpg whose legs are the adult color, but who isn't going to go grey because she doesn't have a grey parent?

Apr. 24, 2009, 11:44 AM

Yes, but they are usually the exception and not the rule!
Yep, the ones that gray as a yearling or later are exceptions, you're right. But I've never seen the legs fail :)

JB, I really like your theory about the color of foals' legs, because it would make my life easier but...then how do you account for a foal like this one (pictured at 2 days) http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Tiz-3-11-09-b.jpg whose legs are the adult color, but who isn't going to go grey because she doesn't have a grey parent?
Ah, but that foals legs are NOT adult color ;) They are mousy/grayish, which is what all bay non-gray foals are born with (white marks not counting).

Does anyone have a good picture of a bay foal who will/did turn gray? It's really very clear when you see the differences. The bay-gray foals legs will be black - adult color black, not mousy/grayish :)

SilverSpringFarm

Apr. 24, 2009, 11:47 AM

Yep, the ones that gray as a yearling or later are exceptions, you're right. But I've never seen the legs fail :)

Me neither! My gray palomino QH stallion went very dark on his legs and his hiney while simultaneously going pure white on his head.

I remember looking at him when he was a technicolor two-year old and thinking "Are you ever going to look like a normal horse???"

RiddleMeThis

Apr. 24, 2009, 08:17 PM

Foal legs are born the adult color if they're going to gray.
Not gray
http://www.northernhorse.com/bruens/members/SaleBarn/images/Easterleft.jpg

Many Friesian foals are born BLACK black and have no chance of going gray as well.

Personally I dont think there is any truly 100% reliable way to tell if a foal is gray or not just based on looks.

Based on everything together I think this foal is chestnut going gray.

Apr. 24, 2009, 08:47 PM

RMT, to me, that foal looks like he's just coming out of the charcoal/dark mousy stage.

LaurieB

Apr. 24, 2009, 08:48 PM

Ah, but that foals legs are NOT adult color ;) They are mousy/grayish, which is what all bay non-gray foals are born with (white marks not counting).

I am truly not trying to be argumentative, just want to figure this out. The vast majority of my bay foals are not born with mousy/grayish--or what appear to me to be black--legs. They're born with light, wheat colored legs like this colt: http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Lang-4-21-09-a.jpg Which is why the other filly's legs look so dark to me. :confused:

RiddleMeThis

Apr. 24, 2009, 08:52 PM

RMT, to me, that foal looks like he's just coming out of the charcoal/dark mousy stage.Shes not even 2 weeks old. Never seen a foal come out of a charcoal stage that fast.

SilverSpringFarm

Apr. 24, 2009, 08:56 PM

He reminds me of a breed called the Comtois.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/gphoto-g185009.html

http://www.cancoillotte.net/IMG/jpg/Jaguar_des_Montants_HN_.jpg

http://www.rossinger.at/bilder/comtois.jpg

Summerwood

Apr. 24, 2009, 09:32 PM

Apr. 24, 2009, 09:38 PM

I am truly not trying to be argumentative, just want to figure this out. The vast majority of my bay foals are not born with mousy/grayish--or what appear to me to be black--legs. They're born with light, wheat colored legs like this colt: http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Lang-4-21-09-a.jpg Which is why the other filly's legs look so dark to me. :confused:
Yes, the tan is another color the black legs can be born. I've seen them both ways. I can't say for sure, but I think the darker/mousy color ends up being on a horse who ends up a dark shade of bay, and the tan color on the "normal" bays.

Shes not even 2 weeks old. Never seen a foal come out of a charcoal stage that fast.

It still looks to me like a black foal who was born the "gray" of a foal-black coat. Of course, knowing who that is now, with the filly being likely smoky black, that explains the "oddness" to the color. It's still not the black coat of a black-turning-gray foal.

stolensilver

Apr. 25, 2009, 05:16 AM

Windswept Stable

Apr. 25, 2009, 07:18 AM

Apr. 25, 2009, 09:15 AM

I agree with JB about foal legs tending to indicate whether a foal carries the grey gene or not. The only exceptions I've seen are foals with a cream gene. Some of those are born with jet black legs rather than the greyish/mousy colour you usually see and they do not go grey. It seems to be a function of the cream gene.
Yep, that's why I said the dilute genes can really play havoc with figuring this out, hence the little discussion we just had about the foal RMT posted who is likely smoky black

To OP are you going to do the genetic colour testing on him? It would be interesting to find out what colour he really is.
Seriously, that's a must! :D

SilverSpringFarm

Apr. 25, 2009, 09:51 AM

Interesting....I have never heard of that breed!! Their color is beautiful.

