questions re caring for a rescued underweight horse.

[marta]

friend is picking up a mare tomorrow that's considerably underweight. not much history from the owner, so we're not sure if she's underweight b/c she hasn't been fed enough or if there are teeth/health issues.

so i'm curious how do you approach such cases?
we're thinking vet/dentist and then in a week or maybe two treatment with power pack. how does that sound? is that too soon for a power pack? i'm concerned that if she has a considerable worm load she may experience side effects from worming but the horse has to be wormed at some point.

we plan to keep her in a dry lot and slowly increasing her exposure to grass. also 3 small meals per day of grain.

what else?

[Oakstable]

Everything I have read about rehabbing a rescue is to go slowly.

Use one of the less aggressive dewormers so you don't get a big kill off of parasites.

Use a probiotic.

[lindasp62]

Here is some good information, kind of the standard. But, please contact a vet and get some kind of plan in action ,and what the timeline would be.
http://www.completerider.com/starvedhorse.htm

[enjoytheride]

I would add the grain very slowly and wait several weeks before you worm.

As far as hay I'd pick up "crappy" hay or something that is almost entirely grass. The hay at my barn is hay crack to horses and is incredible quality but it is too rich for starved horses so my BM either buys grass hay or gets a couple bales at the feedstore. They can eat more of it and it isn't rich. Then you can eventually cut in nicer hay and really bulk them up.

[Simkie]

If the horse is truly starved, small amounts of alfalfa regularly is actually what's recommended to prevent Refeeding Syndrome (http://www.starvinghorses.com/Refeedingsyndrome.html).

If the horse is simply thin, there's far less risk.

[Cherry]

I vote for alfalfa since that is what the experts recommend. A horse that is eating alfalfa hay is less likely to colic and in the meantime its electrolyte stores are being replenished--electrolytes are the basis of life! Feeding too many carbohydrates (concentrates) too fast can cause a horse's body to shut down and it will die--once this has happened it's irreversible so I like to err on the side of caution.

Talk with a vet and work out a plan for deworming with him/her before you do it!!!! Horses that are really debilitated are not to be dewormed without a vet's supervision as it can be a shock to the horse's system.

Good luck!

[marta]

i still have not seen her in person, only in photos, but she made the trip to her temporary new home and she's safe. last i heard she was happily munching on a pile of hay (the prior owner sold the hay and a bag of grain to my friend.

vet is coming out this week to take a look at her.
funny thing, prior owner said horse is a bad loader so friends who went to pick her up were ready for a struggle, but it was as if the mare knew this was her ticket out of that hell hole and she practically ran onto the trailer!!!! the prior owner stood in shock saying she's never seen her get on a trailer like that before.
:lol:

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I would feed alfalfa and maybe start mixing in some grass hay eventually.

I don't think I would feed processed grain though. I might start with things such as soaked beet pulp, rice bran, BOSS or flax and maybe some oil with added alfalfa/hay pellets or cubes.

A pre/pro biotic digestive supplement is not a bad idea either.

I would also consult my vet and talk about a plan of action and maybe run some tests for deficiencies if need be.

[Thomas_1]

friend is picking up a mare tomorrow that's considerably underweight. not much history from the owner, so we're not sure if she's underweight b/c she hasn't been fed enough or if there are teeth/health issues.

so i'm curious how do you approach such cases?
we're thinking vet/dentist and then in a week or maybe two treatment with power pack. how does that sound? is that too soon for a power pack? i'm concerned that if she has a considerable worm load she may experience side effects from worming but the horse has to be wormed at some point.

we plan to keep her in a dry lot and slowly increasing her exposure to grass. also 3 small meals per day of grain.

what else? It's absolutely NOT what I'd do.

You need to ensure you get some good experienced help.

Ensure you have a vet lined up to help with evaluation and ideally on the day a neglected horse arrives.

