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View Full Version : A new German-Holland battle has started



freestyle2music
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:15 AM
As predicted in another thread Isabell blamed the Dutch judge for not winning the WorldCup finals.


Isabell Werth reacted differently: “It was very close and a hard competition. I hope next time I will have one judge more to decide for me. I think mr Ernes will have to explain something. He gave even more points to Steffen Peters than mrs Zang. Satchmo was very well with me and I was very happy with our performance.”

Anky however stated at the same press conference that it was good for the sport that other riders are winning. Steffen also thanked Anky for her help during the WC-Finals.

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:27 AM
anky also stated she would go home and practice so to beat the other riders next time.:lol:

ridgeback
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:27 AM
As predicted in another thread Isabell blamed the Dutch judge for not winning the WorldCup finals.



Anky however stated at the same press conference that it was good for the sport that other riders are winning. Steffen also thanked Anky for her help during the WC-Finals.

Theo you would be saying the same thing if this had happened to Anky:lol: and we all know what comments Sjef would be making. Would Anky be saying that if she had been riding her first choice?

luckles
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:30 AM
Steffen deserved the win. Maybe some of the judges are finally judging the rides not just "who" the rider is. I am disappointed in Isabell's apparent poor sportsmanship. You expect it from another, not her. Sad.

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:57 AM
I think that's just her nature to be very candid about what she feels and to say whatever comes into her head without a lot of editing, at least you know what's on her mind, LOL. She's been in the sport a long time and people get outspoken. They want to win. As long as she isn't hiring someone to go wack anky in the shin with a pipe, it doesn't bother me if she mouths off now and again. I think competing in a tough sport for decades would make anyone a little rough around the edges. Too, she took a ton of heat for Satchmo and the press isn't particularly all sweetness and light in europe anyway.

Coreene
Apr. 19, 2009, 11:14 AM
As I said on another thread, I was there and the difference between the two last night is that Isabell's kur is technically fab, but doesn't have the va-va-voom that Steffen's has. That's what it came down to, the artistry.

freestyle2music
Apr. 19, 2009, 11:24 AM
As I said on another thread, I was there and the difference between the two last night is that Isabell's kur is technically fab, but doesn't have the va-va-voom that Steffen's has. That's what it came down to, the artistry.

But the artistery consist out of many marks. So you can't say that.
And looking at the scoresheets it's not true also.

Theo

Mardi
Apr. 19, 2009, 12:50 PM
Isabells's comments seem to portray a person who feels each judge is pre-determined to score a certain way, and she has come to depend on it.

Her lack of sportsmanship and ungracious attitude is surprising from someone at that level.

As the saying goes: Sports don't make character, they reveal it.

dq140
Apr. 19, 2009, 05:39 PM
I think Isabell's test was BY FAR better than steffens. No comparison in my book. At least, her horse is through the back and not just doing a bunch of circus tricks!!

Mardi
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:17 PM
OK, I'll bite.

Which circus tricks did Steffen do ?

dutchmike
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:26 PM
Even if she disagrees she should have been more gracefull. Dressage is won or lost by judges points. Great if you win and it sucks if you loose however good sportsmanship is always gracious and not being a sour looser. My opinion on Isabel just went down a couple of points and Anky's went up.

luckles
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:26 PM
Wow...circus tricks??!! I saw the vid and saw only the required movements. A VERY interesting comment.

Alagirl
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:41 PM
I think that's just her nature to be very candid about what she feels and to say whatever comes into her head without a lot of editing, at least you know what's on her mind, LOL. She's been in the sport a long time and people get outspoken. They want to win. As long as she isn't hiring someone to go wack anky in the shin with a pipe, it doesn't bother me if she mouths off now and again. I think competing in a tough sport for decades would make anyone a little rough around the edges. Too, she took a ton of heat for Satchmo and the press isn't particularly all sweetness and light in europe anyway.

LOL, Anky doesn't have to, she has Sjef.... :lol::lol::lol:

Sabine
Apr. 19, 2009, 11:06 PM
Even if she disagrees she should have been more gracefull. Dressage is won or lost by judges points. Great if you win and it sucks if you loose however good sportsmanship is always gracious and not being a sour looser. My opinion on Isabel just went down a couple of points and Anky's went up.