They are very striking aren't they? I would really like to find out what one of them would test out as color-wise.

Everything I've read about them says they come in two colors: bay w/flaxen and chestnut w/flaxen.

That just seems really strange to me. Plenty of "bays" w/flaxen manes but no black or true bay horses in the entire breed?

Seems to me like they probably exhibit some strange form of flaxen chestnut that just so happens to have darker colored legs. (Unless every single horse in the breed is homozygous for both silver and agouti...)

rideagoldenpony

Apr. 25, 2009, 11:26 AM

He is very cute!
I offer no suggestions on the color other than to test him.
I tested a colt last fall and it was really easy to do.
I tested with 2 different labs--- UCLA Davis in CA
and Animal Genetics in Florida. Animal Genetics offers a grey gene testing that UCLA Davis did not offer (at the time--I can not speak for now). Reports came email within a few weeks.

I downloaded all the forms online and it was very easy. I think I even paid online & sent the hairs thru the mail.

I also color tested a colt last year that was a bizarre color. He came back as chestnut. :D I did it through UC Davis, and I had the results in a matter of days via e-mail. It was very cool and I was impressed. I'd definitely do it again if I was wondering about a color!

It looks like they do offer testing for grey, in addition to the others. http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/horse.php

2 tbs

Apr. 25, 2009, 12:49 PM

Yes, the tan is another color the black legs can be born. I've seen them both ways. I can't say for sure, but I think the darker/mousy color ends up being on a horse who ends up a dark shade of bay, and the tan color on the "normal" bays.

:yes:

I know NOTHING about color. Heck, I barely know anyhting about breeding but I do have lots of experience with bay babies!

All the dark bays I've known have a tanish/mousy greyish color on their legs - usually more greyish (it's a pretty mix of color). You can easily see the black just begging to come out under it!

The lighter bays have all been very tan with sort of a reddish tinge on the legs - the black definitely not as apparent. Sometimes the hair almost looks blondish.

The more medium bays have an array of colors - dark, light, blonde, reddish - it's fun! But, it's clear the baby is a bay by the mane, tail, muzzle, ears, and eyes. :)

Summerwood

Apr. 25, 2009, 01:58 PM

Another vote for silver bay. If he is and if his conformation/athleticism are as good as they look in the photos then he would be a candidate to keep entire. Silver is extremely rare in Welsh ponies and he looks lovely. :)

I agree with JB about foal legs tending to indicate whether a foal carries the grey gene or not. The only exceptions I've seen are foals with a cream gene. Some of those are born with jet black legs rather than the greyish/mousy colour you usually see and they do not go grey. It seems to be a function of the cream gene.

To OP are you going to do the genetic colour testing on him? It would be interesting to find out what colour he really is.
Thank you for the compliment.
I will definately have him tested to see. He is very, very correct and is a really nice mover with a canter that looks like you could sip wine on and not spill a drop! He is one of those foals that was born with that "look at me" factor. His 1/2 sister is one of the top smalls in the country right now with Bill Schaub. I had planned on gelding him because I thought he would make some child very happy but maybe I will wait to see what his color comes back as. I will be sure to let everyone know when I find out!

sfstable

Apr. 25, 2009, 02:52 PM

Thank you for the compliment.
I will definately have him tested to see. He is very, very correct and is a really nice mover with a canter that looks like you could sip wine on and not spill a drop! He is one of those foals that was born with that "look at me" factor. His 1/2 sister is one of the top smalls in the country right now with Bill Schaub. I had planned on gelding him because I thought he would make some child very happy but maybe I will wait to see what his color comes back as. I will be sure to let everyone know when I find out!

He is cute !!! I am going to vote with the silver bay crowd.

I am breeding a welsh cross pony mare confirmed with the silver gene to a welsh pony stallion that also has been confirmed with the silver gene this year. So I have been looking at a lot of the color mixes and he looks like what I have been seeing called a silver bay. One place I read a statement that quite a few silver bays are confused with a flaxen liver chestnut and as they age it becomes apparent that they are a "horse of a different color". :)

Please test him. I used Animal Genetics to test the mare and they had the results back in less than a week.

stoneypony

Apr. 27, 2009, 12:01 AM

Farnley Gorse was bay. All her children I knew were by Vida, so gray....

