Where to Start-Mixing my own herbs

[manyspots]

Looking for a little direction!

My gelding is currently on the smartpak dose of Mare Magic but I am planning on buying bulk Raspberry leaves when this is done. If I understand correctly, he should be on 1/4 cup cut/sifted leaves once a day.

I also want to add valerian and maybe chamomile to encourage a little more relaxed disposition. Amounts, cautions? Powder or leaf? Can they be fed "as needed?"

Just for background: we have done the diet route.... highly sensitive during storms, can't have beet or alf due to sensitivities. Is doing well on a complete pellet. In general, just a very nervous nelly.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I didn't know raspberry leafs were for nervousness. I thought they were to aid a mare who was uncomfortable during heat cycles. So I am not sure why I would feed them to a gelding. However, if someone knows more about this feel free to share.

So...he's just nervous? No deficiencies anywhere or signs of ulcers? And he's in regular work/turn out.

Well, as long as you have his diet figured out and it's low in sugars I suppose you could play around with a few things. I don't know a whole lot about herbal remedies but my trainer would and you just have to be careful if you go to certain competitions because some of them will test positive.

I know I have used Arnica for muscle stiffness on my TB. It comes in Sore No More liniment, gel or a tablet from Whole Foods.

[gloriginger]

I highly recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Horse-Herbal-Hilary-Self/dp/1872082858 - valarian will test, and can be quite tough on the liver and kidneys - so please be careful.

[manyspots]

Raspberry leaves have been successfully used on geldings and actually knock down his riggy behavior.

He has had vet exams, eyes checked, etc. He is on the complete pellet and U-Gard, which makes him an incredibly easy keeper. Appetite is great, does not seem ulcery.

Good point on the valerian, does that mean it should be used sparingly, sporadically........

[Androcles]

I wouldn't get this information from a BB. People spend years learning how to do this correctly. It's not just knowing what individual herbs do, but their entire action can change when they are combined with others, and you may not want to use your horse as your learning experiment. Especially the ones you have listed, those are not playtime herbs. The most I would do is take the formula from what you're using and copy it as exactly as possible if your goal is to save money.

[spaghetti legs]

I wouldn't get this information from a BB. People spend years learning how to do this correctly. It's not just knowing what individual herbs do, but their entire action can change when they are combined with others, and you may not want to use your horse as your learning experiment. Especially the ones you have listed, those are not playtime herbs.

Thank you to the above poster! I agree completely.
Do not for one moment think Herbal = Safe. Certain combination's or overdose could be fatal for your horse.

There are also certain posters on here who have delusions about their own levels of experience and qualification and will, without a doubt, give you biased and flawed information.

That said... Have you tried giving him a magnesium supp? How are you addressing his behaviour apart from just diet? Does he get proper exercise, mental stimulation and down time. Do you work with him, rewarding relaxed and calm behaviours? Are you addressing his nervousness from all angles? Are you confusing nerves for pain?

[manyspots]

He is on 24/7 turnout, worked 3-4 days a week right now. Will start seeing the chiro again next week and has a pasture bud he plays with frequently.

I have tried calming supps with mag but not straight mag ox for quiessense yet.

I have often wondered about the pain issue, but even when he working well he is still nervous. My vet essentially told me this is how he is hardwired....

[spaghetti legs]

Yeah absolutely :)

I would try chamomile flowers and chaste berry rather than raspberry leaf..

Chaste Berry has been in use for centuries for balancing and regulating the hormonal system. It gently, but effectively, supports the normal functioning of the pituitary gland, correcting hormonal disturbances. Supporting the progesterone level is extremely helpful in counteracting the irritability and unpredictability that can happen with mares "in season," making them more comfortable, co-operative and safer to handle. Agnus Castus can be used for overly aggressive stallions and geldings. Agnus castus may benefit your mare if she is experiencing mood changes, anxiety, nervous tension, and physical discomfort related to oestrous cycle.

Chamomile s a well known and effective CALMATIVE without making the horse dozy. Eases cases of tension, anxiety and stress. Use for aches and pains. High in calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron, potassium and manganese. An anti-inflammatory aids DIGESTION especially of nervous hyperactive horses.

I've heard good things about Passion flower, which is one of nature's best tranquillisers. This herb will relieves muscle tension, extreme anxiety and nervousness including gastrointestinal complaints of a nervous origin.
http://www.naturallyequine.com/ lots of info out there.