Be prepared to take photos of the condition of the horse the day it arrives. Might be required if there's to be an owner prosecution or in case it's coming to where people might have a clue and see it as their business to be concerned and to report and/or investigate what looks like neglect and poor rations.

Resist the temptation to give him huge meals of high protein feed. Do not expect to see fast weight increase - indeed that isn't want you want at all. You want improvement over time.

A malnourished horse needs constant veterinary care and constant observation, not to mention frequent small feedings. It can take a year to recoup a starved horse.

Standard on the first day a horse would be fed very small portions of hay only and every 4 hours (day and night) and fresh water and nothing else at all.

I personally have always wormed on day 2 - here it would be standard protocol to ensure that worm burden is sorted immediately and so the horse can get nourishment from its food: but you must get a clinical assessment and ensure you're not going to risk a colic. So that is where your vet comes in.

I've found a site which gives basic information which looks similar to my own experience and which is of providing respite care for abused horses coming in from the ILPH.

But I urge you to get a vet first as its important to get clinical assessment.

http://www.equinenet.org/life/feeding2.html

If the horse has been starved then it also needs to be presumed that such as routine teeth and foot maintenance has also been neglected. So be prepared to have dental treatment and farrier lined up and ready.

If you've other horses, then remember to keep this horse in quarantine for 3 weeks and not to handle him before you move to other horses. (Do others first then him and always wash your hands and clothing before you go back to other horses)

[meaty ogre]

I agree with the others who recommended alfalfa if you've got a truly starving horse. I had one not too long ago...look at the blog link below - Dan. Actually I also recommend it for a thin horse too.

The Horse had a good article on bringing back a starving horse. http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13352 It's a 2 part series, I think that's the link the 2nd but you can probably backtrack to the first part. And do be sure to read up on refeeding syndrome too.

Dan had a snotty nose upon arrival, not suprising coming from New Holland, so obviously I started with what seemed like the most serious threats and worked my way down. I'm sure your vet will pull a coggins and run some blood panels anyway, or at least I would want to get those done. Many underweight horses are anemic so an iron supplement can be helpful early on.

We did deworm early on, like on the 2nd day or so, but I think we started with strongid (pyrantel) which is pretty mild amongst the dewormers. Ask your vet. Fenbendazole is relatively mild as well but I'm not sue a power pak is the best thing right away, especially if you don't know the history.

Slow and steady wins the race, but truthfully it doesn't have to take eons to put the weight back on, but it does take money. Dan had some nasty (and costly) dental issues and started out positively emaciated; it took about 3 months to have him where he should have been weight wise. Don't be suprised if the horse doesn't look awful at first (Dan had a beautifully shiny copper penny coat despite being a rack of bones) and his feet weren't bad at all. Within a month his coat looked like absolute crap (remember what you are seeing in the coat/feet is growth from some time ago so it takes time to catch up). A truly starving horse's metabolism may have resorted to burnig protein after all fat stores have been depleted so make sure that you are feeding quality protein to replenish what has been lost. I did start Dan on grain relatively early on but hay is where you want to begin. I used TC senior because it's relatively low NSC but higher on the calorie end of the spectrum.

[FlashGordon]

Thomas gave good advice.

Have your vet pull blood ASAP, which will give you a better indication of the horse's state.

Stick with good quality grass hay to start. See if the horse will do beet pulp.

Add a good probiotic... someone just recommended EquiPride to me for my horse who is about 6 months post-starvation. I had started with SmartDigest.

Go easy on things like protein, fat and sugar to start. Once he horse is stabilized, protein is going to be very important for building muscle and new hoof but go slow.

Depending on what state the horse is in, you may want to start worming but I'd not go as aggressively as a Power Pack on the first round. Maybe start with Strongid, then Equimax. I double dose my wormers, with my vet's blessing, but discuss with your own vet.