Summerwood

Apr. 27, 2009, 08:29 AM

Stoney, you have a mare out of the same dam, Hillcrest's Blue Angel. Your mare looks really nice in the video!

You wouldn't happen to have a photo of Gorse would you?

stoneypony

Apr. 27, 2009, 01:41 PM

I will have to look for a Gorse picture....I think I have one from her post broodmare days, I think your Angel was one of her last foals...Alex Jayne then bought her for Maggie to show in the medium ponies, and I remember a jog picture from when I competed against her on my medium, many,many years ago! We love our Blue Angel daughter (My Blue Heaven) we call her Angel as well, she is darling and lives up to the name....I plan to keep her as a broodmare, but will lease her out to show for a few more years. Your colt is stunning, what ever color he is ;)

Summerwood

Apr. 27, 2009, 10:46 PM

Thanks Stoney. I would love to have the photo of Gorse for my records. Angel is a sweet, patient old mare and she seems to pass along that quality in her foals. I love the jump on your mare!!

I am going to collect some hair and send it to Animal Genetics tomorrow so I will let you all know what happens. Thank you everyone for your educated guesses!:)

Summerwood

May. 1, 2009, 04:06 PM

Well, sent the hair to animal genetics and this is how it came back. So what are my conclusions now? Do I need to have him tested for gray?

Summerwood's Rhythm N' Blues Welsh Pony RED FACTOR-ee AGOUTI-aa SILVER GENE-nn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Result Guide:

Red Factor
ee Only the red factor detected. The horse tested homozygous for red pigment. The basic color is chestnut or sorrel, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse could be red dun, palomino, cremello, gray or white.

Agouti
aa Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. The basic color of the horse will be black in the absence of other modifying genes.

Silver Dilution

nn Horse tested negative for Silver Dilution.

Summerwood

May. 1, 2009, 04:31 PM

I just got off the phone with Animal Genetics, they said that based on their findings and my description (he has a slightly darker stripe down his back)they think that he is most likely a red dun but he could also be grey. She said sometimes they don't show it until ages 4-7??? That would be really crazy to have a chestnut all of a sudden start turning gray at that age. They do not currently test for the dun factor, but UC Davis does. It is $50 though, so I think I will just take their word for it. I may test for the grey gene, though, as they can do it with the same sample. I am a little disappointed he isn't silver bay...I like that color!! But he is pretty cool the way he is now and it will be fun to see what his coat looks like every year!

TouchstoneAcres

May. 1, 2009, 08:16 PM

UC Davis is $25 for gray test while Animal Genetics was $45 last I looked.

RiddleMeThis

May. 1, 2009, 08:30 PM

they think that he is most likely a red dun but he could also be grey.IMO there is absolutey no way in HELL that this horse is dun. I will eat my computer if this horse is dun. On the other hand GRAY can and will put fake dun factor on a horse. At Churchill Downs today over HALF of the grays we saw had at least a dorsal stripe.

Summerwood

May. 1, 2009, 08:46 PM

IMO there is absolutey no way in HELL that this horse is dun. I will eat my computer if this horse is dun. On the other hand GRAY can and will put fake dun factor on a horse. At Churchill Downs today over HALF of the grays we saw had at least a dorsal stripe.

OK, you convinced me to test him for gray (that was easy :)). I think AG is only $25 also, perhaps they recently changed it. I will call them on Monday and tell them to conduct the test. Don't tell my husband I'm spending more money on the little bugger :winkgrin:.

rideagoldenpony

May. 1, 2009, 09:11 PM

Bet he's not grey. :D

But now you'll be able to say I'm right. ;) :lol:

sfstable

May. 1, 2009, 09:55 PM

OK, you convinced me to test him for gray (that was easy :)). I think AG is only $25 also, perhaps they recently changed it. I will call them on Monday and tell them to conduct the test. Don't tell my husband I'm spending more money on the little bugger :winkgrin:.

