Does this sound like ulcers to you?

[GettingBack]

Does to me, but I'm no ulcer expert.

Horse - 16.3h 12 year old ex-racer (raced for 10 years). Generally unthrifty - did a powerpak etc. on him but he just doesn't seem to be putting on weight. On 24/7 turnout, low man in totem pole (as in...very low...bottom). When in the stall to eat, if they are in there for very long after eating he will weave, grind his teeth and pace. Riding he's forward, but non-spooky, yet he will grind his teeth and fling his head about. Generally sound, although has arthritis as one would expect with a horse as long on the track as he is.

His back looks like a dinosaur's - huge withers, broad barrel, big dips on each side of the wither. Otherwise he's fairly well built, just skinny. I've tried as best I can to fit his saddle, but that could be suspect. Hocks are...hocky.

I'm trying to figure out the best course of action to make him comfortable sooner rather than later. Since I can't afford the full gamut of treatments (all at once), I'm wondering where to start.

Do I start with potential ulcers?

Do I start with hocks?

Do I throw my hands up in the air and cry uncle? :)

He's a great horse, does anything you ask him to, just...feels like a horse that needs to be restored :)

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Have you had your vet out to evaluate the horse to see what he/she deems as priority?

I would be inclined to do that.


But I would get his teeth floated and keep him on a regular worming program in the meantime.

[Beano]

I would agree -- sounds like ulcers. What are you feeding? If your feed is high in corn is could be adding to the problem. Also, if you are feeding long stemmed hay it could be adding to the problem. I suggest finding a beet pulp based feed -- no corn -- that you can use to get rid of the extra energy and work on the ulcers. Was he any better after the powerpak?

Did you do the powerpak or did someone else?

[GettingBack]

I did the powerpak when I first got him because his worming history was somewhat of an unknown and as unthrifty as he was, it seemed a good bed (also had fungi).

The vet is coming and I will definitely consult with the vet when he/she gets here (it's a practice, so I'm not sure who is going to make it out) but I thought I'd get some opinions from the kind folks here.

[ladipus]

Does to me, but I'm no ulcer expert.

Horse - 16.3h 12 year old ex-racer (raced for 10 years). Generally unthrifty - did a powerpak etc. on him but he just doesn't seem to be putting on weight. On 24/7 turnout, low man in totem pole (as in...very low...bottom). When in the stall to eat, if they are in there for very long after eating he will weave, grind his teeth and pace. Riding he's forward, but non-spooky, yet he will grind his teeth and fling his head about. Generally sound, although has arthritis as one would expect with a horse as long on the track as he is.

His back looks like a dinosaur's - huge withers, broad barrel, big dips on each side of the wither. Otherwise he's fairly well built, just skinny. I've tried as best I can to fit his saddle, but that could be suspect. Hocks are...hocky.

I'm trying to figure out the best course of action to make him comfortable sooner rather than later. Since I can't afford the full gamut of treatments (all at once), I'm wondering where to start.

Do I start with potential ulcers?

Do I start with hocks?

Do I throw my hands up in the air and cry uncle? :)

He's a great horse, does anything you ask him to, just...feels like a horse that needs to be restored :)

Yes...definitely could be ulcers...i'd have his teeth floated,and also either keep him on a good rotational or daily deworming program..next...what are you feeding him?i'd go w/ something as low in starch/sugar as possible-and probably would stay away from corn too...and definitely stay away from sweet feeds...go w/ high fat/fiber and low starch...Triple Crown Low Starch is great...or even Blue Seal Vintage Performance LS are wonderful choices...and offer as much top quality free choice hay as possible-as much as he'll eat..even alfalfa will do wonders for the tummy as well as adding addtional calories. I'd recommend giving a good probiotic as well to help aid digestion-Fastrack,Probios,or Tractguard all work great...and you can give an otc ulcer supplement...Finish Line's U7 Gastric aid liquid is excellent as well as Corta Flx U Guard Solution-dose it into his mouth twice/day to start...unless he's not picky you could put it into his food....you'd be amazed at the difference you'll see in a short amount of time.

If after awhile you'd still like to add more weight try adding plain soaked beetpulp for additional fiber....and you can even add rice bran pellets or something like an extruded fat supplement such as Buckeye Ultimate Finish which will safely add cool calories...But be patient,and don't add everything all at once...and add things slowly/gradually.

It probably also wouldn't be a bad idea to have the vet check out your horses hindend/back...if he's 12yrs old,raced for awhile,then went on to be a riding horse he's probably more than ready for a lube job,and wouldn't be a bad idea to start some joint maintenance for him to keep him comfy and happy.

[GettingBack]

Ooh sorry - missed the other questions :)

The barn where he's at feeds oats and cracked corn. The hay that they have is stemmy (it's a grass hay), but you're right - a BP based feed would probably be a good option - I just have to purchase it myself (which is really no big deal - but I didn't know whether to start there, or start with the vet etc.)

[readytorodeo]

Does to me, but I'm no ulcer expert.

Horse - 16.3h 12 year old ex-racer (raced for 10 years). Generally unthrifty - did a powerpak etc. on him but he just doesn't seem to be putting on weight. On 24/7 turnout, low man in totem pole (as in...very low...bottom). When in the stall to eat, if they are in there for very long after eating he will weave, grind his teeth and pace. Riding he's forward, but non-spooky, yet he will grind his teeth and fling his head about. Generally sound, although has arthritis as one would expect with a horse as long on the track as he is.

His back looks like a dinosaur's - huge withers, broad barrel, big dips on each side of the wither. Otherwise he's fairly well built, just skinny. I've tried as best I can to fit his saddle, but that could be suspect. Hocks are...hocky.