I've gotten a little ADD with concentrated feed for my rehab, who is picky about forage and also seems to lose condition when he's getting a lot of fiber... but I'd encourage you to go slowly and not fall into the trap of adding things in an attempt to pack weight on quickly.

[marta]

she's eating the hay that the prior owner was feeding her. we're going to incorporate the new hay into it. but she seems fine with it. she is getting a bit of grain 3 times a day that the prior owner sent up w/ her.
and thomas 1, the vet is coming out at the end of this week and will draw blood and asses.
i don't think she's in as bad of a condition as some of the rescues folks here took in. she's skinny and her feet are overgrown but she's not tragic looking.

thanks again!

[Thomas_1]

If she's underweight and you don't know why then it's really a bad thing to go feeding grain!

[marta]

she's been eating the grain with the prior owner. this is not a sudden change to her diet. we're not giving her 3 lbs of grain at each meal. she gets a little bit 3 times per day. she seems to be eating it well, and doesn't appear to have any problems chewing grain or hay.
i strongly suspect that she was just not given enough hay to get her safely through the winter. these folks had 2 bales of hay and 2 bags of grain when the horse was picked up. why would you have that much more grain than hay????

[SuperSTB]

The fact that you have at least some knowledge of her current feeding- is a good thing. The more info you get the better!

First have the vet, farrier, and possibly the equine dentist lined up.

I try and take pictures of the environment where the horse was rescued from if at all possible. It's establishing a record at the very least. I've gone so far as taking a picture w/ that day's newspaper headlines- but there were reasons far too detailed to outline here.

When horse arrives, take it slow, let her look around but you don't have to lead her around. Use this time to take more condition pictures. Then look her over head to tail including in her mouth. You may want to take pics too. I like to take special attention to the hooves and mouth. Crest necky?, how are the hooves? note the coat condition, see if you see signs of external parasites. Feel the body condition too under matted coat areas.

I also do a smaller worm dose the first day- unless the horse is in real bad condition or super stressed. Never anything too strong or too much. If they have parasite overload you could 'crash' their system if you will.

Fresh water, entice to drink. Might need to sprinkle a wee bit of sugarfree Kool-aid mix. Fresh water is important because I don't want to risk impaction with any feed changes and get them well hydrated.

I like to give a lite mushy mix of chopped forage, handful of grain, probios, and a vit supplement. Chopped forage like Triple Crown brand.

Small meals at frequent intervals for the super skinnies. One poor skinny I had, I fed a small meal every 3 hrs round the clock.

Free choice hay. I do not give free choice alfalfa. If I *think* it's safe for the horse to eat alfalfa I will use it as a supplement. I definetly free choice hay though- timothy preferred but will do orchard mix. Keep in mind the body to food ratios so that you are feeding enough. Sometimes they aren't into eating the hay as much as you would like and you'll need to get that food into them via warm mushy mashes.

Always watch water intake.

Consult with your vet the scheduled appointment on establishing a good feed program. Blood may need to be drawn, etc etc etc.

[chaltagor]

these folks had 2 bales of hay and 2 bags of grain when the horse was picked up. why would you have that much more grain than hay????

I know it was probably rhetorical, but grain is a lot easier to get. Buying hay is a pain if you don't have a truck, plus it takes up a lot more space than the grain. And I'm sure they didn't have a good supplier if they didn't care about the horse so their buying habits must have been spotty. They wouldn't be buying by the truckload, just a piddling few bales every week.

[Thomas_1]

she's been eating the grain with the prior owner. this is not a sudden change to her diet. we're not giving her 3 lbs of grain at each meal. she gets a little bit 3 times per day. she seems to be eating it well, and doesn't appear to have any problems chewing grain or hay.
i strongly suspect that she was just not given enough hay to get her safely through the winter. these folks had 2 bales of hay and 2 bags of grain when the horse was picked up. why would you have that much more grain than hay???? I appreciate that this isn't your horse so I'm not sure why you were actually posting to ask for advice but....... I don't care what the horse was eating previously.

