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anchorsaway
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:19 AM
Beautiful ride!
:):):):):):)

dsgshowmom
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:24 AM
The second ride? I have been waiting for the freestyle.

Applecore
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:25 AM
ugh, my live feed cut out while waiting for Anky's score, and I only got tiny snippets after that. WHAT HAPPENED??

Thanks.

anchorsaway
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:26 AM
The second ride? I have been waiting for the freestyle.

The freestyle is over..they won!

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:27 AM
you can watch it later on unversal sports, they have on demand viewing on for, i think 24 hr., not sure. it was great!!!!!!:)

anchorsaway
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:28 AM
ugh, my live feed cut out while waiting for Anky's score, and I only got tiny snippets after that. WHAT HAPPENED??

Thanks.

We now have a Second American winning the Rolex FEI World Cup:D

Applecore
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:28 AM
whoohoo!! it was a faaaabulous ride. :) :)

Eventer13
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:30 AM
I was on the edge of my seat waiting for Anky's score. I love Ravel and can't wait to see him in person at the WEG next year.

missliz
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:30 AM
YEAH! How awesome!!!!!! Congrats Steffen and Ravel!

My live feed worked for the first time tonight, hope it works for jumping tommorow!

anchorsaway
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:32 AM
I was on the edge of my seat waiting for Anky's score. I love Ravel and can't wait to see him in person at the WEG next year.

So was I!

I was actually peeking through my fingers to look at her score:lol:

PiaffeDreams
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:33 AM
Oh, my!!! I was so nervous for them. Ravel was H-O-T when he started that test. I was a bit worried, but it just got better and better. Those half-passes.... my gosh that horse is like a big rubber band he's so elastic and Steffen shows it all off.

Wow, wow, wow and changing up the music to add Viva la Vide was PERFECT!

freestyle2music
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:34 AM
Can't you please say THANKS to the Dutch judge ?

I can see the next battle between the Germans and the Dutch rising on the horizon

YankeeLawyer
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:40 AM
That is awesome, and I am especially happy for them as I was sick of reading the pre-WC media coverage saying that first and second place were a lock.

Eventer13
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:43 AM
Can't you please say THANKS to the Dutch judge ?

I can see the next battle between the Germans and the Dutch rising on the horizon

Now, Theo, are you insinuating that the Dutch judge gave Ravel a higher score so he would beat out Satchmo? ;)

freestyle2music
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:54 AM
Now, Theo, are you insinuating that the Dutch judge gave Ravel a higher score so he would beat out Satchmo? ;)

You can read can't you.

I also heard that the Dutch judge will get a casino named after him :D

dsgshowmom
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:01 AM
Incredible! Congratulations Steffen and Ravel, and The Yahoo people!!! Thank you for bringing the win to America!

hideyourheart03
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:02 AM
Congrats to Steffen & Ravel! I didn't get to see it, but I have seen snippets from before and WOWOW!! Even a hunter person like me can recognize AMAZING dressage!

Now lets cheer on Mclain tomorrow to have a US sweep!!

carrie_girl
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:11 AM
It was a truly beautiful ride, and I liked the addition of Coldplay.

Ambrey
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:18 AM
It was a beautiful ride and the insinuation that the score was anything other than earned is pretty offensive. I also loved the Coldplay!

Sabine
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:21 AM
Fantastic Achievement...although in my mind Isabel was very close- maybe better in some aspects...but He deserved to win the whole thing- because he was consistent and the horse is so swingy and supple....!

PiaffeDreams
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:30 AM
Fantastic Achievement...although in my mind Isabel was very close- maybe better in some aspects...but He deserved to win the whole thing- because he was consistent and the horse is so swingy and supple....!

It was so close. Everyone had just a tiny bit of the door open. I love Isabel a ton, but I thought Satchmo got just a little cramped in his frame here and there. Where she was stellar, Steffen was just as stellar... and yes that swingy-ness he maintains through everything... just wow.

Hazelnut
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:44 AM
Can't you please say THANKS to the Dutch judge ?


Yes, I noted that the American and Dutch judges placed as deserved by the ride- thank you!

Hazelnut
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:49 AM
It was so close. Everyone had just a tiny bit of the door open. I love Isabel a ton, but I thought Satchmo got just a little cramped in his frame here and there. Where she was stellar, Steffen was just as stellar... and yes that swingy-ness he maintains through everything... just wow.


Agree, you could just see the suppleness and swing. the transitions and change of bend were wonderful.

I also loved Hans Peter Minderhoud and Nadine tonight. A beautiful ride.

Ambrey
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:54 AM
Agree, you could just see the suppleness and swing. the transitions and change of bend were wonderful.

I also loved Hans Peter Minderhoff and Nadine tonight. A beautiful ride.

Yes, they were lovely! And I loved Pop Art as well!

eks
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:07 AM
I was there at the World Cup and I have to agree with Sabine. Steffen and Isabel both had beautiful rides, but I do think Isabel's test seemed just a bit better...more fluid and she was right on with her music...

But I am thrilled for Steffen and Ravel's owners. Ravel seemed so proud at the awards ceremony..he seems so level headed. Congrats to Iron Spring too!

LOVED that mare Nadine....

Bugs-n-Frodo
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:11 AM
Congrats Steffen!!!! Awesome job!!!

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:15 AM
I am so happy for them! That was a deserved win a long time in the making.
Herzlichen Glueckwunsch, Steffen und Ravel!

Coreene
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:17 AM
I was there too. Isabell was very accurate but without the va-voom that Steffen, Anky and HP had (PB's in the changes were too much to overcome). Fabulous evening. PB was spectacular, and the Colombian guy had more fun than anyone except Steffen. Hope Ravel's left hind doesn't become an issue. What a great night! :D

Hazelnut
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:47 AM
I was there too. Isabell was very accurate but without the va-voom that Steffen, Anky and HP had (PB's in the changes were too much to overcome). Fabulous evening. PB was spectacular, and the Colombian guy had more fun than anyone except Steffen. Hope Ravel's left hind doesn't become an issue. What a great night! :D

Agreed! You summed it up so well. (I was there clapping and cheering right along with you all) I thought the crowd was so appreciative of all the horse and rider combinations and what they each had to offer; just enjoying the moments of brilliance in each test. Lets just bask in the moment - Steffen Peters is the reigning World Cup champion!

yaya
Apr. 19, 2009, 08:48 AM
It was so close. Everyone had just a tiny bit of the door open. I love Isabel a ton, but I thought Satchmo got just a little cramped in his frame here and there. Where she was stellar, Steffen was just as stellar... and yes that swingy-ness he maintains through everything... just wow.


Yes it was close - there were only 4.5 raw points between Isabel and Steffen! (Anky was 28 points behind Steffen)

Barbara_F
Apr. 19, 2009, 08:56 AM
Watch the ride!
http://www.barnmice.com/video/steffen-peters-wins-the-world

ridgeback
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:01 AM
SO happy Steffen won that is sooooooooooo awesome. Ashley must be thrilled as well. Go North America. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:08 AM
I honestly expected ashley holzer's ride to score just a little bit higher, rap (the polish rider) a little lower, though I don't think it would have changed the placings.

anchorsaway
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:56 AM
I honestly expected ashley holzer's ride to score just a little bit higher, rap (the polish rider) a little lower, though I don't think it would have changed the placings.

I was a slightly surprised as well that Ashley's ride didn't score higher...