Don't you just love puzzles :lol: This color testing that they can do now is fun. I like following the color threads that have conclusions so keep testing. There -- I am enabling !! (I won't breathe a word to your husband). :)

May. 1, 2009, 09:58 PM

I might be inclined to have them double/triple check that Silver test :D

summerhorse

May. 1, 2009, 10:37 PM

Greys can be born very dark or "regular" colors. Grey does its own thing! Sometimes they start to grey at the first shedding. Someone I know had one that didn't start greying until he was 10 or so. That is of course extreme! Other diluting patterns can hasten grey (Apps, cream, etc.)

I can tell you he's not a dun!

He is sabino which has some dilution itself but the dapple and silvering around his upper legs and the darkening (while the rest went light) of his lower legs say grey to me!

RiddleMeThis

May. 1, 2009, 11:08 PM

I might be inclined to have them double/triple check that Silver test :D

So you think all three tests are wrong? You think they messed up the extension test, the agouti test AND the silver test??

:lol::lol:

May. 2, 2009, 10:19 AM

No, but there is someone on HGS who asked the Silver test to be double checked because it WAS wrong.

grayarabpony

May. 2, 2009, 10:23 AM

It's absolutely possible for all three tests to be wrong if the samples get mixed up... not saying it happened here but I'm sure that's happened before..

anchorsaway

May. 2, 2009, 10:38 AM

My left foot that pony is a red dun...

http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/annaisblonde/?action=view&current=Dunny2.jpg

THAT is a red dun.

Summerwood

May. 2, 2009, 07:38 PM

Can red duns have flaxen manes and tails with silver in them?

SilverSpringFarm

May. 3, 2009, 08:52 AM

Can red duns have flaxen manes and tails with silver in them?

I don't think I've ever seen a true red dun with anything other then a self-colored mane. The silver gene on a true red dun would have no effect whatsoever.

A bay dun or black dun (grulla) that also carries the silver gene can absolutely have a flaxen colored mane & tail.

Honestly nothing about your boy strikes me as looking dun. These pics very clearly shows that he is lacking a true dorsal stripe.

http://www.summerwoodwelsh.com/DSC_0036.JPG

http://www.summerwoodwelsh.com/DSC_0032_op_397x600.jpg

I'm really not surprised about the test results either. I was on the fence 50/50 on whether he was silver bay or flaxen chestnut.

I think your best bet would be to ship him to me so I can examine his color first hand... He is absolutely adorable!

SilverSpringFarm

May. 3, 2009, 09:00 AM

No, but there is someone on HGS who asked the Silver test to be double checked because it WAS wrong.

Even if the silver test was wrong, doesn't the fact that he's ee make it a moot point?

sniplover

May. 3, 2009, 09:33 AM

not necessarily... My friend has a beautiful silver chestnut welsh x TB filly that is just stunning.

SilverSpringFarm

May. 3, 2009, 09:50 AM

not necessarily... My friend has a beautiful silver chestnut welsh x TB filly that is just stunning.

The point is the silver gene has zero effect phenotype-wise on red based horses. It only dilutes black hair.

http://www.silverequine.com/silver_chestnut.htm

May. 3, 2009, 10:25 AM

Even if the silver test was wrong, doesn't the fact that he's ee make it a moot point?
Oh duh, yes, you're right, sorry! :)

RiddleMeThis

May. 3, 2009, 11:58 AM

Oh duh, yes, you're right, sorry! :)Hence my wondering if you thought all the tests were wrong.;)

rideagoldenpony

May. 3, 2009, 12:29 PM

grayarabpony

May. 3, 2009, 12:37 PM

OK, so Summerwood's baby is a chesnut with flaxen mane and tail who may be going gray -- right? :lol:

Sorry, these color threads make my head spin a little bit.

RiddleMeThis

May. 3, 2009, 01:12 PM

OK, so Summerwood's baby is a chesnut with flaxen mane and tail who may be going gray -- right? :lol:

Sorry, these color threads make my head spin a little bit.

Yep. That he is.:yes:

Summerwood

May. 3, 2009, 03:04 PM

Summerwood -- forgot to tell you about this colt I had color tested last fall. (photos attached) I thought FOR SURE he was going to come back as something "interesting".... $90 later? He is chestnut. :lol:

Thanks for posting that, rideagoldenpony. I see the similarity. Did yours have the dark silver in the mane and dappling/mottling on his legs too?