I can understand Isi completely- I thought her freestyle was tighter and better than Steffens' but I think Steffen had a little judge-support and I think he overall deserved it because he performed top world class in BOTH tests, whereas Isi was a little cocky in the GP, lost her concentration and made stupid mistakes afterwards- like trot steps in the pirouettes.

Isi is an amazing rider - trainer- competitor- she has brought numerous horses to worldclass GP levels and trained them all the way HERSELF. Not to be said from Steffen...yet! However I hope that he will attract more sponsor money now and get some amazing youngsters and show his real skill- which I believe he has. Getting Ravel to work like he has, after he had to be cut after importation and deal with a long term hoof injury- my hats off to him for mainly maintaining this amazing swing and elasticity in the horse...great kudos for that.

Isi is tired of being the bridesmaid- I can understand that...and right or wrong- she's gonna have to buckle down and get with it and find a way to be a tad better than the rest...;)

ridgeback
Apr. 20, 2009, 07:35 AM
It just amazes me how AMATEURS really believe they know anything about being at that level let alone give advice to riders at that level. Thank you for making me laugh this morning. I mean seriously people get a grip:lol::lol:

Dutch come on Anky and Sjef would be screaming from the rooftops if they had just lost the WC because of the German judge scoring another rider out of line with everyone else. Anky can be gracious she had no expectations of winning with PB but let us not forget her and Sjef’s whine fest in the press about taking PB. You had three judges that put Isabell first and the American judge had Steffen only one and half points ahead of Isabell in the tech score and only one point ahead in the artistic score. Then you have the Dutch judge and let’s not pretend this was anything but politics had Steffen 4 points ahead in the tech score and 5 in artistic. Do not get me wrong I think Steffen deserved to win as Isabell deserved to win but I sure can understand her frustration. It sure is easy to say poor sportsmanship but when you make your living and have worked your entire adult career to be the best and have this crap go on you might be surprised what comes out of your mouth. Besides, she was stating the facts.

What I find funny is when Anky is quoted in a paper negatively Theo is screaming the press is wrong blah blah blah....LOL

dq140
Apr. 20, 2009, 07:42 AM
OK, I'll bite.

Which circus tricks did Steffen do ?

Any moments performed without the use of the horse's back are circus tricks. A flat back keeps the hind legs out behind the horse. The joints might articulate in a nice way but it is not pure. It amazes me these judges, in such high positions, that cannot evaluate this correctly. Hans Peter's horse was way more through the back as was Satchmo. It is so basic and should be the beginning point of each movement scored in a test...at every level!

Peace
Apr. 20, 2009, 07:57 AM
Any moments performed without the use of the horse's back are circus tricks. A flat back keeps the hind legs out behind the horse. The joints might articulate in a nice way but it is not pure. It amazes me these judges, in such high positions, that cannot evaluate this correctly. Hans Peter's horse was way more through the back as was Satchmo. It is so basic and should be the beginning point of each movement scored in a test...at every level!


From Ridgeback [/QUOTE]Dutch come on Anky and Sjef would be screaming from the rooftops if they had just lost the WC because of the German judge scoring another rider out of line with everyone else. Anky can be gracious she had no expectations of winning with PB but let us not forget her and Sjef’s whine fest in the press about taking PB. You had three judges that put Isabell first and the American judge had Steffen only one and half points ahead of Isabell in the tech score and only one point ahead in the artistic score. Then you have the Dutch judge and let’s not pretend this was anything but politics had Steffen 4 points ahead in the tech score and 5 in artistic. Do not get me wrong I think Steffen deserved to win as Isabell deserved to win but I sure can understand her frustration. It sure is easy to say poor sportsmanship but when you make your living and have worked your entire adult career to be the best and have this crap go on you might be surprised what comes out of your mouth. Besides, she was stating the facts.[/QUOTE]


I have to agree with both Dq140 and ridgeback.

dutchmike
Apr. 20, 2009, 07:58 AM
. You had three judges that put Isabell first and the American judge had Steffen only one and half points ahead of Isabell in the tech score and only one point ahead in the artistic score. Then you have the Dutch judge and let’s not pretend this was anything but politics had Steffen 4 points ahead in the tech score and 5 in artistic.

Politics in Dressage, really?. Oh come on dressage has and always be politics. You know that the day you enter your first competition. If you can't stand the politics then go and do showjumping. Ofcourse we all get pissed if we think we should have won however you keep it to yourself. I try to promote sportsmanship to my students and to have the Top act like a bunch of hormonal teenagers doesn't set a good example.