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:04 AM
you too? yes I was thinking that would be an 81 or 82, not a 79, but i may have missed something while pouring the champagne, LOL.

akrogirl
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:43 AM
you too? yes I was thinking that would be an 81 or 82, not a 79, but i may have missed something while pouring the champagne, LOL.

We were also expecting Ashley to score a little higher - she had a beautiful ride.

Bluey
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:55 AM
You can read can't you.

I also heard that the Dutch judge will get a casino named after him :D

The win was clearly deserved, that post is in very poor taste.:no:
I don't understand why that is even on this thread.:confused:

Plantagenet
Apr. 19, 2009, 11:32 AM
What a horse Ravel is...very exciting to see the USA win the WC!

I also expected Ashley to get a higher score...any ideas as to why not? I keep hearing that the judges want to see you do well multiple times before they are willing to give you the big scores. Anyone here think so?

Also, does anyone else think Nadine looks crammed together and not through her back? (despite the legs flying everywhere)

Coreene
Apr. 19, 2009, 12:10 PM
While Ashley's test was great, the package didn't have it It Factor that the top four did. That class was placed spot on. We met Madeline Winter Schutze (sp) at the Rolex party before. What a fabulous lady, she has done so much for the sport and Isabel could not have a better sponsor. Too bad there are not 100 of her!

freestyle2music
Apr. 19, 2009, 12:15 PM
The win was clearly deserved, that post is in very poor taste.:no:
I don't understand why that is even on this thread.:confused:

Because 3 of the 5 judges had Isabelle on the first spot.
And the Dutch judge gave Ravel 9% higher then Isabell.

Hello wake up ! It's the talk of the day.

And just for your information I have a closer relation and a very deep feeling for Ravel, and I loved it that he and Steffen won, but it's the same old story again. Solution : 7 judges and the highest and lowest score scratched <period>

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 12:21 PM
Theo, you have to learn, when we win the judges have finally come to their senses, when we lose, the judges are blind corrupt and insane.:lol:

War Admiral
Apr. 19, 2009, 12:26 PM
Theo, you have to learn, when we win the judges have finally come to their senses, when we lose, the judges are blind corrupt and insane.:lol:

Word. :D

Bluey
Apr. 19, 2009, 12:27 PM
Because 3 of the 5 judges had Isabelle on the first spot.
And the Dutch judge gave Ravel 9% higher then Isabell.

Hello wake up ! It's the talk of the day.

And just for your information I have a closer relation and a very deep feeling for Ravel, and I loved it that he and Steffen won, but it's the same old story again. Solution : 7 judges and the highest and lowest score scratched <period>

So what, that is what competition is for, to get OPINIONS.
How many times have opinions denied Ravel or any other a win and is that not part of the game, that is played around opinions?;)

There is another thread for that discussion, that was my point.:yes:

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:07 PM
What a horse Ravel is...very exciting to see the USA win the WC!

I also expected Ashley to get a higher score...any ideas as to why not? I keep hearing that the judges want to see you do well multiple times before they are willing to give you the big scores. Anyone here think so?

Also, does anyone else think Nadine looks crammed together and not through her back? (despite the legs flying everywhere)


i thought ashley's ride was the most *correct* - it was quite lovely. however it didn't have that manufactured tension (which i dont like at all) that is necessary to win nowadays.... (ie wow factor) ... i think she should of scored higher.

i also think that nadine is just...... yuk. that neck is so wrong and she is ridden so tight. just not my cup of tea.

i thought that IW should of won. her ride seems "better" , altho i think ashley's was the most correct of all. so kudo's for her. i hope she stays true and doenst change how she rides now that she is sooo close.

ButterflyIris
Apr. 19, 2009, 01:46 PM
I disagree.

In person Nadine is BEAUTIFUL and so elastic. She does not appear tense at all.

I agree that Ashley doesn't have as much WOW factor and that is scored, I think, as technical difficulty. But still an AMAZING and harmonious ride. This was a very tough field and Anne Gribbons said in the beginning, very evenly matched, so the competitors really had to crank it up to get those scores.

And congrats Steffan!! I saw him before the competition talking to the owners and he had a gleam in his eye like some magic was going to happen and it did! Wish I could have bet on him!

Did you see the one handed one-tempis during the ceremony?? Pretty cool!!

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:04 PM
In ashley's test there werre quite a few MORE-THAN-WOW moments like that unbelievable half pass.

I'm one of the Nadine fans. She is very energetic, but she is also very flowing and very correct in most of what she does.

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:06 PM
ok, probably a stoopid question ;), but why is manufactured tension considered a good thing and added difficulty when supposedly in dressage it is all about relaxation (you know the bottom of the training scale), harmony etc?

eta. yes i think Ashley had some amazing moments, the half passes were really nice... it literally was the only ride that gave me chills and made me happy.

the others, while maybe correct as in no errors, just pretty much left me cold.

Coreene
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:18 PM
If you had been there and were not an internet feed judge, you would have seen what the judges did and why they scored as they did. "Manufactured tension" - wtf?

Bluey
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:33 PM
If you had been there and were not an internet feed judge, you would have seen what the judges did and why they scored as they did. "Manufactured tension" - wtf?

That is what I was thinking, plus if you have scribed, you know that it depends where you stand what the performance looks like and what you may miss.

That is why some are judges and the rest of us are not, because they know and see what the rest don't, important when some rides are so close.

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 02:38 PM
no wonder dressage has such a bad name :) ask a question and you are told what a bad person you are :) :)

maybe manufactured tension aren't the right words - but you have to admit that the difference between say ashley's ride, which was very harmonious, correct and relaxed and any of the other top rides is tension. whether you want to consider good or bad tension is guess depends on how you view it.

but since relaxation is the bottom of the training scale i don't get why adding in that amped up energy (ie wow) is needed and why it scores so high...

Ambrey
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:07 PM
I thought, in the details, that Ashley's ride also lacked some preciseness. What always strikes me about the top riders is how spot on their timing is, with everything in the right places. There was just a little less of that in Ashley's ride.

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 03:12 PM
"ask a question and you are told what a bad person you are "

No one said that. They just didn't agree with you. There's a difference.

"Manufactured tension". What do you mean? The reins look too tight? Horse looks too excited? Horse lifting his legs up too far? Horse's neck looks too shortened to you? Horse has an 'exaggerated' look to it? The motions are just too fast?

There is a certain amount of 'tension' with impulsion and that's very obvious in the collected gaits - or should be. These horses are trained to perform with maximum impulsion. That means harnessed energy, that's what bends their joints, swings their back and hips and shoulders. Look at videos of Karin Offield riding Lingh vs Edward Gal. The horse has more impulsion with Edward. It gives him an 'exaggerated' look, if you will. It's what some people call 'sparkle' or 'flair' or 'panache'. It's impulsion that gives the gaits more lift, more bounce, more flexion of the joints, the performance more 'oomph'.

My own feeling is that there is a certain amount of excitement in the horses. They actually look rather pleasantly quiet most of the time in the warmup, except when they're playing. I look more at how the horses look when they're schooling, because in the ring, the rider is asking for the utmost, it's extremely noisy, bright and distracting, and the horses get excited.

I have a point at which to me, it seems too hectic and too excited. I think most people do, but it's important to realize that that for an international rider or judge, that point might be farther up the ladder than people who do lower level dressage might think it should be.