I don't mind, whatever color he turns out to be, because he is such a nice little guy. But it is fun to have something different!!!:winkgrin:

Nootka

May. 3, 2009, 03:04 PM

grayarabpony

May. 3, 2009, 03:17 PM

Thanks RMT. :)

rideagoldenpony

May. 3, 2009, 03:35 PM

Thanks for posting that, rideagoldenpony. I see the similarity. Did yours have the dark silver in the mane and dappling/mottling on his legs too?

I don't mind, whatever color he turns out to be, because he is such a nice little guy. But it is fun to have something different!!!:winkgrin:

He is actually more "silvery" looking than the pictures above would imply. I think they make him look a little more red than he actually is. He also has white hairs scattered throughout his coat. His mane is a weird brown/pewter color, with some white hairs, and his legs are pewtery looking with dapples. It's very odd!

Here he is at a month old still wearing his first foal coat -- which looked perfectly normal. But by the fall, he was a total mystery color. I just couldn't figure it out, so opted to spend the money for color testing. I did the silver, dilute, red and agouti testing. I know one of those at least was combined with the other. Interestingly he came back with an agouti status that would mean he could never sire a black foal. That was interesting to me, particularly in light of the fact that his sire has well over 100 foals on the ground, and not a single one black. I think perhaps Mardi has the same agouti status. One of these days I'll remember I want to test that when I'm out at the barn and I'll grab a hair sample!

Your boy is a nice baby regardless of color. My vote is still chestnut. :D

SilverSpringFarm

May. 3, 2009, 03:43 PM

Rideagoldenpony, that little guy is WAY to cute for his own good!

Dalemma

May. 3, 2009, 04:45 PM

rideagoldenpony

May. 3, 2009, 06:17 PM

He looks like what we call a liver chestnut.

Dalemma

I've owned MANY liver chestnuts over the years, and if he was anywhere near their color, I never would have wasted $90 testing him! :D

Summerwood

May. 3, 2009, 07:39 PM

Summerwood

May. 3, 2009, 07:44 PM

For anyone's FYI that is interested, this is the explanations given on the form for results of the red, agouti, and silver tests.

Red Factor
ee Only the red factor detected. The horse tested homozygous for red pigment. The basic color is chestnut or sorrel, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse could be red dun, palomino, cremello, gray or white.
Ee Both black and red factors detected. The horse tested heterozygous for the red factor. It can transmit either E or e to its offspring. The basic color of the horse will be black, bay or brown, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse may be buckskin, zebra dun, grullo, perlino, gray, or white.
EE Only the black factor detected. The horse tested homozygous for black pigment. It cannot have red foals regardless of the color of the mate. The basic color of the horse will be black, bay or brown, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse may be buckskin, zebra dun, grullo, perlino, gray or white.
Agouti
aa Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. The basic color of the horse will be black in the absence of other modifying genes.
Aa Horse tested Heterozygous for Agouti. Black pigment distributed in point pattern. The basic color of the horse will be bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.
AA Only dominant allele detected. Black pigment distributed in point pattern. The basic color of the horse will be bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.
Silver Dilution
ZZ Horse tested Homozygous for Silver Dilution (Two copies of the Silver allele detected). Black-based horses will be chocolate with flaxen mane and tail. Bay-based horses will have pigment on lower legs lightened and flaxen mane and tail. No effect on chestnut color.
nZ Horse tested Heterozygous for Silver Dilution (One copy of the Silver allele detected). Black-based horses will be chocolate with flaxen mane and tail. Bay-based horses will have pigment on lower legs lightened and flaxen mane and tail. No effect on chestnut color.
nn Horse tested negative for Silver Dilution.

rideagoldenpony

May. 3, 2009, 10:20 PM

Gretchen-What is your colt's summer coat looking like this year? My colt looked classic liver chestnut with his winter coat, it wasn't until he lost it that I was like...what is this that I have now???!! He is registered as a liver chestnut.
By the way, your colt is very handsome, and by the looks of him in the video, he knows it :D. I love his dam's facial markings.

Right now he is the EXACT color as in the pictures from the fall -- though in the fall he wasn't reddish the way the photos look. Sort of a "silvery" color with a slight red cast to it. His mane is mixed silver, white, brown and reddish hairs, as is his tail. He isn't fully shed out yet -- still a bit chilly here in Oregon! It will be interesting to see if/how much his color changes once ALL of the winter fuzz is gone!