Building the muscle in front of the withers...

[Beethoven]

Any suggestions on some good exercises to do so? Or suggestions on how to get my horse to unlock and come through right at the withers? He is using himself really well from behind as he has very foamy butt cheeks and lots of belly sweat and stifle area sweat. I believe he is using the muscle right in front of his withers as well as he is sweaty there when we are done with our ride, but I am not convinced as I am not seeing muscle being built there. Sometimes I feel like I am making progress then I have to leave town for a bit and he does not get ridden and it seems to disappear overnight. Its very frustrating as I know he must be blocking me somewhere since he is not building right in front of his withers. He has definatly gotten better at unlocking his neck there, but still seems to get stuck. I just spent the past year at a dressage barn and ended up more clueless than I started. Not good.:no: Sadly my horse was more properly muscled before than after I left. :eek: I have moved back into the hunter/jumper world where people do not obesses as much about proper muscling but it still matters to me.

So, help before it drives me crazy.

Thanks!

[Hazelnut]

You might take a look at the March Dressage today. There is an article about Activate Your Horse's Core with an ground exercise outlined for a stermo thoracic lift which is very helpful with what you are asking. OR go to

www.sporthorsespublications.com (http://www.sporthorsespublications.com) and look for Activate Your Horse's Core.

I use these and they are very good.

[Elegante E]

It's a matter of the horse being properly on the bit. Then you are cycling the energy through. If you are struggling with connection shoulder-in at walk on a circle can help get the horse into the outside rein (hind end stays on the circle and shoulders come to inside track). I also find it a great stretch for the shoulder and base of neck. Also, be sure you're not asking your horse to bring his head up too much. The falling down neck helps them come over their backs and through.

Doing transitions so that he lifts in front going from walk to trot and stays connected on down transitions, be sure he hind end stays under. Mix that up with bending excercises to keep him loose (SI and serpentines). Also, ask for him to step under himself and through on the long sides at trot by keep a bit of inside flexion when asking with the inside leg for more engagement.

Trot polls are a good excercise as well.

[Surviving the Dramas]

My new horse likes to brace the base of his neck against the hand while being worked (as a result of poor riding from a so-called trainer:rolleyes:) and as a result is under developed along his topline, and also particularly in those muscles just in front of the wither.

In an effort to try and develop his neck/topline correctly I am encoraging him forward in an active gait (either w/t or c) taking the rein forward, not sucking back as he likes to. He has to reach forward toward the rein, and is almost in a long/low position. He doesn't have to have his frame in a 2nd level position, but must be swinging through from behind, and have I mentioned ACTIVE enough yet :lol: I also need to mention SOFT lots too. I want a nice positive, spongey contact, not bracing, no feeling like I am doing too much work. IMO this is all BABY stuff that they have to learn at the start, but is missed on far too many baby horses - many riders just skip past this crucial step all too often.

From these forward gaits I then throw in very swooping laterals, leg-yeild is particularly handy as they must be unlocked in the neck/poll to be able to carry the shoulders over correctly. It all must be done in a forward, loose (but positive) contact in order to encourge stretching. In 3 weeks the improvements in his neck have been fantastic. In that same gait shoulder-in, or even shoulder fore helps immensely too. Means to you have to get the straightness, flexion and contact correct before the horse performs the exercise properly. I do it all in rising trot as well so he has the best chance to use his back correctly with minimal rider interference.

Good luck :winkgrin:

[Beethoven]

My new horse likes to brace the base of his neck against the hand while being worked (as a result of poor riding from a so-called trainer:rolleyes:) and as a result is under developed along his topline, and also particularly in those muscles just in front of the wither.

In an effort to try and develop his neck/topline correctly I am encoraging him forward in an active gait (either w/t or c) taking the rein forward, not sucking back as he likes to. He has to reach forward toward the rein, and is almost in a long/low position. He doesn't have to have his frame in a 2nd level position, but must be swinging through from behind, and have I mentioned ACTIVE enough yet :lol: I also need to mention SOFT lots too. I want a nice positive, spongey contact, not bracing, no feeling like I am doing too much work. IMO this is all BABY stuff that they have to learn at the start, but is missed on far too many baby horses - many riders just skip past this crucial step all too often.

From these forward gaits I then throw in very swooping laterals, leg-yeild is particularly handy as they must be unlocked in the neck/poll to be able to carry the shoulders over correctly. It all must be done in a forward, loose (but positive) contact in order to encourge stretching. In 3 weeks the improvements in his neck have been fantastic. In that same gait shoulder-in, or even shoulder fore helps immensely too. Means to you have to get the straightness, flexion and contact correct before the horse performs the exercise properly. I do it all in rising trot as well so he has the best chance to use his back correctly with minimal rider interference.

Good luck :winkgrin:


Awesome! This is basicly what I have been doing with him over the past few weeks although I was out of town for a week. I have been encouraging foward into the hand and really streching him over his back. He is getting better and better at this each day.

I will try the shoulder-in at walk stuff but sometime that kind of work causes him to invert and brace with his underneck muscles. Although since we have really been working on stretching at all gaits when he braces I ask him to chew the bit and strech and he does so it definatly getting better.