At one point Nadine made a couple turns that even Robert Dover commented on as being too quick and hectic, but it seemed to not get reflected in a much lower score, I guessed 'really good but too fast' is a 7, and not a 3 or 4. Some people want it to be a 3 or 4? I don't think it's going to be.

So obviously, there is a different of opinion as to exactly at what point it's too fast and too hectic - or in some cases that isn't it at all, it isn't being condoned by the judge at all, but other items bring the score up.

Too, modern tastes simply are for very, very hot horses. We want to see invisible aids and horses that come out for class after class and eagerly do extended trots and piaffes without the rider so much as twitching a muscle. That sort of horse is just - hot. And sometimes at shows they get excited.

"Preciseness". Ashley's ride wasn't actually lacking in precision, I don't think so at all. She just had a few things that brought her score down, actually I thought the score was low by 2-3 points, but I probably missed something.

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 05:40 PM
i dont think, you could say any of the top 3 horses were "relaxed" - or, at least i couldn't say that.

to *me* a lot of it looks like auction riding where you do what it takes to make the legs go as far/high as possible.

think about it - i think it was nadine's extension that everyone cheered for and RD even made a comment about how high those legs were going - i thought it was so tension filled/non tracking up, and her neck just so cranked in a tight/short. While i agree that the gaits should get better with training - how high a horse flings its legs is not, to me, a sign of correct dressage training.

the horse being able to do the movements correctly in a relaxed and harmonious way - is.

but hey - i am all for "old school" dressage... so i don't really expect others to agree with me. nor do i think that dressage will be able to be accessible to the "masses" unless you dumb it down like they are. "how high a horse throws it legs" and "how precise the movements are" are easy things for the masses to get. all this technical stuff like throughness, correct usage of the back, self carriage, engagement, collection, forward thinking hands etc etc is too deep and wont sell dressage.

fiona
Apr. 19, 2009, 06:35 PM
Shuffling about in a moribund trot is not relaxation. Neither is it dressage.

What Steffen Peters and Ravel did in the WC qualifier was. The people that appreciate that are not dumb, i expect they have some small clue of what is involved.

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 06:45 PM
Shuffling about in a moribund trot is not relaxation. Neither is it dressage.

What Steffen Peters and Ravel did in the WC qualifier was. The people that appreciate that are not dumb, i expect they have some small clue of what is involved.

? who said anything about "Shuffling around in a moribund trot?"

do you think that ashley's ride was shuffling? because i thought her ride was fabulous and relaxed and harmonious and is what i mean by "relaxed" and is the kind of riding i like to see. :)

freestyle2music
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:17 PM
Theo, you have to learn, when we win the judges have finally come to their senses, when we lose, the judges are blind corrupt and insane.:lol:


What worries me the most is that when these finals were held in Aachen Isabell would have won, when they were held in Den Bosch Anky would have won, and now because it was Las Vegas Steffen won.

Like Anky stated in an article today : Isabell now knows how I allways felt at Aachen.


Theo

dutchfan
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:29 PM
? who said anything about "Shuffling around in a moribund trot?"

do you think that ashley's ride was shuffling? because i thought her ride was fabulous and relaxed and harmonious and is what i mean by "relaxed" and is the kind of riding i like to see. :)

mbm - what you mean by "relaxed" is not what the meaning of relaxation in the training scale is. At the recent FEI trainers conference Henk van Bergen described "relaxtion" in the training scale as the "ability to feel the riders aids". Of course this was in the USDF Connection magazine- but then again you aren't even a member of USDF....

slc2
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:33 PM
""how high a horse throws it legs" and "how precise the movements are" are easy things for the masses to get. all this technical stuff like throughness, correct usage of the back, self carriage, engagement, collection, forward thinking hands etc etc is too deep and wont sell dressage.
"

Watch out precious, when you step off that high horse you're going to have a long way back down to the ground!!!!!!

" i am all for "old school" dressage"

Ever watch Podhajsky? In a competition, his horses ran around like their tails were on fire. You don't get much older old school than that. I'm not sure if the 'old school' dressage you prefer actually exists.

"Relaxed" doesn't mean the horse is moving around like the queen on sedatives doing the royal wave. It means the horse is able to listen to the rider, and his muscles let the aids go through his body.

He's SUPPOSED to be moving like he has a bus to catch.

When you're ready, why don't you let us all in on how you avoided becoming one of 'the masses'. Should make for fascinating reading. I've read a lot of arrogant things here, I've even tried to write some of them...but nothing....NOTHING quite as primo as THAT.

onetempies
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:38 PM
WTG Steffen! I just saw him clinic at Equine Affaire in Ohio which was FABULOUS! Loved watching Ravel go in both the Grand Prix & Freestyle. IW had a mistake in the 2s and opted to not try them again. If she had and went mistake free, she probably would have taken the title again. LOVE Nadine, although, I will say that she was more relaxed in the Grand Prix than Freestyle. In the Freestyle, she looked like she was really trying hard to keep from just blowing. Pop Art had a very nice go as well which I thought should have scored a tad higher just based on the technical aspect. The one thing that I really didn't care for is Whisper's walk work. It just seems disjointed and hitchy at times which may be attributed to the action up front. Dunno, I just couldn't figure out what was going on with that...

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:39 PM
mbm - what you mean by "relaxed" is not what the meaning of relaxation in the training scale is..

so again, what ashley presented was not correct dressage? obviously the judges thought so as she scored fairly well, so did RD as his comments were quite complimentary.

as for *my* version of old school..... klimkes riding is a very good example of what i "like" , also monica theodorescu, and now ashley holzer, and a few others....

i haven't seen podhasjky live, so no can't comment there.

what i have seen of older "style" dressage - it looks far more relaxed that many rides nowadays.

:)

mbm
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:54 PM
""how high a horse throws it legs" and "how precise the movements are" are easy things for the masses to get. all this technical stuff like throughness, correct usage of the back, self carriage, engagement, collection, forward thinking hands etc etc is too deep and wont sell dressage.
"

Watch out precious, when you step off that high horse you're going to have a long way back down to the ground!!!!!!

When you're ready, why don't you let us all in on how you avoided becoming one of 'the masses'. Should make for fascinating reading. I've read a lot of arrogant things here, I've even tried to write some of them...but nothing....NOTHING quite as primo as THAT.
:rolleyes:

by "masses" i dont mean dressage folk. i mean all the non dressage-y people that show organizers, etc would like to attract to dressage.

the only way it is going to be accesible to the non dressage people is to make it easy to understand with easy to "get" criteria that makes sense to those watching.

elio
Apr. 19, 2009, 09:59 PM
What a BEAUTIFUL ride !!!!!!!!!!! Congrats Steffen and Ravel!!! Yeah USA!!:D:D:D

akor
Apr. 19, 2009, 10:38 PM
Just watched the ride and could not stop smiling.

I'm of the "old school" crowd, but what that means to me is "smoother" or maybe more fluid transitions in and out of gaits and oh, that sit in the piaffe was wonderful to see.

I don't think I can call a GP horse relaxed, how I put it is I like seeing them "on the line" of "explosion", but waiting to be given the aid/cue (not sure how to phrase it correctly) to explode, not being "held back" from doing so. I can't quite phrase it correctly, but it's just something I personally see as a difference in rides these days. I don't like the rides where it seems like the riding is "restraining" the horse as much as I like the rides where the rider appears to be "freeing" the horse to excel and channel the energy into fluid movements.