You've told us she's underweight and in poor condition. You've received advice about what to do and that advice is DON'T feed grain. Get the vet and get her wormed and checked clinically and until you know why she's underweight don't feed anything other than hay.

Reason why. You've no idea what the owners fed. NO IDEA.

You don't know why the horse is underweight.

Could be a huge worm infestation
Could be cushing disease
Could be kidney failure
Could be that grain would be bad in some circumstances and indeed contraindicated.

Your merely guessing she's not had sufficient hay, so give her more and get the vet to check her and stop managing by guess work.

[marta]

[edit]

i asked a question just like 99% of other people on this board ask. to get some feedback, ideas, suggestions. whether this is my horse or not my horse has no impact on my right to ask. in fact, this whole thing may be a hypothetical (how is that for a mind [freak]).

just b/c i'm asking for feedback and ideas doesn't mean that i have to listen to you or agree with you. and while i may be seeking feedback does not make me a total nincompoop.

finally, let me reiterate one more time, the vet has been consulted, is aware of the situation and all steps undertaken and will be coming shortly to see the animal. perhaps your veterinary expertise leads you to believe we are contributing to a fast demise of this creature, but apparently there is at least one vet out there in the universe who seems to disagree with you.

and to all others who managed to provide constructive feedback and information without resorting to snarky comments and bullying - thank you!

[Watermark Farm]

Hi,

With a horse like this, I focus on feed first and get them stable. I do a lot of hay pellet mashes since they can eat this well even if teeth are in poor shape. Add probiotics. Free choice hay (grass) if the horse is not totally emaciated. If emaciated, check out the UC Davis refeeding study as a *guide* and talk to your vet. (Keep in mind original Stull study did not use grass hay)

Please don't Powerpac. Once I get them stable, I worm with ivermectin every 3 weeks for a few months. You can kill off strongyles slowly, over time. Doing a powerpac can be dangerous for a horse with a high worm load.

As for teeth, I try to get the horse stable as well before putting them through the sedation, but I DO have the vet come and check the teeth just to be safe. Again, using a lot of mashed feed will help until you can have teeth floated.

Good luck! I am sure you will get a lot of great advice here! Oh, and take lots of photos (weekly), and expect it to take 6-12 months to really see the horse you will end up with. It's a gratifying process. As you said, they seem to know when you are helping and jump into the trailer. The old owner may be overstating what the horse has been given if they are embarassed about the thin horse (it's very common "I've been feeding her 14 flakes a day plus 10 lbs Senior and she's still thin!" when in reality they are NOT), so take anything the old owner has to say with a grain of salt. I can't tell you how many horses I've seen pulled from situations like this ("He's thin because he has cancer!") and in two weeks, they've gained 100 lbs.
~Katie

[Thomas_1]

[edit]

i asked a question just like 99% of other people on this board ask. to get some feedback, ideas, suggestions. whether this is my horse or not my horse has no impact on my right to ask. in fact, this whole thing may be a hypothetical (how is that for a mind [freak]). You did. You asked. You got answers. You went on to demonstrate you totally ignored the answers. I think the %age that do that is way less than 99% Please though don't go taxing your puzzled mind trying to work that or even responding.

Till now I'd not appreciated you were one of those who knew nothing, got answers and then suddenly became a smart ass!

just b/c i'm asking for feedback and ideas doesn't mean that i have to listen to you or agree with you. and while i may be seeking feedback does not make me a total nincompoop. You don't have to listen. You could post saying you don't know how to deal with things and go on to do what the heck you want. Doesn't seem logical to me but then you can please yourself what you do.

and to all others who managed to provide constructive feedback and information without resorting to snarky comments and bullying - thank you Are you a grown up? I'd suggest that anyone who genuinely feels so affected by having someone disagree with them on a bulletin board where there is no physical or fiscal ability to have any effect whatsoever, might need to have a chat with a healthcare professional.