I'm trying to figure out the best course of action to make him comfortable sooner rather than later. Since I can't afford the full gamut of treatments (all at once), I'm wondering where to start.

Do I start with potential ulcers?

Do I start with hocks?

Do I throw my hands up in the air and cry uncle? :)

He's a great horse, does anything you ask him to, just...feels like a horse that needs to be restored :)

It does sound like Ulcers. I would put him on a good ulcer product such as Gastromin from Swedish Horse Power. I would also change his feed. I have a horse that had ulcers we put her on ADM Performance 14% and added Moorglo and Stay Sound. This is low starch and will provide the added fat. If you think his hocks are bothering him I use a product called OCD Pellets and have not had to inject in 8 months. PM me if you want info.

[GettingBack]

I'm not sure what my feed choices are going to be around here, I know that there are some feeds at TSC (I think they carry Farnam), and the other local place carries purina. I'm going to do some checking around to see if anything else is available - most people around here feed sweet feed from a mill.

[pines4equines]

There were tons of threads about 6 months ago on all sorts of feed with higher fat and lower sugar. I think a lot of people feed Ultium if they feed Purina. Why don't you do a search on this forum for that? As well as there was a thread that listed all the nsc of every feed, very informative thread.

Also my guy had ulcers and I learned a lot from Auventura Two's thread called We have ulcers.

I have dispensed with feeding ProCMC however in favor of U7 Gastric Aid which the horse seems to be doing better on. You can search these two products on this forum as well.

[hollyhorse2000]

The only thing proven to HEAL ulcers is Ulcergard/Gastrogard. You can easily to a test to see if it's ulcers. Buy 10 tubes of Ulcergard (over-the-counter) via online for about $30 a tube. Give one tube once a day for ten days. If he's better, putting on weight, then it's ulcers. (it was with my mare and how quickly she put on weight was astounding.) Yes, pricey, unfortunately, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. After a month+ of Ulcergard, lessening the dose over time, I switched to SmartGut and am extremely pleased.

If you don't see much or any change after 10 days, then I'd look at pain and saddle fit. (I'd also do dentist first.) A good saddle fitter won't cost much. Hock injections or Adequan/Legend are probably in your future!

[GettingBack]

Thanks! I am wondering if I ought to wait for the vet before trying to resolve the issue or if I should start prophylatically changing feed/trying the Ulcer-guard etc?

[CamdenLab]

I've sort-of been where you are and in looking back, here is my advice, in order (keeping in mind that he's been PowerPacked already and you're not ready to go the gamut with the UlcerGard). . . Of course, after vetting him, too. This is what has worked for us through trial and error. Now we're onto other issues, like his feet, but at least his weight is looking good!

1. Take him off of the sweet feed / corn / oats.

2. As much turn out as possible.

3. Make sure he has free-fed, high quality grass hay. For a horse your guys' size, he probably needs to eat a lot. My somewhat unthrifty 15.3 hand TB eats approximately 25 lbs of hay per day and five lbs of alfalfa. This translates into approximately 5 - 6 flakes of grass hay and one flake of alfalfa daily. It can be tough at a boarding facility that does not have a lot of hard keepers, and in the past I've had to supplement my own hay.

4. Play around with mollasses-free beet pulp, rice bran and alfalfa pellets/cubes as well as canola oil. Generally, you soak all of this together to make a mush. Start gradually. Make sure you feed no more than four lbs of rice bran per day and one cup of oil per day. If you find you have to feed him a large amount per meal, try to break it up into three feedings per day. I only feed the oil in the winter, during cold spells because that's all he needs.

5. As far as supplements are concerned, I don't know what it was, but synthetics or soy seemed to make my horse grumpy and I don't know if it was an allergy or it hurt his tummy. No clue. All I know is that I took him off of all supplements and he stopped cribbing and became a new horse. When I tried a different vitamin supplement, he was crabby again. Took him off, he was fine. So, I searched for something different and came across HorseTech brand supplements and he was perfectly fine on their PreOx which is flax-based.

6. Have an excellent chiropractor check him out. He's probably out all over the place from the track. Mine was.

I did try a probiotic and it gave him the runs. I think it is be dairy-based though so he could be lactose intolerant. Not sure.

I PowerPaked him in March and so far, no big difference there.

I moved him to a 24/7 turnout situation and he's thriving and happy. I don't feed him quite as much hay because he has four acres of grassy pasture to himself, so he's always grazing. I know this isn't a possibility for everyone. When he was out most of the time, even though it was a very small pasture with no grass to speak of, I just gave him loads of hay.

He also received the full course of UlcerGard. I'm not sure if it helped. Sometimes I think it did, sometimes I think it didn't. If he's better for it, it's maybe around 10%. Not sure if he ever had ulcers or if he did and they started to heal on their own due to management and then the UlcerGard finished them off or what. To scope around here, it's a 8 hour round trip on an empty stomach and I wasn't going to do that to him for this. So, I just treated him.

I wouldn't bother with ulcer supplements. Feed him alfalfa or soaked alfalfa cubes before you ride him and it has the same effect and is probably better for him, especially if he needs to put on weight.

[Simkie]

I don't think you can just address one thing here. I think you need to hit the hocks and the potential stomach issues and change the diet.

Pain will contribute to ulcers. If his hocks are hurting him, then that's impacting his stomach.

A diet high in NSC will also contribute to ulcers.

I'd run him through a lameness exam, address any musclo-skeletal pain, change his diet and either scope him or start him on gastrogard.

[GettingBack]

Thanks guys!

Regarding the Rice bran, alfalfa pellets & bp shreds, that would be a pretty drastic change in diet. Would you start with bp shreds? With pellets?