Not surprising that I loved Steffen's ride.

Mardi
Apr. 19, 2009, 11:25 PM
Like Anky stated in an article today : Isabell now knows how I allways felt at Aachen.



Good grief. The more Isabell and Anky say, the worse it gets.

Dressage Art
Apr. 20, 2009, 12:00 AM
Congratulations to Steffen and Ravel and Akiko Yamazaki! What a great team. Thank you for bringing the win to US!

Sabine
Apr. 20, 2009, 12:13 AM
""how high a horse throws it legs" and "how precise the movements are" are easy things for the masses to get. all this technical stuff like throughness, correct usage of the back, self carriage, engagement, collection, forward thinking hands etc etc is too deep and wont sell dressage.
"

Watch out precious, when you step off that high horse you're going to have a long way back down to the ground!!!!!!

" i am all for "old school" dressage"

Ever watch Podhajsky? In a competition, his horses ran around like their tails were on fire. You don't get much older old school than that. I'm not sure if the 'old school' dressage you prefer actually exists.

"Relaxed" doesn't mean the horse is moving around like the queen on sedatives doing the royal wave. It means the horse is able to listen to the rider, and his muscles let the aids go through his body.

He's SUPPOSED to be moving like he has a bus to catch.

When you're ready, why don't you let us all in on how you avoided becoming one of 'the masses'. Should make for fascinating reading. I've read a lot of arrogant things here, I've even tried to write some of them...but nothing....NOTHING quite as primo as THAT.

Boy- slick- I am becoming one of your fans...(slap my hand...)- but that was a really great post..haha!!

atr
Apr. 20, 2009, 01:06 AM
Well, I was sitting there in the arena last night. I made a last minute decision to go, and I'm so glad I did.

SP's ride was lovely, harmonious, as error free as you can expect with two live beings working together, the horse was just on his game, the music worked, it was a great, classical, historically significant ride.

Satchmo was disobedient. From where I was sitting he looked a bit stiff and cranky and hollow. I think they scored quite high for how the performed. I think he's done as an international horse.

PB was on one. He was fighting Anky's hand and just not quite as through as one might have liked. (As a total aside, I thought AnKy behaved very badly in the awards ceremony. I'm sure she could have got that stand-in horse to stand still if she had bothered to try, rather than meandering about.)

Ashley Holzer had a lovely technical ride, but her music was confused and puddingy and rather boring. If she could get that part of her performance together, she'd be way, way up there. She's an outstanding rider, and that is a lovely horse. But she wasn't robbed.

I'm going to bed now.

unbridledoaks
Apr. 20, 2009, 02:13 AM
Lovely ride! Congrats Steffen and Ravel!!!

freestyle2music
Apr. 20, 2009, 11:21 AM
Well, I was sitting there in the arena last night. I made a last minute decision to go, and I'm so glad I did.

SP's ride was lovely, harmonious, as error free as you can expect with two live beings working together, the horse was just on his game, the music worked, it was a great, classical, historically significant ride.

Satchmo was disobedient. From where I was sitting he looked a bit stiff and cranky and hollow. I think they scored quite high for how the performed. I think he's done as an international horse.

PB was on one. He was fighting Anky's hand and just not quite as through as one might have liked. (As a total aside, I thought AnKy behaved very badly in the awards ceremony. I'm sure she could have got that stand-in horse to stand still if she had bothered to try, rather than meandering about.)

Ashley Holzer had a lovely technical ride, but her music was confused and puddingy and rather boring. If she could get that part of her performance together, she'd be way, way up there. She's an outstanding rider, and that is a lovely horse. But she wasn't robbed.

I'm going to bed now.

Maybe I watched the wrong channel, but I noticed at least 4 mistakes during the ride of SP.

It seems to come down to the same old story again. The Dutch don't want to see the errors of the Dutch riders, the Germans are blind for the errors of the German riders, and the Americans don't want to see the errors of the American riders.

Theo

Cooper
Apr. 20, 2009, 11:27 AM
Satchmo disobedient??? Hong Kong, yes. Las Vegas, no. Honestly, Isabell could easily have been the winner. I am thrilled for Steffen, but come on, Isabell turned in a beautiful ride. Apparently 3 of the Judges agree.

Ambrey
Apr. 20, 2009, 11:29 AM
Satchmo disobedient??? Hong Kong, yes. Las Vegas, no. Honestly, Isabell could easily have been the winner. I am thrilled for Steffen, but come on, Isabell turned in a beautiful ride. Apparently 3 of the Judges agree.

She certainly did. The scores were very close, and it could have been either of them- if she hadn't had an error in the 2s she would have won.

There were a LOT of beautiful rides! Definitely some amazing talent :)

Hazelnut
Apr. 20, 2009, 11:44 AM
What a horse Ravel is...very exciting to see the USA win the WC!

I also expected Ashley to get a higher score...any ideas as to why not? I keep hearing that the judges want to see you do well multiple times before they are willing to give you the big scores. Anyone here think so?

Also, does anyone else think Nadine looks crammed together and not through her back? (despite the legs flying everywhere)

Ashley's ride was lovely in places, but for what my opinion is worth it wasn't as dynamic over all and the use of the arena wasn't as imaginative.

I thought Nadine was amazing. I think Hans Peter and Nadine are a wonderful combination...I loved that freestyle.

The absolute best part of being there was enjoying each ride and the moments of brilliance.

YAY! USA Steffen Peters and Ravel were wonderful. The music matched the pair and the transitions weren't predicatable (by that I mean the flow of the music didn't always "foreshadow" the next move which added an element of surprise). I loved Painted Black. He has lovely half passes and extentions...but is so strong in the bridle. Isabele was so focused and Satchmo's mind was with her in the Freestyle...but I didn't get that artistic WOW from that pair.

A great night of dressage - YAY! USA! It was so close. Someone has to win and this time Steffen Peter's wonderful riding and the harmony of the pair was rewarded.

Hazelnut
Apr. 20, 2009, 11:52 AM
Well, I was sitting there in the arena last night. I made a last minute decision to go, and I'm so glad I did.


PB was on one. He was fighting Anky's hand and just not quite as through as one might have liked. (As a total aside, I thought AnKy behaved very badly in the awards ceremony. I'm sure she could have got that stand-in horse to stand still if she had bothered to try, rather than meandering about.)


I'm going to bed now.

Just an FYI, many of the horses did not and could not stnad still during the prize giving. There were some pretty big explosions and in some cases riders got their award and asked to exit immediately. Anky wasn't the only one over the week that let the horse wander rather than try for standing still during the prize giving. I think each rider has to know their horse and what it will tolerate.

Ravel and his runners up did a pretty nice "let's get out of here" when Sabine Kerry rode in with the flag on Grand Prix night. Sabine didn't even TRY to come in as far with the flag on Freestyle Night as she was directed in the practice run for the prize giving earlier in the day. From where I sat (pretty close) Painted Black was a hand full and she was making a concession to that, NOT being rude.

OH! It was a stand in horse...well...wwho knows then!

atr
Apr. 20, 2009, 02:38 PM
Theo, I'm English, so I'm so far off having a dog in this fight it's not funny! I don't give a nationalistic toot for who wins as long as they turn in the best ride, and I'm just speaking of it as I saw it, for what it's worth.