We have some really wow break through moment where I can feel him totally through his back and withers and over his topline and they last for a circle then he looses it, but he is getting better. :yes:

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am glad I am working a long the correct path. I try to not take him too up in his frame until he is really over his back then intermittently ask him to strech back down to make sure he is not ust faking the connection.:lol: Although my feel is getting much better and is coming back to me. I somehow lost it within the last yr.:o

Anyways keep the suggestions coming.

Thanks again!

[GiGi]

I get my gelding going in a very nice stretchy walk and then ask for a trot in stretchy mode and then canter. We do about 30 minutes of this 3-4 times a week. Usually after a bit of work. The U in front of his withers from having 8 months off went away in about 3 weeks and now his withers are muscleing up nicely. When I ask for him to come up he still has nice light contact with impulsion from behind.

[slc2]

If it's the Nala horse, I don't really know if you can change him a lot in that area.

[Beethoven]

If it's the Nala horse, I don't really know if you can change him a lot in that area.

No its my other horse Noah, but curious as to why you would say that.

[slc2]

The Noah horse just really does not look that bad. He also has a little bit of a straight neck and high wither, but not as muuch as the Nala.

What builds that area? Lifting the neck from the base, and that comes about from correct flat work - the horse's mouth meets the hand and unless the rider's legs are working, it won't lift at the base. bending helps too, as does transitions.

If it seems to disappear overnight, I think you need to 'stop looking so hard'. Muscle doesn't disappear overnight, but it can change quite a bit in a month or so. People say 'a horse keeps his fitness for six months' but actually, it's not true. In a few weeks muscles change, just like in any animal that doesn't get exercised in a way that uses that muscle.

Even though muscle mass disappears slowly, in just a few DAYS of not training, the horse won't respond as well to your aids.

If you left a dressage barn 'more confused than ever', someone didn't communicate real well with you!

Nala has a very straight low set neck, and extremely high withers. The muscle couldn't ever completely fill in that area because his neck is set on lower and his withers are huge. It isn't something that you can completely change.

One can for sure, improve the muscling of the neck, of any neck, by bending, transitions, etc. But depending on how the horse is conformed you can't completely erase that little dip in front of the withers.

For a lower level dressage horse it also isn't a make-or-break thing. The lower level horse is successful because he's obedient, forward and cooperative, that little dip in the withers is bupkis compared to that.

Much of the time, the look of the neck improves because the horse gets older, more mature, and the area fills in with fat. When the horse gets thinner, it shows again.

[EqTrainer]

For the most part, I agree w/slc.

But IME, there are things you can do OUT of the saddle that can make a huge impact in that area - and make your ridden work much more effective.

The first one is standing flexions, so that the horse learns what the aids are to bend at the poll laterally, because while he may seem to be "stiff" in the base of the neck, it is unlikely that it is the cause of this issue. You really don't want the horse to be "supple" in the base of the neck in the way people think of supple being... you want the base of the neck to be solid and work w/the shoulders, not separately.

The second is correct PT, using the horses own nerve impulses to retrain how he uses his neck. I do NOT mean carrot stretches and what not, in fact, I find that type of "stretching" to be totally counterproductive, as it teaches the horse to break in the wrong place of the neck (where it is most vulnerable to injury) and to twist their heads. Really, head twisting is never a good idea! You will need someone to teach you how to do this; nice thing is, it's a lifetime skill, meaning you will use it again and again on every horse you own. There isn't a horse out there that cannot benefit from this.

Third, add a source of quality amino acids to your horses feeding program. Muscle doesn't build correctly on the topline if the correct building blocks are not there nutritionally. I have had horses come here and change their toplines *dramatically* by doing nothing but PT, lots of turnout and movement, and adding good quality protein to their feed program. People want to say this is not possible but it is, and there are others who have done it and can attest to it (LMH comes to mind, JB is another, and Onelanerode may have some recent photographic evidence).

As far as under saddle work? The horse has to lift the withers to work properly. Developing the bouncing up/carrying phase of each gait will help change this area more than anything else. How you go about that depends on the horse and your own riding skills. I am particularly talented at slowing horses down and teaching them to carry more/lift thru their backs/withers/neck so that is how I do it. But that's my skill set; yours may be different, and that is what usually dictates exactly how people deal with these issues U/S. So when you here someone say "I do this" remember that any exercise is helpful, or useless, depending on how it is ridden.

[Gloria]

Many people have given you valuable suggestions and I would like to add one more. It may or may not apply to you but it is something you might want to take a look into. When a horse is not building top line as I would like him to, in addition to saddle fitting, training issues, I will also see whether he is getting enough protein. Basically if a horse is thin on his belly, he needs more fat; if he is thin on his top line, he needs more protein.

[JB]

Many people have given you valuable suggestions and I would like to add one more. It may or may not apply to you but it is something you might want to take a look into. When a horse is not building top line as I would like him to, in addition to saddle fitting, training issues, I will also see whether he is getting enough protein. Basically if a horse is thin on his belly, he needs more fat; if he is thin on his top line, he needs more protein.

EqTrainer addressed that in her third point :)