[BornToRide]

I get my guidance form ready made mixes :)

[twofatponies]

Agree about the caution. Some things, like mint, are tasty and innocuous. But valerian is very strong. In general things with a bitter taste can be toxic (army survival manual tip!). Some of them can be used in small quantities or occasionally, but you don't want to give too much and understanding doses and interactions is a science, not perhaps a good thing to dabble in. In general things that are traditional foods in the human diet are pretty harmless - passion fruit juice is a popular drink in Latin America, and is known to be calming. The leaves (tea) have the same effect.

Personally I would cut corners somewhere else, rather than on the herbal supplements, unless you work with a trained herbologist or alternative vet who can advise you.

[twofatponies]

Just to add, I am someone who often uses herbal teas and remedies on myself. The caution I think with using it on horses is that you don't get the feedback. I can drink a cup of herbal tea and see how it is calming or energizing, but notice the mild headache I also got, or how it made me squint in the sun, or maybe upset my stomach a little, or made my heart pound. Your horse can't point out those mild sorts of side effects to you, so it's harder to know if you've got things right or are causing problems.

[Cherry]

Honestly? I think if you have to ask on a bulletin board for this information then chances are you don't know enough to be mixing herbs on your own.

There hasn't been enough research done on the effects of herbs on people, let alone animals! The reality is that herbs can do a lot of damage internally--irreparable damage. You don't want to unknowingly harm your horse, do you??? Once the damage is done it's too late!!!! :uhoh:

There are literally hundreds of remedies on the market that will calm a horse--99.9999% of them do not carry the problems you find with whole herbs. If you haven't tried a product like Equinime I suggest you do so! It contains calcium, magnesium, B-vitamins and some amino acids--these are naturally occuring products, natural muscle relaxants and will never harm a horse--more than I can say for the whole herbs.

[deltawave]

I encourage my heart failure patients to mix and match their medications on their own all the time, especially blood thinners. If they feel they need to add something that sounds like it might work, I tell them to go right ahead. I figure their instincts are good enough, because it's their body after all. :no: :eek: :no:

(jeez, I got a little queasy just typing that)

[BornToRide]

Actually herbs have been used very successsfully and safely for thousands of years, except that knowledge was supressed once the AMA and drug companies became more powerful in this country. This is a really good read on the subject - be sure to read the whole post and do your own reserach if in doubt!
http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1372970#i

[Androcles]

Actually herbs have been used very successsfully and safely for thousands of years, except that knowledge was supressed once the AMA and drug companies became more powerful in this country. This is a really good read on the subject - be sure to read the whole post and do your own reserach if in doubt!
http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1372970#i

Who said they haven't been???? :mad: Do you ever get a point? Do you even read the posts before posting your own replies? They have been used safely and effectively by people who are trained in mixing and prescribing them! If people didn't believe them to be potent, why would every post (but yours) be warning the OP not to try this at home!?! (albeit some more sarcastically than others, only to make a point of course - WHICH YOU MISSED anyway????)

And

I get my guidance form ready made mixes

None of which list quantities, ratios or anything else to copy.

[deltawave]

Actually herbs have been used very successsfully and safely for thousands of years

As evidenced by the average life expectancy of humans (47 years) until the mid-20th century. :lol:

They've also been used very dangerously and unsuccessfully. Sometimes on purpose (poison) and sometimes by accident. Like anything else, it really helps to be an expert.

[Mallard]

The Modern Horse Herbal book by Hilary Self is very good, but I will also add my words of caution...too many or the wrong mixture of herbs can be deadly.

[CosMonster]

I had a dear friend who is an herbalist (for people), and she spent almost a decade learning both from traditional healers and modern science before she started doing it commercially. It really is very difficult to do correctly and like a previous poster said, I imagine even more so with animals because they can't give you feedback so you won't notice things unless they are fairly big problems. I have fed some herbs myself but they were all things known to be safe and nearly impossible to cause problems with. Not like valerian!

Also deltawave does that average age also include the extremely high infant mortality rate there used to be before things like prenatal care and, you know, hospitals? It's an honest question, I seem to recall reading that when you only factor in people who live past the age of 5 the average age jumps significantly, although still of course not what we have now.

[deltawave]

I'm not sure on that, Cos. Just a number I remember from some anthropology course. I'm virtually certain there are lots of other statistics out there, but the gist is there . . . :)