It was all so close. I'd hate to have to judge this stuff.

tm
Apr. 20, 2009, 03:23 PM
You guys.... I know, what's the point of having an on line forum if you don't get to nitpick :) but here's what I saw:

I had a pretty good vantage point. I was standing at arena level, pretty darn close to the ring. I watch dressage for a living. And you know what? This was all good stuff. Kudos to all of them. But kudos especially to Steffen, for putting two beautiful rides together back to back.

I've been blogging from the World Cup all week:

http://terrimiller.wordpress.com/

And I should have the photo galleries up in a day or two.

ThatScaryChick
Apr. 20, 2009, 04:24 PM
You guys.... I know, what's the point of having an on line forum if you don't get to nitpick :) but here's what I saw:

I had a pretty good vantage point. I was standing at arena level, pretty darn close to the ring. I watch dressage for a living. And you know what? This was all good stuff. Kudos to all of them. But kudos especially to Steffen, for putting two beautiful rides together back to back.

I've been blogging from the World Cup all week:

http://terrimiller.wordpress.com/

And I should have the photo galleries up in a day or two.

I just checked out your link. The pictures are very nice!

Jenn2674
Apr. 20, 2009, 04:53 PM
I get the feeling that some of you equate energy with tension. Relaxed as it pertains to dressage is not human being relaxed on the beach. You can and should have lots and lots of energy and impulsion with dressage, just not the on the verge of exploding kind of energy. No high, flamboyant, and expressive legs to not mean better but they aren't wrong either. Much of that has to do with the horses natural way of going and how they transfer that energy into their work.

Sandy M
Apr. 20, 2009, 05:49 PM
I was there at the World Cup and I have to agree with Sabine. Steffen and Isabel both had beautiful rides, but I do think Isabel's test seemed just a bit better...more fluid and she was right on with her music...

But I am thrilled for Steffen and Ravel's owners. Ravel seemed so proud at the awards ceremony..he seems so level headed. Congrats to Iron Spring too!

LOVED that mare Nadine....


I thought Isabell's ride was lovely, BUT... while it might have been right "on" the music - it just didn't do much for me artistically. Technically, WONDERFUL. Artistically - To me it was, she was riding, there was music. It "sorta" followed the horse's footsteps/transitions, but interpretation/artistry? eh. I thought the other Dutch woman (little lady on BIG horse) had better music/artistical, if not technical (so she placed correctly), as did, of course Anky, Minderhout (?), Ashley Holzer and Pop Art and the chestnut that performed to light pop music that really suited the "light" mare. But Steffan's had it all - the technical and the artisticl.

Sheila
Apr. 20, 2009, 10:35 PM
I tried to post pictures of Steffna's hors and some from the course walk but I keep geting error messages...

eks
Apr. 20, 2009, 10:37 PM
Satchmo disobedient??? Hong Kong, yes. Las Vegas, no. Honestly, Isabell could easily have been the winner. I am thrilled for Steffen, but come on, Isabell turned in a beautiful ride. Apparently 3 of the Judges agree.

I totally agree. I was there...2nd row...no disobedience whatsoever...Thursday was another story, but on Saturday night Satchmo and Isabell performed beautifully. I thought she put in the best test and had the most harmonious ride. I am happy for Steffen but I was disappointed in how far apart the 2 high scoring judges were from the other 3...would have made me feel a bit better if one of the 2 high scoring ones wasn't from the US.

ESG
Apr. 20, 2009, 10:48 PM
What worries me the most is that when these finals were held in Aachen Isabell would have won, when they were held in Den Bosch Anky would have won, and now because it was Las Vegas Steffen won.

Like Anky stated in an article today : Isabell now knows how I allways felt at Aachen.


Theo

Umm, no.

Anky now knows how it feels to take her number two horse, and not be the favorite. That's what she's (and you?) are pissed about, and why they almost didn't come. After her plans to take both her Olympic mount and #2 were thwarted because she couldn't qualify Salinero due to a back injury (hers), she and Sjef were ready to blow off LV, because she didn't want to come off second best by riding her second horse. NIce sportsmanship, eh? :rolleyes:

freestyle2music
Apr. 21, 2009, 07:40 AM
Umm, no.

Anky now knows how it feels to take her number two horse, and not be the favorite. That's what she's (and you?) are pissed about, and why they almost didn't come. After her plans to take both her Olympic mount and #2 were thwarted because she couldn't qualify Salinero due to a back injury (hers), she and Sjef were ready to blow off LV, because she didn't want to come off second best by riding her second horse. NIce sportsmanship, eh? :rolleyes:


My God can't you read. Anky was the most happy camper at Vegas. No pressure at all. She had nothing to loose. We got to watch hours of videos from "behind the screen" , and knowing her for over 25 years I can tell you that she was having a good time. Don't you think it shows good sportmanship when you help you fellow competitor (Steffen ;) )

The funniest thing I found in all these discussion is the fact that (like me) you all loved the live-comment that Robert Dover gave, but you didn't want to hear what he said about the hobbles in the test of Ravel.

Theo

Hazelnut
Apr. 21, 2009, 08:54 AM
I totally agree. I was there...2nd row...no disobedience whatsoever...Thursday was another story, but on Saturday night Satchmo and Isabell performed beautifully. I thought she put in the best test and had the most harmonious ride. I am happy for Steffen but I was disappointed in how far apart the 2 high scoring judges were from the other 3...would have made me feel a bit better if one of the 2 high scoring ones wasn't from the US.

Were you sitting next to me? Were you the one who left right after the scores came out? ;)

I think the USA has felt the same way as you describe yourself feeling many times.

ESG
Apr. 21, 2009, 09:45 AM
My God can't you read. Anky was the most happy camper at Vegas. No pressure at all. She had nothing to loose. We got to watch hours of videos from "behind the screen" , and knowing her for over 25 years I can tell you that she was having a good time. Don't you think it shows good sportmanship when you help you fellow competitor (Steffen ;) )Theo

Yes, I read quite well, actually. And, assuming that you do, too, here's something you might find of interest. Anky and Sjef apparently had a bit of soul searching to do, before they would contemplate Anky not going and being guaranteed a win,..................... :p

A quote from the WC program, "John Q's Corner". You decide.

"Holland's Anky van Grunsven, the reigning Olympic and World Cup dressage champion on super horse Salinero, gave her horse a deserved rest after the Games, while practicing in competition with her number two horse, Painted Black and in the process, qualified that horse for the last Vegas Rolex FEI World Cup, while intending to defend her World Cup title on Salinero by qualifying that tried and true champion in the two final trials, a plan which blew up when Anky had a back injury which kept her out of one of the two required trials.
This was a serious dilemma for our Las Vegas World Cup. As a matter of business and pride, Anky, who definitely does not like to lose in the show ring, had no interest in riding the relatively inexperienced number two horse in the big show and shifting the odds to her competition. No Salinero, no Anky and a World Cup Final without the Number One rider is like a golf tournament without you know who.
Now the question was whether the FEI qualifying rules could be bypassed under special rules in the books which might well be effective here. The dilemma here is that, rule books notwithstanding, there would be widespread resentment in a sport which is highly sensitive in such situations, if the best horse and rider got a break from the authorities."
<snip>
As of March 9, that was the situation. And then,...............