SaddleFitterVA
Apr. 20, 2009, 08:10 AM
I don't pretend to be a DQ or a dressage judge, but I was there, in person, and watched all the rides.

I think that the top placing was fair, and I did not see any "circus" tricks. I saw a lot of talented riders on amazingly athletic horses. The group of DQs I was with thought that Monica T. was cheated of being in the 2nd or 3rd place.

I loved watching the artistry of some, and also noticed when the music didn't really add a lot. I also noticed that when the tails are gone, some of those rider's butts are coming pretty far out of the saddle on those huge movers.

Of course, my personal laugh is that the USA won with a German immigrant in Dressage, and the Germans won with an American immigrant in Jumping.

ridgeback
Apr. 20, 2009, 08:11 AM
Politics in Dressage, really?. Oh come on dressage has and always be politics. You know that the day you enter your first competition. If you can't stand the politics then go and do showjumping. Ofcourse we all get pissed if we think we should have won however you keep it to yourself. I try to promote sportsmanship to my students and to have the Top act like a bunch of hormonal teenagers doesn't set a good example.

:lol::lol::lol: I hardly say the quote that has been posted from her is poor sportsmanship or a hormonal teenager. If the top does not speak out and show some of those that might not be in the "know" what is going on the politics will never stop. We all know Anky and Sjef have no problem with it when they feel the judges are screwing her.

ridgeback
Apr. 20, 2009, 08:13 AM
Of course, my personal laugh is that the USA won with a German immigrant in Dressage, and the Germans won with an American immigrant in Jumping.


I know I thought that was great:)

dutchmike
Apr. 20, 2009, 08:20 AM
:lol::lol::lol: I hardly say the quote that has been posted from her is poor sportsmanship or a hormonal teenager. If the top does not speak out and show some of those that might not be in the "know" what is going on the politics will never stop. We all know Anky and Sjef have no problem with it when they feel the judges are screwing her.

There you go. The politics will never stop. No matter how hard Isi , Anky ,Sven or whoever screams. Judges have the final word. In other words "suck it up". ;)

ridgeback
Apr. 20, 2009, 08:25 AM
There you go. The politics will never stop. No matter how hard Isi , Anky ,Sven or whoever screams. Judges have the final word. In other words "suck it up". ;)


Disagree I think it can get better the more the LIGHT is shined on it. Although it probably won't get better at the lower levels but it could at the top level. Of course this is just my opinion.

egontoast
Apr. 20, 2009, 08:29 AM
I love it that isabel says what she thinks (apparently) rather than what she thinks people want to hear.

In the end it doesn't matter what they say. It matters how they ride and train and I don't think Isabel has anything to worry about there. I am not in the anti-anky crowd but can see that she is much better than Isabel at PR and saying the right thing (sjef, not so much:lol:)

I think controversy is healthy. If Steffen had placed third, some of you would have something else to whine about. Remember all the Hoo Ha about Brentina. WE WAS ROBBED!!:lol:

Interesting times for those of us who enjoy watching these talented horses and riders.

asb_own_me
Apr. 20, 2009, 09:05 AM
Any moments performed without the use of the horse's back are circus tricks. A flat back keeps the hind legs out behind the horse. The joints might articulate in a nice way but it is not pure. It amazes me these judges, in such high positions, that cannot evaluate this correctly. Hans Peter's horse was way more through the back as was Satchmo. It is so basic and should be the beginning point of each movement scored in a test...at every level!

I have to disagree with you on this. After watching Satchmo, my opinion is that he appears heavy in front and has trailing hocks. I'm not sure if it is an illusion from his back being a touch long, but those are two things that are absolutely distracting to me while watching that horse. I do give Isabell a lot of credit for riding that huge step of his...obviously not an easy step to sit :cool:

The only circus tricks I saw were the few steps of Spanish Walk performed by the Friesian presenting the American flag Saturday night. Steffen's ride on Ravel was fantastic and electric. Ravel was loose and happy through the test, unlike a tense Painted Black whose ears were actually pinned several times during the test, and Satchmo, whose hindquarters seem to not quite catch up at various times.

Regardless of everyone's personal opinions on the technical merits, artistic merits, riding styles, etc, this WC was GREAT! It was so exciting to be there for the entire Thomas & Mack center explode...especially Thursday afternoon in the final moments of Ravel's GP. Was that something or what? Awesome!