"In the meantime, it was clear that our dressage ticket sales were down at Las Vegas because of the worldwide financial crisis but also because the battle of the Big Three, Anky, Isabell and Steffen, would probably not take place. At no time did Las Vegas ask Anky to change her mind and compete at the event to help us out, no matter which horse or horses were approved by the FEI. She had her reasons, and they were valid and understandable.
On March 24, Sjef wrote, out of the blue, "Dear John, we changed our mind completely and we decided that we will start Painted Black in LV, so we will come out and meet with you again!!! We think we better keep the honor to ourselves and go for it with a different horse although our chances will be limited, of course. For the sake of sportsmanship and the audience that will show up in Vegas we thought we have to make this decision."

So, what happened in the three or so weeks between the "absolute no" on March 9, and the "See you there, no matter what!" on March 27? :confused:

Theo, maybe you can do some sleuthing on the matter, being so well connected and all. :winkgrin:

claire
Apr. 21, 2009, 10:12 AM
My God can't you read. Anky was the most happy camper at Vegas. No pressure at all. She had nothing to loose.
Theo

:confused: Hmmm. As I recall, the initial response from Team Anky was the threat of a lawsuit and the following "happy camper" statements to the press:



Janssen does not expect his wife to ride Painted Black. "With Painted she can win a medal, or finish eighth. And for that she won't travel half the globe. If she goes, she goes to win," Janssen said. Anky herself said that she still wants to think about it, but stated that she shares the same viewpoint with Janssen.

claire
Apr. 21, 2009, 10:35 AM
Anky and Sjef apparently had a bit of soul searching to do, before they would contemplate Anky not going and being guaranteed a win,.....................

So, what happened in the three or so weeks between the "absolute no" on March 9, and the "See you there, no matter what!" on March 27? :confused:



Maybe, they realized that their public remarks and position did not go over so well...Even in their own country, their remarks were considered to be unsportsmanlike and entitled.

(From the initial Anky/LV thread: comments from the Dutch bokt.nl article)


"Tsja! You must not squeal"!

Interesting. From bokt.nl ( the Dutch version of COTH? ;) )

There were seven pages of comments on their news that Anky will not go to LV. The vast majority seeming to be versions of "Hard luck, but FEI should not make exceptions".

(I would think bokt.nl would be more pro Anky than not? :confused: )

Some of the comments on bokt.nl:

"Opposite Anky / Sjef, I find it very appropriate that she has no wildcard. Clear case of mismanagement: not ready in time for Amsterdam and Neumunster, Goteborg not possible due to another game ...in Florida and a business trip to China ... tsja, you must not squeal.

But for the organization and for 'equestrian' I find it a sad case. It is said before the World cup final is a match between the champions of the world, and there is the combination Anky / Salinero is at. But I also think that the FEI is completely unbelievable if they had made the wildcard did granted: 1. has not fulfilled the conditions and 2. ... there do not even requested a wildcard ... This allows you as an organization does not make, so at your own rules to avoid one rider 'to draw': you get only talk about 'favoritism' and stuff".


"Everyone can be a time of luck but with horses you can never assume that they are healthy and remain so even by Anky had better be drilled after the ox and the first two races driving, they need only to start and had no points needed , well if you want to start the last two then you have no placement option when an injury of yourself or your horse is between, but you accept loss, learn from and continue to draw in my eyes a great sportmens.dit it is undoubtedly but now it seems as if for her but an exception must be because they are so good in the sport you're as good as your last game and has not won".

Coreene
Apr. 21, 2009, 11:03 AM
And in the end she did go, so what the f#&k ever, ya know? Went balls out, had a fabulous ride on a breathtaking horse and was one of the high points in an evening filled with one magic moment after another. Gawd, everyone was bitching because she wasn't going. She decided to go went, and you're still bitching about it. HelLO, she went!

Coreene
Apr. 21, 2009, 11:10 AM
Claire, I wish you could have gone. We sat with Aunt Esther! :lol:

freestyle2music
Apr. 21, 2009, 11:29 AM
Maybe, they realized that their public remarks and position did not go over so well...Even in their own country, their remarks were considered to be unsportsmanlike and entitled.

(From the initial Anky/LV thread: comments from the Dutch bokt.nl article)



This is absolute hilarious. Quoting Bokt.NL :D:D:D:D:D:D

And for your information No Anky isn't populair at Bokt, because it's the same as on most BB's, a gathering of frustrated around the BBQ riders, with an IQ that comes close to the score of Jan Ebeling at Vegas.

But.... there are also dressage forums for more educated dressage fans in Holland.

So please get your records straights and don't sell so much nonsens.

Theo

Ambrey
Apr. 21, 2009, 11:32 AM
She sure didn't LOOK like a relaxed happy camper!

SaddleFitterVA
Apr. 21, 2009, 11:58 AM
PB was definitely HOT in the freestyle, and to me, Anky looked very tight/stiff/holding during much of the freestyle, but really, on that firecracker of a gorgeous horse, I am not shocked.

I still enjoyed watching it, and enjoyed watching Anky ride. She is a master of the freestyle. And, it is good to see her execute it so well.

PB is a gorgeous horse. I was glad she went as I had never seen her ride in person.

claire
Apr. 21, 2009, 11:59 AM
Claire, I wish you could have gone. We sat with Aunt Esther! :lol:

I wish I could have too! The live streaming was great...just not the same excitement. :sigh:

And FWIW, I am so glad in the end Anky didn't listen to her
"better half" :lol: and showed her true colors and gave such a balls out ride with PB! That to me is "horse sport"!

So, on to more important gossip: What did Aunt Esther think of Haazan's Bling? What about those pink striped breeches?

And the shopping? Hmm. I think that deserves it's own thread.

Coreene
Apr. 21, 2009, 12:12 PM
Aunt Esther stocked up at Hermes. I wanted the orange Hermes pad, she talked me out of it and then the bitch turned right around and bought it herself. And the white one as well! Drank copious amounts of Champagne in the VIP tent, tagged along with us to the Rolex party, cadged a free watch - you know, typical AE. She knows everyone.

Ambrey
Apr. 21, 2009, 12:16 PM
PB was definitely HOT in the freestyle, and to me, Anky looked very tight/stiff/holding during much of the freestyle, but really, on that firecracker of a gorgeous horse, I am not shocked.


He is gorgeous, isn't he? I could see what she was saying about him being kind of distractable, but what he did well he just looked SO good doing!

ButterflyIris
Apr. 21, 2009, 01:02 PM
Did the Dutch team ship over the horse that they rode in the awards ceremony?

It was a Painted Black look-alike, well by saying that I meant that he was black! Hans Peter and Anky both rode him in the awards ceremony.

Is that a new thing for the Dutch team to bring or borrow an award ceremony horse?

And I am not trying to start some drama about Anky with this post. I was just curious about the thought process behind the award ceremony mount and if the Dutch team was incurring the cost of shipping or borrowing that horse?

I think Anky looked as happy as anyone else there. She was smiling and waving during the warm-up. I found nothing about her behavior during the actual competition to resemble behavior associated with poor sportsmanship.

atr
Apr. 21, 2009, 01:36 PM
The horse Anky rode in the awards ceremony was a local, Las Vegas horse.

bort84
Apr. 21, 2009, 01:59 PM
The horse Anky rode in the awards ceremony was a local, Las Vegas horse.

Really? She didn't ride PB in the awards ceremony? (I didn't see the awards ceremony so would have no idea) That seems so crazy to me... I don't think I've ever heard of that. Did they just decide that PB was too hot for the ceremony?

Weird.

Arizona DQ
Apr. 21, 2009, 02:04 PM
The horse Anky rode in the awards ceremony was a local, Las Vegas horse.


Forgive me for being naive, but is that a normal thing ? To ride a different horse in the awards ceremony? I sat at the far end of the arena and did not notice that it was not PB.

Paris
Apr. 21, 2009, 02:31 PM
but then again.. he never has. I thought this year might be special and he would do it.

ESG
Apr. 21, 2009, 02:43 PM
Forgive me for being naive, but is that a normal thing ? To ride a different horse in the awards ceremony? I sat at the far end of the arena and did not notice that it was not PB.

Quite common.


but then again.. he never has. I thought this year might be special and he would do it.

Actually, it was Shutterfly in the awards ceremony this year. When Meredith won in 2005, she rode husband Marcus's horse in the ceremonies, since Shutterfly is such a spook. When she won the trophy on Sunday, she had to drop it when Shutterfly spooked and took off with her after it was presented. :D She had draw reins on him for all three ceremonies, and needed them, especially considering that her winner's cooler was sitting on top of her saddle, and she was on top of it. Lady's got stones the size of Texas, for sure! :lol:

ridgeback
Apr. 21, 2009, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by freestyle2music
What worries me the most is that when these finals were held in Aachen Isabell would have won, when they were held in Den Bosch Anky would have won, and now because it was Las Vegas Steffen won.

Like Anky stated in an article today : Isabell now knows how I allways felt at Aachen.

Theo>>

Looks like Theo is drinking the kool-aid. I guess in his eyes what Anky said isn't poor sportsmanship but if Isabell says it, it is...Drink up Theo:lol::lol:

ridgeback
Apr. 21, 2009, 03:19 PM
My God can't you read. Anky was the most happy camper at Vegas. No pressure at all. She had nothing to loose. We got to watch hours of videos from "behind the screen" , and knowing her for over 25 years I can tell you that she was having a good time. Don't you think it shows good sportmanship when you help you fellow competitor (Steffen ;) )

The funniest thing I found in all these discussion is the fact that (like me) you all loved the live-comment that Robert Dover gave, but you didn't want to hear what he said about the hobbles in the test of Ravel.

Theo

That first line cracked me up. Theo you are the one that cannot read.

Jenn2674
Apr. 21, 2009, 03:22 PM
The one thing that annoys me to no end about us dressage riders is the whole awards ceremony issue. I love dressage, I think most of this mess is just catty. I don't know why anyone would take issue with someone choosing not to go because they didn't think they would win. That is why they are competing at this level, to WIN! I think some people are more competative than others, I'm sure Anky is one of them. I think some people are more serious than others, I am sure Anky is also one of them. But neither of those things is a character flaw. The world is made up of all kinds. Gosh, if we didn't have ultra committed go getters, we would be stuck in the 17th century!

But I don't get how so many of these amazing dressage riders don't ride their horses in the awards ceremony. I don't get why so many dressage horses get out of control in the awards ceremonies. I know it is different and often scary places for horses but jumpers compete in the exact same venues. I just went to the Charlotte Jumper Classic a week ago and during the Grand Prix awards ceremony, like one horse got a little quick during the victory gallop but not one was dangerous. I know it is just one show but I get the feeling that they never get walked into the warmup or use substitute horses. Are they just so wore out after jumping 3-4 rounds? Are they just ultimately better behaved horses? I've never seen an event awards ceremony? Those are probably the fittest horses on the planet, do they gallop during the awards ceremony?

Perhaps us dressage riders are pansies. I know I don't jump anymore because it scares me. I know I am not a thrill seeker but why is it so difficult to get our horses to stand still during the ceremony and do a couple of passes around the arena? Do we need them to be Parellized?? (JUST KIDDING!!)

kkj
Apr. 21, 2009, 03:43 PM
We had very good seats- right behind Ravels owners. I'll tell you what I thought.

Ashley was a joy with a huge smile on her face the whole time. Her test was very accurate and she does a remarkable job with a horse that frankly was just outclassed. He is the most downhill of any horse out there.

PB is challenged in the twos. I think he messed them up all three times. The music did not fit the horse. You could tell it was a freestyle made for a horse that moved differently. I thought she was plenty gracious about the whole thing.

Satchmo was not as amazing as he was in the Olympics. The disobendience was gone as was some of the brilliance. Between the breaking in the canter and messing up his twos. His half pass was great but not compared to Ravels. I didn't think he was the winner.

Ravel was amazing in his first test and tense in the second. I felt Steffen earned the 9 for rider position in the GP but had to resort to some wide hands, more obvious leg cues in the Freestlye. The trot work in the Freestyle looked amazing, the half passes, the passage half pass etc but his canter work was more tense, the hind legs, the kick out ect. Still he was amazing and I loved the music.

I think Hans Peter and Nadine should have done better. I loved that freestlye. I would have put them above Anky on that test. The horse looked super tense and was ridden tight and behind the vertical in the whole warmup on Weds but I was amazed at how much better they looked on show day. On the freestlye day she was incredible. I loved watching them. She is beautiful in person and I too love the ears. I thought he got robbed a bit.

And for riding other horses in the awards ceremony, a lot of them did that. Anky, Hans Peter, Shutterfly. I also noticed in the jumping that some of the riders would come back into the awards ceromony in draw reins- Ludger. I think it is a pretty electric atmosphere and who wants to get dumped after winning?

The most amazing team of the Whole World Cup had to be Meredith and that freak jumper Shutterfly. This is the third time I have seen him and was more amazed then ever. He is so great when he has a jump to concentrate on and then when the course is over spooks at the simplest thing- a bush, a flower whatever. I wouldn't want to ride him in the awards ceremony either.

kkj
Apr. 21, 2009, 03:50 PM
Quite common.



Actually, it was Shutterfly in the awards ceremony this year. When Meredith won in 2005, she rode husband Marcus's horse in the ceremonies, since Shutterfly is such a spook. When she won the trophy on Sunday, she had to drop it when Shutterfly spooked and took off with her after it was presented. :D She had draw reins on him for all three ceremonies, and needed them, especially considering that her winner's cooler was sitting on top of her saddle, and she was on top of it. Lady's got stones the size of Texas, for sure! :lol:


Are you positive it was Shutterfly. The color looked a little off and the neck looked different. Plus doesn't Shutterfly have one white hind pastern? The awards horse did not. I think it was suppose to look like Shutterfly but it did not. Also the horse that Anky rode was suppose to look like PB- a black horse of similar build. Hans Peter seemed to be the only one who didn't give a rats ass that the horse he rode in the Awards Ceremony looked nothing like Nadine. He came in on a bay gelding and Nadine is a chestnut mare.

bort84
Apr. 21, 2009, 04:34 PM
I guess the awards ceremony thing seems so crazy to me because I grew up riding saddle seat... Saddlebreds get pretty darn hot, but they ALWAYS take a victory lap, haha. And most of them stand quite well for their ribbon/trophy presentation and photos. Granted, at a show like the WC, the awards ceremonies are epic, but even at the nationals and world championships for the breed show horses (ASBs, arabs, etc), seems like the horses tend to get their ribbons safely and the riders stay on top = ) And a lot of them have rose garlands and huge trophies and giant ribbons and 50 million people that want to get in the picture, so they can last for a good bit.

It seems crazy that they can go in the ring with all those people watching and clapping and do an extended walk on a loose rein (dressage, obviously) and then they can't keep their feet on the ground for an awards ceremony. If a silly hot 5-gaited ASB can do it, I feel like a dressage horse trained to GP should be able to do it. I mean, even if you have to let the horse walk around a bit to keep him calm. It just seems very odd to me. But I guess if it's acceptable, why risk it?

Me, I'd bring in a couple of headers if I had to, but if I got an award at the World Cup, you can bet I'd be taking a victory lap/picture on my mount = ) Haha.

And some of those jumpers are certainly a handful, but still... They can jump those scary looking things, so why not be able to stand (or prance around even) next to it? Hahaha.

And this isn't really me judging the riders that use a subsitute horse. It doesn't actually bother me that they didn't ride their WC horses in the ceremony, it just seems very odd to me. But hey, I'm not a WC competitor, so what the heck do I know = )

claire
Apr. 21, 2009, 04:52 PM
No expert here :lol: But, isn't riding your $$$$$$ show horse in the awards ceremony taking a silly chance that they might get hurt?

Maybe, horses being horses, it is what they are familiar with.

At the Maclay medals a horse would calmly walk across a busy NYC street to the competition arena.
Yet, the same horse would absolutely freak out being hacked on a x-c course. :confused:

Plantagenet
Apr. 21, 2009, 05:12 PM
does anyone remember Rembrandt getting hurt in an awards ceremony?

I seem to remember it was pretty serious and he wasn't really the same after, though it's been a long time and my memory is getting fuzzier with menopause...

point being, I'm not sure I'd fault anyone for riding a different horse in the awards ceremony. Is it worth risking injury to a horse that doesn't do well in those circumstances?

bort84
Apr. 21, 2009, 05:25 PM
No expert here :lol: But, isn't riding your $$$$$$ show horse in the awards ceremony taking a silly chance that they might get hurt?

Maybe, horses being horses, it is what they are familiar with.

At the Maclay medals a horse would calmly walk across a busy NYC street to the competition arena.
Yet, the same horse would absolutely freak out being hacked on a x-c course. :confused:

I mean, I obviously get that argument, though I'm not a World Cup rider. But as I said before, it just seems odd. Odd that these horses who can do an extended walk on a loose rein after a highly energized piaffe in a highly energized arena can't make the awards ceremony.

There are always some risks when dealing with horses, and I guess if you know your horse is an absolute nutter in the awards ceremony, then it certainly doesn't make sense to take the risk with a very expensive horse. So I'm not going to think less of someone who chooses not to.

I'm really not trying to be critical here or single out anyone in particular, just saying that it seems a little odd (to me) when horses aren't good for the ceremony. I guess I give the jumpers a smidge more leeway. But I just feel like a dressage horse trained to GP has a very good background to behave through an awards ceremony - so those that aren't good should certainly be the exception, that's all = )

Though, as I recall, Anky did get dumped during one ceremony, so perhaps she's not taking any chances anymore. Fair enough.

Paris
Apr. 21, 2009, 05:44 PM
it was not shutterfly in the award ceremony. no hind sock.. different color bay.

not complaining.. just thought we might see him this year. I completely understand though why they keep him out of the ceremony.

akrogirl
Apr. 21, 2009, 06:59 PM
it was not shutterfly in the award ceremony. no hind sock.. different color bay.

not complaining.. just thought we might see him this year. I completely understand though why they keep him out of the ceremony.


Okay, I can also understand the riders switching out horses for the ceremony but, if they are going to do that anyway, can't they at least use horses that will behave?

ESG
Apr. 21, 2009, 07:33 PM
Are you positive it was Shutterfly. The color looked a little off and the neck looked different. Plus doesn't Shutterfly have one white hind pastern? The awards horse did not. I think it was suppose to look like Shutterfly but it did not.

It was Shutterfly. I was shocked that she was riding him, since he's such a spook.

And actually, Shutterfly has two white hind anklets.

ESG
Apr. 21, 2009, 08:09 PM
Okay, I can also understand the riders switching out horses for the ceremony but, if they are going to do that anyway, can't they at least use horses that will behave?

One would think. That's what's convinced me that it was Shutterfly. He's a notorious spook, so the whole dumping-the-trophy-in-the-dirt thing made sense. It would totally not make sense to have a horse that's just as big a spook as Shutterfly, to "do the honors". ;)

mroades
Apr. 21, 2009, 08:12 PM
yep, it was shutterfly....i dont think it would be easy to match that tall narrow body on a stand -in...lol
We thought it was great when his groom came in, and it made him much happier.
Sorry i didnt get to see anybody...was a whirlwind weekend, yes?

Hazelnut
Apr. 21, 2009, 10:03 PM
While Ashley's test was great, the package didn't have it It Factor that the top four did. That class was placed spot on. We met Madeline Winter Schutze (sp) at the Rolex party before. What a fabulous lady, she has done so much for the sport and Isabel could not have a better sponsor. Too bad there are not 100 of her!

Coreene! We had supper with Madeline Winter Schutze in the Redd Room tent just before the party on Freestyle night. She saw a vacant chair and joined us and stuck up conversation. She was such a fun and interesting woman. So kind and asked questions about us as well as told us so many things about herself. I agree, Isabel Werth IS lucky to have her as a sponsor. You must have loved being at the Rolex Party....

We also sat next to Nadine's owners during the GP and Freestyle. They were great, too. It was all sooo fun!

lauraware
Apr. 22, 2009, 03:59 AM
yep, it was shutterfly....i dont think it would be easy to match that tall narrow body on a stand -in...lol
We thought it was great when his groom came in, and it made him much happier.
Sorry i didnt get to see anybody...was a whirlwind weekend, yes?

The horse that she rode for the award ceremony wasn't Shutterfly. Shutterfly was braided
http://www.chronofhorse.com/index.php?cat=21601043093718&image=4&z_Gallery_ID=1331904092272568

the horse she rode in the presentation wasn't:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/index.php?cat=21601043093718&image=0&z_Gallery_ID=1331904092272568

and i don't think anyone would unbraid a horse for a photo presentation. that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense!

I'm pretty sure the horse she was riding in the presentation was Kaskaya. Jill Humphry rode it in Vegas GP on saturday.

mroades
Apr. 22, 2009, 11:37 AM
ah, that would make sense...i was sitting to high up to see braids...lol and kakskaya would stand in well for shutterfly...<slaps forehead>

Miss T
Apr. 22, 2009, 12:00 PM
In Nancy Jaffer's Day 4 postcard on Equisearch she says Meredith came in for the award "riding a double for Shutterfly who was every bit as nervous as the real thing".
She does not mention which horse it was, however.

canyonoak
Apr. 22, 2009, 12:23 PM
Meredith did not ride Shutterfly in any presentation ceremony.

Several of the other riders in jumpers did not ride their competition horses in any ceremony.
and a few in dressage but they did not have so many extra horses to choose from, ha ha.

kkj
Apr. 22, 2009, 04:19 PM
Thanks. I was pretty sure it was not Shutterfly. I am better at recognizing horses than people and even with the cooler, the head neck and hind leg markings were different. If I remember correctly Shutterfly has a left hind pastern white marking and nothing on the right hind. This horse had dark legs. And I gotta say I think Shutterfly is spookier than that horse.